Hi Suse, you ask "What sort of church has 'talks' like this?" The Mormon Church. If you get a chance my link is to a piece on "The Role of Women in Mormonism" its not very flattering of that church. A repressive organisation if there ever was one.
Years back I had a couple of Americans, Mormons elders, two young blokes doing missionary work (more like looking for converts), they knocked on my door. Not giving them a P off as does 99% of people, I had a discussion with the lads. Well talk about wacko beliefs, one told me God is an American, the other said the second coming of Jesus was at hand, and he will be arriving via San Francisco Bay, soon, that was about 20 years ago. An hour later when the lads left, leaving me a copy of 'The Book of Mormon' and promising to return in a weeks time for another discussion, after I had, had a chance to read said book. The lads never did come back, I wonder why. My wife said "you gave that pair some, I bet they are sorry they ever met you!" The thought for the day "God is an American."

The hardest thing I find about sharing anything about my views, especially online when we can all hide behind computers and can avoid looking at each others faces is:

1. To share the whole context of a belief would require more words that I could probably write in a week, so you are all left with small snippets of believe without enough context to defend itself.

2. Organised religion is highly unfashionable in these days and so regardless of how beneficial the belief or instruction may be, it is seen as ugly and hence, undesirable.

3. People seek to know the truth from irrelevant sources. If I wanted to know how centrelink works because I need to fix my AusStudy payments, what is the point of asking someone who doesnt know how it works and just hates centrelink, or is a car dealership that sell tyres?

4. People assume that there is no freedom in religion. What they fail to grasp is that the people who attend churches (with obvious, illegal exceptions) have a choice in whether they walk in the door, or follow the teachings and commandments. And all those claims of "forcing" and "no choice" are simply lies.

5. We are all, here on the forums, apologists for our beliefs. No-one is willing to test out the strength of the belief itself. A true belief would be able to stand as both logical and beneficial to humankind.

continued

Now, relating to my topic, my thoughts are this:

How do you measure the success of a woman? Or a man for that matter?
If you measure the success of a woman based on what a man can do then you are already creating an inequality between the sexes before you start. The value of the gender is not found in "beating" the other gender at the same tasks or roles. The value of the gender is found in what they can do that the other can't.

Look at sport as an example. In the AFL and many other big sporting organisations, there are draft systems, salary caps, compensations, etc. All about making the teams equal. Because of all this, which of the teams can truly measure the value that they individually hold? They are all just pieces in a puzzle and whichever one gets lucky at a certain time will win the prize.

The value of men and women is not fought over a football field as boys v girls, it is better realised as different sporting codes. Men play football and women cricket. You would never compare the Cricketers against the footballers in a proper match, because they aren't footballers, they are cricketers. Hopefully my point is clear.

How can we value women, if not in childbirth and raising children? This is what makes them a woman. (Obviously there are other differences but you understand my meaning)

What a typical pointless academic thread. All are equal & tht's all there's to it. If someone discriminates against another than the victim can retalliate or at least should have the right to but that is a shady area nowadays in the age of equality.

Thanks for sharing that portion, RandomGuy...

I can agree with the premise that women are no better than men.

I can also use this other portion to make the same point. I've added brackets for emphasis:

"From age immemorial, societies have relied on the moral force of [wo]men. While certainly not the only positive influence at work in society, the moral foundation provided by [wo]men has proved uniquely beneficial to the common good. Perhaps, because it is pervasive, this contribution of [wo]men is often underappreciated. I wish to express gratitude for the influence of good [wo]men, identify some of the philosophies and trends that threaten [wo]men’s strength and standing, and voice a plea to [wo]men to cultivate the innate moral power within them."

Was there a similar contribution at the conference from any morally forceful women members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles or the First Presidency?

The Elder missed the opportunity to lighten his delivery about women's moral authority with the obvious pun, "It's not the homily that is important, but the femily".

But you ask, "How can we value women, if not in childbirth and raising children?". To which I would answer, in the same ways we value any man (except for the biological impediment part about giving birth) along with, how any women wishes to value herself.

guy..i..for one appreciate..the topic
as a..means to expand..and reassess..the context..of my...beliefs.

i...mentioned..the poligomony aspect..at the gay marriage threat
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6073#175135

i dont expect it will..be included into..the bigger picture
im..adapting..at lamb-island thread
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040&page=0

which begun..with..the ..are scientists god/thread
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15257&page=0

as evolved..from..does god use a special.language
and yes there is the true meaning..the adjudged meanings
but the links all link back..via my..post page

so.best allow..[lol]..woman..to define..themselves

but its hard enough to try and join..the dots..of guidance
as i.try to..reply..the other self..revelations..by..you...my peers

thank-you all so much
its so easy..when others speak..openly..of their minds inner urgings

too..much is afraid..of being examined..
with hind site..we together can bring..that better way

but only when we each..have an equal..say
all..links have been..interestingly..clear..in..their bias..but also sincerity..of their fixated beliefs

[anything that hurt's you..personally..
is taken wrongly..[or rather put poorly]..or based on..imaginings[negativity]..more injurious..to the author..than.the reader

lest we forget..if its of god..its all..good
only..men..[ok..man-kind].,.can make errors..but these merely affirm..freewill holds its will free..to will freely..as sacrosanct*

anyhow enough..of me
lets hear more..from..our motherly..nurture

[the mormans 'reveal'..all..woman..may in-time be mother nature
[sustaining the living of life..via.the husband[sun]..life sustained..by light

that just sounds..right