Whats currant in

thinkings thats on your mind?

Let it rip!

Anything!..

planet3

You set a hard task planet 3 but if we open up all can contribute interesting things.
So lets put out differences away and talk.
I am deeply concerned that middle east and the African continent both in wars may find 2014 is worse than 2013 very much so.

Interesting enough others will think I am being provocative and even lieing eg Shadow Minister, but I see this year by years end a mini revolt against Liberals climate change policy/nonpolicy,s.
And in full truth think the world will too maybe not this year but soon.
We too will find our self,country, in the spotlight over our climate change changes/policy no policy

I would have contributed but my throughts have gone through; now there's a thought!

Raisin nut in but sour grapes from bellicose Belly who is off the planet with his grapes of wrath as usual.

A biblical reference for Belly and ors to set upon. It doesn't take much. ;)

Grapes of wrath
<And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.>
Book of Revelation

A song offering for Belly, for whom six years is going to be a very long time to be talking about his pin-up boy Tony Abbott.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycbgHM1mI0

There's a widespread malignant thought form
that "other people are the problem."
Conservatives tend to blame Labor for our
problems, Labor blames conservatives.
And, almost
everyone blames asylum seekers and/or immigrants.
Some people are convinced homosexuals are the problem,
others think that single mothers are the problem.
Others blame women, still other blame men. And still
others, think the Christian Right is the problem,
and far, far too many people think that Muslims are the
problem. The entire culture has become a hysterical
blame session.

Yet a healthy, vital society is not one in which we
all agree. It's one in which those who disagree can do
so with honour and respect for other people's opinions
and an appreciation of our shared humanity.

I apologise for re-stating what I've posted previously,
however, without personal commitment to the attributes
of fair play and integrity, our country is in grave
danger. Malice and intolerance stalk our society,
staking claim to our minds, and not one corner of ous
social order is unaffected.

Our political conversation must shift away from the mass,
infantile finger-pointing that now pervades it.
It is not the Conservatives or Labor who are ruining this
country. It is the tendency on so many people's parts
to think that their way is the right way and that people
who disagree with them are bad.

We can disagree vehemently yet appropriately. Disagreement
must be respectful, or the disrespect itself poisons
us more than either side's position in the argument ever
could. Many of the things that most of us were brought
up to think "could never happen here," have already begun to
happen - dangerous scapegoating, violent hate crimes,
small-minded intolerance for the views of others.

At what point are symptoms seen as signs of a critical disease?
And at what point do we wake up enough to know that without
treatment this disease will destroy us?

It's more important that we renew dignified and respectul
dialogue with those who do not agree with us than that we
keep slavishly congratulating those who have the wisdom
to see things our way.

My thoughts are with the pending unemployed, every liberal govt; has created a pool of unemployed. It has to do with the implementation of unpopular policies [the govt;s that have policies that is]
I have the feeling 2014 is not going to be one of our best, in terms of prosperity and high unemployment. We have elected a govt; who has no direction. With promises and pledges in blood falling by the wayside with no plan B, i fear we are in for a torrid time to survive the next two and a half years. A govt; that openly calls climate change crap, expects a mere 9% to fix all of businesses problems. That has got to be a failure to say the least. Bearing in mind this govt; in opposition denied business a 1% drop in taxes. We have now annoyed Indonesia and China with just a few misplaced and unthought out words. How can we come out of this mess without a great deal of harm done to us all.

Shucks, sorry Belly and ors, that lusty Dusty Springfield song Wishin' and Hopin' didn't play. Here, trying again with a different link,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c74BSImG4xM

Sorry but if that does not work you will have to hum it. You do hum. LOL

579,
your references re the Liberal Government Policies are weird from where I am standing because here the very far North just about everything has gone to the dogs due the previous Labor Government's policies.
Perhaps Labor is ok for Urbania but it's totally hopeless in the Bush.

I'm worried about the kill sharks policy the government has initiated here in the South West of WA.

Not because I like great white sharks, but because of the trouble all the protesters bring with them. They will be constructing the shark 'fence' at 2 beaches I sometimes frequent.

I always wonder if these people actually have a job, other than ranting and raving about saving a few big man-eating sharks that swim too close to human swimmers.

579, it was the belief of the founder of the Liberal Party 'Pig Iron' Bob Menzies, got that tag for his support of Japan pre war, that Australia should have a pool of 10% unemployed, keep wage demands down, and unions under control. So what's new. Abbotts hero is Howard, Howard hero was Menzies, it says it all.
In July 1938 Menzies as a government minister spent 4 days in Nazi Germany. On his return he extolled the virtues of the German system under Hitler. So you can get an idea of the "Thoughts of the fuhrer Menzies". In 2014 Abbott should make a state visit to North Korea, there because Germany has changed a little since 1938, too democratic these days for Abbott, and get a few more North Korean ideas on how to run Australia.

Paul1405,
I really think that instead of concentrating on giving us little histery lessons which btw most of us are already aware of, you should focus on cultivating logic & perhaps thrw in a little common sense as well. You'd be surprised at the outcome.

The conservatives tend not to like history as it shows them up for what there are.
As Bazel Fawlty famously said;
"Listen, don't mention the war! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right. So! It's all forgotten now, and let's hear no more about it. So, that's two egg mayonnaise, a prawn Goebbels, a Hermann Goering, and four Colditz salads." LOL

Maybe GY should take action.
If it is his will I will fold my tent and leave-forever.
Yes I understand the truth in Foxy,s post.
And know I am combative in responding, even sometimes guilty of being over the top in comments about fools.
I too increasingly understand folk leave here forever, because of other commentators and yes because of me.
Maybe I add color? not my intention I just present the real me here.
OTB has problems, maybe he is hen pecked and can only be free here.
He ignores my request that we do not talk, gee only one past poster was ruder.
That was a poor woman who bought a troll here to insult for her.
What will me continuing to ask for space from OTB do, other than turn the volume up as he gets more lost?
We can not harnes free speech and we can not avoid being who we are, we should not have to.
OTB know age or not you would never dare taunt me so in real life, it is my habit to first walk away, even second time, but your crude and rude stuff assures me you are far less a man than you think.
I intend to have a spell from OLO that hopefully will aid OTB and as is his posting style transfer his cowardly rudeness to others.
Back in a while my fellow posters.
Remember walk away once twice, but not a third time.

Dear Belly,

It sounds like you need a break from this forum.
Take it and relax and try to remember that this
is afterall only an opinion forum - and you can always
scroll past and not bother reading certain posts.

It would be a loss to have you leave permanently.
We need people with your integrity here.

BTW: I've just recently become interested in which
of our Prime Ministers and politicians belong to
the Freemasons? Was Robert Menzies a Freemason? And is
John Howard one?

"dangerous scapegoating, violent hate crimes,
small-minded intolerance for the views of others."
Foxy, sounds like the forum is turning into something like Federal Parliament.
Belly, as the most level headed, non confronting poster on the forum, me not you! I can honestly say, nothing you have ever posted has upset or insulted me in the slightest.
You would be surprised by the amount of fan mail I receive from my fellow Forumites, simply astounding, particularly the conservative bunch, they love me, it must be my charisma, or after shave. I do think they hang onto every word I post, for posterity's sake of course. Well, that enough about me, lets write something nice about you. hummmm, nice day. LOL
Just joking, stick with it mate, not serious here, all a bit of a razz. Not worth upsetting yourself

Hi Belly,

You won’t leave OLO, you can’t. There are so many of your beliefs being dismantled by the government you will have to vent your spleen.

Like the rest of your ideological progressives, well at least their skirmish troops (useful idiots), you are transfixed by events, you are addicted to them.

About now, there is a realization that the last election was lost, the dawning of the fact that your single threaded mantra is gaining no traction whatsoever.

This will be followed by the lightening flash of thought that just before the election in 2016, Tony Abbott will stand before us and ask, anyone for more boat people? A CO2 Tax anyone? How about Debt and deficit? OK, an Education revolution then? What about some good old Socio-political warfare? Surely some Divisive Policies? Would you like more trade union corruption perhaps? or disproportionate minority social policies from progressives, we like those don’t we?

It was the narrow ideological rhetoric that contributed to the majority Australians being so over it, that they voted out the ALP/Green anomaly.

So please Belly, promise me you and your fellow travelers will keep up the good work, pursue that which is contrary to self interest and help people like me to keep the ALP/Greens out of office for as long as possible.

Foxy admitted recently that she had never heard of 'Progressives'.

Belly was also shocked at how many 'Labor' leaders assert that they are in fact 'Progressives', and weave the word 'Progressive' into their language everywhere. It is 'Nudge, nudge, say no more' and 'A nod is as good as a wink to a blind man' to the International Socialists aka Fabian Socialists aka Marxists.

Any wonder the political 'Progressives' concentrate on their goals of State control and not democracy, censorship not freedom of speech, and the 'diversity we have to have' that wipes out any vestige of our roots, traditions, culture and anything that could separate us from the International Socialists' ideal of State control at world level.

Few people would not learn to despise the 'Progressives' aka Fabian Socialists aka International Socialists for their agenda the more they learned about them.

The question inevitably arises though, why wouldn't Foxy, Belly and several ors -who have been arm-linked and in lock-step on this site for years apparently- have not realised until recently when told on this forum, the proved existence of a strong 'Progressive' aka Fabian Socialist influence in Labor? After supporting Labor for years you would reckon they would know what they were voting for. But no, apparently. :(

Dear Paul and Spindoc,

I love your sense of humour and dry wit.

Both of you keep up the good work.

I agree with you Paul, it is best not to take
any of this too seriously - it is all a bit of a razz.
But well worth the entertainment value - especially
at dinner parties - where people are astounded by some
of the examples I give them. They had no idea that
such neaderthals still exist and expect to be taken
seriously. :-)

Really I think that I like the Black Corinth variety the best.

MY..THOUGHTS..ARE FOR MYSELF TO FIGURE OUT[PLEASE EXCUSE CAPS]..AT WHIM THEY WILL CHANGE/ITS PART OF THE LATEST THOUGHT DISTRACTION..THAT SEES MY FINAL COMPUTER UNABLE TO TYPE..[IM TYpING NOW VIA A KEYBOARD I ADAPTED TO ACCESS THE LAPTOP.]..but if your on target/you become the target of the flack..ANYHOW...HERE ARE SOME EARLIER..'THOUGHTS'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csbzgoYlU_c&feature=youtu.be http://topinfopost.com/2014/01/04/michael-savage-seal-team-6-was-assassinated-executed SEAL Team 6 was assassinated, executed

savage1

Michael Savage

In the opening hour of his inaugural East Coast drive-time show, Michael Savage signaled he has no intention of abandoning his passion for uncovering the full story behind the deaths of 22 members of Navy SEAL Team 6 in Afghanistan shortly after it was leaked that their unit killed Osama bin Laden.

The subject came up for a second time in the show when a regular listener said she liked the fact that he covered subjects no one else on talk-radio seemed to be talking about.

“They were killed. They were assassinated. They were executed. Or it was done because there’s a moron working inside the Defense Department who did it to them,” Savage said.

“Either way, somebody should go to prison for this.”
[instead their flunkies get oug banned..so be it]

Savage called the August 2011 Taliban shootdown of the CH-47D Chinook helicopter that killed all 38 passengers “one of the greatest military scandals in American history.”

“How could we lose more men in one mission than in the entire history of the Navy SEALS, and no one has been held accountable for it?” he asked.

Savage had further questions:

“Who put them in an old slow-flying helicopter in a combat zone?”

“Why didn’t they break them up into fast-strike helicopters?”

“Who made this decision in the Defense Department?

“Who made it in the Obama administration?”

“These are questions, man, and I want them answered, and I want a hearing; and you want to hear equality, you want to hear fairness?

How about fairness to the families whose hearts are broken
[by somebody in the Obama administration..who killed those Navy SEALs? Would that be equality?”..OR COVERUP[see binlarden dead link]

ITS NOT NEWS..THEY ALL DIED?
[yes it is unthinkable...

continues

In July, as WND reported, the father of one of the SEALs told Savage in a radio interview he believed the U.S. government sent his son and his colleagues to their deaths.

After Vice President Joe Biden revealed that SEAL Team 6 carried out the operation that killed Osama bin Laden in May 2011, Strange said the members of his son’s team gave startling indications to their families they were about to meet their demise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Vq39xQojI9k http://topinfopost.com/2013/06/21/over-20-seals-who-killed-osama-bin-laden-now-dead http://topinfopost.com/2013/05/06/osama-bin-laden-died-of-natural-causes-according-to-former-cia-agent http://topinfopost.com/2014/01/06/dick-cheney-says-osama-bin-laden-not-behind-911

THEN..THEY HAVE THE NERVE TO ATTACK..THE RESQUE GUYS

http://topinfopost.com/2014/01/07/911-fraud-case-accuses-retired-new-york-cops-firefighters http://topinfopost.com/2013/09/08/911-operation-gladio-e23

THIS RELATES TO THE SNOWDEN/POPE THREAD
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/01/22134100-mysterious-calif-crop-circle-plowed-over?lite&lite=obnetwork
http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/131230-crop-circles-hmed-729p.photoblog600.jpg

the lamb island thread explaINS THIS
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/06/22200995-confirmed-crop-circle-caused-by-a-tech-company?lite

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/nbcbayarea http://static.infowars.com/politicalsidebarimage/jump_large.jpg

thIS LINK..LED TO THIS GUY
http://topinfopost.com/2014/01/07/russell-brand-exposes-the-truth-everything-is-energy-frequency-vibration-consciousness

http://www.drschoon.com
http://libertymastermind.us/
The beginning phase of the economic collapse is over. The collapse is next. It will end in the bankruptcy of the US and all nations; and, as Bucky Fuller said, their collapse will make possible a world of peace, cooperation and abundance. This episode airs February 2014. Come meet Darryl Robert Schoon and 14 other influential thinkers at the Liberty Mastermind Symposium on February 21-22, 2014 in Las Vegas.
Read more at http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-beginning-phase-of-the-economic-collapse-is-over-the-collapse-is-next-it-will-end-in-the-bankruptcy-of-the-us-and-all-nations-their-collapse-will-make-possible-a-world-of-peace-cooperation-and/#rE9V17yCUx27mkwh.99

then we went into GLOBAL SCAM[WARMING COOLING/FRAUD
[NOT THE Electro link=carbon credit]

http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/polar-vortex-can-be-used-for-almost-any-climate-scam/
T http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRw5hA3DC_M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmPSUMBrJoI&feature=player_embedded http://tomatobubble.com/global_warming_hoax.html http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/LECTRO/lectro.php http://investmentwatchblog.com/rbs-pays-600-million-for-manpulating-interest-rates-but-big-banks-are-manipulating-every-market-to-the-tune-of-trillions-of-dollars/ .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtevF4B4RtQ http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/climategate.php http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-methods-of-control-if-you-dont-understand-them-you-cant-fight-them/

ANYhow..iM doing a BELLY
[I TOO..AM OVer FIGHTing..any more]

BUT FIRST
Next..What Was In Building 7?
http://www.sriexpress.com/articles/item/720-military-interventions-are-ordered-by-corporates-not-politicians-governments.html .
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/01/09/40-of-americans-believe-that-cold-is-caused-by-heat/
Built in 1985, it was formerly the headquarters of the junk-bond firm Drexel Burnham Lambert, which contributed to the Savings and Loans collapse, prompting the $500-billion taxpayer-underwritten bailout of the latter 1980s. At the time of its destruction, it exclusively housed government agencies and financial institutions.

It contained offices of the IRS, Secret Service, and SEC.

http://911blogger.com/news/2010-07-12/nist-denies-access-wtc-collapse-data investigation of the technical causes of the collapse of the World Trade Center Towers and World Trade Center Building 7 on September 11,2001, might jeopardize public safety. Therefore, NIST shall not release the following information:
.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/09/denialist-harassment-of-climate-scientists-needs-to-stop
Yeah, releasing how WTC-7 fell will "jeopardize public safety" because the last thing we need to do is let architects and engineers figure out how to make the buildings more collapse proof!
The core of the Scientific Method is reproducibility. That is, a scientist publishes a paper making a claim, then any other scientist can perform the same experiment or the same analysis on the raw data and come up with the identical results. But it has become a common feature among the promoters of human-caused global warming not to provide the raw data and to demand the public accept their conclusions on faith. Indeed when Hadley CRU was finally compelled to provide the raw data so that others could check on their analysis, Hadley claimed the raw data had been deleted due to a lack of storage space (this in the day of $100 terabyte short-pocket drives).

As the leaked Climategate emails and software proved, there was indeed deception going on inside all the various institutions who were receiving generous funding to "prove" that human-caused global warming was real. And since all these various institutions were operating primarily with public research funds, all the material connected to that research is also public.

it is clear that something is wrong with the claim that human activity is warming the Earth and that we should all be taxed in atonement. There is ample cause to suspect a monumental hoax has been played on us all, failing miserably because Mother Nature (actually the sun) made an unexpected U-turn that sent their best laid plans gang aft agAIN!

http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-sp-is-following-a-purely-speculative-up-trend-because-the-only-reason-its-moving-up-is-cheap-money-printing-by-the-fed-this-will-soon-come-to-an-end-and-the-market-will-rightly-crash-40-50/ http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/08/10/255432/us-police-now-israelidhs-trained/

ANYHOW..IM Over the lot of it
too many are biased and paid to blog..anyhow going going

gone

Dear Foxy,

I does not surprise anyone that your dinner party friends agree with you. Progressives are “self referential”, one of their main characteristics. So why would they invite anyone round for dinner that might reference opinion outside their network?

Putting the “Neanderthal” tag on those with whom you disagree is simply recognition of the fact that you are indeed a progressive. Trying to reinforce your fear of opposing perspectives by passing them around your dinner table for endorsement is not something to be proud of.

There is nothing more intellectually crippling that sharing dinner with those who already share your views. How absolutely awful spending time with like minded progressives, nothing to contribute except agreement, Yuck!

Progressives do not have the capacity for critical thinking, why bother when it is so easy to just adopt someone else’s opinion

Foxy,

LOL

It is amusing that you said you admitted ignorance of the 'Progressives' until recently when finally told.

Honestly, what were you thinking, supporting the wolves in sheep's clothing without ever knowing?

The 'Progressives' have let their success go to their heads though, arrogantly using 'progressive' frequently when referring to their social policy in particular.

Dear spindoc,

I pride myself on my dinner-parties and
I wouldn't dream of inviting only people with
"like-minded" views and or only "kindred spirits."
I love nothing more than a challenge and robust
discussions. My dinner-parties would be extremely
boring if we all agreed. And I can assure you they're
not.

As for my using the term "neanderthal" - that's a
term that I apply not to people who have different
views to mine but to people who aren't capable of
reasoned, intelligent argument. Who don't argue in
a logical manner and continue to make unreasonable
generalisations every time. They're people who are
stuck in a rut, dogmatic, pig-headed, obstinate,
and abusive. They're people I chose to simply ignore
and scroll past their posts.

I'm sure that those sort of people you wouldn't invite
to your dinner parties either. And I definitely would
not dream of labelling you a "progressive." :-)

Cheers.

BELLY...

What are you doing there old mate ? As you're well aware, we've all got our critics, some of 'em have good reasons to be critical, others not so good. BELLY, you've also implored me on enough occasions, with any censure, to just simply ignore it and move on.

Although you and I couldn't be further apart with our political tenets, we still tolerate each other's philosophically position on politics. Moreover, we often agree on most other issues, which at the end of the day, matter even less generally ! :-)

Graham YOUNG has kindly provided us all with this fantastic Forum which allows you and I, and many others in the community to ventilate our opinions and views. Without it, we the ordinary person in the street, would NOT have such a vehicle in which to do so ?

Thus BELLY, just enjoy it. Please don't take any of this stuff to heart. You have many many, friends and admirers. And yes, a few detractors too. So please just stay on and 'suck it up' as they say, and move on !

I thought the post suggested, in looking for some other new pathways into the future, and I wasn’t disappointed. Fear is one of greatest focal points of our time, and within it, shows our true capabilities of we can do, without being so critical on one another. While the human race is facing its demons very well, I might add, so the confidence you show, will reflect . Life is a task, that for 100,s of millions of years, and all life has tried its hardest to become the forms, that we see each and very day. In my understandings, which is a lot, I can only ask with-in our space to think, and only then will the sun will come up with greater thoughts than we have now.
and how many times have we heard it.
I can sit here and tell you all where your going, but you can’t leed a horse to water and make it drink, but can teach it to think.

Belly…Harden up son….you know humans just as well as I do…..its a brave new world coming, I hope your ready for it…….and when I said LET IT RIP, I didn’t mean have a civil war. I for one have no animosity against you or anyone else for that matter, but some sure know how to teach bullyism….good luck with that….Now whats on my mind….well….the whole world knows whats on my mind and that’s with being true and honest, to the bone……Oh foxy….put down you’re your book for now:)…

So the 21th century frightens you……foxy, in a new world…don’t worry, the human race has been working it out long before you where born..I think that’s what’s really on your mind.

The words….” Iam over it”…..Think about this…get out of your brain cavity once in a while and better yourselves…..it doesn’t hurt, I was told:)
A bit cheeky,iam some times, but one hell of a true Australian.

So whats really on your minds?....Boat people...there on my mind constantly, taxes are to high,....and Ive heard some good one,s so far...what else?

Planet3……

I thought while your having a great afternoon...this song is what,s on my mind just thinking of you:)...enjoy.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jAHTKViJQQ

and we will do it together.

planet3

Heres a better version.

And members...all respect.....and you cant go wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMz-OA_V4d8

now back to the topic.

Planet3

Dear Planet3,

If you're happy and you know it -
Share your meds! ;-)

Foxy lol.

Next:)

Planet3

Yes foxy, I do need some sort of medial help...:-/...can you help:) I might just be hanging my self..your thoughts:)

planet3

PLANET3,

What happened? I am interested to know. Maybe too there is something that can be done. Need to hear your story though.

You have the floor. Please go ahead.

Dear Planet3,

Get a prescription to live at the Playboy Mansion
for a while.;-)

< I really think that instead of concentrating on giving us little histery lessons >

LOL! Good one Indy. Can I adopt it? Great play on words old son :~)

My thoughts are simple...Are all the criminals in the public arena or could there be many more dangerous villains within our government?

Dear Chris,

Dangerous villains within our government?

How can you suggest such a thing? Afterall -
They won by a landslide - so what does that
say about us?

so what does that say about us?
Foxy,
It says everything about you et al that we're saying here constantly. The criminals are the ALP supporting Public Servants who sabotage the Government that keeps them for some criminally inexplicable reason..

Dear Indy,

You can't just finger-point to only one
side of politics. That's not rational or
logical. There are all kinds of
people - good and bad, that belong to both major parties
and should be held accoutnable. To only accuse one
side of politics simply indicates your own biases.
And is not a credible or intelligent argument.
Try again.

Oh God1 Give us back our guns.

Dear Chris,

Try dynamite - it's more dramatic!

[Deleted. Excessive use of capitals.]

OUG,

Guns do bring peace and the thought of a world without them is unthinkable.

Try dynamite - it's more dramatic!
Foxy,
For heaven's sake NO ! We need to bury crap not splatter it all around ?

Dear Indy,

It seems that the current government
totally agrees with you! ;-)

Talking about dangerous governments, I wonder when the Royal Commission into the Home Insulation Program re-convenes from the Xmas break?

Report due end June 2014.

< Talking about dangerous governments >

"I've never even been spoken to by the police, but now I am probably going to lose my job? It makes no sense to me

Anyone who has declared their membership to a proscribed club, through words or action, sought to have been a member, or attended one or more meetings or gatherings of people who are members or associates, is in danger of losing their electrical licence or not having it renewed.

---
No licence means no job!

Seems the Sieg Heil brigade is back in full swing.
I guess I'll wear my yellow star with pride!

There are all kinds of people - good and bad,
Foxy,
I am aware of that but you seem to be oblivious to the fact that the majority of bad, bad as in incompetent & selfish are found in the Labor Party.

Dear Indy,

On the contrary - facts are things I have to deal
with on a daily basis. They're not something I
could be oblivious to, even if I wanted to be.
However, what you're talking about is the fact
that people tend to see things, whether it's -
political parties, asylum seekers, or whatever,
from a viewpoint of subjectivity. That is an
interpretation based on personal values, and
experiences. Our views are shaped by our
past experience, our background, out training,
our education, and so on. And of course inevitably
all of us will be guilty of some measure of bias -
the tendency, often unconscious, to interpret
things according to our own values.

My experience, background, training, education,
and even values, are obviously very different to yours.

Cheers.

It's hot.

That citrus syrup cake at the coffee shop this morning was great.

It's very hot. The meat ants in the garden have gone mad, but there's no rain forecast.

The phone's playing up ... again. The NBN cable was laid along the highway outside my house over a year ago, but the town's not even on the list for connection before 2019. Damn. Will I still be here then (literally and metaphorically)? Still, technical problems have their bright side - last time I had an interesting conversation with a tech support person in Cape Town, South Africa.

It's very, very hot. 39 today and tomorrow, 41 Monday, 43 Tuesday and Wednesday.

Watched SBS Persons of Interest. Maybe I should check whether ASIO has a file on me from the time I gate-crashed that party for friends of the USSR on the Russian whaler docked in Melbourne in 1966? First time I tasted caviar or drank vodka.

It's very, very, very hot. Every now and then I go outside to check for the smell of smoke.

Why do so any OLO posters reduce everything to left wing/right wing?

Prediction: Someone will use this post to jump to conclusions that I'm
a) a warmist
b) a vegetarian
c) a supporter of Labor because I want a decent phone connection
d) a member of the left wing loony Fabians (or a sleeper communist - tho' that's so last century!)
e) a member of the local bush fire brigade

Best wishes to all for 2014. I'll come back when the conversation moves beyond the usual political footballs.

Dear Cossomby,

Thank You for your thoughts.

I've been tempted to leave this forum so many
times.
Perhaps we should all take a break like Belly
has done recently. It might make us realise
that there are other important issues we can
discuss aside from finger-pointing politics.

Hello there COSSOMBY...

I wouldn't have thought anyone of us would be of sufficient interest for ASIO to concern themselves with. Half of them at least, would be tasked with keeping within the Attorney General's annual budget. Another 25% would be on, either Recreation or Sick leave. A proportion would be merrily luxuriating away on Long Service Leave or Leave without pay. And, I suppose the final quarter, would be engaged with pursuing shadows, through the gloomy, deserted corridors and galleries of Parliament House and it's curtilages. Particularly as it's members are away on the summer break.

Most are heartily sick of gathering Intel. on disaffected members of the Armed Services and the AFP. Many of whom are (allegedly) whinging of low morale, and a seemingly rudderless Command structure ?

No COSSOMBY, neither ASIO or ASIS for that matter have any interest in us. Though, I'm not entirely sure about the 'Defence Intelligence Signal Directorate', at Russell Hill Emmm ? Anyway, we of the solitary and voiceless set, that daily converge on Graham Young's OLO and Forum, in order that we can vent our opinions, express our concerns and ventilate our needs ? None of us are of any importance to ASIO and through them, our illustrious political Masters.

I think that I also like sultanas.

O sung wu...

The point about the ASIO files is that they encompassed all kinds of ordinary people - I can think of other reasons why I might have been picked up, the university I went to in the 60s, friends who were in politics at the time of the moratoria (one had his student digs raided by the police), why, Albert Langer tried to recruit me to the Labor party (unsuccessfully) and there would definitely be a file on him, and possible anyone who crossed his path.

Actually, writing the previous post, I realised that there have been some real changes. I visited the Russian whaler as a science student to meet the scientists on board and look at the lab (then a few of us didn't leave when we were meant to, hung around for the 'friends of..' party and ended up drinking with the crew). It's a good thing I'm anonymous, because visiting a whaler for 'scientific' reasons would be considered really evil these days, much worse than being a fellow-traveller.

RawMustard,
"If the cap fits wear it"
Association equals consorting and consorting is a crime.
If you lose your license it is your own fault.
You can always seek asylum in New Zealand.

What an illuminating Topic this is ? Seems some or most find it a vehicle in which to bear their soul. I think FOXY's quite right, there's far too much time and energy expended on politics and allied matters, rather than initiating some more fundamental topics that are coalescence in nature, a far more interesting option, aside from the usual dreary politics and it's ilk ?

CHRISGAFF1000 I wasn't aware the Consorting Act had been resurrected once more, in NSW ? An excellent piece of legislation that helped to regurgitate and then move along, some of our more colourful clients, by denying them a place to assemble. Just the ticket for these OMG ! When challenged, most would bung-on this pugnacious belligerency, and you'd then have sufficiency to lock 'em all up !

Foxy,
Of course we see things from different perspectives. I see a lot of Taxpayers money squandered whereas you seem to see not enough being spent.
How do I know that you may ask ? You keep defending the ALP that's a dead giveaway.

o song woe/quote..<<..and you'd then have sufficiency to lock 'em all up !>>

the laws of con-venience?
by whaT RIGHT..[QUE WARRENTO]..has the govt/policy policing force..to pervert god given rights of free association..with equals[peers?]..WHERE/by whos authority ?

One of my worries is the erosion of civil liberties in our society, and the ready acceptance by some that it is necessary for the good of the majority. Attacks on personal freedoms and human rights in the name of such things as the necessity to maintain "law and order" the need for "punishment" has been building in Western societies for some time now. Australia as it lunges to the right under the Abbott federal government, and compliant conservative State governments, is in such danger.
The evidence is all around, with secrecy in government, the introduction of new sweeping laws to "protect society" from the perceived villains. The attempt to control education by the conservatives, with their political interference, is another sinister act to remove the rights of the ordinary person, "educate them my way and they will be compliant in the future." No one disputes the need to protect society from the criminal, but there is fine line between protection and control.

Personal freedom is not a freedom to do as one pleases because we would then be offended if others exercised their freedom on us.
Personal freedom must not be viewed as a privilege , it must be viewed as a reward.

Dear Paul,

I'll repeat what I've stated in the past.
Access to information is one of the pre-requisites
for Democracy. A democracy requires its citizens
to make informed choices. If citizens and their
representatives are denied access to the
information they need to make these choices, or if
they are given false or misleading information, the
democratic process becomes a sham. It's therefore
important that the media not be censored, that
citizens have the right of free speech, and that
public officials tell the truth - and are accountable
and transparent. When politicians and political
parties conceal information from, or lie to
Parliament and the public, their actions are contrary
to democratic values and damage public faith in
our political institutions. Under such circumstances
the people can't use their rights in a meaningful
way. It is a concern therefore the lack of transparency
in the current government. As is their control of the
military in their - "sovereign borders," strategy.

cont'd ...

The Australian Defence Force should raise concerns
that having a military officer (Major -General Angus
Campbell) answer directly as a Commander to a
civilian - (the Immigration Minister, Scott Morrison),
could breach the Defence Act and the Westminster Convention
of separating military command from civil control of
the military.

Paul,
You said, "One of my worries is the erosion of civil liberties in our society, and the ready acceptance by some that it is necessary for the good of the majority"

Coming from a Green that has to be the most hypocritical statement ever. The greens have done more to take away our liberties than all other groups combined.

Christ! you cannot cut down a tree, collect roadside firewood, shoot or fish without a licence, build what you want on your land, dig a dam, carry out hazard reduction, ride a bike without a helmet, must wear a seatbelt in a car, smoke in the open, and any number of other regulations by councils and governments. Mostly for 'enviromental' reasons.

You greens claim humans damage the environment but you advocate an open door policy for people to come here illegally.

Greens have been at the forefront in implementing most of the regulations that curtail our freedoms and you have the hide to say you are concerned about the erosion of our liberties.

You could not lie straight in bed.

You could not lie straight in bed.
Banjo,
that doesn't pose a problem for those lacking all that makes sense & is decent. They don't care about others who in actual fact are keeping the aforementioned.

Foxy,

Under the Westminster system the Military are always answerable to civilians.

Dear Is Mise,

Under the Westminster System there is a
Separation of Powers. A civilian does not
command the military.

Foxy
My understanding of the separation of powers is this: Legislative, Executive and Judicial. The executive power (ie implementing the laws, running the country through Ministers, Government departments etc.) is ultimately exercised by the Queen through the Governor-General, who is the commander in chief of the military; in practice by the Minister of Defence. So the military is answerable to a civilian, indeed the highest civilian.

As usual the reality is always more complicated see http://www.gg.gov.au/about-governor-general/governor-general-commander-chief

Dear Cossomby,

Thanks for that. However, Scott Morrison certainly does not
qualify.

Foxy,

I didn't say that a clvlian commanded the Military but that the Military is answerable to a civilian, there is a difference.

Foxy,

Weren't Ms Julia Whatshername (as PM) and Ms Quentin Bryce (as GG) in control of the defence forces? As many migrants who fled the sort of Left totalitarian regimes that you seem to prefer would inform you, it is essential to freedom and democracy that the military be controlled by elected civilians and especially the military's budget.

Consider France where a Foreign Legion with too much independence from civilian control is alleged to have plotted to assassinate its president.

The problem with those way-out 'independent' sites you get that tripe from, Foxy is that they are not subject to the scrutiny and the checks and balances of mainstream news outlets.

Typically you will now 'broken record', compounding your original errors of fact and judgement, and scolding anyone who kindly endeavours to help you see your own blind spot. You are a 'librarian' you assert and librarians -presumably hard Left librarians- always know what is best for everyone. Of course you do, Dear.

You really shouldn't rely on those flaky internet sites you cherry-pick to confirm your world views. Hard to see the facts with your eyes wide shut.

Dear Is Mise,

Let me also re-instate what I said:

The ADA (Australian Defence Assoication) should raise
concerns that having a military officer answer directly
as a commander to the Immigration Minister could breach
the Defence Act and The Westminster Convention of
separate military command from civil control of the
military.

Foxy,

The elected Parliament does not agree with you. Y'know, the elected Parliament you disagree with that is serving the public that you scold for 'making a mistake' electing same?

Thank goodness there are many who still remember the terrible cost of freedom from the tyrants who know what is best for everyone and for whom freedom, elections and democratic processes are impediments.

There was an election. The (left) 'Progressives', the wolves in sheep's clothing who have a monkey's grip on Labor, were put out of government. The public has demanded and emphatically too, that the boats be stopped. That sticks in your craw, but it is democracy at work and many here will fight to keep it that way.

Foxy I can tell you, from the horses mouth, what most of our sailors on the ships dealing with these invaders think.

They reckon even our little patrol boats are much better gun boats than tug boats. They are all wanting to use them to repel this invasion, rather than do Rudd's towing duty, buying him a few Muslim western Sydney votes.

Of course, having suffered lost conditions, in an attempt to make up the billion dollars Rudd/Gillard cut from the defense budget, most of them would like to shove Rudd/Gillard on those old leaky boats, before repelling, or sinking, them. I gather they mostly don't mind too much which of those it is.

Don't worry folks, it's just that Hasbeen can't help his "political correctness".

Come on ONE UNDER GOD, of course one of our great tenets of a free society - 'the freedom to associate', is writ large, very large indeed.

However, the old 'Consorting Act' was designed as an instrument for police to generally prohibit convicted criminals gathering together for a common cause. That 'cause' was to organise and plan more crime and pandemonium to be occasioned upon our hapless society.

Naturally, if a bunch of crooks were gathering together for a funeral, or an AA meeting or if they had a reasonable excuse to do so, then detectives wouldn't pinch 'em. It's simply common sense is all.

Dear Hassie,

This isn't about saving lives of stopping the boats.
This isn't about anything of any substance. What this
is about is political resonance. The Coalition's
message has been - Labor is abrogating Australia's
Sovereignty. There is a crisis on our borders and it's
time to put the gown-ups back in the Lodge to deal with
a 'national emergency.' That message got them elected
because it resonated with so many people's fears of
the old chest-nut - the invaders from "up North."
Why consider points of substance when you can chest-bump
and play the voters for mugs. Now the military is being
turned on the invaders in leaky boats lurking over the
border and our Prime Minister has a granite jaw and
gunboat. And look at what's happened to the traditional
chain of command. Impressive!

http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/07/25/military-reshuffle-abbotts-operation-sovereign-borders/?wpmp_switcher=mobile

That message got them elected because it resonated with so many people
Foxy,
I'm trying to understand how you people think. The boat peopled invasion of Australia at our expense is indeed a great concern to those who respect their own country hence the many voters who consulted their conscience supporting a more competenent Goverment than what we had in the past six years.
People who support selling out their own country are nothing short of traitors with an evil mind.

Foxy, "This isn't about saving lives of stopping the boats"

The electorate voted overwhelmingly to stop the boats.

Foxy, "This isn't about anything of any substance. What this
is about is political resonance"

Say what?!

Foxy, "The Coalition's message has been - Labor is abrogating Australia's Sovereignty. There is a crisis on our borders and it's
time to put the gown-ups back in the Lodge to deal with
a 'national emergency.'"

Yes, that is right. However you should never have put national emergency in inverted commas because it is real and other countries are facing the same economic, social and security problems from economic migrants.

Thanks foxy…but I don’t think the playgirls mansion could keep up:)

Well what an interesting read, in the small print:)…but I must remind the proper intergraded processes, even if, not the number one on the list, of a governing, with all the facts in place. Australia, as it is, the driest place on earth, with limited resources and people places, not to mention climate change and a changing world even if humanity is not to blame…( in answering Hasbeens question. Ive said to the world..”stop breeding”….but of course that would be stupid factoring in that….Small and smarter…just as equally stupid….and last but not least…the planet its self:)

I back Tony and ADF for looking at the global situation, with the cards the world has to play, with international understandings, concerning of balanced environments, that all world leaders know just too well.

Now whats the threat, if Australia becomes a life-boat?

“You know rats will leave a sinking ship, and where will our sons and daughters go for work..(if they can off their arses)…and maybe with that point, we won’t need any out-siders so to speak” Boat people don’t integrate to well, when given the violence/world the poor/ not our problem/situation…well 1` does begin to wonder, is the planet too full? And should we not consider the possibility, we might just go bankrupted like the utopians of the collective?

I’ve said once and I will say it again…..(with a free democracy as pat Condell points out)….and the biggest question of all time is….How do we stop the world from going bankrupted? Better still....how do we stop Australia from going the same way?....I have a few pointers, but who listens to an opinion:)

Planet3

Dear Indy,

Most people in the past,
no matter what country they inhabited,
tended simply to accept the system they had
been socialised to believe in. People took the
legitimacy of their particular political system
for granted very early in life, and usually adopted
the political views of their parents. And
they took an overwhelmingly favourable view of their
own country's system and of its national leaders.

However, times are changing - especially
with younger people we're seeing a breakdown of
traditional loyalties in which younger people
are beginning to pick and choose among personalities
and positions,
with less regard for party labels. And, certainly
this trend toward a de-alignment of party loyalties
should not be unexpected in our modern society
whose hallmarks are individualism and choice.

Foxy I know you can't see it my sweet, perhaps as a result of your history. Let me assure you, these people are nothing like you, & your fellow refugees we took in after WW11. You were refugees through no fault of your own.

These people are destroyers. They have destroyed their homeland at their own hand, now they want to import all that to Oz.

There is nothing more important that stopping the flow of these people to Oz. First we must stop the boats, then we must stop importing the wrong people, as genuine migrants or as refugees.

It is your grand kids & mine that will suffer this stupid practice of letting in people, because they want our life, rather than because they can enhance our life.

Bring in good people has enhanced Oz greatly, bring in bad people will destroy it.

The "Usual Suspects" are quick to jettison civil liberties and personal freedoms, all to deal with the looming menace, the national emergency, as portrayed by the arch conservatives in Abbott and co. In Australia we have the classic signs of the beginnings of a totalitarian state in the actions of conservative governments across the nation.
Our conservative brethren can see no harm in giving up a few "privileges" as they seem to think civil liberties are, for the benefit of the common good. The use of nationalistic sloganism, 'Operation Sovereign Boarders' the casting of innocent people, asylum seekers, as the villeins, the control of the military to do their political bidding, the conservative media in unquestioning support of these totalitarian actions. Not just in the area of asylum seekers, these attacks are starting to be far more broad based and sustained, attacks on freedoms within education, the pubic media, in the form of attacks on the ABC, workers rights, the list will grow. These are the classic signs of the formation of a totalitarian state, no less. The statement that Australia is not North Korea should be viewed with alarm, as much of what is happening in the far right conservative ranks, is the foundations for such a state.
Foxy, keep up the good work, you are not alone here, you have the support of the thinking, true believers.

Dear Hassie,

The vast majority of Australians are descendants
of immigrants, yet many often act as though today's
immigrants don't deserve what we do, that we have
something to protect from their encroachment. It
seems paradoxical to me that we often can brag
about our ancestors, yet condemn someone trying to
do the same thing today.

Of course there are immgrants who abuse our system,
just as there are people born here who abuse our
system. However I do believe that the majority of
today's immigrants bring with them an
infusion of the same values that our ancestors
personified. I believe that given a chance most
of these people are willing to work hard for long
hours to make a better life for themselves and their
families. I believe that our children do not stand to
be corrputed by their values, so much as their
children stand to be corrputed by ours.

The scapegoating of today's immigrants makes a mockery
of the Australian "fair-go-for-all" ethic. I find
that this is a national immorality when we collectively
say no to compassion.

Foxy,

No-one here or in politics is as you suggest, scapegoating all immigrants. That is your usual strawman, aimed at poisoning the well by making 'xenophobes'(sic) and 'racists' (sic) out of any who make well founded and constructive criticisms of government policies.

It suits your agenda to divert attention away from economic migrants for example. Or to take another instance, form the community's pleas for consultation on immigration policy and the 'diversity we are obliged to have'.

What about you deal with the criticisms of the Rudd's foolish international socialist idealism that trashed Howard's previous effective Pacific Solution, and justify open door immigration policy with facts and logical argument if that what you want?

As for more of the 'Progressives' interference to 'de-align' our successful democratic system, traditions and social values, the short answer is NO! International socialism is NOT appealing to Australians, any more than Sharia Law. So, NO and we saw you coming. :(

o sung wu,
That sentiment between the crocks and police was a long time ago when there was a thing called 'mutual respect' operating.
The Consorting Act along with the Street Offenses Act, the Truancy Act and the Criminal Definitions Act(Regulations) and the Vagrancy Act were never repealed they were simply shelved and could be revived at a moments notice, and I believe they should be, however they were in place to give police the tools to control society as the parliament (people) wanted it controlled.
Now the moment the police manhandle someone or shoot some homicidal or suicidal maniac the 'short order social cooks' want them castrated, tarred and feathered.
I'd hate to be in the job today.

Foxy...your an oak...

Planet3

Hi CHRISGAFF1000...

I stand corrected, sorry. I was under the impression the Consorting had been repealed, along with Street Offences and Vagrancy ? It's little wonder the average copper has a hard time of it, interdicting anti-social behaviour in public places ? As a former prosecutor, you would've seen the effect this had when some poor baggy arse 'jumped the box' with someone like Pat O'Shane presiding. Though I've heard she's taken retirement ?

Even though I'm over seventy years, I still miss the camaraderie, but never the job.

Chris; "they were in place to give police the tools to control society as the parliament (people) wanted it controlled." More like the way the Jackboot Johnny's in the coppers wanted to control society, by using the laws you refer to, the coppers though they ran the show. graft and corruption was rampant, or was that also how society wanted it. Police perform a necessary, well paid job, for society, but it is important to keep them in their cage and under control.

o sung wu…the whole committee of the police force is behind you…what else is on my mind, is these gutless king hit heroes……and the funny thing is, they cant see their being replaced....even the Scottish have our laws in replacement.

Planet3

Hi there FOXY...

I've tried to exclude myself again, from entering the debate on these illegal boat arrivals. I've read with interest your thoughts and the links you've kindly furnished, in an attempt to perhaps mitigate the many reasons they've sought protection from our authorities. Why then did they chose that particular method of arrival ? A method that appears, to be principally suspicious ? Literally trying to sneak in to our country, instead of making a normal application to immigrate.

To me at least FOXY, however well you've argued their case, and how you've strenuously stated the many compassionate and humanitarian reasons, why they do what they do. I just can't help thinking, it's a matter of defending the indefensible. No doubt your compassion and altruistic nature is patently evident. So are the more devious and fraudulent motives of these illegals, they are manifestly evident also, it's sad to say !

Hi there PAUL1405...

I see once more you've kindly provided us with your erudite expertise of the administrative machinations of the Police Service. My main difficulty is, if as you say inter alia, they (police) '...should be kept in a cage, and under control'... however then '...can police perform a necessary, well paid job for society...' while under control in this mythical cage ?

One of my recurring thoughts is that I wonder that, with "spell-check" being free, why more posters don't avail themselves of its undoubted benefits?

O sung Wu, while I would agree that there is no doubt that some asylum seekers have been found to be fraudulent in trying to seek asylum in Australia, I would suggest that putting yourself and your family in obviously substandard boats to cross the ocean to reach Australia, one would have to be pretty desperate?

Unless they were living under a rock, all the asylum seekers would already know about the hundreds(?thousands) who have already died by drowning off these boats on their way to Australia.

Those that do bring their wives, parents, kids with them on these boats must truly be desperate wouldn't you think?
I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for preferring to live in Australia compared to many of the countries they travel through to get here.

There must be a better way than dragging them back to Indonesia, who obviously don't want them? What happens to them then? Being concerned about the underdogs is what makes Australians who they are.

I don't know what the answer is though.
The UN aren't happy with Australia's current methods, and I respect the UN.

<<putting yourself and your family in obviously substandard boats to cross the ocean to reach Australia, one would have to be pretty desperate>>

A better description is *SNEAKY*.

If you knew that by sailing to Oz you would increase your acceptance chances to 97%, and thereafter you could live on welfare for the rest of you life --why wouldn't you give it try? Much more productive, than sailing just across the straits to Tamil Nadu.

PS half the Asian fishing fleet would be substandard by Oz measures.

o sung wu, I was speaking metaphorically when I said "in their cage and under control" that was a reference to giving police unfettered powers to hold people, and powers of arrest. Although some police should literally be in a cage, a jail cell that is, for the crimes they have committed.

o sung wu,
Undoubtedly Paul1405 has suffered some personal wounding at the hands of what he sees as 'bad police' however he needs to be reminded that however police act they do so within the framework of the laws set down by the parliament and directly flowing from the democratic process of a free vote by the people.
Recently the people voted to have a more stringent and diligent approach to all levels of criminal behavior and that is what is happening,
If Paul1405 does not like what the majority vote likes he has two distinct choices.
First he can leave the country and try to find somewhere the social processes are more to his liking or
Secondly he can work within the framework of this society by effecting change to his standard through the ballot box.

There are about 10 million people over 50 in the work force.

Pay them $1 million each severance for early retirement with the following stipulations:

1) They MUST retire.
Ten million job openings - unemployment fixed

2) They MUST buy a new Australian car.
Ten million cars ordered - Car Industry fixed

3) They MUST either buy a house or pay off their mortgage -
Housing Crisis fixed

4) They MUST send their kids to school/college/university -
Crime rate fixed

5) They MUST buy $100 WORTH of alcohol/tobacco a week .......
and there's your money back in duty/tax etc

6) Instead of stuffing around with the carbon emissions trading scheme that makes us pay for the major polluters, tell the greedy bastards to
reduce their pollution emissions by 75% within 5 years or we shut them down.

7) Cut down on pollies perks - they earn enough money to pay for their own petrol, food, drinks, airfares for their wives & families like all other hard working Aussies do. We pay big money but we still get MONKEYS.

8) No government credit cards for pollies - let them get their own then they will be more careful about how they use it and pay up on time so as not to incur interest

Let's put the pensioners in jail and the criminals in a nursing home.

This way the pensioners would have access to showers, hobbies and walks.
They'd receive unlimited free prescriptions, dental and medical treatment, wheel chairs etc and they'd receive money instead of paying it out.
They would have constant video monitoring, so they could be helped instantly, if they fell, or needed assistance.
Bedding would be washed twice a week, and all clothing would be ironed and returned to them.
A guard would check on them every 20 minutes and bring their meals and snacks to their cell.
They would have family visits in a suite built for that purpose.
They would have access to a library, weight room, spiritual counselling, pool and education.
Simple clothing, shoes, slippers, PJ's and legal aid would be free, on request.
Private, secure rooms for all, with an exercise outdoor yard, with gardens.
Each senior could have a pc a tv radio and daily phone calls.
contd.
There would be a board of directors to hear complaints, and the guards would have a code of conduct that would be strictly adhered to.

The criminals would get cold food, be left all alone and unsupervised.
Lights off at 8pm, and showers once a week. Live in a tiny room and pay $600.00 per week and have no hope of ever getting out.

THE AUSTRALIAN CONSTITUTION They keep talking about drafting a Constitution for Iraq ... Why don't we just give them ours?
Got this sent in the email today full credit to whoever wrote this

Why do refugees chose to come by boat?

http://www.smh.com.au/national/he-knocked-at-the-front-door-only-to-have-it-slammed-in-his-face-20140110-30mkf.html

"These people are destroyers. They have destroyed their homeland at their own hand, now they want to import all that to Oz."

What if their land, communities, families and lives were destroyed by others? And they are non-persons in their own land? What if they want to get away from all that? Hazaras from Afghanistan are an example.

The world-wide refugee problem is not an easy one to solve. Australia has the tiniest problem because we are so far away and it takes real effort and desperation to get here.

Some of the opinions expressed here do nothing to help solve the problem. It's just letting off steam at the expense of desperate people

Some of the opinions expressed here do nothing to help solve the problem.
Cossomby,
I agree & that incudes your post as well. This a problem that has been created for us deliberately by warlords in other countries with an agenda for Australia.
Compassion is merely compounding the problem.
As you said we need answers & suggestions. Letting evryone into Australia is not a good suggestion & an even worse solution.
I suggest we provide all able-bodied assylum seekers with equipment necessary to go back & sort out the mess & take the do-gooders with them.

Sorry individual, you've got No 6 wrong.

There is no such thing as carbon pollution, in the context you are using, only plant food.

Given that human beings are a carbon life form, I suppose you could call human life gone wrong a form of pollution.

That being the case, all greenies, obviously life gone wrong, could be considered to be a form of pollution, if you wish to be unkind to fools.

Individual's proposal for compulsory retirement and list of rules for the over-50s shows a lack of understanding of how 'work' works.

First, though, it would be good to get the figures right. There are not "about 10 million people over 50 in the work force'. The entire workforce (2012) is about 11 million (ABS). Depending on how the figures are presented (over 54, over 55, 55-65 etc.) there seem to be about 9.5 million under 54 and about 1.5 million over 54 (and it's often not clear from the various stats when self-employed people are included).

So, Individuals proposal will be a bit cheaper.

But, the more people of all ages work, the bigger the economy, the more jobs, the more opportunity for young people. Get rid of all that experience and knowledge at age 50? (Though I guess the tourism industry might benefit by more grey nomads). I'm much better at what I do now because of the experience I've gained since since I was 50!

I am 71 and still work (my own business). What I do could not be done by a school leaver with no experience, even a recent graduate. Not only do I earn money and pay tax, but I employ people. Some of my work is in education and training of young people, and I get pleasure out of seeing them gain knowledge and get jobs.

There is one benefit to society from early retirement - the use of skills in the volunteer workforce. Perhaps all volunteers could be given Individual's largesse?

But, Individual, you are suggesting the ultimate nanny state. And why should anyone be forced NOT to work? We older workers should get medals for self-sufficiency, keeping off the pension and using our skills for the benefit of the country and the younger generation!

Individual, re 'This a problem that has been created for us deliberately by warlords in other countries with an agenda for Australia.'

I can just see it: a bunch of warlords (Afghanistan, Somalia etc). brainstorming:

Warlord 1. Ok guys, what can we blow up today to make life really difficult for Austria?

Warlord 2: What have we got against Austria (apart from the fact that they are western capitalist pigs (woops sorry, wrong storyline, western infidels)?

Warlord 3: It's those evil kangaroos - they are the real western capitalist infidels - they eat too much decadent apple strudle.

Warlord 4: But I love Skippy!

Warlord 1: You've been watching too much decadent western TV! Bang!

I just don't think deliberately creating problems for Australia is very high on the agenda for most warlords.

Cossomby

The word of the day for you is *GULLIBLE*.

Your article pleads:
<<He knocked at the front door only to have it slammed in his face...Rejecting the lure of a people smuggler did nothing to help this desperate man>>

BULLS-TWANG!

If he didn't employ people smugglers how did he get from Afghanistan to Indonesia?

He just hasn't --*YET*-- employed people smugglers for the final leg of the journey.

As for your second pleading:
<<What if their land, communities, families and lives were destroyed by others?...>>

I think I gave you the answer before-- but you apparently didn't take it in. Afghanistan is not just a non-nice place for Hazarahs it is is an even worse place for the infidel Hindus minority (you might remember the Talban when in govt was all set to make them wear yellow stars to set them apart from the true believers).When things get unbearable for the Hindus they get themselves up and trek across the border to Hindu (majority) India.

The key thing that sets the hazarah apart is they are shia in a sunni dominated region --NOTE: they are NOT die-hard democrats or liberals --they are outed because they follow a different form of Islam.

When things get too tough in Afghanistan many simply up and cross the border into Iran (the mother of all shia) OR, those parts of Pakistan that are majority shia. However, the crafty ones employ people smugglers to get them into an affluent western country --where they are always assured of a wide-eyed credulous acceptance of everything they spout by hundreds of Crossombys'.

Hi there Paul1405...

I believe our reciprocal colleague CHRISGAFF1000, has kindly provided us with a lucid and coherent response. To both your questions, and your obvious unease concerning our dedicated police service.

I might also add, having had the opportunity to observe several overseas police forces of comparable size (approximately 16K sworn and almost half as much unsworn). It's really quite amazing just how adroit and professional most police members are in this State of NSW.

Considering the many instances of wanton and unnecessary interference as well as wilful obstruction they are habitually required to submit to ? Orchestrated largely by their incompetent and meddling political masters, who more often than not, have their own peculiar agenda to accomplish ?

This excludes the 'all powerful' Judiciary of course. Members will put in hundreds of hours, assembling a good brief. Despite the crook having antecedents stretching back before Cook discovered Oz. Regardless of all the good work; the unpaid O/T; still the enlightened, 'all seeing' Judiciary will cut him loose to perform yet another 'bust' or worse ? It's only occasionally you'll witness '4 wheels' full, as it meanders it's way out to the Bay or Parramatta.

Oi ! I'm only the messenger, stop firing at me. I just thought it was good food for thought so start thinking :-)

Cossomby is too diffficult for you to imagine that there is an agenda ? Have you got a radio & a tv ? What don't you understand about about the agenda vehicle that are the refugees ?
Ever heard of the phrase invasion by stealth ?
Start thinking.

SPQR, it's not a matter of gullibility but an awareness of the deeply complex nature of the problem which most of the emotive anti-refugee posts ignore.

Indonesia and Malaysia are not signatories to the UN refugee convention. There is basically no hope of a refugee getting citizenship there. I do not know how this man got to Indonesia and neither do you; you are just assuming he paid a people smuggler. (he may have travelled overland and caught a ferry to Indonesia, with a temporary visa, and then overstayed.)

Being accepted into Australia as a refugee gives people a chance to become citizens and have a life, so it's worth trying.

The SMH article challenges the argument that real refugees should wait in the queue and follow proper procedures. It is an explanation of why people take the risk of a boat trip instead.

Your personal attack on me is unacceptable

Cossomby,

<<The SMH article challenges...>>

"Challenges" LOL

It doesn't so much challenge as give us the 2000th rendition of a tired old tune. A tune that has been covered so many times by some many hack groups that we all know it off by heart.

Clearly the SMH journalist wasn't so much interested in getting (investigative journalist like) to the bottom of HOW the "asylum seeker" arrived in Indonesia --and WHY he chose OZ over other locations, as he was playing the emotional angle for all its worth.

And it worked --like a dream!

Dear O Sung Wu,

The following link may be of
interest, amongst other things it gives the
obligations that Australia owes to asylum seekers
and refugees:

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/publications/face-facts-2012/2012-face-facts-chapter-3

Hi there FOXY...

Thank you very much indeed for supplying me with that link. I do appreciate, Australia as a signatory to that UN Refugee Convention, we have a clear duty to adhere to the specifics as contained in the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees - 1951.

I've no problem with that FOXY, none at all. What worries me, and many others too ? Why are many of these refugees who arrive by boat, take inordinately vigilant measures to discard all documents of identification in order the Oz authorities have great difficulties identifying them, even the country from where they've originally come from ? Essentially, what concerns me...are they bona fide refugees ?

Certainly not, by dint of their highly deceptive conduct ? In fact I'd find it quite difficult to believe anything they say or anything they claim ? It's simple as that. I'm sorry FOXY, the evidence is overwhelming and speaks for itself.

I don't for one minute believe that there are people who object to someone seeking asylum.
The dilemma started when bogus asylum seekers exploited the good will & compassion extended to them.
The hardesd part is how to establish who is genuine & who isn't because even the genuine are bound by superstitious belief to protect the very agenda that makes them refugees in the first place.
They apparently have the right to expect us to put up with them but we have no right to even an insurance such as deporting some when things go wrong.
We must start considering to put our foot down before we get trampled by them.

Hi there INDIVIDUAL...

Much of what you say is absolutely valid. I'd also agree with you, if an individual was genuinely in need of immediate asylum, he should get it. My trouble and by the sound of it, you would concur, is for any of these claimants to arrive here unannounced, and without any means to substantiate both their identity, and their claims ?

If I were to find myself in exactly the same circumstances, I'd gladly furnish the authorities with every jolly document I had in my possession, if for no other reason but to assist in establishing my bona fides (my legitimacy) ! Anything to authenticate my absolute need of political sanctuary. It is for this reason, I find their irregular behaviour, totally bereft of all identifying documents, which I believe is, substantially calculated to deceive ?

Individual and SPQR, just wondering ...if we sent all Muslim boat people asylum seekers back to Indonesia (given your belief that all of them are fraudulent refugees), and took the same number of Muslim refugees waiting in camps over there to Australia instead, would that be ok by you?

Naturally, if all you are worried about is that all these latest predominantly Muslim asylum seekers may be lying about their refugee status, then swapping them for some 'genuine' refugees from Indonesia shouldn't be a problem?

>>if we sent all Muslim boat people asylum seekers back to Indonesia (given your belief that all of them are fraudulent refugees), and took the same number of Muslim refugees waiting in camps over there to Australia instead, would that be ok<<

Of course not: the problem isn't their method of arrival, the problem is their faith. It would be okay if we could swap equivalent numbers of Muslims for Hindus, Mormons, Scientologists etc.

Muslims are a dangerous sub-human element that stand in the way of the glorious advancement of our Fatherland. They are an unclean faith who practice horrific rites: they hoard money, poison wells and murder Christian babies to use their bloods in rituals desecrating the sacred Host. If we let them into our country we will bring racial shame on all that is most dear to us, and we need to find some sort conclusive solution to the Muslim problem.

Cheers,

Tony

Scientologists? You wanna import Tom Cruise and John Travolta? Are you nuts?

Lol RawMustard, we certainly don't want that :).

Now Tony, you have destroyed my questions!
I wanted Individual and SPQR to show their true colours ...

tt/quote..<<..Muslims are a dangerous sub-human element that stand in the way of the glorious advancement of our Fatherland. They are an unclean faith who practice horrific rites: they hoard money, poison wells and murder Christian babies to use their bloods in rituals desecrating the sacred Host.>>

reveals a pathetic 'joker'

THE MODS THINK YOUR joking
PLEASE COMFIRM OR REFUTE*

are YOU 'ONLY joking..mR not very funny man[you/biggot]..

[only joking..GOD KNOWS YOUR NOT.*

IS THIS FROM AN EQUAL opportunity bigot..[Atheist]
oR ONE CLAIMING SOME HIGHER CHRISTIAN..CREED?

prove it mr funny guy

The fight is between Australia and criminal gangs smuggling people.

The Abbott government was elected partly on its undertaking to break the criminal gangs' business model and stop the disgusting loss of life at sea that was a feature of the previous Labor/Greens government.

As well, the Australian people required the incoming government to re-establish control of our borders. That had been lost by the previous Labor/Greens government, opening Australia to a host of most serious problems, including:

- the very likely introduction of exotic pests and diseases that would, not could, destroy primary industry and threaten the health of citizens; and

- loose borders and apparent lack of will to protect borders are an open invitation to invasion. That is easily accomplished by flooding people across the border and claiming the right to the 'unoccupied' lands. But how could they be evicted anyhow once here in large numbers? Their country of departure or any other could claim the right to defend their citizens and interests with police, paramilitary, military or government-supported terrorism.

This Ruddy mess is the direct result of political idealism, and foolish pronouncements and actions by Labor ex-PM Rudd, continued by Julia Wahtshername. As an act of supreme arrogance, Rudd's return to the PM role saw him involve Indonesia in domestic politics on the matter. The 'Progressives' aka Fabian Socialists aka International Socialists still haven't learned.

The Abbott government is succeeding. The main impediment is the Fifth Column at home, of whom a significant number are middle class professionals who stand to gain from illegal migration, for example as lawyers and advocates swinging from the guvvy teat.

phony tony..has MATES
yet another very FUNNY JOKER..

SAYS..KILL PROTESTERS*

Future Sheriff Says Protesters
Should be Exterminated in “Gas Chambers”
http://www.infowars.com/future-sheriff-says-protesters-should-be-exterminated-in-gas-chambers/

A trainee Sheriff posted a threatening Facebook message aimed at Cop Block, an organization which advocates filming police officers, in which the soon to be cop said that protesters should be exterminated in “gas chambers” and that he would beat them up “just for the sheer joy of it.”

"While its rare that we receive direct death treats, they must be taken seriously, especially when they come from someone with military training and is about to become a Law enforcement agent / Sheriff," states a post on the official CopBlock Facebook page.

The threats were made by Darren Redding, a former U.S. Marine and a current cadet in training with the Washoe County Sheriff’s Department. His Facebook page, which is currently being deluged with angry responses, can be seen here.

https://www.facebook.com/darren.redding.58?ref=nf

ALEX..TALKS OF IT ON His show todaY
http://xml.nfowars.net/Alex.rss
i will be talking of it in coURT..TODAY
http://www.constitution.org/writ/quo_warranto.htm
http://www.constitution.org/duepr/standing/standing.htm

@Suzie & co,

<<if we sent all Muslim boat people asylum seekers back ...and took the same number of Muslim refugees waiting in camps over there to Australia instead, would that be ok by you?>>

Well surprise,surprise, that is the intent behind Abbott's border control--every place taken by a crafty illegal immigrant is one less for those in the camps.

And actually, sending a boat back and getting one in return is not too bad a deal. But I propose sending a boat load of Suzie's and Tony's and assort advocates to Iran and them sending us a boat load of Bahá'ís

Noooow that would be a win win --since the advocates could advocate till their hearts content in Tehran and the Bahá'í would make fine citizens.

all of them are fraudulent refugees
Suseonline,
Why do you always have to resort to such stupid remarks ? No one said all, what we're saying is that too many of them are. Fyi, I live on part of the frontline & you have absolutely no inkling what this whole show is all about & my advise to you is to simply refrain from making such ignorant & idiotic remarks. It doesn't do any good for anyone.

Tony Lavis,
Go & look in on Suseonline but for crying out loud don't get romantic, we can't afford any more like that.

Chris said;
"o sung wu,
Undoubtedly Paul1405 has suffered some personal wounding at the hands of what he sees as 'bad police' however he needs to be reminded that however police act they do so within the framework of the laws set down by the parliament and directly flowing from the democratic process of a free vote by the people."
Sorry Sigmund Freud, never had the pleasure of being thrown into the Parramatta River by Constable Clod as I'm not gay, and have therefore not committed the crime of 'gayness' or some other similar (unexceptionable to the coppers) offense, like being black.
Chris please re-read your drivel starting with police act... and then add ROTFLMFAO, at the end, nearly chocked on my morning Coco Pops when I read that one.

o sung wu
"Considering the many instances of wanton and unnecessary interference as well as wilful obstruction they (the coppers) are habitually required to submit to ? Orchestrated largely by their incompetent and meddling political masters (our elected law makers), who more often than not, have their own peculiar agenda to accomplish?" yuda, yuda, yuda, "Regardless of all the good work; the unpaid O/T; still the enlightened, 'all seeing' Judiciary will cut him (the criminal) loose to perform yet another 'bust' or worse"
Sounds like most of the coppers in Oz are the result of a sexual encounter between James Bond 007, and Mother Teresa. More drivel, o sung wu all would be right in your eyes if we had a Police State, forget the rest.

Individual, resorting to personal attacks again when you can't think of anything intelligent to say?
Answer my question...

SPQR, I wasn't asking what you think the Government want to do, but what you think of my question?

Suzie,

I thought I answered your question!

Swap Iran a boat load of advocates and bleedin hearts for a boat load of refugees.

The advocates and bleedin hearts get a chance to show their *TRUE COLOURS* by advocating till their hearts content in Teheran and the Iranians get rid of the Bahai who they have been trying to eliminate for centuries --a sure win win!

But if you are asking:' do I have any problems with Muslim immigration?'
Absolutely! every non-Muslim country that has taken in large numbers of Muslim immigrants (sooner or later) has/or will have a problem with them: http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/immigration-mistakes-return-to-haunt-us/2006/10/30/1162056925283.html

SPQR and Individual,

To give you an idea into how Susie thinks.

Not so long ago, because I find FGM abhorrent and work to eliminate it in Aus, Susie accused me of using FGM as a cover for racism.

She thinks anyone with concerns about an issue not supported by her, has an ulterior motive. On the issue of FGM she is happy to see little girls suffer for cultural reasons.

Paul,
To further illustrate the hypocricy of the greens, you do not mind at all if regulations and laws impede and frustrate bona fide actions of citizens, as I gave earlier. Try being a business person hoping to start a simple business, like opening a sand pit to supply the local building trade, and see the amount of hoops and hurdles by way of 'enviromental impacts' that has to be met, or a farmer endeavouring to run his farm and the regulation to be complied with. All these are either instigated by or supported by the greens and interfere with our freedoms.

Yet you are concerned by our government trying to stop illegal entry to our country and if police are given powers to curb the activities of criminal gangs. You see these as an attack on our freedoms and erosion of civil rights.

But apparently it is quite OK to impede and handicap citizens in pursuit of a livelihood or going about a normal life.

Banjo,

The developer and the exploiter, have had a very 'easy' time of it in Oz, since 1788. Successive conservative state and federal governments have repeatedly favored these people over the environment and the wishes of the ordinary people, often with disastrous results. That is not to say we Greens oppose good sustainable development,far from it, in fact, we support all good development and only oppose the nasty stuff. Its all about balance, and there should not be carte blanche approval of every development proposal put forward simply based on the economic benefit, that often seems to be the case.
As for you sand pit business, or that particular farmer you speak of, I'm not familiar with the details of those matters.

Then there is the Greens and fellow travelers interference in the collection of dead wood for heating and cooking.
One would think that they would support the gathering of wood for fuel as it is not only a renewable source of energy but its collection is often a bushfire hazard reduction.

Dear O Sung Wu,

Actually, the evidence points to the contrary of
what you're claiming. Why don't you Google Fact
Check for yourself and ask the question,
Are asylum seekers really economic migrants?
Undoubtedly, some may well be, however the majority
are found to be genuine. Even under the Pacific
Solution of John Howard - that cost this country a
fortune - most were found to be genuine. Economic
migrants have been found to be the visa overstayers
who come in by plane and the numbers that have overstayed
in this country are enough to fill large cities.
But again you can Google all this for yourself. The
information is available on the web.

People fleeing persecution usually don't worry about
documentation - they're simply in a hurry to save
themselves and their families.

But again - Google this for yourself.

Cheers.

People fleeing persecution usually don't worry about
documentation
Foxy,
If only the superstition they bring along could be left behind with the documents.

Just to reiterate inconvenient truths for Foxy and others:

- the fight is between Australia and criminal gangs smuggling people;

- the Abbott government was elected partly on its undertaking to break the criminal gangs' business model and stop the disgusting loss of life at sea that was a feature of the previous Labor/Greens government; and,

- the Australian people elected the incoming government to re-establish control of our borders. That had been lost by the previous Labor/Greens government, opening Australia to a host of most serious problems.

While it is a fact confirmed by senior ministers of the previous Labor/Greens government (and by no lesser authority than foreign minister Carr himself) that it is economic migrants and other unsavoury illegals who choose to pay very large sums to the criminal smugglers, they are almost ancillary to the war against the noxious criminal gangs.

It is ludicrous that some here have the gall to argue against the assessments and advice given by Carr for instance, when his department is the very one that is recognised by all governments past and present as the lead agency on such matters. Carr said so himself and so did ex-PMs Julia Whatshername and Rudd, although the last mentioned was a ruddy fool for his arrogance in never taking advice. Rudd trashed the Pacific Solution and gave the criminal gangs their business opportunity.

Hi there FOXY...

Again, I thank you for your interesting thread expressing yet another view, on this almost impenetrable social and humanitarian issue that recurringly provokes us, and our political leadership.

In the earlier part of the twentieth century, there was this very erudite Law Lord in Britain, who once remarked, '...it is better a hundred guilty persons go free, than a single innocent person is sent to prison...' or similar words ? It could well be argued that amongst the many boat arrivals, there may be a number of truly legitimate refugees fleeing for their very lives ?

I would respectfully submit, anyone who denied such a possibility, would have to be ignorant, and totally devoid of any common sense whatsoever ? Nevertheless, my question remains why do most of the boat arrivals do everything possible to obfuscate, both their true identity and from where precisely have they originated ?

Many who embark upon their (often dangerous) boat journey from Indonesian shores, must've had sufficient documentation in order to land in that country initially ? Is so, why was it so necessary to discard this documentation ? I note you do say, many arrive with appropriate means of ID and origin. FOXY, I'm not in any position to either prove or disprove material, you have either quoted, or the many links that you've kindly supplied. It is with the greatest respect when I say, the reliability of some of these links are both unverifiable and implausible unfortunately.

Therefore, I think it's a case of, we agree to disagree FOXY ? That said, you always provide a very persuasive and eloquent argument, notwithstanding !

You see PAUL1405, when you depart from a contemporary argument, and seek to malign and vilify a large part of a vocational community, with some asinine attempt to engage in peculiarly mordant discourse, then it's time for me to ignore you.

I recall years ago now, when I first donned blue, an old sergeant said to me '...lad, never argue with a mug...'!

Australia's fight against the criminal gangs engaged in people smuggling is no different from the war being waged internationally against such gangs.

There is no escaping the simple reality that these are very organised, dangerous gangs of criminals who have no humanitarian interest, and would not (obviously do not!) care about the welfare of their human cargoes.

Fact is, if the gangs were not involved in people smuggling because it is easy and highly profitable, they would be trafficking drugs internationally, or sex slaves, or children, or drugs or whatever they find $$ in moving across borders. Doubtless the criminal gangs diversify into other crime. It is about money.

Equally obvious is the willingness of professionals in Australia to engage in the highly profitable business of giving clever advice and strategies including intelligence, to the criminals to assist them in their noxious activities. Direct or indirect, such assistance and public justifications and rationalisations of the dreadful trade gives oxygen to these very dangerous criminals.

G'day ONTHEBEACH...

Your last thread was absolutely 'spot on'! Without in anyway causing you any offence. If an ordinary gentleman like your good-self can see the obvious, why then can't our politicians with their myriad of advisors and strategists see it. And then do something 'constructive' about it ? Instead of ineffectually sitting in their palatial offices in Parliament House, wringing their little white hands with incertitude and dubiety written all over their pathetic faces ?

'Fact is, if the gangs were not involved in people smuggling because it is easy and highly profitable, they would be trafficking drugs internationally, or sex slaves, or children, or drugs or whatever they find $$ in moving across borders. Doubtless the criminal gangs diversify into other crime. It is about money. '

so true OTB which just highlights how treachorius Rudd/Gillard/Greens were in encouraging this trade. They opened the pandoras box and still have not got the decency to keep their mouths shut.

Dear O Sung Wu,

It's always a pleasure to discuss any issue with you.
And yes, we shall have to agree to disagree on this
one. However, I look forward to our next robust
discussion. Thank You for your kind words, and right
back at you - you certainly possess the skill of
reasoned, intelligent argument. And that's a skill
that's not easily acquired. But you've got it in spades.

All The Best.

Banjo, always a pleasure to share thoughts with you.

I have no doubt you care about little girls suffering FMG, as any sane person would be, but that fact doesn't hide your often expressed racist views about Muslims and others.

You, Individual and SPQR could be brothers in fact...

o sung wu,
You are wasting your time trying to have a reasonable and/or rational discourse with that living incarceration of irrationality (PAUL1405).
His continuing psychosis precludes even the smartest of the raconteur class, leaving aside Sir Percy of pimpernel fame of course or perhaps Sir Robert Menzies both of whom I am sure would have reduced this intellectual dolt to a blubbering significantly counterproductive full stop.

And this summation of me coming from our very own Constable Clod, who's highlight of his copper career seems to be the dubious distinction of having thrown gay people into the Parramatta River, as he so did claim, that must have got a bravery award, no less.
'Pig Iron' Bob Menzies, the great failure of Australia, a fool and a buffoon to boot.
"intellectual dolt", at least I have the distinction of having passed written examinations, unlike some old ex coppers who passed nothing more than a height and weight exam, no skill required, to gain employment, and then waited for someone to retire, or worse, to gain promotion. Have things changed? The NSW Police Force these day seems to be populated by mostly 112 pound weaklings standing 5 foot tall, must have relaxed those exams at some point.

Hi there CHRISGAFF1000...

I should respectfully point out, your syntax and vocabulary might be simplified perhaps, and reduced to words of no more than one syllable. In this way your threads might prove to be far more intelligible and in turn more explicit, for our sad little mate, PAUL1405 ?

I know you're just aching to advocate a more appropriate psychogenic locus in which our tragic little friend belongs. But I would caution anyone, not to be too hasty in determining narcissism alone ? I would think it may well prove to be too broad a distinction, in which this sad little creature should hitherto be consigned ?

It's only my view you understand, CHRISGAFF1000 ?

o sung wu, "If an ordinary gentleman like your good-self can see the obvious, why then can't our politicians with their myriad of advisors and strategists see it. And then do something 'constructive' about it?"

It is convenient for them not to see. Anyone who has been in the job (I haven't) would know that. Your exasperation and mine is that the windfall of money and other fringe benefits is more than enough to corrupt all but the very few, who are alienated and neutralised.

Connections, favours, presents, blackmail, unwillingness to rock the boat, the list is endless. However the mark of all of the bent ones is that they fear independent audit, police investigators and public scrutiny. What about these rogues tat their colleagues must have suspected but did SFA?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_politicians_convicted_of_crimes

Susie,
Have you not noticed that muslims and those of other religions tend to come in all manner of shapes, sizes, colours and nationalities?

To be critical of a religion, a culture or a persons conduct cannot be deemed to be racist. You do this to put your opponent on the defensive.

Again you are applying spin, trying to change the meaning of a word to suit your agenda.

Sorry wont work on this little red hen

Banjo 'Sorry wont work on this little red hen'

Oh dear, I am shattered it doesn't work!

Little red hen?
I hate Red Rooster chicken...

Susie,

<<[Banjo]You, Individual and SPQR could be brothers in fact...>>

Brothers-in-fact

What as opposed to (your group) the sisters-in-fabrication

For those advocating unfettered police powers I remind you of the case of Roberto Curti the 21 year old Brazilian student who died at the hands of the NSW Police. Robeerto's only crime was stealing a $2 packet of biscuits from a Sydney city convenience store. Roberto was persuaded by a large pack of the blue two legged attack squad through the streets of Sydney. When this out of control mob caught up with the defenseless student they proceeded to taser him 14 times, yes 14 times, use capsicum spray on him, apply handcuffs and bash him with a baton while all the time kneeling on him.
Is this the actions of a well trained police force or that of a out of control mob? The Coronal report into Roberto Curti death found the police who arrested him were thuggish, reckless and dangerous, saying they acted "like schoolboys in Lord of the Flies".
The Director of Public Prosecutions advised the PIC there was enough evidence to charge four coppers.

<<I remind you of the case of Roberto Curti...>>

Paul1405 gives us the typical Green slanted, twisted, myopic view.

You couldn't pay me enough to be a police officer in todays nitpicking world!

alex jones..tallKING OF INJURIOUS POLICING

http://rss.infowars.com/20140114_Tue_Alex.mp3

IGNORANCE..IS NO EXCUSE
if you think..it cant happen,to you..your deluSIONING..thyself.
eVIL CANT CONTROL ITSELF..and only evil tries to control other*

if you canT/REASON..with a thug/mug..walk away
the second they hurt other..PROPORTIONATE RESPONSE..

YOU CANT KILL..for a packet..of biscuits..[OR TRY TO KILL..for a joint]..IF THE LAW ID FRAUD..the law is the crime..evil cant win..[FULLSTOp]

addendum..[fact*/CHECK]..
by far more are good/iF POTENTIAL..goodness isnt offered [IMP-lied]..then of COUrse..it wont be given..or offerd.

niceness begets niceness

a smile gains a smile
respect..gains respect..but vile begets vile

you control me..but fail tO CONTROL YOU
that reveals your evil..not mine

i ignore evil..let them create their own/realITY
you lie with demons..Your a deciEVER..a..living a lie*

SPQR, "myopic" is that the word of the day? If I have not truthfully stated the facts in the Roberto Curti case, please correct me. My own experience with police thuggery goes back to my student days and the protests over the war in Vietnam. The none too willing attack squad was unleashed by their conservative political masters onto peaceful protesters. Given the right circumstances police will by the very nature of their general persuasion do the bidding of the political right. Roberto Curti is only one recent example of the excesses of police action, over the years there have been many. That is why I am generally opposed to an increase in police powers, but not aleays. I am however in favor of law and order, it is necessity in society, but when it comes to the question of police powers I am also mindful of the need for accountability in a framework of checks and balances.
In no way do I hold with the notion that the police can do no wrong. like the rest of society there are good and bad coppers. As for the job I don't think the NSW Police Force has a problem with recruitment, so it can't be too bad a vocation in life, plenty willing to do the job.

more good cop/bad cop
[its not just cause they wear black]
BUT BECAUSE THEy serve satan*[watch their demonic faces*][pure evil]

content warning*

Published on 14 Jan 2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-Tcop6GblM
Alex covers topics in the news including the acquittal of two police accused of the beating death of Californian Kelly Thomas, the shooting of two people in a movie theater by a police officer and an officer brandishing his weapon at a teenager in a McDonald's drive thru. Stay in the know - Follow Alex on Twitter: http://twitter.com/RealAlexJones



http://www.infowars.com/they-got-away-with-murdering-my-son-mother-of-police-beating-victim/

http://www.infowars.com/index.php?cat=4

http://www.infowars.com/retired-cop-accused-of-murdering-man-at-cinema-for-texting/

http://www.infowars.com/police-beat-elderly-deaf-man-for-refusing-orders/

http://www.infowars.com/kelly-thomas-verdict-cops-now-have-license-to-murder/

http://www.infowars.com/confirmed-the-dea-struck-a-deal-with-mexicos-most-notorious-drug-cartel/

The man stole (committed a crime) he refused to stop when called upon to do so (an offense in itself)and he resisted arrest when caught (another offense)
So he got dealt with in a manner that he inflicted on himself.
If he got killed it was his own fault.
No charges were or will be laid against police doing their job.
In my day he would have been shot running away and good riddance.

Chris I'll remind you of a couple of facts in relation to the death of Roberto Curti.
"The Coronal report into Roberto Curti's death found the police who arrested him were thuggish, reckless and dangerous, saying they acted "like schoolboys in Lord of the Flies".
The Director of Public Prosecutions advised the PIC there was enough evidence to charge four coppers.
Nice effort there trying to defend the indefensible.
Let hope charges are laid soon, so this boy's family can receive a little bit of justice for Roberto.

OUG…The psychology that plays out in the minds of police officers, is the tolerance of being in two worlds at the same time. One is the everyday human being and the other is to in-force the law as their programmed. Splitting one’s mind everyday, most of us do it without being conscience of it.

They are the guards of the government and they have to deal with, what you can only imagine, as the days of being bullied at school. I am aware that several forces are reviewing, revising or writing afresh their internal policies on mental ill-health for staff. Policies about a force’s duty of care towards their police officers and employees. There are various reasons why this is very, very necessary and arguably overdue. Like any organisation, the police service will have staff who suffer from stress and anxiety related conditions because of issues at work; and others arising from personal and medical history. There will be a minority of staff who also have severe and enduring mental health conditions like bipolar disorder, etc..
I am aware from queries over the years that serving officers have been detained by their colleagues under s136 of the Mental Health Act and some police officers have been detained as inpatients in hospitals under the Mental Health Act. This happens to some members of our general population, including doctors, soldiers, academics – why should we think it wouldn’t happen to some of our police officers and staff?
This is a short post, just to throw around some thoughts that indicate why all senior officers need to consider their policies and approach to staff mental health as well as all of us reflecting again on our attitudes which are reflected in some presumptions -

So in short, they can snap at any time just like you…..postal workers comes to mind or going postal….etc

I think if the general public could put yourselves in their shoes for a day….95% of you wouldn’t last a day:)…..remember, without blue heelers or cattle dogs, looking after your sheep would be imposable.

Planet3

o sung wu,...AA..and thanks...from me.

planet3

Hi there PLANET3...

I must say that's an interesting take on those who, are seeking, or have a career in the Police ? I must admit I've known some of our senior officers to be entirely nuts as evidenced by their incapacity to adequately lead their men and women in times of crisis. Anyway, thank you PLANET3 for your fascinating submission, it's certainly something to think about ?

o sung wu..you are more than welcome...and thanks.

Planet3

THAT Duelism/thus appears the Problem
[one caNT SErve two..mASters]

[please note theY SWORE...sacred oath..to serve and protect..HRH/highneSS..Her*/heirs AND Suckceasers

its not ROCKET SCIENCE..they MUST protect..her subjects
not REVENUE RAISE..FOR STATEHOOD FICTIONS[nor proteCT EXPLOITERs..OR THE RICH..nor their mates..just hrh/and THE common people HER TRust*

<<..One is the everyday human being>>

THEY ARNT..HUMAN..they have been given special privileges
TO CARRY OUT SERVICES..NOT EN-force*..REVENUE RAISING LAWS[nor..CRIMINALIZE KIDS FOR moral crimes[service..nOT FORCE

HUMANE..NOT..just human..,,..<<..and the other is to in-force the law as their programmed.>>

THAT SENTANCE..ALONE LABELS..thE Two big problems
PROGRAMING=Machines....[ROBOTIC THUGS ON Power trips

and willing able and wanting..TO USE FORCEE
FOR Convenience.or opportunistic oppressions/tO LIMIT FREEDOM..AND GAIN REVENUE/FROM 'clients]..

<<..Splitting one’s mind everyday,>>

they are empowerd..tO SERVE..AND PROTECT
BOTH US AND our and her estates..not follow orders from a CROOKED LAWYER SCAM..TO PROTECT RICH ELITES

<<.. most of us do it without being conscience of it.>>

WE ARNT ARMED AND DANGEROUS
IF WE HUrt other..[or just touch a cop]..we ARE JAILED

YET..THEY MANHANDLES US ROUGHLY EVERY DAY[UNDER THREAT OF FORCE..THEY GET US TO FORGET RIGHTS..sign away..rights..FORCED TO PAY COMMERCE LIKE..Fines fees ..[Insurances/WE their 'Clients]..read meal ticket/meat..

buy/special light bulbs/new digital tvs..ETC
PAY Fines..pay tolls..pay tax..pay pay pay[its commerce]
if you dont pay/courts and jail/ENFORCE..payment/regardless [or threat of]

obtain LICENSES/[licence is permission TO DO THAT
OTHER WISE [FOR A PERSON/UNDER THE ACT]..Ie..unlawful for THEM*..TO DO]

or register our possessions like slaves
obey obey 0bey..[or WE JAIL YOU
OR WE FInd and fine you

they induce us INTO FEAR
FIGHT..OR Flight..whaT A PLIGHT..TILL ONE DAY..ITS their own kids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-Tcop6GblM

espri/de gore..[no more]

Paul1405
"thuggish, reckless and dangerous"
You really don't think the bad guys are "thuggish, reckless and dangerous"
Let the magistrates get out there and play in the sandpit with these people you'll soon see them cringing behind the "thuggish, reckless and dangerous" cops.
Bye the way I can tell you, from the inside, there will be no charges against police. The union has already indicated it has over a hundred million dollars to defend them. Checkmate.

OUG..Thanks once again…but I’d just like to say(without hurting you feels)…you open a new chapter, every time you post….and I thank you for that.

Planet3

"Bye the way I can tell you, from the inside, there will be no charges against police. The union has already indicated it has over a hundred million dollars to defend them. Checkmate."

Chris,
If that was to be the case, as you say, it would be a travesty of justice and it may see criminals getaway Scot free. Never be too cocky it can come back to bit you. A $100,000,000 you say, that is quite a lot of money, where would a union, like the copper union, lay its hands on $100,000,000, legally. Would be as much money as all the bikie gangs in Sydney would have combined.

I will drop my mate David Shoebridge a line on the subject and see where things stand there. As the Greens police spokesperson in the NSW Parliament David has taken a keen interest in this case.

Paul,

<< [So]The man stole (committed a crime) he refused to stop when called upon to do so (an offense in itself)and he resisted arrest when caught (another offense)>>

And yet-- you're out to get the police officer. It's all very reminiscent of that famous case where someone broke into a compound, climbed onto a factory roof with the intent of burgling the joint, but fell through an unprotected panel and then proceeded to sue the factory owner for damages.

Heaven help us if the Greens ever get to govern!

ITS FUNNY..chris/has bavado..BUILT on the myth
of money..in the bank..lol..he has never heard..of bailin

ITS AS IF HE REALLY THINKS..HE IS SAFE/when every thing HE SAYS AND does is recorded/forever..[evil cant be allowed to win]..then THEIR own words will haNG-EM HIGH.

http://theinternetpost.net/2014/01/14/new-homeland-security-headquarters-costing-extra-billions/

WHEn..i was young..i wanted to be a lawman..sadly..those spiriTS STILL REMain/with me

they fORCE ME TO SEE TOO MUCH..sickness[sic*]

Holy See to be forced to defend itself
against broad accusations it ignored pedophiles
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/vatican-to-be-grilled-by-un-panel-about-child-sex-abuse-1.2497159

First thing the Pope might want to do is get rid of these light switch plates at the Vatican! :{

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/jesuslightswitch.jpg

THE INTIMIDATION/INDOCTRINATION..OF KIDS SEEMS KEY
http://xrepublic.tv/node/7027

i recall the COP/ON THE KIDDies show's..my kids watched was a kiddie fiddler[since then i have learned..they are DELIVERD IN COP AND COM CARS.[SICK]

http://www.infowars.com/police-tell-reporters-that-they-cannot-film-wastewater-plant-from-public-street/
LINKS TO THIS
http://www.infowars.com/fukushima-out-of-control-january-2014/

http://www.infowars.com/big-banks-launder-hundreds-of-billions-of-illegal-drug-cartel-money-but-refuse-to-provide-services-for-legal-marijuana/

LICENSED..TO MURDER
http://www.infowars.com/kelly-thomas-verdict-cops-now-have-license-to-murder/

apart from killing two thirds of us..it seems they..want to get here
http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/15/un-climate-chief-communism-is-best-to-fight-global-warming/#ixzz2qUfP8lsr

once were mostly dead/they wont need so many coppers
so the ones like sonG WOE..Will GO..AND THE FEW LIKE CHRIS WILL RUN THE STAZIE[get em young/MAKE EM FEEl like gods/THEN GET RID OF THE EVIDENCE*..AGAINST OUR MA$TERS..[THEM]THE HAND THAT obeyed satanic orders..

WHERE DOES IT End?
DO A we say..or else
http://www.libyaherald.com/2014/01/13/kidnappers-release-defence-ministers-son/#axzz2qOKmfNg2
http://intellihub.com/2014/01/15/a-review-of-government-attacks-on-parental-rights/

do AS WE SAY..OR ELSE
http://investmentwatchblog.com/new-docs-reveal-obama-lied-about-benghazi-gate-irs-gate-update/

dont take my kids/just call me
http://intellihub.com/2014/01/14/obama-says-he-just-needs-a-pen-and-a-phone-to-make-executive-orders/

http://libertycrier.com/mexican-vigilante-gunmen-disarm-local-police-can-rid-town-feared-knights-templar-drug-cartel

http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen.htm
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/capitolreport/2014/01/15/big-changes-in-store-for-how-feds-calculate-inflation/

http://enenews.com/pitiful-fukushima-plume-hitting-west-coast-and-alaska-any-day-now-no-govt-agency-is-monitoring-radioactivity-in-ocean-public-has-the-right-to-know-we-have-to-watch-seafood-and-fo

http://xrepublic.tv/node/7036
Federal government has been shifting their debt load onto the states to conceal the total national indebtedness.
http://www.humanevents.com/2014/01/14/report-state-debts-top-5-trillion/
http://investmentwatchblog.com/rehypothecation-what-really-happened-to-the-german-gold-housed-in-the-united-states/

Hi there CHRISGAFF1000...

I don't know about you but I'm not built for this incessantly hot weather ? That aside, might you be able to shed some light on that irritating howl that continually whines on, like that of a Humber Diff ! He's awfully annoying you know, this pedagogical debacle. He ad nauseam, recurringly pontificates on various affairs of which he possess little or know knowledge ?

Though I do feel somewhat forewarned, secure in the knowledge, he intends to fully appraise a Mr David SHOEBRIDGE, who I understand is the 'Greens' spokesman on police affairs ?

I do wonder sometimes if this odd little chap, is nothing more than a walking peccadillo ? Or should he be evaluated more cautiously ? Though what would I know ? I'm nowhere near as well connected, as he seems to be with the fearsome Greens ! Or is it your wise counsel CHRISGAFF, that I should immediately secrete myself in a small, unused room somewhere, in the NSWP Centre ?

Dear Philips,

I'm sorry that you feel so strongly about a post that
has been deleted. Usually a post has to be recommended
by another poster for deletion to the Forum Administrator -
and one has to give reasons for the recommendation for
deletion. If the Forum Administrator agrees, the post is
deleted. The Forum Administrator is usually quite fair in
assessing posts and discussions do get quite robust. The
deletions should not be taken personally however, just as a
warning to upgrade our communication skills, and try not to
get too personal or make sweeping generalisations about
people. I hope that you'll have a re-think, and will decide
to stay on this forum. We may not always agree on issues
here, but certainly various opinions should be welcomed
on a forum of social and political debate such as this one.
Providing of course that we don't stoop to personal insults
and inappropriate language.

o sung wu, you would be well advised to keep out of the midday sun. It can play tricks with ones mind. There is an old saying
"Only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun."
I take it from your nic you are not English? Wishing you good health.
I am not as nearly well connected as your cohort Chris pretends to be, with his "Bye the way I can tell you, from the inside, there will be no charges against police." There is Barry O' on one side and Lloyd Babb SC on the other, with good olde' Chris right there in the middle getting the latest goss, from the inside of course, the inside of what? A cell?
Chris I received a reply from David Shoebridge and he informs me the matter is far from finished. We found it laughable your reference to $100,000,000 did you tack on a few too many zero's. How about this;
The Police Association of NSW called for $100,000,000 to be spent on fixing 460 properties, which include police residences, stations and other buildings.
According to you the coppers have a spare $100,000,000 or more to blow on defending the four, I'll do the maths for you that's $25,000,000 for each, maybe the money would be better spent on fixing up those 460 properties they are belly aching about.

SPQR I read your post, then remembered this is an open political forum and people are entitled to hold way out extreme opinions and there is no need for me to reply.
I can see this heat (global warming) is getting to some of our posters, SPQR please get into in the shade, asap, tricks of the mind can be contagious. I also wish you good health.

Chris as I have advised the other two to keep out of the hot sun, In your case I recommend a dip in the Parramatta River for you to cool off, but please be careful as there may be a few gays bobbing about in the river.

oh sung WU..its too LATE,,to save chris..
BUT..MAybe,,for you theRE..iS HOPE..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOsN-P5abVg
a message to our police
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1t9xBe0wPw
THE TRUE DUTY OF A JURY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7nqdV7wV2k

THIS IS WHAT YOUR Defending
[have you forgotten..your oath,,to 'serve and protect?
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Britain%3A_%E2%80%98Pedophile_Network_at_the_Heart_of_Government%E2%80%99/32055/0/38/38/Y/M.html

Imagine If You Found a Sex-Ed Poster Asking This
Provocative Question at Your Daughter’s Middle School
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01/15/imagine-if-you-found-a-sex-ed-poster-asking-this-provocative-question-at-your-daughters-middle-school/

A poster asking some Kansas middle school students a sexually provocative question has at least one parent up in arms.

“How do people express their sexual feelings,” the poster asks, before listing “touching each other’s genitals,” “anal sex” and “vaginal intercourse,” among other things.

After seeing the material posted at Hocker Grove Middle School in Shawnee, Kan., Mark Ellis thought it was likely posted by pranksters, WDAF-TV reported. He couldn’t believe school officials would actually expose his 13-year-old daughter to such a question.

http://intellihub.com/2014/01/16/philippines-tens-of-thousands-of-children-sexually-abused-for-internet-revenue/
http://investmentwatchblog.com/manufacturing-consent-how-governments-control-the-agenda/

http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/news/romanian-court-rejects-mps-super-immunity

http://rinf.com/alt-news/latest-news/welcome-orwellian-america-land-silent-home-submissive/

q/..where is the media on this subject now?
http://www.infowars.com/nuke-commander-purge-another-34-missile-launch-officers-terminated-by-air-force/

When we look back at the ’2007 United States Air Force nuclear weapons incident’, where nukes were reported missing from the Minot Air Force Base with no official suspect, the media went into turmoil and investigations were launched immediately. Even CNN covered the event in depth and continued to investigate what was going on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3hW5FB1DKY
Whether or not the latest nuke commander purge is related to the missing nuke report and previous terminations is yet to be determined as research continues to be directed into this topic.

What is certain, however, is the reality that numerous red flags point to the validity of the unsigned, black ops nuclear arms transfer from Texas’ Dyess Airforce base to South Carolina.

And had we not received our high level military intelligence on the subject that spread like wildfire across various news organizations and communities, we may never know what could have happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnYX4WlqfJg

THE silence=deafening
SATAN FIRST BLOCK..THEIR EARS.

Hi there ONE UNDER GOD...

You've been pretty busy there my friend, teasing out all those 'links' you've kindly supplied to us all ? I must say, you surely possess an encyclopedic mind to be able to recall many of those sources of information that you've had ?

Personally, I can't remember much of what we did last week, let alone quote ad infinitum material that may prove useful, some time in the future ?

Concerning the dire warnings left for CHRISGAFF1000, by some other incidental and extrinsic correspondent herein, I can only say, CHRISGAFF1000 can well look after himself, be well assured of that, my discourteous and impertinent little friend !

Thanks again ONE UNDER GOD, for another one of your well researched but difficultly deciphered threads. I'm sure all your friends (me included) and your many followers, really appreciate many of your extraordinary efforts, as evidenced hitherto.

As always, please take care of yourself....A N D, Try to stay cool !

Cheers...Sung wu.

Well I needed that.
Both my spell from the site and the some times castor oil from my opponents and too friends.
O SUNG WO yes we are polls apart in politics but very little in other ways.
You I think are about my age, so we share some common memory's of our country,s past.
I saw and called it, my party fall face down in to a very dirty mud hole.
I feel the pain of what was, and some still is, in NSW and my old home the ALP right.
You will know of a past bashing in Marickivile, one faction of my party against another, both tainted by self interest and yes, criminal actions.
Memory,s may not be as well bought back of Sir Robin Askin,s criminal rule.
My pain came because *not one Liberal/conservative EVER took up my challenge* to tell us about the wrongs on their team, EVER!
I have never seen the degree of open hate aimed squarely at Labor and its supporters , even my car vandalized, named in shouted hate a product of unwed parents because I continue while demanding better consider Labor the best to govern.
Remember my challenge? who will tell of the growing list of Lib/Nats forced out of ministry's in state and federal government.
To refuse to challenge injustice is to except it.
TWO detractors habitually insult others here.
I tried to ignore them.
Will now.
Do not however forget it truly is not Australia,s best interest to have only one party or to generate hate because others follow a different path.
Any one wish to comment about the man who lead the troops in the get slipper case employing his wife but she had no work to do on big salary?
To highlight wrong in Labor but except it in Liberal ranks is a special kind of damning bigoted blindness.
We who find fault should consider we by hiding our sides faults we damage honest government

Hi there BELLY...It's great to see you back after your self-imposed rest.

AS you well know I'm Liberal to the 'bootstraps' BELLY, however if anyone thinks there are NO corrupt members of the Liberal Party, well, they've led a very sheltered life I'm afraid. You cite Robin ASKIN, a great Premier for the coppers, and for the most part, the State and people of NSW. But...he was as bad and bent, as any Labour member has ever been or ever will be !

There're good and bad in every political Party - we're all human. That said, all we can do is identify who they are, and get rid of them, for all eternity !

Great to see you back old friend, and please, don't absent yourself again if you don't mind !

o sung wo in that post you again prove there is not much difference between us.
And yes I will toughen up.
Here are some of my views on politics.
Both sides have seen some true filth in the past the present and undoubtedly the future.
We are soley to blame for that not them, we keep electing such as Askin and Wrann, obeid and those he owned.
IF we want better we need to get the guts to openly demand better from the side we belong to as well as the other.
We until we know that, get the government we deserve.
I dream,and wait, for true reform from my party and *NAME CURRENT SO CALLED REFORMS A SHAM*
But far worse an insult to the intelligence of the rank and file members.
Yet I must under stand my party is the only one that brings the reforms I value most.

BELLY old friend...

KEEP THE FAITH ! Just KEEP THE FAITH old chap, that's all !

Corruptive practices will bring these people down eventually. Whether Liberal or Labour Party members. And when they do, they'll come down very hard indeed. Not only with a substantial loss of most of their ill-gotten assets much worse, the public disgrace !

Take it easy old son !

Come please, what can Bill do about it? well the best thing is get into the house and seak a leading role now.
We like our grand fathers can do a great deal, stay in our unions get active in letters to those who impose this crime on us and vote only Labor.
To manufacture a poorer working class is the aim of this dreadfull bill and that alone.
As a unionist prison awaits me that holds no fears are you ready to defend your rights?

Posted by Belly, Monday, 7 November 2005 8:13:15 AM

With your first post, as you are today and that's commitment and your well understood.....As the Anzacs would say..."may our bones grow old, but the sun will come up, thanks to us and the world we made, we shall remember them".... yes my grand father....world war2...but that's another story.....oh and by the way...yowies are real..I sH!t you not...in person, you just have to hear the story and you still wouldn't believe it...gentlemen, the world ,is as it is.......Iam still going green with every thing I do...But that's just me:)



My thoughts go all around the world and bring up 3 teenagers, the heads up is for them, and,is for their world to be as good as you remember.

Iam 47 and male...if that helps and just being open...My first son will be great advantage to the ADF...Iam just a pup:)...

And thankyou all, for your great words.

Planet3

"Bye the way I can tell you, from the inside, there will be no charges against police" As posted by chrisgaff1000 15/01/2014. Today 28/01/2014 four coppers appeared in court to answer charges in relation to the tragic death of Roberto Curti. I believe two should be facing murder charges and the other two manslaughter, but its something to gain a small measure of justice for the lad and his family. And Chris, where ever do you get your information being an ex copper and all. Time to start spending that $100,000,000 from the Coppers Union!

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-officers-plead-not-guilty-over-death-of-roberto-curti-20140128-31jov.html

Paul1405
Don.t worry mate they won't be convicted. Wait and see.
The court obviously sees little responsibility in the matter their was no bail requirement and they don't even have to appear next time.
I might remind you of an old saying in the job mate.
"When two or more police are gathered together, there is truth"

Chris, old buddy, I can't go on your form. you made a categorical statement:

"Bye the way I can tell you, from the inside, there will be no charges against police" Its from the inside, straight from Barry was it?

you get my "Egg On Face Award" this week for that one.

Now its "Don.t worry mate they won't be convicted." Is that also from the inside, have you been talking to the judge, are you after another award?

"When two or more police are gathered together, there is truth" there could also be conspiratorial corruption as well. A bit of comparing notes on evidence etc.

Chris, do you have a police record if you are arrested on trumped up charges and then its thrown out of court by the magistrate?

Paul1405
"Chris, do you have a police record if you are arrested on trumped up charges and then its thrown out of court by the magistrate?
Simple answer
YES
Police have little regard for the courts and their recording.

Chris 1971 that one and only, George Street Sydney Anti Vietnam War protest.
I do hope justice is done, and in fairness, at the moment I presume the gang of four to be innocent. Unlike the "notorious" biscuit thief Roberto Curti, who paid for his unproven crime with his life, these coppers will have their day in court. But should they be proved to be guilty in the eyes of the law. It would only be fitting that the criminals be kicked off the police force, and with their criminal record they would have great difficulty getting a job guarding the contents at the sewerage works.

Connecticut Cop Sentenced to 30 Months in Prison
After PREMPTIVLY..Arresting A Priest for Recording..HIS CRIMES
http://www.bobtuskin.com/2014/01/29/connecticut-cop-sentenced-to-30-months-in-prison-after-arresting-priest-for-recording/

A New Haven cop who claimed he was in fear for his life when he arrested a priest for video recording him as he bullied an Ecuadorian immigrant in a convenience store was sentenced to 30 months in prison Tuesday, indicating that justice prevails every once in a while.

Even if the cop was allowed to retire with a full pension.
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/infinite-arrogance-infinite-incompetence-miss-america-miss-universe-miss-governnment_012014

NOTICE TO SERVANT=NOTICE TO MASTER
http://xrepublic.tv/node/7235

THE SYSTEM WORKS..if we ALL..obey THE RULES
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Iceland_Let_Banks_Fail%2C_Jailed_Criminal_Bankers_and_Now_Has_Only_4%25_Unemployment/32442/0/0/0/Y/M.html

IF not..then what have we got?
http://www.themadeinamericamovement.com/2/post/2014/01/the-real-state-of-the-union-for-workers.html
http://investmentwatchblog.com/all-hell-breaks-loose-in-brazil-as-fifa-world-cup-are-protested/
http://www.blacklistednews.com/How_Junk_Economists_Help_The_Rich_Impoverish_The_Working_Class/32447/0/0/0/Y/M.html

the computa..knows..who BEEN PEEING IN THE WATER
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/01/28/dont-be-surprised-if-your-tv-soon-seems-to-know-everything-about-your-politics/

the insane run an asylum..for THE SHEEPLE..
http://www.newser.com/story/181449/congressman-threatens-to-throw-reporter-off-balcony.html?utm_source=part&utm_medium=united&utm_campaign=rss_topnews

group thinK INSANITY
http://rt.com/op-edge/davos-forum-out-of-touch-237/

not seRving other will slow kill-us aLL
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547950/Weather-expert-accuses-Met-Office-warm-bias-getting-annual-predictions-wrong-13-14-years.html

over FISHING..OR GLOBAl warning..OR SERVANTS LYING..?
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/science-technology/global-warming-making-fish-suppers-3086598

one cannot serve two masters
POLICE REAL CRIMINALS OR GO AWAY.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/28/gchq-mass-surveillance-spying-law-lawyer

Chief of Police Harassed by Feds, Placed on Leave After Signing Pledge to Uphold Constitution
http://www.infowars.com/chief-of-police-harassed-by-feds-fired-after-signing-pledge-to-uphold-constitution

..Sheriff orders Shane Harger to disband entire police department due to “political affiliations”.

License to kill
http://www.infowars.com/protester-cops-laughed-about-having-license-to-kill/

anyone/anywhere/ANYTIME.
http://www.infowars.com/no-charges-filed-against-cop-who-shot-72-year-old-on-his-own-driveway/

JUMP..OR ELSE>>?
http://www.infowars.com/why-are-banking-executives-in-london-killing-themselves/

http://investmentwatchblog.com/hsbc-launders-drug-money-pays-fine-using-bailout-money/

http://www.infowars.com/index.php?cat=4

"Through clever and constant application of propaganda,
people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise." -- Adolf Hitler
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ARTICLE5/index.php
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/newmccarthy.php
http://www.blacklistednews.com/32_Statistics_That_Obama_Neglected_To_Mention_During_The_State_Of_The_Union_Address/32467/0/38/38/Y/M.html

Prosecutors 'behaving ludicrously' in case of alleged undercover officer
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/27/prosecutors-behaving-ludicrously-undercover-officer-john-jordan

Prosecutors have been accused of behaving "ludicrously" by concealing the cause of a miscarriage of justice in which an undercover police officer is alleged to have used his fake identity in court to hide his covert infiltration.

Prosecutors have agreed that an environmental campaigner's conviction for assaulting a police officer should be quashed but are refusing to explain why.

Lawyers for the campaigner and three media organisations – the Guardian, BBC's Newsnight and the Press Association – are taking legal action to compel prosecutors to give an explanation.

On Monday at Southwark crown court in London, His Honour Judge McCreath, who said he had "considerable concerns" about the case, that he did not spell out, decided that prosecutors be granted a private hearing in which they can seek to justify the need to keep secret the reason for the miscarriage of justice. http://www.infowars.com/the-most-important-takeaways-from-the-ex-tsa-screeners-expose/ http://www.infowars.com/third-banker-commits-suicide-within-a-week/ http://www.infowars.com/department-of-homeland-security-censors-report-on-deadly-force/ http://www.infowars.com/google-patent-seeks-to-transmit-your-cellphone-videos-to-law-enforcement/ http://www.infowars.com/new-study-links-fracking-to-birth-defects-in-heavily-drilled-colorado/

info Stand Off the war..on its people
http://whatreallyhappened.com/category/cover-ups
via take-over of govt/law process.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/category/politicselectionscorruption-0

(a poem to resist the Police State!)

Year by year
we’ve watched
them fall;
http://whatreallyhappened.com/category/dictatorship

in town square
we’ve seen
them brawl.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/category/hidden-history

Markets buckle
as bankers
suckle,...broken bubbles
turn streets to
rubble…
http://whatreallyhappened.com/category/torturewar-crimes
Rocks to toss
across
the block,
as thumping
shields approach
the flock.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/category/vote-fraud
Now comes the
part we know
so well;
adrenaline
begins
to swell.
http://rss.infowars.com/20140204_Tue_Alex.mp3
A show of force
to make
them bow…
Wait! What if -
imagine now -
http://www.infowars.com/the-dea-is-top-drug-dealer-in-us-atf-top-gun-dealer/
As shaken people
hold their
ground,
impatiently
they mill
around,
http://www.infowars.com/uk-cop-caught-framing-citizen-journalist-on-camera/
within the
ranks of crony’s
thugs
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wildbankers.php
one officer
sighs and
shrugs.
http://www.infowars.com/blue-island-cop-uses-stun-gun-on-accident-victim/
Removes his gear
and throws it
down,
drops his gun
on the
ground.
http://www.infowars.com/king-co-sheriff-fires-deputy-who-threatened-to-arrest-journalist/
Steps over
the line
http://www.infowars.com/gov-jesse-ventura-why-the-world-hates-the-u-s/
that lies
have drawn,
refusing to
be made
a pawn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j0NZop0afY8
Another from
the people’s
side
decides it’s
time to turn
the tide.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/11thmarble.php
Takes off the
mask he chose
to wear,
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/allwarsarebankerwars.php
drops it as
he takes
the dare.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fedponzi.php
Instead of gore
spilled on
the land,
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/climategate.php
each grabs
his brother
and shakes
his hand.
http://static.infowars.com/bindnfocom/2014/02/sayno.jpg

hopes these thought..helps some..understand
http://rss.infowars.com/20140202_Sun_Alex.mp3

Drug Task Force Officer Denied Qualified Immunity For Violating Citizen's Rights With Illicitly-Obtained No-Knock Warrant
. http://www.blacklistednews.com/Drug_Task_Force_Officer_Denied_Qualified_Immunity_For_Violating_Citizen%27s_Rights_With_Illicitly-Obtained_No-Knock_Warrant/32631/0/0/0/Y/M.html

The law enforcement community and their love of no-knock warrants is starting to cost them. Multiple lawsuits have been filed over the past several years because of these tactics and just last month, a cop was shot dead by a homeowner defending himself against armed attackers who bashed in his door unannounced at 5:30 in the morning. The sick twist to that last incident is that the homeowner is now charged with capital murder, an offense that is punishable by death in Texas.

Now, another suit stemming from a no-knock warrant has gone badly for the law enforcement officer behind the raid. Michael Riley, an investigator for the Rensselaer County (NY) Drug and Gang Task Force is now facing the possibility of a jury trial, all without the safety net of qualified immunity. According to the 2nd Circuit Court's opinion, this is how the no-knock raid went down.
.

I don't want to see anyone hurt; but that being said, the drug policy in this country is about as ham-fistedly, pig-headedly wrong as it could possibly be.

Portugal has had an incredible success with its drug policies, which have involved decriminalizing small amounts of drugs for personal use, and urging counseling rather than the prison-time conviction route, and that has curtailed drug use rather magnificently in this country.

But here in the US, you have to ask: how many elected officials profit from drug money? How many big banks profit from laundering drug money? Unfortunately, the huge amounts of money here nearly guarantee that the US will not decriminalize a small amount of drugs for personal use, then encouraging the users to get counseling.
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Corporatocracy%3A_No_Bid_Government_Contracts/32632/0/0/0/Y/M.html

more militarized policing..fruits
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/02/nypd-breaks-childs-leg-for-filming.html

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/cop-killed-during-a-no-knock-raid-texas-jury-refuses-to-indict-homeowner_022014 Cop Killed During a No-Knock Raid, Texas Jury Refuses to Indict Homeowner
By: AltMediaDaily
Tags:

* DICTATORSHIP
* RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS

What would you do if you were soundly sleeping at home, with your pregnant girlfriend and your young children in the house, and then, just before 6 o'clock in the morning, your front door was violently forced open, and a bunch of shouting men waving guns burst in?

If you said "pick up your firearm and defend your family against a home invasion," you aren't alone.

In a clear victory against the police state, a grand jury in central Texas refused to press capital murder charges against a homeowner who shot and killed a police officer after a SWAT team unexpectedly burst into his home to execute a no-knock raid.
http://investmentwatchblog.com/florida-moves-to-ban-use-of-biometrics-in-schools/
http://www.infowars.com/in-19-minutes-a-team-of-snipers-destroyed-17-transformers-at-a-power-station-in-california/

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/02/05/lawmakers-disturbed-and-angered-after-classified-briefing-reveals-extent-of-snowden-defense-leaks/

http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/police-officer-arrests-firefighter-for-protecting-crash-victims/

http://rinf.com/alt-news/latest-news/surveillance-wild-west-secrets-sale/

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/02/aclu-seeks-information-on-fbis.html

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Orwell_Would_Be_Proud%3A_NSA_Defender_Explains_How_Even_Though_NSA_Spies_On_Americans%2C_It%27s_OK_To_Say_They_Don%27t/32673/0/0/0/Y/M.html

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Obama_Regime%27s_Climate_Hub_Plan_Will_Help_Destroy_Small_American_Farms_and_Ranches/32679/0/5/5/Y/M.html

http://rinf.com/alt-news/latest-news/truth-behind-gmo-allergies-toxins-new-diseases/
http://intellihub.com/a-new-911-from-hell-what-would-you-do-if-the-u-s-power-grid-went-down-for-an-extended-period-of-time/

http://intellihub.com/open-carry-activists-hold-street-theatre-spectacle-with-dallas-police/

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/02/woman-on-no-fly-list-for-7-years.html

http://intellihub.com/the-major-weakness-of-the-new-world-order/

Using Deception, Bloomberg Conspires to Completely Disarm Americans
http://www.infowars.com/bloomberg-conspires-to-completely-disarm-americans/
Violent crimes will skyrocket if Bloomberg’s gun control agenda is realized.
366 Comments

DHS Portrays Gun Owners As Bio-Weapons Threat
http://www.infowars.com/gun-owners-considered-racist-terrorists-who-poison-school-children/
Kurt Nimmo | More evidence the government considers American gun owners a domestic terror threat.
512 Comments

New Bill Would Mandate ‘Kill Switch’ For Smartphones
http://www.infowars.com/new-bill-would-mandate-kill-switch-for-smartphones/
Paul Joseph Watson | Authorities could hijack technology to stifle dissent.

50 of Bloomberg’s Mayors Quit After Gun Confiscation Plan Leaked
http://www.infowars.com/nearly-50-of-bloombergs-mayors-bail-over-gun-confiscation-agenda/
Adan Salazar | NYC mayor warns that group promotes “confiscation of guns from law-abiding citizens”

http://whatreallyhappened.com/

the PLAN..REVEALED LAST HOUR
http://rss.infowars.com/20140210_Mon_Alex.mp3
http://www.jewwatch.com/

http://republicbroadcasting.org/Stang/index.php?cmd=archives.month&ProgramID=77&year=14&month=2&backURL=index.php%253Fcmd%253Darchives.getyear%2526ProgramID%253D77%26year%3D14%26backURL%3Dindex.php%253Fcmd%253Darchives
442 Comments

thankyou p3 for making the topic so open..to our thoughts
i was overwhelmed today..with 'thoughts'..but over time learned..to supress them[ie moST topic i try to start get rejected.

i just joined an othER..forUM..and had two posts i posted to teachers deleted because of bad grammer/poor formatting..anyhow..my thoughts on going to court yet agaIN TODAY..were..THAT IT dont need be this hard.

to explain..yesterday i cased..transport arrangments..arrived there well ahead of time..6 'NOt in service busses went past..in thE time it took for the one buss to arrive..[it was late..plus overloaded]

my thought was surely one of the earelier empty busses could hAVE DONE THEIR JOB..but then the next thought was thrust upon me..[turns out the new buss book[extensive but useless bus schedual..advised off peak runS from 8.30 till 4 pm..[YET ON THE BACK COVER IT SAYS 9 AM TILL 3;30..PM

anyhow GET to the bus driver only to find out ticket buyers dont have any off peak[at all ever]..so much for research[but my thinking didnt end there..he gave me the wrong price..THEN NEEDED TO PRINT ANOTHER TICKET NEW PRICE..but then

i took my seat..and saw two kids under 4..STANDING..besides the bus
YELLED TO BUSS DRIVER TO STOP..saw it was 4 kids and THEIR Parents[all black]..anyhow this racist beside me said dont stop/WERE TOO LATE ALREADY[I THOUGHT OF THE 6 EMPTY BUSES

ANYHOW I GAVE HER A BIG TALKING TOO..so much SO..she moved seats
the buss got fuller and gave up/my seat for a fat woman..and went sit on the floor[thinking 6 empty buses]..anyhow eventually the bus emptied and i took a seat

from bordom i saw a price schedule..and seems they even round off to the nearest 10 cents[but thats only a fraction ..of the thoughts]..but i couldnt help telling the old racist biddy..off

ctd

was so ANGRY I GOT CHEST PAINS..BUT GOT MY NEXT DATE IN COURT
6 may..i can stop thinking till then.

I HOPE..SOMEONE TAPED MY TYRADE..PUTS IT ON YOU TUBE
THE POOR OLD THING..i was hard on her..and sadly got angry
in fact no one asked fOR my ticket and got a free ride home

i shouldnt be alloweD A SEAT
EVEN ON A BUS...[PLUS..I WAS WEARING MY BLACK AUSTRALIA SHIRT]

ANYHOW..thanks for allowing mt a topic to vent by
any chance of an on the bussES THREAD?

IM SICK OF BEATING UP ON..COPPERS AND OLD WOMAN
i want to hold govt busses to account..[then the couRT SYSTEM]