Rob, still grinding that axe:) careful or you will have no blade left sooon.

Ok.. Jesus of NT and God of the OT.. "are they the same"?

YES... without question.

Why then, does the Lord Jesus not manifest the 'judgemental' attitude of the Father with the enemies of Christ, as the Father did to the enemies of Israel.

Lets be very clear. God, did not generalize the idea of 'mass killings' of enemies of Israel. There were some specific incidents where God ordered mass executions/judgement 100% men, women, children, animals. All I can say, is that if you read about the incidents, it might make some more sense. If you read about them, and it does NOT make sense, then there is little I can do for you.

SALVATION HISTORY. For reasons known only to God Himself, there has been a plan of human redemption, which began with the historic people of Israel, and culminated in the coming of Christ Jesus.
While you only see bad things in the Old Testament, I happen so see the same love which is manifest in Christ. I ALSO see the hand of justice and judgement as outlined above. I am on the same page as Paul in trying to put it all together to my own 100% human satisfaction (which of course has been conditioned by MANY diverse ideas and forces) I just say

20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this.

You are trying to wrap eternity up in a little human napkin.. its impossible.

Please don't ask me again about God in the Old Testament and the Jesus of the New.. ask God Himself, while reading Romans 9 VERY carefully... you will come away from that either with a hardened or softened heart.. but the answer is right there..

F.H. I suppose somewhere out there is a cult which cuts off their hand or gouges out their eyes each time they sin..... get me? :)

PS. your_view on Madhi Bray?

F.H. don't forget about Imam Mahdi Bray....k..

I went to the Affinity site.

Interesting. A couple of things I note.

1/ they gave a small donation towards re-building the Church burnt down by ...... (they said 'vandals' but given it was after the Cronulla riots)..well.. u can figure that one out.

2/ They presented food to the Christians.

3/ Did they ACCEPT food from the Christians? :) aah..now that might be a different story eh.

4/ There some strange contradictions.. Churches ? Christians are cursed remember... "Allah's curse be on them"...for believing Christ is the Son of God.. did the Tongan/Auburn Church suddenly put that belief aside?

I can't see the point of 'inter-FAITH' get togethers. I prefer just to be good citizens and if we see a Muslim citizen in trouble, then we help them no matter what and hopefully likewise. But why try to bring the religions together ?
How nice it would be that mosques and Churches never said bad things about followers of another faith.. but is this possible?

Madhi Bray is coming soon (unless my letters to the AFP and Immig have their desired effect) and this man has led demonstrations which call for the slaughter of Jews.. the ICV who sued Danny and Daniel for SAYING that such things will be done by Muslims INVITED the bloke... duh.. It makes you wonder mate.

You see.. no matter how well intentioned you or your friends are, you don't need to worry about us 'hating or harming' you.. we don't/wont -its the likes of Mahdi Bray who are doing the hating of PEOPLE in contrast to say myself who is ranting against the IDEAS in the faith.

Show me Muslims from Affinity who will happily partake of snacks prepared by Christians (no pork) at a Christian gathering, and I'll call that 'progress' :)

BD - "Please don't ask me again about God in the Old Testament and the Jesus of the New" when you stop pretending that it is Ok to judge other faiths (eg Islam) by their scriptures but refuse to have your own judged by it's scriptures I'll stop asking that question. Quite simple.

"While you only see bad things in the Old Testament, I happen so see the same love which is manifest in Christ. I ALSO see the hand of justice and judgement as outlined above." - while you only see bad things in the Quran perhaps muslims see love, justice and judgement.

For the record I don't only see bad things in the OT, it is a mixture just as the Quran appears to be. Muslims can point to verses which paint it in a good light, you and others point out the bad bits. Each sees what they want to see.

I don't really care much what either set of scriptures says, the bit that matters is how people choose to live. Clearly some muslims use their faith as an excuse for wrong doing but I think that the vast majority choose to live peaceful lives (within the constraints of the society they live in). Same for christains, I just get more exposure to their wrongdoers.

What concerns me about your actions is that they may further alienate muslims who feel on the outer anyway. Rather than building bridges you build seige towers. You create and promote the conditions that turn people to extremism.

Your comments about Imam Mahdi Bray are full of irony because the things you accuse him of seem so much like what you appear to be doing.

I don't have much concern about running out of blade, you seem to be determined to keep on feeding material in to grind.

R0bert

Rob.. well.. now that I'm having a break. I can provide you with more grinding material.

Our dialogue would be enhanced if you looked much more closely at what you say. I don't say that out of arrogance, I'll show you what I mean in a second. Me.. yep..I also need to look more closely at some things I report on.. ok..

Lets look at a couple of things you said.

1. "Judging by Scriptures". Rob.. do you see a difference between God ordering the Israelites to exterminate ONE people (in this example) for purposes of specific judgement for what THOSE people had done....
and a general cursing of another faith for its core beliefs for all time? One is a historical event.. a 'once only'.. not a general principle or command to Israel regarding their enemies or our enemies.
You might disagree with Gods order.. or.. consider it nothing more than a human invention to justify a slaughter. Either way, u cannot draw out of this a 'generalized command/principle' for all time.
THAT....is the difference.

2/ "Each (Muslim/Christian) can find good bits and bad bits." in the others faith document. Lets look deeper at this.
I can find such things in the Quran which suggest Christians are closer than anyoneelse(besides Muslims) to Allah. But the weight of evidence/verses is abundantly and unambiguously clear that anyone who 'joins partners' with Allah is condemned eternally. Guess who that means?
In other words.. "close...but no cigar". Sure.. you Christians are 'closer' than the pagans, but you still miss and you are cursed and Allah is going to destroy you anyway.

Now.. here is my problem. "I" ..am a Christian. (no..don't go there :).. and as such, I am the specific named target of wrath both human and divine according to Islamic scriptures and traditions.
This would not bug me if it were not for the unsettling fact that Islam is always directing it's energies to building a STATE, which is based on RELIGIOUS laws, and.. having LIVED under some of those laws, I find this irksome.

Boaz,

“They gave a small donation towards rebuilding a church”…
It’s the meaning not how much Boaz.

“Did they ACCEPT food from the Christians?”
If you know anything about islam as you claim then you should know Muslims are allowed to eat what the ‘people of the book’ eats except from what we were banned from (ie pork, blood, etc..)

“I can't see the point of 'inter-FAITH' get togethers. I prefer just to be good citizens and if we see a Muslim citizen in trouble, then we help them no matter what and hopefully likewise. But why try to bring the religions together?”
You still need a degree of dialogue to understand each other specially when there is fear and hate mongers (like, God forbid, people other than you;) ).

“Madhi Bray”
As I suspected I googled the guy and he is a director of Politics in the NAIA. People have religious views and political opinions. If you want to quote people who blend religion and politics that’s your problem.

“Show me Muslims from Affinity who will happily partake of snacks prepared by Christians (no pork) at a Christian gathering, and I'll call that 'progress' :)”
Regardless of Affinity almost all Muslims I know socialise and eat with people of other religious convictions including myself. That’s a weird statement; you never entertained an Aussie Mossie guest before?

"close...but no cigar"
Why do you need two cigars?
You don’t believe the Quran is God’s word nor Mohammed prophet hood and nobody wants you to. No Muslim I know cares or talks about your faith or asking you to recognise us with a ‘cigar’.
Each has a responsibility to a) investigate and b) take a decision and c) stick with it.
We are comfortable with our cigar, stick with yours

BD, last time I checked your faith made me a target of divine wrath because I do not happen to belong to it. I'll conceed that the NT does not appear to command christains to beat up on non-christains but somehow throughout history christains have found ways to get that meaning out of it anyway. The last book of the NT certainly suggests some wrath in store for those who happen to be living at the time.

There seem to be a number of places where the god of the old testament slaughtered or ordered slaughtered people, the first born of the egyptians, the flood comes to mind (can't get much more general than that).

You duck and weave and look for excuses as to why you don't think the bible has some of the same stuff as the Quran but if you are not looking to defend it your excuses are just that excuses.

R0bert