rehutub, "One the one hand we automate the car plants, then, we turn around and pay operators $100K to do less than they used to"

The federal public service does it with style. They got rid of regional and low level (work production) positions and reclassified the management jobs every time they had 'savings' from losing low level clerical jobs. They did the same where functions were out-sourced, where the managers who couldn't manage before were reclassified upwards to 'manage' the private contractors. Now it is almost impossible to find a job that isn't 'management'. But management of what?

Over the years the Department of Veterans Affairs for example lost its large hospitals, rehabilitation and clients (eventual death), but still managed to reclassify its executive staff, while losing lower level employees. It would be interesting to compare the numbers and levels of 'management' staff (management/employee ratios) with (say) 1960 or 1970.

But then the federal pollies don't do so bad either, with a proliferation of ministers, assistant ministers and other categories that demand higher pay. That is on top of their elevations in pay, which really ought be shown in a chart form over years. Again, compare then and now and explain the difference.

Some ones loss will be some ones gain. Get rid of Joyce first. He pulled Jetstar down to nothing.
Maybe they need to bye back shares, to decrease the amount of parasites in the food chain.
Doesn't British Airways own half of Qantas.
You will find only domestic airlines have au cabin staff not international. So i don't see how wages are going to help you. Joyce blames long-haul for the decrease in profits.

If a business needs public subsidies to survive ( and pay dividends to shareholders) it shouldn't be in business.
Holden and QANTAS have priced themselves out of the market and that is due to union demands for excessive wage levels.
The only ones losing their jobs here are union members and its about time.
If they all took a 25-30 percent pay cut the businesses would survive but then that would mean no fuel for the family boat or the wife's car or the new patio or what ever else they feel they should have above normal expectations.
Unionists put themselves in the position that exists today let them suffer.

Unions can demand what they like, doesn't mean they will get any of it. It's up to management whether they get anything at all.
When was the last strike at Holden or Qantas. Domestic pilots do national and foreign do international. The same plane to England can have several different pilots.

There are very few companies in the world that last more than 100 years. They either fade away, become irrelevant or get taken over. That's the way of the world. Even large manufacturing companies don't last because we are always changing and developing. I wonder whether Apple will still be here in 2113. I doubt it.

It's a shame if we lose Holden or Qantas, but we can't be sentimental. Other companies inevitably rise and take their place in other areas and we certainly shouldn't subsidise them with public money.

....Unions can demand what they like, doesn't mean they will get any of it. It's up to management whether they get anything at all.

Sorry 579, but that's a load of rubbish.

Unions are the ones who continue to push and push and even push harder, knowing full well they are pushing businesses over the edge.

Rather than be content with a small wage rise, unions usually push for double what they actually get and have no regard for the needs of the business while making their often unaffordable demands.