A real test of someone's character is to she how they treat the people who work for them. A stark contrast is provided by a woman who did the make up for both Rudd and Abbott, and the comparison between the two is stark. Has Rudd changed? I think not.

A Brisbane make-up artist who claims she worked on Prime Minister Kevin Rudd before the second campaign debate says she's never had a client treat her so badly.

Bridal make-up artist and hair stylist Lily Fontana worked on both Mr Rudd and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott ahead of the televised debate at the Broncos Leagues Club on Wednesday.

Ms Fontana took to Facebook afterwards to compare her interactions with the two leaders.

"One of them was absolutely lovely, engaged in genuine conversation with me, acknowledge(d) that I had a job to do and was very appreciative," she said on her page, which is public.

"The other did the exact opposite!

"Oh boy, I have never had anyone treat me so badly whilst trying to do my job.

"Political opinions aside...from one human being to another...Mr Abbott, you win hands down."

Comment was being sought from Ms Fontana.

It's not the first time Mr Rudd has come under fire for being rude to people behind the scenes. In April 2009 he was criticised for reportedly making a RAAF flight attendant cry because his preferred meal was not available on a plane.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/makeup-artist-lily-fontana-gives-kevin-rudd-some-lip-20130822-2scok.html

lol
why am i not...surprised

the end

Wow!

P,

Exactly "WOW"

The gurgling sound is that of Big Kev's credibility going down the drain.

SM,

One would imagine that Tony had already been faked tanned to the nines (tandoori orange) - and botoxed well before his make-up session.

No wonder he was chatty!

: )

SM a friend of mine who knew this bloke who lived only 2 blocks from Tony Abbott when he was a kid reckons Abbott used to pull the wings off flies when he was 6 years old. Why does that not surprise me?
Can you disprove this?
SM come off it, be fair, who is this person and what is she actually claiming about Rudd? Did he giver her 2 black eyes or something, what is this all about.
Just between you and me I've met 4 PM's in my lifetime, and the person I thought was the nicest personally was old Billy Mcmahon, Bill would have made a great next door neighbor, but as a PM he was a bit of a DH.

Deear o deary me! How shallow can we get??

P&P,

This is not a 30yr old recollection by someone violently opposed to Rudd with a propensity for lying.

This is a first hand testimony of someone simply telling her friends her story of doing simple work for two people, one (Rudd) treating her with contempt, and the other being charming and respectful (Abbott).

If are trying to argue that Rudd is not a narcissistic control freak, then the airline steward and dozens of people working for him from cabinet ministers and other staffers that have come out and said so.

Rudd has claimed to have learnt his lesson and have changed. The results so far seem to disprove this.

Settle down, SM...you're grasping at straws.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/news-ltd-apologises-to-barbara-ramjan-over-tony-abbott-punch-story-20130805-2r8si.html

SM, you say "one (Rudd) treating her with contempt" can you be a little more specific about how.

"The results so far seem to disprove this." what results?

"Oh boy, I have never had anyone treat me so badly whilst trying to do my job." so said Ms Fontana. Again I ask did Rudd give her 2 black eyes, did he spit in her face, what did Rudd specifically do that made her say "Oh boy, I have never had anyone treat me so badly whilst trying to do my job." How many make up jobs has this woman done, 2.
SM do you think Abbott has reformed since his bully boy days at University. Remember Barbara Ramjan

This is no surprise.

News "A BRISBANE make-up artist who said Kevin Rudd was her worst-ever customer says she regrets the comment as the Prime Minister blamed a "misunderstanding".
Now the woman "regrets the comment" and has removed the comment from facebook.

What do you reckon that cost Paul, one hundred thousand, two hundred thousand, or even more.

I hope she was well paid to lie for the despicable KRudd.

Paul1405, <Now the woman "regrets the comment" and has removed the comment from facebook>

However you are not wondering what pressure was brought to bear to force her to experience regrets.

So much for free speech.

Paul,

You are grasping at straws,

The woman regrets making the comment, but importantly does not withdraw what she said. As all whistle blowers she is fearful of consequences.

Or.......maybe the woman was a Ruddy liar in the first place?

Here is Kevin Rudd the Bully boy:

"As news of yesterday's Facebook post spread, prompting a string of government ministers to have to defend Mr Rudd's character, the Prime Minister's office was confronted with fallout from Air Vice-Marshal Criss's revelations in an interview on Brisbane radio on Wednesday.

The retired airman alleged that at a meeting in the Prime Minister's office on July 11, attended by Mr Rudd, Defence Force Welfare Association national president David Jamison, DFWA executive director Alf Jaugietis and Defence Materiel Minister Mike Kelly, Mr Rudd warned the DFWA against bagging the Labor government.

"I told him I was going to have to point out to our members that what Labor is offering is not a good deal," Air Vice-Marshal Criss said.

"I'm the national media manager, so I told him I would be putting together policy comparisons of what each party is offering. Rudd said, 'That's fine, but don't bag us, because if you bag us, we'll pull up the drawbridge and you'll get nothing'."

Air Vice-Marshal Criss told The Australian yesterday he had been intending to stay quiet about the incident, but chose to speak out after becoming infuriated with what he termed Dr Kelly's "untruths" about military superannuation indexation during an interview with ABC News Breakfast's Michael Rowland on Monday."

All in all, Rudd is a nasty piece of work. It has never been a secret that nearly everyone that actually knows him, hates him.

SM, so Kevin Rudd is now a 'No friends Nigel' to know him is to hate him. When he was a wee little tike his mum would often say to Dad "You know Dad...... I hate that BOY!"
I can reliably report that recently, that's in in last 24 hours, a couple of Labor Party heavies visited the said "Make Up Artist" in her abode where at the time she was enjoying some friendly banter with Mr Chuckles himself wanterbe PM TA. After some "gentle persuasion" and 10 bucks from the ALP heavies Ms Make Up now says she feel all warm and fuzzy whenever the name of her little cuddly teddy bear one K Rudd is mentioned. LOL
And I'm not even a Labor Party supporter. this is a joke.

Paul 1405>> this bloke who lived only 2 blocks from Tony Abbott when he was a kid reckons Abbott used to pull the wings off flies when he was 6 years old. Why does that not surprise me?

Yes Paul, it exhibits exceptional hand eye co ordination….does it not?

Paul>> Just between you and me I've met 4 PM's in my lifetime, and the person I thought was the nicest personally was old Billy Mcmahon, Bill would have made a great next door neighbor, but as a PM he was a bit of a DH.<<

Well Paul your opinion of Billy McMahon must hold water given you have first hand exut I question your jugement given the following:

>>The ABC’s Chris Uhlmann said in 2004 a senior Labor staffer was so captivated by the unflattering portrait of Billy McMahon in Paul Hasluck’s diary in March 1968 that he copied it and circulated it among party colleagues with the question: ‘Who does this remind you of?

"We confess to a dislike of him. The longer one is associated with him the deeper the contempt for him grows and we find it hard to allow him any merit. Disloyal, devious, dishonest, untrustworthy, petty, cowardly —We find him a contemptible creature."

I will leave you with this Kevvy utterance Paul:

“Where’s my fooking lunch. I’m the PM and I want MY fooking special lunch.”

Yes Paul the RAAF stewardess and this makeup artist didn’t see the REAL Kev….the one you know and obviously admire for his commonality and people skills. Perhaps you should have cooked his dinner and did his hair.

The real Kevin Rudd has never left but with a bit of luck several more voters have developed some sense in the past weeks & he'll be gone. He'll still be maggotting off us but then he's not Robinson Crusoe there.
He should not be called Prime Minister, rather Prime wrecker of Australia.

does not surprise me, have always thought Rudd was an actor putting on his nice face for cameras but not so pleasant to others behind the scenes.

Yes while not dead yet I have an intend to continue, taken a break from OLO.
A post not unlike some seen here reminded me, for some we are just a glass house to hurl rocks at each other from, no substitute for true debate.
I believe it is near certain Abbott will win.
And [not one word is not my true view] he is not ready for the task.
Labor is tainted by the actions of some within its own ranks, and some who recently departed.
It took eight years for Australia to see the mess and lack of action the 1975 election of a Liberal government bought with it.
Today blinded by Labors troubles we are about to see the very people who need him most,place the blame on Rudd,s shoulders.
Any clear headed debate would not hide Labors faults.
But too it would not fail to confront the wooden man that is Tony Abbott until his victory.
Gina/ Murdock Miners and Howard prop the man up.
But we will cry at the truth, we have seen Labors backbone conned and as it always has, turn on Labor.
On Monday as is always the case, they will trot in to work shaking their heads and lie, yes say as they do always I never voted for them.
I smell a death like smell, as the young on all sides refuse to get involved and take the lead in both major party,s.
We all will suffer if minor party,s control who ever wins this election.
My regards to all.
By the way that includes the Liberals here,and? yes while hoping for a failure from every minor party, ,we are not Egypt we should remember our opponents are not evil but just think other than we do.

Quite amusing, don't you reckon?

Good old Aussie politics.

I have to say that you know you're delving into a cutting edge forum when the likes of Shadow Minister post some facebook gossip on Kevvie's treatment of a make-up artist.

Still, at least he didn't punch the wall on either side of her head.

(That would have shown real character)

I've not seen any evidence that the woman has been heavied into removing the post. Without evidence it seems more likely that she has put up her comments with an intended target audience of her friends and found herself in the middle of a political storm/whirlwind and not wanted to be there. Also having comments about clients go public is not a good look professionally and from that perspective better removed.

The treatment of others is consistent with the way both are described elsewhere. Hardly likely that anyone on the Labor side believes they are supporting a genuinely nice guy for the top job.

If the issue is the 'real' Kevin Rudd then people could be asking how his positive politics are working out. They could be wondering why he again leads the Labor party after his no circumstances commitment and if anybody actually thinks he meant it at the time. That's the character of the man some want to continue as PM.

Abbott has some big flaws in my view but not a patch on Rudd in that regard.

R0bert

sonofgloin, You can't pick em. Imagine if old Billy Big Ears had actually moved in as my next door neighbor and considering he was disloyal, devious, dishonest, untrustworthy, petty, cowardly —a contemptible creature." these being his good points, I could have lent him my lawn mower, I would have never have got it back!
You have given me a great idea; a test for politicians before I cast my vote I am now going to apply the question. Which politician could I trust to lend my lawn mower to, and reasonably expect to get it back (in working order)? This of course assumes today's crop of polys have some semblance of how to use a lawn mower. Am I asking too much?
Welcome back Belly. In your absence I have been acting as the champion of the Labor Party and defender of the faith. I think in the short time I have been at the helm around here Labor's stocks have dropped 10 point on the forum.
p/s I do think I almost got SM to post a nice comment about Kev, it may still come, after the election, you never know.

Snakes in suits have done some dreadful damage to so many people's careers.

The one good thing to bear in mind is that, in sixteen days' time, Rudd may not be in Parliament.

Okay, two things: by Christmas, Shorten will be leader of the Opposition.

Joe
www.firstsources.info

Okay, two things: by Christmas, Shorten will be leader of the Opposition.
Loudmouth,
Even I, one of the most vehement ALP dislikers have more faith in them, they couldn't possibly want to jump from the fry pan into the fire, or could they ?

Probably, but Shorten almost as phoney as Rudd. My opinion, he would not be good enough for Labor in long term.

For myself, longer term, Chris Bowen would be a better option once situation settles down. For myself, Bowen sounds less phoney and appears a lot smarter than Shorten.

No, I would like to see Penny Wong at the helm. She is intelligent , speaks well, and has an even temper.

I can just imagine the ranting and raving on this site though if she did take over!
But the shock and horror would kill most posters...a woman AND gay as well.

I would love to see that day.

Individual you couldn't have been more wrong, could you? You say "they couldn't possibly want to jump from the fry pan into the fire, or could they?"

Then just 2 posts after you along comes Suse to prove they could.

What is it with Labor & their ability to pick such dreadful people as leaders? I can only assume it must be that they don't want anyone smarter, or more principled than themselves.

Suse you're right, Wong is perfect for you, disgusting, but perfect for you.

I do believe Eddie and Ian are at a loose end here in NSW after the ICAC thing and their coal mine is not doing all that well at the moment.
Dose anybody agree with me that the name Prime Minister Obeid has a certain charming ring to it, along with his able assistant Deputy PM Macdonald.
Suse, seriously I am also a fan of Penny Wong. Penny has what it takes and Australia could do a lot worse than her, a bloke named Tony springs to mind when thinking of someone worse.

'I can just imagine the ranting and raving on this site though if she did take over! '

Yeah Susie similar to the sisterhoods efforts at demonising Mr Abbott over the last few years. Thankfully Abbott is much closer to the lodge than Wong and other emily's lister. The Australian public has had a taste of the sisterhood with Gillard. They have overwhelmingly said no. I am sure it will take a long to to erase memories of such incompetent and deceit.

Paul 1405>> Which politician could I trust to lend my lawn mower to, and reasonably expect to get it back (in working order)?<<

Paul, If Christine Milne borrowed it; Milne would destroy it simply because it cuts grass and uses fossil fuel….. and you would not get it back.

If Clive Palmer borrowed it; Palmer would send it to China….. and you would not get it back.

If Warren Truss borrowed it. Truss would lease it to the foreign Coal Seam Gas consortium….you would get it back, but it would be buggered.

If Kevin Rudd borrowed it. Rudd would use it, abuse it, hock it, and send you a bill for his travel costs.….. and you would not get it back.

If Tony Abbott borrows it……….well we will see Paul….if he and Hockey are duds, I will take great pleasure in giving Right wing acolytes such as SM a serve…. if he denies the undeniable and begins resembling the Lefty acolytes at present.

Suseonline>> No, I would like to see Penny Wong at the helm. She is intelligent, speaks well, and has an even temper.<<

I like her eyes Suse, do you like her eyes?
I like the way she dresses, do you like the way she dresses?
I like her hairstyle, do you like her hairstyle?
I like her nails, do you like her nails?

Ok, that covers Penny Wong…now lets talk about our Finance Minister

Wong became Finance Minister in September 2010, Australia has had four budgets: 2010-11, 2011-12, 2012-13 and the most recent one in May for 2013-14.

Wong has lent her name and her reputation to a set of numbers that tell a story of mind-boggling incompetence.

Lets let 2010-11 go as Wong did not preside over the full year.
Wong predicted a budget deficit of $22.6 billion in 2011-12. She was out by more than $20bn.

Wong predicted a surplus of $3.5bn for 2012-13. She was out by $22.9bn with the actual result being a deficit of $19.4bn.

Wong predicted a surplus of $3.7bn for 2013-14. By July this year, Wong was already out by $33.8bn.

Back in 2011-12, Wong promised a surplus of $5.8bn for 2014-15. Now she predicts a $30 Billion deficit.

Now that’s a record incompetence Suse….but she does speak well, and she is a bit dykie to boot so the minority vote is handy, if only she were a competant sock puppet she would be perfect.

Yes you are right Suse, just what we need for the Lodge, following on the doorstep of Gillard and her boyfriend, we get Wong and her girlfriend.

sonofgloin,

"I like her eyes Suse, do you like her eyes?
I like the way she dresses, do you like the way she dresses?
I like her hairstyle, do you like her hairstyle?
I like her nails, do you like her nails?"

Ha - you lot can talk!

Tony can barely grind out an opinion on the candidate for Lindsay....and he comes up with her (apparent) "sex-appeal".

Great stuff, Tone.

Poirot>> Tony can barely grind out an opinion on the candidate for Lindsay....and he comes up with her (apparent) "sex-appeal".

Great stuff, Tone.<<

Please don’t use that “Tone” on me……lol

P what do I care for Abbotts gaffs, it will be his performance….if elected, that will guide my opinions.

My flippant comment to Suse regarding Wong’s hair etc was an obvious lampooning of her stated reasons for wanting Wong to rule the henhouse. Suse will vote on media demeanor rather than a shabby performance.

P, tell me what you like about Wong….the nape of her neck perhaps, or the curve of her spine….all valid reasons to vote for her I expect.

Sonofgloin, charming as usual...

Tell me then, what do you like about Abbott ?

The size of his ears?
The stammer of his voice?
The glare in his eyes?
The God he follows?
Or maybe the curve of his budgie smugglers?

Hi Suse,

I'll leave the feminine gaze at the curve of the budgie-smugglers to you :)

SoG, thank you for some brilliant observations !

Only fifteen days to go ! Christ, I can't wait.

Joe
www.firstsources.info

For Labor to get back on track they need to become Labor instead of just an idealistic academic yuppy club devoid of sense, manipulated by failed lawyers.

Suseonline>> Tell me then, what do you like about Abbott ?<<

That is the point Suse, it is not about Abbott, it is about the competent governance of our nation. We have no guarantee that the Coalition will deliver competent government, but we do have the guarantee of the past 6 years that the current Labor lineup won’t.

Thanks Joe.

Tell me then, what do you like about Abbott ?
sonofgloin,
I shudder to think people selecting a Government go by the leaders image. Is there no hope at all ? Hasn't anyone explained to them that a Government isn't a one man show ? Well, the Rudd Government appears to be but then again they're not what one would call a real Government would one !

Yes, in fifteen days' time, I'll vote for my local member and his Party's policies, and for my state's Senate team and their party's policies. I can't vote for either Abbott or Rudd. That's how it works. Fair enough.

Joe

sonofgloin,

"My flippant comment to Suse regarding Wong’s hair etc was an obvious lampooning of her stated reasons for wanting Wong to rule the henhouse. Suse will vote on media demeanor rather than a shabby performance.

P, tell me what you like about Wong….the nape of her neck perhaps, or the curve of her spine….all valid reasons to vote for her I expect."

Well hah-di-hah-hah...

That was exactly the point I was making about Abbott.

He could think of nothing pertinent to say of his candidate - nothing remotely pertaining to her aptitude.

All he could talk about was her physicality - her "sex appeal".

It' a bit rich for you to over-egg Suse's comment, when the leader of the alternative government, whom you probably support, comments along those lines.

RObert I think your theory sounds plausible about the facebook comments.

Truth is none of us know really what sort of tempers and character flaws define our politicians unless we have met them or dealt with them in some way. Sometimes what is on the surface is not what is underneath. That is true of human beings in general not just politicians.

If I had a choice of winning a dinner with Mr Abbott or Mr Rudd I would choose Mr Abbott.

Abbott's 'sex appeal' comment was a bit off though even if a momentary difficult pause that he had to fill off the cuff. The funniest and most bizarre moment was won by the LNP with Western Sydney candidate Diaz responding to the 6 point plan 'turn back the boats' plan interview. The quality of candidates may further go downhill with more and more people turning away from mainstream politics. Many people are choosing instead community groups where there is still a sense of ideology, purpose and objectives related to betterment of society rather than the sports arena that politics has become.

Oh I see the handbag hit squad is out in force.

There is no doubt they seem to judge Tony by his appearance.
I don't care how ugly he is, I just want a competant PM.
If he can supply that I will be very pleased.
I guess that is the difference between men & women.

Whatever, I would prefer the silent man to the babbling show pony.
Silence could mean, CPU busy scanning data banks.
Babbling could mean CPU looping looking for valid data.

Funny, just before Tony Abbot said "do you ever shut up ?"
I had said to the TV "Answer the question or shut up".

I sense that what is happening is the same as what happened to Julia.
People just got fed up and stopped listening.

Bazz,

"Oh I see the handbag hit squad is out in force."

Really...is that the best you can do. If a few women comment on a thread these days, it seems the default (and hackneyed) phrase is to come out with that.

I'm sure if you try, you can come up with something far more original.

Poirot said;
I'm sure if you try, you can come up with something far more original.

I am sure I could but it is just not worth the effort !

Gawd, you blokes are boring.....

between the dinner/the handbags..[straps or handles?]
and my durn..lawnmower..neither gave back

i judge practical things..like borrowed mowers,
by if it comes home clean..full of juice/oil etc..as much as..*if it comes home..[or not]..

indont want to hear how..they plan to mow the grass shorter
or longer..or bazillion..not if they plan to trim the edges
..or the ruff..nor how they burn..or dont burn the leaves..as long as its not my mower that fuel's the blaze

anyhow i hear kevie..didnt use the 2 stroke oil
and tony..pulled the cord so hard..its in the shop

what sort of dinner are we talking?
...are we going to talk..or eat....
is the meal on tic/expense account/or on me

despite long being a krudd loyalist..i asked my mind
it said tony..though heart says krudd..

come to think on it..
im not hungry now

where is my strap on man bag?
sorry my sporran

hangon..is that a knock at my door

honey..where is the whippet/sniper

snip..snip
gotta zip..[so i close it]

Bazz,

'Ugly' ? I don't think so, not that it matters really. Mind you, if I was a sheila, I wouldn't mind him getting his leg over.

But after the celebratory cigarette, I suppose I would be asking, what are the policy differences ?

For example, this latest idea of buying up all the boats. Of a sea-faring and fishing nation ? A million boats ? Heath Robinson would be so proud.

So somebody PLEASE tell me what's wrong with the idea of flying 'boat-people' back to the country they have boated from, no punishments, no repercussions, helping them to fill out all the proper forms and get in the queue (yes, Sarah, there's is a queue: 46,000,000 refugees and displaced persons ? How many how found out about Australia, and put their names down ? How long will those 'out-of-sight' refugees have to wait ?).

They could fly back by Garuda, boosting Indonesia's economy. Win-win !

So somebody please tell me what's wrong with that idea, or else give Poirot the lump of wood and I'll gladly go around the back of the shed. Win-win ! I'm sure Poirot would think so.

Joe

Poirot>>Well hah-di-hah-hah...<<

Thank you P, is that Lippy the Lions offsider.…?

>>It' a bit rich for you to over-egg Suse's comment, when the leader of the alternative government, whom you probably support, comments along those lines. <<

I’m not defending Abbott or "over egging" Suse; I’m simply reminding her that she has her bench mark set at “superficial.”

Who to vote for? - that is the question - with
the election coming up.

I guess it all depends on
which party one supports - which specific programs
make more sense, which policies are fully outlined in
policy documents and costed, prior to the election,
so that we as voters can see clearly the differences
between the parties. Most voters are oriented towards
policies not personalities. There's quite a lot to
think about before we decide which way to vote.

Make the votes count -
for the good of the nation.

Loudmouth asked about flying them back.
As I suggested previously, we do this everyday for other ilegals.

<< Gawd, you blokes are boring..... >>

Ahhh haaaaa hahahahaaaa!

.

<< Make the votes count - for the good of the nation. >>

Oh… no, don’t…. for the good of the nation!

Submit a null vote. Don’t vote for the slightly lesser of two evils, whichever major party you think that might be. And don’t vote for anyone else, coz under the disgusting compulsory preferential voting system, your vote will filter down and count for one of the two evils, whichever you put higher on your ballot paper!

Submit a BLANK ballot paper, for the good of nation!

Lexi, no amount of analysis of both party’s policies can get us past the fact that they are basically THE SAME!

They are two peas in a pod….. tweedledum and tweedlejustasbloodydum …. servants of big-business profit-motive-driven rapid-expansionist antisustainability dinosaurs!!

Submit a BLANK ballot paper… for the good of nation!!

...for the good of the nation!!

A bit of the "real" Tony Abbott showed through too with the "shut up" remark that night.

It won't be long before Punchy's mask slips a little more under pressure.

He can't hide from all of the media all of the time.

Sonofgloin,
"I’m not defending Abbott or "over egging" Suse; I’m simply reminding her that she has her bench mark set at “superficial.”"

You never fail to disappoint me with your personal attacks on this site SOG.

As it happens, I am looking at the policies of all the political parties, considering them very deeply (deeper than superficial), and have finally decided to vote against whichever party you favour.

There now, I feel much better now that I have finally decided...

...for the good of the nation!!
Ludwig,
As logical as the clearest daylight-don't vote Labor !

Suseonline>> You never fail to disappoint me with your personal attacks on this site SOG.<<

Cmon Suse "personal attacks on this site," I appologise if I have offended.

>>As it happens, I am looking at the policies of all the political parties, considering them very deeply (deeper than superficial), and have finally decided to vote against whichever party you favour.<<

Well Suse if that is the case....I am voting Labor my dear.

Apology accepted Sonofgloin.
I can't stand either Rudd or Abbott, but due to their current policies on the table, I am actually considering Liberals at this time... :(

Suseonline, I'm a bit surprised by that.

I'm cynical enough not to take announced policies or costings real seriously, both sides seem to generally find reasons to disconnect from policy which don't suit them post election so I tend to vote based on my perceptions of tack record. At the same time I those perceptions are pretty entrenched. At this point I'm struggling with the idea of actually voting for the local Liberal member after some dealings with him. Nice enough fellow and good at turning up to local events but very different views to me on the role of a local member in representing residents of a electorate.

Would you mind at some point covering what you think the relevant diffs in policy are? Genuine question just in case thats in doubt.

R0bert

the reality is that most voters appear to be looking at track record rather than policies. Labour has failed miserably. Abbott could say anything because Labour's word on illegal immigrants, carbon tax, wastage and surplus'have proven to be total lies. Labour are great at promises and useless at delivering. Policies are just that unless you are competent to implement them. That is why Labour always has a 10 year vision so they can never be held accountable. The public have woken up.

I want to make it clear my absence from these pages is not due to Labors impending defeat.
Too that I will be here on the night to cop my dues after that event.
But I need to add to my post regarding Labors decent.
Believe me it is 1972 to 1975 all over again, and magnified.
Labor in those years had some true idiots in its ranks contributing to the 1975 result.
It too confronted a press intent on its defeat, at any cost.
I have measured this team, and the press against those days.
While playing a minor role in two electorates, both to be won by the Nationals, one by a landslide the other by ten percent , I will vote Labor.
And ensure no minor party gains from my vote in both houses.
But my dreams of a Rudd revival, while proud of the bloke, and thinking he was and is our only option, just a dream.
Honesty will out we defeated our selves yes a *dirty press* helped but in the end we made the biggest contributio9n.
HSU should have as its members wished been pulled apart never to blacken its poor members again.
NSW Filth ? prison for about eight of the true scum.
And who will lead us post defeat?
Dare we go in to opposition content that Abbott will see us returned?
I hope not and with all my heart hope Bill Shorten never gets the job.
continued.

It is my honest view Labor lost this election, Abbott did not win it.
We who understand politics should never over estimate the understanding of the average voter.
We are about to continue the link to 1975, like Frazer Abbott is not going to do a great deal, in fact he has in my view more no core promises than all past PM s put together.
And we the average voters do not understand what his policy,s are.
Watch, post election thousands will wounder why the school kids bonus has not arrived.
Yes sad for the ALP and heart breaking for me but if nothing else we must reform and never ever say one thing and do another on winning.
I heard this morning a broadcaster reading an e mail.
It was from a small party supporter.
And said majors being forced to do deals with small party,s just to govern was proof democracy works!
Consider your votes Abbott could get a ten to twenty seat margin but not be able to get bills past greens Labor and several mad hatters party,s!
Is that democracy?
Soldier on ALP voters and know 12 months from now we will be able to say do not blame us.
Let us hope we are never again , including in the next Parliament, are controlled and used by the greens, last is the place they go on my vote yes no matter the out come they insult democracy.

good to hear your still fighting

but belly

..think..you said,,<<..Let us hope
we are never again are controlled..and used by the greens,

last is the place..they go on my vote ..>>

but this means
your voting for tony!
[2de last]

[thats what i hate about preferences..
you gotta put at least one devil last]..and i presumed..tony..to rate that..[in your eyes]

personally..i think..the greens are whipped

especially..if tony AND kevin..put them last..
[i guess it depends on who needs that extra %..green vote..to get in more..

and thats why things wont get too bad
in the end..who do we hate most..[when we distrust both]

but anything can happen..in two weeks..[and im expecting a big black flag event next friday..maybe earlier..that tests them both out

note how tony did a rudd
ie agree to the issues..he couldn't fight..so as to not alienate..

his mind changes...on those things..isnt genuine..but thus neatly..*not election issues..[just like did rudd did with howard]

noting the most recent change
to boats..as a weakness that was instantly shored up

you have to agree..tony kept the scam going convincingly.. [with juliars help..and here never/ever green's tax sceme..selling out *to the miners etc..THEN TO ATTACK THE SMOKERS LOL

[tony again agreed..yet gave an..*impression..
he would repeal the tax..then..was fully in favor
once it was found by..fo-cuss groups to not affect his vote..that much..

[as long as we held onto..his two faced..
[both sides of the barbwire fence]..small target..approach

its like a classic greek tragedy.
but fence sitters..often fall to one side or the other

the funny thing is..they all work..for the same master
[regardless..of who actually wins]

Belly, from day one I was never in favor of Green support for a minority Labor government led by Gillard. I made my thoughts clear to our parliamentary representatives. Having said that, The Greens did not have the influence to the extent over Labor that you would like to portray. The stuffing up of government by your gal Gillard and all the internal machinations that have gone on over the past 3 years and before has nothing what so ever to do with The Greens.
"no matter the out come they (The Greens) insult democracy." That's a bit rich coming from a supporter of a political party peppered at all levels by political grubs and scum bags. In my own seat of Kingsford Smith, Garrett wouldn't re-contest on the grounds he could not stand Rudd, that applies to many retiring Labor members their dislike for your man Rudd. To add insult to injury who does Labor put up as a replacement for Garrett. along with claims of branch stacking, Matt Thislethwaite ex senator and a NSW right wing hack, who is yet to explain his 15 meetings in 2008-9 with the Labor grub Eddie Odeid. I find it an insult to democracy that Labor would expect a vote for this bloke. The Liberals are actually running a decent candidate in Michael Feneley and I've made it no secret I intend to preference Michael over Labor and I don't think I will be the only Green to do so. Watch the result in KS Micael only needs a 6% swing to take it from Labor who have held the seat since its inception in 1949.
p/s The Labor bloke who should have got the endorsement was Tony Bowen Randwick mayor, and son of that great Labor stalwart and long time local member Lionel Bowen, someone I could vote for.

Yes Belly, I agree that if (when?) the Libs win the election, it will have nothing to do with their insipid, would be He-Man leader, but more with the fact that Labor is in such disarray.

RObert, I am cynical too, but I can't see how Abbott and his flock would be able to dismantle their generous paid parental leave proposal after they have ranted and raved about all the lies Labor has told the electorate?
I have a daughter who I would love to see be able to stay off work for a year on half pay with a baby, as I was devastated at having to go back to work so soon after I had her...

I am also upset by Labor's proposal to mess with salary packaged cars, leading to far less benefits of doing this for not for profit organizations who would otherwise not be able to attract good staff.
I work for one of these businesses, and I am going for a job that includes salary sacrificing a car...whether I like it or not!

I also think that we don't need a massive, expensive broadband network, and that the Liberals ideas seem more reasonable for now.

The dreadful asylum seeker mess that Labor has landed Australia in has been embarrassing and caused loss of life, and I wish they had left it alone in the first place.

I guess these are my main reasons for leaning towards Liberal at present, but I am still not convinced completely.
I will wait and view the rest of the policies of both parties first.

Sue,

If the Coalition don't gain complete control of the Senate, they'll have buckley's of getting their upper middle-class welfare through.

(They know that. It will be dispatched and they won't have to back down)

The real Rudd is back, well what the hell did you expect?

How could he improve, he knows he's perfect.

No folks, the only way to get rid of a thing like Rudd is a wooden stake through the heart.

The only other way could be an election defeat so devastating that he is too ashamed to show his face in public. Not sure to work, given time he will probably rationalize people just marked the wrong square & really meant to vote for him.

Poirot, you may well be right, but I think that Labor will be soundly beaten, and so I am resigning myself to that fact.
If Rudd is the best they could come up with after shafting Gillard, then I think they deserve to get beaten!

Yes, Suse, I'm looking forward to having a bit of a dill for PM.

The boat buy-back should be fun to watch.

Yes indeed Poirot, we can amuse ourselves with any number of issues that Abbott is bound to create when in the top job.
In fact, many Abbott admirers on this very forum may well have to eat their words : )

I believe the Thatcher era spawned some of the best satire in decades.

He's already started - much material in his "suppository" of malapropisms.

: )

looks like friday..may be over reach
or too late[rudd may want to look tough..[like howard]

dare to ask..
these important questions

1...Why would Syria's Assad..*invite United Nations chemical weapons inspectors to Syria,..*then launch a chemical weapons attack against women and children..*on the very day they arrive,..*just miles from where they are staying?

2...If Assad..were going to use chemical weapons,..*wouldn't he use them against the hired mercenary army..trying to oust him?

What does he gain..attacking women and children?
Nothing!

The gain..is all on the side of the US Government/israel
..desperate to get the war agenda..going again.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/syriabovine.php
http://benswann.com/u-s-trained-fighters-now-crossing-from-jordan-into-syria/
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-23/pentagon-preparing-cruise-missile-launch-against-syria
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/US-military-reportedly-updates-list-of-potential-targets-in-Syria-as-pressure-mounts-on-Obama-324086

As I type these words,..US trained..and equipped forces..are already across the border into Syria,..*and US naval forces are sailing into position..to launch a massive cruise missile attack into Syria..that will surely kill more Syrians..than were claimed to have died in the chemical attack.
http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/hagel-says-us-ready-for-war-on-syria/62305/

Obviously,..we cannot stop this madness.

The US Government..is listening to Wall Street
and Israel..and cares not what the American people think.

But what We The People can do, must do,
is send a message.,.to the world that we do not believe the war-starting lies..by the US Government.

We know this is a repeat..of the same lies
we were told..about Saddam's nuclear weapons
http://12160.info/video/busted-u-s-backs-false-flag-chemical-attack-in-syria?xg_source=activity

What this means
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Obama-US-is-now-facing-a-more-abbreviated-time-frame-on-decision-for-Syria-Egypt-response-324048

is that Obama realizes..that the claim that Assad gassed Syrian civilians..on the very day UN chemical weapons inspectors arrived simply makes no sense,..and if Assad were really stupid enough to do that,..why didn't he gas the hired mercenarie..instead of women and children?
http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/voice-of-russia-news-of-chemical-weapons-attack-in-syria-published-one-day-before-massacre/62138/

But this next war..for the bankers is on,..as Le Figaro is reporting that US-supported fighters..started entering Syria on the 17th,..three days before the gas attack!

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/lieofthecentury.php

http://www.globalresearch.ca/obama-doj-asks-court-to-grant-immunity-to-george-w-bush-for-iraq-war/5346637

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtcpB7flZBY
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israel-strikes-terror-site-in-lebanon-after-rocket-fire/2013/08/23/240b7d2c-0bc8-11e3-9941-6711ed662e71_story.html

all wars are bankers wars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfEBupAeo4

hey..true blue..is it me an you
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Syrian-rebel-forces-trained-by-West-are-moving-towards-Damascus-324033

So Obama is going to try to legitimize..this premptive invasion
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/report-war-looms-hundreds-of-american-troops-and-cia-operatives-have-entered-syria_08232013

by gong to the UN,..which will fail..as Russia will likely veto any security council resolution authorizing military action,..

at which point Obama will "go it alone"...meaning..sending more American kids to kill people who dare sell their oil for currencies other than the US dollar.

Thanks for your last post OUG, as I have said before, you certainly are not a dill.

Belly>> I hope not and with all my heart hope Bill Shorten never gets the job.<<

China, what do you mean....I don't understand the context, I thought you liked Shorten.

<< How could he improve, he knows he's perfect. >>

Haaa hahahaa!

Well said Hazza! ( :>)

Perfect moron, yep !

Individual, you shouldn't put yourself down like that.

Poirot, maybe a good few suppositories on a regular basis will assist people like Abbott and Rudd to really open up... : )

noting..the previous post..to here
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15380#266004

kevin must go to war..to win
so i had to explain..yet again..how we [govt]
must ONLY bailout the poor!

the easy way..is to revalue..coinage
so our pennies can repay..the inflated debt

a 1 cent COIN..deemed to equal $1
5 cent=$5..2o cent_$20..ETC

PREVENT DEFAULT*
NOT BAILOUT..Nor BAIL-IN..

BUT MY GUIDES ASSURE
we are headed for war..

as long ass kevin hides..the real issues..under black flags of the warmongers..serving the money changers..to loot and plunder satansd realm..into perpetual war

yes kev
its THY..judgment day
will you bring us to poverty..just to save thyself?

SPEAK PEACE mate
no more [pieces of 8]

Labor started this election in terrible shape, it's record over the last 6 years was poor and it's leader was less popular than a dose of clap.

It's only hope of saving the furniture was to
1 Replace the leader with a popular one,
2 Neutralize its most unpopular policies i.e. the boats, and carbon tax,
3 Rush to the polls with a "Presidential" campaign that ignored the past six years and massively attacked Abbott's character.

1 This was a desperate move as Rudd is nice from far, but far from nice. The longer the public is exposed to this narcissistic ego manic the less they like him.
2 The carbon tax has only been partially neutralized, and the PNG solution has collapsed.
3 No one is listening anymore. Compared to Rudd Abbott has a better approval rating and has closed the gap as preferred PM.

I am looking forward to the next polls tomorrow, but I bet Dudd and the left whingers on this forum aren't.

insiders was interesting today
first rudd not beating the war drum..i hope he can keep that up

of course my guides were jabbering throughout
but im comfortable..either way[though julie bisect..as foreign minster is like a cherry on top..of the abbots win..if thats the way things fall

but in case of a tie
i feel we DESERVE a PROPER war cabinet..
picking the gems from both parties,,.from the dross

kevin can still pull his chestnut from the fire
by talking up all *labor has achieved..from witlam..to today
it would make focus on other..the key

ditto if tony talked up his cabnet qualities..[like julia/foreign sec etc..or joe hockeys achievements..or the first?..indigenie in the lower house

both parties have mucht offer
but*

we are sick of tony fo-cuss..on kevin
as much as rudd$ fixated on tony

talk only of those you love guys.,.!*!
the skill sets... of your party's.. MEMBERS*

what would jesus do?
dont think god isnt watching

OUG,

"what would jesus do?"

Well, according to our two "so-called" Christian leaders, he'd shut the door in the refugee's faces and palm them off onto his poor neighbours.

Dear Shadow Minister,

As Alan Austin pointed out to you on his article
thread (and corrected your misinformation) - you
really should stop reading The Australian - and
resorting to insulting the country's Prime Ministers.
Twisting their names - a low
mental capacity, and loses you the argument.

My eldest explained to me last night, why so many feminists are so anti Abbott.

She tells me that a lot of her old Uni mates, fully indoctrinated hard left, actually fancy him.

These ladies are horrified, & hate to admit, even to themselves, that they find him attractive. They realise they are supposed to prefer the pudgy KRuddy, & hate their body for having a mind of it's own.

Realising they should not hate their own body, they try to transfer the hate to Abbott.

The resultant conflict between their indoctrination & their hormones makes them very confused, & gives them migraines.

So fellers, be kind to our misguided lefty feminists, you don't understand the inner turmoil they are suffering.

Got to give it to that daughter, she's a bright kid, chip off the old block of course.

"These ladies are horrified, & hate to admit, even to themselves, that they find him attractive....."

Thanks for the comedy relief, Hasbeen.

Abbott's like an unattractive version of Maxwell Smart.

Dear Poirot,

Who wouldn't be attracted to the -
"loudmouth, wall-slapping bigot at Uni.
The homophobe, blinkered Vatican warrior, the
rugger-bugger, white Australian and junkard dog
of Parliament," that David Marr describes so well
in his, "Political Animal: The Making of Tony Abbott."

Perhaps only his wife and daughters?

Nobody else I know comes to mind.
But then the women I know require more from a man
than just the "mirror" test. (To see if he's breathing).

Lexi,

Who would be attracted to a pudgy, foul mouthed, woman abusing, wife beating leader of the labor party?

With respect to Alan Austin, who clearly has no economic background what so ever, that his purpose is to post misinformation by cherry picking information and presenting them out of context.

As for reading the Australian, the SMH, the age, the Canberra times, etc, I find them informative, factually accurate, and presenting a broad range of interpreting the information. I find The New Matilda, and Independent Australia, seldom present anything new, only ethically dubious polemics with cherry picked facts and misrepresentations, designed to appeal to intellectually challenged persons that only want to hear one side of any issue.

Dear SM,

Thanks for giving me the best joke of the
afternoon. You - talking about intellectually
challenged individuals who only want to hear
their point of view. And as for cherry-picking -
you've got that down to a fine-art - as has the
leader of the Party you support.

I always suspected that you may have a sense of
humour - even though you may not realise it.

Wow, Lexi sweetie, you must have a really bad case of the Abbott attraction syndrome. That was a mouthful, & that is exactly what my daughter was telling me about.

And you a librarian , I expected you would be immune.

Lexi>> Who wouldn't be attracted to the -
"loudmouth, wall-slapping bigot at Uni.
The homophobe, blinkered Vatican warrior, the
rugger-bugger, white Australian and junkard dog
of Parliament,"<<

Lexi wouldn't.

SM>> Who would be attracted to a pudgy, foul mouthed, woman abusing, wife beating leader of the labor party?<<

SM wouldn't.

As I said earlier OUG is the only oracle on this thread.

Dear Hasbeen,

We all have our fantasies.
If yours is Abbott and Me - all I can
say is - Enjoy!

My fantasy has been that men would
love me for my mind - not my beauty.
Ah well - :-)

oh dear,..an oracle
that reminded me of my 1st youtube page
as ioneundergod..

so i thought of the ivan and the snake clip
i posted on it
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ioneundergod+ivan&oq=ioneundergod+ivan&gs_l=youtube.12...4360.4360.0.7309.1.1.0.0.0.0.227.227.2-1.1.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.22wh-ooqoso

but found this clip
ignore the carrot/go for the cherry[cliff richard]..maybe more apt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXH1wxyhjts&list=PL9706FE91E54F5E77

anyhow ivan and the snae
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9MQ88NEO7Q

hoping soon we can hear john [war is over..if you want to]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8jw-ifqwkM&list=PL4061A5E4A6855204

but for now..cat stevens..mooning..the shadows
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGNxKnLmOH4&list=PL2CB6F89FF51A3B39

Dear Lexi,

One does not preclude the other ;)

Love,

Joe

Suseonline, thanks for the response. The parental leave scheme is not one of my favourite policies, I can see why many are bothered by it and have wondered if it's in part Abbott trying to counter the anti-woman tag Labor has been running against him. At the same time I can see advantages in helping up the reproduction rate in families where the parents work but who may still face financial pressures. Be interesting to see how it plays out over time.

I've seen enough of Labors willingness to give to those who don't actually need the help when it suits their agendas that I'm a little less than convinced by their outrage.

I've not looked at the other at all. The exposure I have had to community groups gives me some insight to the issues with making packages viable for staff.

I suspect that Abbott will provide plenty of minor gaffs for comedians to work with but have some hope that he may actually turn out to be a good PM. I'm hoping that he has learned the lessons of Work Choices and the Carbon tax and sticks to his "no surprises, no excuses" claims.

There have been some pretty pointed lessons in recent Australian history about breaking faith with the platforms that have been taken to the electorate. In Qld we also had Bligh denying that she would drop the long standing petrol subsidy and denying she would sell assets in the lead up to the election before last. A discovery shortly after the election that the GFC had not actually left the states finances in a good state (you would think the treasurer and premier might have known that before the election) lead to the breaking of those commitments and in my view contributed to the landslide against them. Wondering how the LNP's breaking of what I perceive to be a commitment about big pubic service cuts will play out.

Abbott seems to be fairly clear in claiming that any significant changes not already committed to will go to the next election.

R0bert

Well, I like the policy on appretiships.
I don'ike the emphasis on roads.
I don't like the absence of policy on rail.
I like the payment to new mums. We need the home grown population.
I think the boat buying idea looks dodgy unless someone has a better
way to implement it than has so far been suggested. Looks to be open
to manipulation. Still it could be dropped if it fails.
Not a single word about fuel security at the same time we are closing
all our refineries. We won't be able to refine our own oil !

Will natural attrition be enough to cut back on PS spending ?
Most other policies are reasonable.

What I would like to see is a reinforcing of TAFE colleges.
Not really a Federal matter but the apprectiship policy will require it.

All in all reasonable, but parts need stronger application.
Hopefully the mad borrowing will reduce dramatically.

Lexi my sweet, I can assure you I have no fantasies about our Abbott, & never actually believed you would have one either. I am having trouble getting my tongue out of my cheek this weekend.

However I find ROberts post interesting. I agree that the parental leave is excessive, & believe it will be interesting to see what the Greens do with it in the Senate, assuming they still have the balance of power.

While I agree that broken promises have weighed heavily on Labor recently, the promises they broke all made the majority worse off. When a broken promise is to disadvantage the despised bureaucrats of the public service, the response does seem to be quite different.

Hasbeen, my flower,, maybe your daughter was gently trying to make you (and other male posters on this site) aware of the unhealthy adulation you lot seem to have for the he-man Mr. Abbott?

Maybe the budgie smuggler photos secretly excite you guys, so you try to put the rest of us off the scent by suggesting it is all a female problem with Tarzan Abbott?

That thought is not nearly as ridiculous as suggesting ANY woman other than his wife would be attracted to Abbott...

Dear Joe (Loudmouth),

If only that were true.

Dear Hasbeen,

I'm so glad that you were joking about
Mr Abbott. You with such great taste -
I was quite worried.

As for election promises?

I like what Dennis Pryor had to say in
his satirical dictionary of Australian politics,
"Political Pryorities":

"Election promises are self-destructing statements
made during election campaigns. Following the
election the promises self-destruct because either
the promise becomes inoperative "due to changed
economic circumstances" or the promise is found
to have been so cunningly worded that it did not mean
what it said and careless voters misunderstood the
terms of the original promise."

Dear Suse,

Well said.

Lexi,

The biggest jokes are Kevin Dudd and the labor party.

"The government is not running on its record. The Prime Minister is not focused on his achievements. He is running a campaign built on fabrications and future glory. He has been caught lying, without compunction, on multiple occasions. This is not even the most insidious mischief.

The government has manipulated the official statistics. It has compromised the reputation of the Treasury. An example of the endless spin cycle is the manipulation of the unemployment rate, a basic measure of the economy and thus, indirectly, a measure of the government's performance. The official rate is 5.7 per cent. It has been trending up for a year, from 5.2 per cent, a 10 per cent rise in 12 months. The real unemployment rate is higher, about 6.2 per cent according to a study by Andrew Baker of the Centre for Independent Studies.

Baker found that more than 100,000 job-seekers had been moved out of the unemployment ranks by shifting them into training schemes. ''An astonishing 360,000 unemployed people are classified as non-job-seekers,'' Baker wrote in his centre's monograph. ''The number [in training schemes has] skyrocketed from 62,500 in 2009 to 150,000 in 2012 … People on welfare who are not required to look for work will stay on welfare longer.'' He estimates that if the unemployed who are classified as ''non-job-seekers'' was included in the unemployment baseline number, the rate would be 6.2 per cent.

Even the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) finds something is amiss with Australia's unemployment data, noting recently: ''The non job-seeker population is so large that it needs more analysis and attention.''

Not good, considering that when Rudd came to power in 2007 the official, uncooked, unemployment rate was 4.5 per cent. Despite a resources boom and $300 billion in government deficit spending, the unemployment rate has risen about 37 per cent under Labor."

Dear SM,

Got anything new to add?
We've heard all this from the Coalition.
How about telling us how Mr Abbott's
going to pay for all of his promises.
We've had enough attempts at diversions -
what about giving the voters some real
information as to why they should vote for
the Party you support. Now that would be
a real change for you guys.
How long do you guys think you can keep
blaming the government and not be held up
to scrutiny yourselves...
People are beginning to get wise.
Things have to change.

Lexi,

Laura Tingle saying the same thing:

http://www.afr.com/p/national/politics/abbott_promises_trust_and_little_w1QmkvE36ztw2a7lb3dCPN

"...generic political twaddle"....

Abbott's forte!

Bill Glasson is a worthy replacement in Griffith for Kevin Rudd.

Kevin Rudd didn't even turn up in his own seat to debate him. The good citizens in the Griffith electorate were far from impressed.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/blogs/up-with-the-times/can-kevin-rudd-the-goliath-be-toppled-by-underdog-bill-glasson-20130823-2sfs5.html

Lexi,

I am glad you think that I can speak for the coalition. Considering that Parliamentary estimates were only released a few days ago, instantaneous costings are a bit optimistic especially as Labor has yet to release its updated costings.

Perhaps you can explain why Labor only provided its costings 12hrs before the election in 2007, and for 2013 is still using assumptions that the PNG failure will stop the boats and that carbon permits will shortly rise to $18/t.

On top of this Labor has shifted the cost of all it major policies to beyond the forward estimates so that the vast majority of expenditure is hidden from voters.

Dear SM,

How can anyone argue with someone who knows it all?
As I've told you previously - that clearly points
to a political career for you. You've been a loyal
member of the Party - you should be rewarded.

Lexi,

A little rich coming from you!!

Try playing the ball instead of the man.

Question:

Given Labor's posting of costings done by someone else 12hrs before the 2007 election, are Labor's calls for immediate costings rampant hypocrisy?

Or will you take the 5th?

SM, Lexi is right.
I have often wondered if you are secretly Tony's speech writer, or at the very least his press secretary?

SOL

I have never been a member of any party. I have not written speeches for anyone other than myself. Neither have I actively campaigned for anyone.

I am an electrical engineer and as those of my ilk, am required to draw conclusions from the facts available, which is very different from the left whingers who appear to form an opinion and then cherry pick the facts that support their argument and ignore all others.

"...electrical engineer" -- "predictable scrutineer", whatever....

And those of his ilk are required to draw conclusions according to their partisan political leanings, and from the "Daring Big Boy's Book of Childish Epithets" (Juliar, Krudd, Dudd, Whine, whinger, etc).

That, folks, is the Shadow Minister Show!

Dear SM,

Pot-kettle?

Isn't politics fun?

As Dennis Pryor points out:

"Especially PIGO - Politics of the Inner Glow.

Because politicians want to be admired and loved they
indulge in actions and words which can have no
conceivable effect but which makes them feel a watm
inner glow that they are fine people with firm but
compassionate moral values" - like Mr Abbott's
bycycle ride for "charity". (the bill came later).

"PIGO is the perfect form of politics: it costs little
and fools some of the people some of the time. It is
much practised by certain pollies whose spiritual home
is in self-righteous opposition."

Another fun feature of politics is of course -
Gallup polls (from the name of a pioneer of this illusion).

"They're based on the principle of asking a representative
sample of the populace for their opinions, for example,
on which of the two politicians they would vote for; which
they rated higher in leadership qualities, honesty,
capability and the like. The results from this sample
are then taken as representative of the community as a whole.
The more obvious deficiences of this method are that it depends
on how you ask the questions, on whether the sample is
reliable and whether the people asking the questions are honest."

"Above all polling is based on the quaint notion that people
tell the truth, a notion contrary to the life experience of
everyone."

"Thus polling is a means of giving mathematical respectability to
a collection of anecdotal evidence."

"Pollsters have no anxiety about accuracy of their political results."

"At the 1987 election the final figures on the day before the
election gave Labor a lead varying between 2% and 14%."

"Faced with any error in election forecasts polsters have a
repertoire of excuses: the result was within the range of
plus or minus 2% which we allow for polling errors: the
swing was inconsistent in different electorates; the
electors changed their minds on the day of the poll."

And so it goes.

As much as I am not a fan of Mr Rudd the bottom line at this election is voting for the policies you least disagree with and hopefully a few good ones in the mix. Mr Rudd's rise to PM again made me seriously consider preferencing Libs for the first time in a very long time, even if the preferences for the majors will be close to bottom.

The topics that changed my mind were the unaffordable PPL scheme, obfuscation around policy costings and the blah blah blah that went with it. Also the lack of duty of care to the environment that we all depend on, failure to address foreign investment caps particularly on agricultural lands etc. The ALP and LNP are both remiss on any issues relating to food security, development and protection of agriculture (as opposed to mining)environment and free trade mythology.

It is a shame it has to be down to the better of two evils.

Voters have the opportunity to vote minor parties and good idependents FIRST in the Senate and Lower House. If enough people show their dissatisfaction with the two majors and reflect this in their votes maybe the political landscape will change for the better. If we keep voting the same tweedledum or tweedledee nothing will change.

I feel the same way Pelican, as I too am loath to admit I am leaning towards the Coalition for the first time in years too.

I am just trying not to think about Abbott as PM, but rather what I think are the policies most important to my family.

Of course, one can never be sure the policies will ever pan out either.
If they don't, then Shadow Minister will be the first to let us know...

Suse
I am still pondering the preference issues. With respect to SM, I don't think his/her analysis is the best litmus test of Coaliton policies. They will all be perfect. :)

i stopped watching..*media watch..years ago
but just caught the last 5 minutes tonight..TONIGHT'S episode really explained the murdoc hardpress gang..deliberate attempts to cast rudd down

so went to media watch site
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/

but..its not up yet
it will..be worth seeing if you been gutted..by the relentless negativity..it just might modify the poll numbers once..*fully examined

remember..PERCEPTION..IS EVERY-THING*

Good morning all, I quite enjoyed every post from my last here.

So that question about Bill Shorten?
Well in truth I *Idolized him!*
But lets return to this election, those front page reminders Joe Goebbels was an armature in comparison with the rotten to the core Murdock Empire.
Not just Fox news but every rag the bloke owns, and his current stewardship of the Australian Coalition!
But first?
I am not unaware Australians grasp at the men, on both sides, in the clean white shirts kissing baby's and bottoms, forgetting who they are.
Or of Labors troubles self made and not .
I know, deep in our hearts we all do, change is needed from one side to the other , but doubt we will like this one.
And do not doubt Murdock is acting like a crime Lord!
Here are my views on the election.
Labor will have a small revival, from now to the day.
Abbott and fear of him fuels that.
But unless Tony slips on his bottom lip we are bound for opposition.
Post election,we are going to again ask why do we need an upper house?
Challenge please4 do, the thought minority's pushing majority's is democratic.
This country no matter who wins, needs to let them govern.
Do we understand we fracture our system of politics if we let majority rule fall to any of the smaller party,s plus the ALP.
Now but me no9 buts! Labor shared power with the greens, in the end it contributed to our fall.
Abbott, forget his words he lies, must take small party votes in the senate to govern, at what cost/bribe will majority pay for that?
Small party,s make mad promises see Palmer,s idiot ones, only fools waste votes hoping the imposable takes place, he wins.
Labor tragics like me?
We will see so very many post election ask them selves how they could be so silly, and within a month?
Murdock,s roll will make international headlines.

hi belly
the mediawatch..episode is up
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3834127.htm

it should have a transcript?

indeed rupert has overstepped..and will now [shortly]..fall
and its tony who..will EITHER FALL TOO..or initiate mudrocs fall

SEE someone has done the deal
WHAT DEAL..PROMISED..the sale/selling NBN
to rupert/his son..or shelf company..the whole nbn..for cents on the dollar

then he takes over telstra..when it goes broke
cause of a tiny..*clause in the fine print..freeing him of all/any nbn contractual obligations

common..ol fella..think
what possibly could rupert get..want..but more power.

more control
him..lol..lacking any self control

hear it on
mp3

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/tv/mediawatch/mediawatch_2013_ep30.mp4

No mediawatch will have any effect on anything. No one, who is not a far left type ever watches it today.

I don't think any one not far left watches any ABC today. They have become the most corrupt media organisation in the country by far. They try to pretend fair coverage of everything, while being so biased it has become painful to watch.

They have destroyed their own desire to influence the countries politics by becoming so left, while kidding themselves they are being subtle, with their bull droppings.

I was a rusted on ABC listener for 30 years, but you can't watch/listen to any of it today, without rather dumb people bombarding you with lefty/green propaganda, the fools think they are subtly slipping in unnoticed.

im trying to make it a new topic..ie moving north
going west..[with the navy]..kevin latest policy..

kevin....just announced..a long term study..
to maybe move..the navy off garden..island..to make way for the cruise industry/tourism..etc..WHAT A HUGE DEVELOPMENT*..

but that upsets the plan..of mice and men..because the nsw premier..first proposed..it..is on auto-deney..

as i speak..some mate of barry o'ferral..,
refers to it..as a brain snap..

it sounds like basic common sense..but why wait..boats float..instantly..about time the navy practiced dock making

or good port access[hint/hint]

but barry..sounds like he wants his cake..and the navy too
and no doudt too..NO FURTHER CASINO"S to compete with..*murdoc junior

anyhow tell me im wrong
it makes sense to me..its seems visionary

Being a bit Verbose today, two posts in one day, still on my rest period.
But I have no choice.
We need to talk, and not intending to start a thread yet, this is the place to do it.
Been out, my day off, voting and visiting mates at a pre poll spot.
Bit strange, *Electoral Commission has Nationals party along side it!
Parked my car in the only parking spot available.
And was called a B#@st&&d from within that HQ room.
Car? vandalized by the 70,s plus old fool who used those words.
Folk told me and my mates they wanted to shoot us!
Even the harshest critic of me here knows I highlight the many wrongs of Labor, in fact agree with a post from SM, we do go in legs tied by SOME in our movement.
We must however confront now what we want for our country,s future.
Are we to become two tribes hating each other?
Individual, *the reason for my rest period* says Labor voters betray this country.
Murdock a true Maggot calls our leader a Nazi.
We are better than that.
If not we no longer are a country of mate ship and fair go mate.

'I was a rusted on ABC listener for 30 years, but you can't watch/listen to any of it today, without rather dumb people bombarding you with lefty/green propaganda, the fools think they are subtly slipping in unnoticed. '

so true Hasbeen. that is why they try so desperate to demonise Murdoch so as to escape any decent scrutiny. And all this leftist propaganda with tax payers money.

Dear Hasbeen and runner,

How would you guys feel if newspapers would come out
with the headlines, "KICK THIS MOB OUT," and other
similar supposedly "unbiased" headlines,
about the Party that you support.
And also if Mr Abbott was on the front -pages in a
Nazi uniform - would you then still think that the
Murdoch press was being unfairly seen to be biased?

I believe in the freedom of the press - but the recent
nastiness of the
personal attacks by the Murdoch press have been unlike anything
that this country's seen. They haven't just attacked
policies - they've made it personal and attacked
the person - and that demeans us all - and lowers the bar
of the national debate. We should demand better from
our Main Stream Media and this certainly raises the question
about having our media in the hands of predominantly
one person.

Lexi

after 6 years of the national broadcasters rubbishing, mocking and demonising Abbott as a woman hater and other blatant lies with tax payers money its a bit rich to criticise Murdoch. Fairfax media with the likes of Marr have consistently attacked the conservatives. 'Kick this mob out'is just echoing what many if most people want.

Your assertion 'personal attacks by the Murdoch press have been unlike anything that this country's seen. 'is plainly wrong. It is actually quite mild compared to comments like ABC favourites such as Catherine Deveny.

Whilst I would prefer the language was toned down and personal attacks decrease you could not possibly believe it is all one sided.

runner,

Actually the ABC has gone fairly soft on Abbott in recent times.

No pursuance of Brough's involvement in attempting to bring down the Speaker of the House, or his dodgy involvement with Ashby, even after Rares J tossed out the case as an abuse of court, finding that Brough, Ashby and Doane had colluded for political gain.

Also nary a whimper from the ABC regarding the revelations that Abbott was forced to pay back $9,400 he had claimed for travel expenses when promoting his book...It was mentioned but not pursued with any great vigor.

If what you are representing was accurate, one would have expected the ABC to have gone in boots and all - instead they hit him with a feather.

MSM in general appears to be supporting Abbott, no doubt about it, albeit Murdoch is so ridiculously transparent in his attacks on Labor that democracy is being mocked while we all sit back and accept it.

Poirot,

'Actually the ABC has gone fairly soft on Abbott in recent times. '

we also have not heard anymore about Gillards slush fund. I will admit that Chris Ulman has been a breath of fresh air on the ABC. Tony Jones on the other hand **

what is also ignored is that Murdoch supported Kevin 07. They are probably now acting out of shame like every other person who voted the incompetents in.

Lexi my sweet, if any government had been as bad as this last lot, I would expect it. I think I was saying something about McMahon & Malcolm Fraser. If they deserve it, give it to them.

The big complaint is that our ABC should have been saying it.

Poirot has it occurred to you that the ABC just might be a bit scared that they might soon get what is coming to them. Some of us expect them to be brought into line, & some would like to see them privatized. It would do many of them a lot of good to spend a few months on the dole queue.

Hasbeen,

"Privatised".

Oh goody....just imagine it being filled to brim with soaps and commercials and mindless garbage like the the other free-to-air stations.

Wonderful!

Lexi,

Newscorp has made no secret that it is supporting the coalition, just as it made no secret that it was supporting Labor in 2007.

To be fair, over the last few years, every time any newspaper has uncovered Labor skulduggery, while completely unable to refute the facts, labor has openly attacked Newscorp, culminating in an attempt to ram through some of the most oppressive legislation against free speech seen in the free world.

Notably I see nothing from you about the blatant bias of the ABC.

Come on Poirot, nothing could be worse than the wall to wall lefty/green propaganda.

It wouldn't even be so bad if they did it well, but their propaganda is as transparent as a 3 year olds lying. In fact many 3 year olds can produce something more sophisticated than our billion dollar ABC can come up with. Most of their stuff is cringe worthy.

Lexi,
A couple of weeks ago you posted a thread about a Republic, remember?

When I questioned your motive for doing so, You said I was wrong and that you were 'passed politics'.

I see you are back in the thick of politics. How convenient!

SM
It is one thing for newspapers to unearth skulduggery, and in fact is what they should be doing, but quite another to influence so greatly the way people should vote with headlines reading "Vote this Mob Out" and similar. Whether you are a LNP, ALP, Nationals or any other party this type of media influence is well beyond the ethics and charter of journalism.

If the reverse was true supporters of the LNP would be just as horrified at the lack of ethics. This topic is more important than which team you vote for, it is about democratic processes and a fair and balanced media. Even if people from either side of politics reap the benefits of this perversion of media at various times they should be ashamed of their defence of it.

SM, Hasbeen,

Murdoch is spitting on democracy.

So much for "ethics".

I see he has your support.

Murdoch could never become biased enough to balance the ABC. Much prefer an honest "kick this useless mob out", than the disgusting back door ABC method.

Also prefer someone doing it with their own money, not the creepy crawlies at the ABC doing it with mine.

Poirot, Pelican,

"Murdoch is spitting on democracy"

So where were you in 2007, or have you amnesia?

So where were you when Comrade Conroy tried to introduce press censorship?

There is an ethical requirement for journalists and papers to verify their information that they publish, however, there is no ethical prohibition for journalists or newspapers forming an opinion political or otherwise as long as they can justify it. (The ABC being a public service is supposed to provide balanced opinion which they ignore.)

SM
So you agree with unfettered media bias then? I am not sure what your views are based on your previous response. Writing an opinion piece is not the same as having headlings telling people which way to vote or dressing a leader as Hannibal Lecter. Hasbeen likes it for now but stance would be different if directed against Conservatives.

That is my biggest point, that this is not about party politics.

Some of you complain about ABC bias but it is more 'balanced' than Murdoch controlled press, if comments about ABC bias from both sides of politics is anything to go by. Comments on social media and other forums show Left and Right complaining about ABC bias. Funny when you think about it and says a lot about human nature.

On the importance of offending, and sucking it up, Richard King has a new book out, from which this is an extract:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/arts/review/defending-the-right-to-offend/story-fn9n8gph-1226701456062

May we all go on offending each other, it's vital for democracy.

Cheers :)

Joe

Some of you have heard this before, so pardon me while I let the others in on a secret.
Many years ago my son started work at the ABC as a technical officier.
A friend who already worked there advised him to keep quiet if he voted
liberal if he wanted to make a career in the ABC.
At the time he left that was still the case.

The saying there is only Liberal voters are in the closet at the ABC.
The queers and "progressives" are out in the open and running the place.

BTW, when did the tag progressives get put onto lefties, greenies and
such like ?
Exactly what is the meaning of the word in that context ?
It certainly is not the dictionary meaning.

Pelican,

If you read the Newscorp papers you will still find plenty of opinion pieces that are less than glowing assessments of the coalition, so the bias is far from unfettered. The reports are still factually accurate, and so the ethical requirements are largely met.

I have also seen plenty of over the top cartoons of Abbott. As for Dudd, how else would you draw a cartoon of a man that is nasty to the people who work for him? Most readers are grown up enough to differentiate symbolism from reality. I think you are being a little precious about this.

As for the call to "get rid of this mob" I can't think of anyone more dangerous to free speech in Australia than the Labor party.

Copy and paste this this and see the illuminating selection of front pages from Murdoch's camp.

"This is what it looks like when a billionaire manipulates the election with 65% of a country's newspaper circulation"

https://twitter.com/itsneal/status/370332671710224384/photo/1

mainly sour grapes by people complaining about Murdoch. They have been silent for decades about the national broadcasters anti family, anti conservative, pro gay, anti Abbott, pro global warming fantasy mantras. They also were happy for Murdoch to back Rudd is 07. I suppose when you are the most incompetent and deceitful Government in Australias history you need to blame someone for the bad polling. Sad part is I think the likes of Shorten and Wong are to blind to see. At least Rudd knows they have been atrocious performers.

SM
Putting aside our differing views on some of the Coalition policies, can you not see the dangers in concentration of media ownership and in a biased media. Of everthing that is the biggest threat to free speech as well as overt government interference.

Media owners are businessmen. They are not elected to represent the people and should ensure their reporters check facts. I like opinion pieces that put forward a reasoned analysis even if I don't share the conclusions of that analysis. But these are clearly marked as opinion pieces. "Vote this mob out" is not an opinion piece splashed on the front page. I also criticised the media (you can trawl through my old posts if you want) when there was hyper-focus on some of Abbott's faux pas. It was trivial and in the realm of 'tea and scandal'. Churnalism instead of journalism.

Cartoons are one thing and all politicians get a lampooning from time to time, but front page Hannibal Lecter is not in that category. Surely you can see the difference.

Hi Pelican,

I would have thought that "Vote this Mob Out" WAS an opinion, it's hardly a dispassionate observation, or an academic finding. Any half-wit reading it would agree or disagree, but they would not be at all confused about whether it was an opinion or not.

Probably, once an election campaign has started in earnest, we all almost instinctively grow an extra layer of cynical skin, assuming that from now on, everything is opinion, hype, slag, spin, lies, dirt, etc. But isn't it fun too ? Surely, after seven months of election campaign, we're entitled to watch somebody sink the boot in ?

Buckle up, some of you fellas, and enjoy the ride :)

Joe

Joe
There is no dispute it was an opinion. Is it the media's place to 'put the boot in'? I am buckled in as you put it but already sick of the ride. Still trying to get rid of the political junkie addiction. :)

But some of us junkies will feel a lot better on the Morning of the 8th of September :)

Not sure how I will feel on the 8th. Won't be happy with either Abbott or Rudd as PM. If one of the two majors has to win (and that is a given in a 2-party dominated system) my wish is an ALP win but 1. Rudd loses his own seat and 2. Lots of good independents, Greens and minor party contenders in the Senate to keep the incumbents honest.

YES!!

My thoughts exactly, Pelly.

Are you pair mad?

You have just described a recipe for an Italian or French type parliament, with total chaos.

OK Luddy, if as you tell me, you are not rusted on, perhaps you are rusted off. Off good sense that is.

The last "Mediawatch" program has a bit to say about the "real" Rudd and the character assassination by Murdoch press, with a nice spot on Rupert himself talking about enjoying the exercise of power and media concentration (towards the end).

Just a question diverting from the topic, but how is it we are supposed to be having a (concocted) "budget emergency" when we're all going to kick goals and be winners despite a current and predicted revenue shortfall? Are the "prominent Australians" chosen by the LNP over Treasury to vet its figurings simply going to ignore basic facts in taking their part in its ruse? I wait to find out with bated breath.

The 'real' Kevin Rudd stood up last night at the Rooty Hill RSL and outperformed Tony Abbott on a question and answer format. Rudd came across as the more positive of the two with generally better answers to the audience questions than Abbott.
Pelican I'm can't follow your logic with Labor winning and Rudd losing his seat.
"Lots of good independents, Greens and minor party contenders in the Senate to keep the incumbents honest." I support competent independents being elected in the lower house but as Hasbeen said you can end up with an Italian or French type parliament. What we do need is a bit less adherence to the party line and more input into the public debate by Labor and Conservative members in general.
The Senate is vital as a house of review and the present balance is what is most effective in avoiding unmandated legislation, like "work choices" being introduced by the government of the day, because they can.
If Abbott wins the The Greens and others in the Senate have a responsibility to pass legislation for which the government has been given a mandate, even rubbish which gives $75,000 to millionaire baby makers, Abbott would have a mandate for that, and should not be opposed.
I am confident 3 years of Abbottism is just what Australia needs, if he lasts that long. After 3 bumpy years the people will "see" how good conservatives are in government. It will be the rejuvenation that the progressives and left side of politics need

<< Are you pair mad? >>

Haz, what’s mad about this…

1. Labor is more progressive than the Coalition. They’ve got a better longer-term outlook, while Abbott’s mob is basically hunkering down in the same old tried-and-failed short-term-focussed strategies.

2. Labor would be better off if Rudd wasn’t there. They’d have a better chance of extending their proactive policy platform into a sustainability-oriented one.

3. We’d all be better off with a Labor government that did this than with a mob of Coalition incompetents!

4. Even they didn’t do this, they’d still be better than the Coalition…. although only just!

5. Rudd absolutely does not deserve to be PM, due to his incredible stuff-up with border-protection, his increase in immigration as soon as he won power in 07 and other misdemeanours.

6. A few independents and minor party reps would be good in the mix, although not holding the balance of power.

Pelican,

" can you not see the dangers in concentration of media ownership and in a biased media." In this case absolutely not.

Newscorp has only a small fraction of the total media, and there are plenty of other papers with a large variety of "biases" and opinions, there are blogs, news letters, facebook, twitter etc, before even considering radio, TV etc.

Newscorp has a small number of very popular papers that supply 70% of newspaper readers largely because the reporting reflects the views of his readers. The investigative journalism, the wide variety of analysis and opinion pieces are not matched by any other. People buy the papers because they want to. The moment the papers become a purely political mouthpiece the readers will abandon them.

Whether you like it or not "Throw this mob out" is the sentiment of the majority of Australians.

Yes, SM, nothing like an avalanche of party political propaganda to help along the "opinion" of the masses.

No one can deny the venom delivered by the Murdoch media in this election.....it's so blatant and in yer face.

You might think that's good for democracy, but some us are aware of other instances in other countries where this sort of garbage was the thin end of the wedge.

Yes, Poirot, nothing like an avalanche of party political propaganda to help along the "opinion" of the masses.

No one can deny the venom delivered by the ABC media in this election.....it's so blatant and in yer face. Not to include the avalanche of negative (and factually incorrect) Labor advertising.

You might think that's good for democracy, but some us are aware of other instances in other socialist countries where this sort of garbage was the thin end of the wedge.

Re Rooty Hill;
I thought the best line of the night was from Tony Abbott;

"If you want a personal opinion of myself, ask my collegues.
If you want a personal opinion of Kevin Rudd ask his collegues."

Interesting.

Sorry, SM, the ABC has been flogging Abbott and the Libs with a wet lettuce leaf - if anything.

"Nothing" compared to Murdoch's outright and unequivocal bias.

Anything dodgy concerning the Libs has been pretty much ignored by all MSM...and if MSM abd the ABC do get around to inquiring, it's only tacked on as an afterthought...like Brough's dodgy actions, etc.

(Pull the other one, it's got bells on it)

seen the ABC is so bias towards the Libs, no Labour tragic will complain about any cuts or sales. Now that both sides agree it is bias lets be rid of it.

Poirot, Do not concern yourself with the Murdock fish wrapper The Daily Telegraph. and its attacks on Labor, Old Rupes is rather upset with Labor, something to with him being cut out of the action with broadband and his cable network. Besides most readers of his rubbish papers would not vote Labor regardless. Its been well documented what kind of person Murdock is, and its not very nice to say the least.

P,

Firstly, when Newscorp was advocating a change to labor, I never heard one peep from any of the left whingers on this or any other site. Quite the contrary, the right to advocacy by the press was supported actively. Now that the advocacy has changed, suddenly it is the "hate media" and the left tries to impose censorship.

A privately owned newspaper, blog etc has perfectly the right to advocate for change. It has the responsibility to report the facts accurately, but opinion should never be silenced.

The ABC however, has never deviated from left of center, and has continually run uncritically the government line on climate change, etc even when there compelling evidence the contrary. The "media watch program where the libs and newscorp were continuously bagged is a prime example.

So princess, take the plank out of your eye, take a good look at the whole issue before you disappear in a puff of hypocrisy.

M,

I don't recall Murdoch indulging himself in 2007 anywhere near the likes of what he's unleashed against Labor in this campaign.

It's so blatant, it's almost ridiculous to talk about democracy and this campaign in the same breath.

I'd like to see the ABC come out with the Hogan's Hero garbage or some such dodgy high-jinks.

There is no comparison between what Murdoch is doing and the ABC's leanings.

I'd love to see how you'd accept it if Murdoch was slopping his "ethics" all over the Coalition.

You'd be running around in a right tizz and shouting to the rooftops.

P,

The Hogan's hero outfit was not an election issue, rather a response to the crude attempt to impose censorship. That was entirely justified.

Newscorp as a privately has no ethical imperative not to refrain from advocacy, the ABC as a solely publicly owned and funded organisation does, and has that in its constitution. It fails miserably in this regard. On its talk shows it guest are at least 2:1 ratio left wing to conservative, and often devoid of any conservative voice.

Its reporting continually runs the labor party line, and any pretense of balance is ignored.

in 17 minutes rudd will take on..all comers

Online
Ask Prime Minister Kevin Rudd Anything On Reddit From 6pm

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/08/ask-prime-minister-kevin-rudd-anything-on-reddit-from-6pm/

Paul
My logic is a Labor win but Rudd not as PM. That is, he does not win his own seat but another leader is put in his place. I would imagine that would be Albanese in the short or long term given he is Deputy.

SM
I dispute the majority want to "vote this mob out" given recent polling. Even if it were true, is it the media's role to tell us how to vote. Their role is to provide facts on policies and investigative reporting to keep politics honest. How do you know what the majority wants?

Frankly I think there is much room for democratic reform and more participatory democracy but I am purely speaking as things are for the here and now.

Hasbeen
There is much written about the supposed flaws in a minority government. But we know what happens when one side wins majority in both Senate and LH. We get workchoices and other potential policies that were not presented to the electorate before the election. One LNP candidate said today that the LNP policies on workplace would only be on the table after the election. What the heck? The candidate may have expressed herself poorly but the inference is clear - IR to be reviewed after the election. IR reform is a good idea but it has to be balanced between employer and employee rights and LNP has history of bowing to big business. Which is why political donations should be far more scrutinised and reformed to ensure nobody can 'buy' a policy position.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-29/workchoices-sudmalis/4920352

Tony Abbott showed ‘imself to be a screwey dill at Rooty Hill!!

Hwaa hwa hwa !¡!

Pelican both Oz & the Labor party would perhaps not be in the deep doo doo we are now, if they had really won the election. I don't think that is true, but it may be.

Just perhaps Gillard is not a pathological liar, & would have kept her promises, if she actually been in power. If she had, we would have an entirely different position now. I liked a number of her policies, but you can't vote for someone who is a proven liar.

We all know Rudd is a pathological liar, his whole construction of what he wants to appear is a lie. He makes Gillard look like a paragon of virtue.

However, if we elect a government, we have given them a mandate to carry out their policies, & I most definitely want them to do just that. The last thing I want is a bunch of clowns, like the Greens, & the Democrats before them, second guessing the elected government, & preventing them carrying out their policies. To have independents of really unknown value in the mix is stupidity incarnate.

You complain about workchoices, but it was a perfect example of good government. Those in power went too far, & got chucked out. That is how it should work. Not have a bunch of ratbags, with only 10% support controlling policy, & perhaps saving that government.

It is a pity that we have only one party any thinking person could entrust with our government.

Unfortunately I expect when the Libs get a look at the real situation of our finances, they will have to break promises, & depending how they do that could make them hard to trust in future.

"......when the Libs get a look at the real situation of our finances..."

That's already plain, Hasbeen, as Treasury has revealed all. More is the question of whether we get to look at the Libs "real situation" instead of the absolute bulldust we're getting and the avoidance of Treasury's scrutiny. Abbott was a disgrace at Rooty Hill and it saddens me greatly that this stage-managed, Murdoch-manipulated muppet appears likely to be our next PM.

IYGYKHN. Is it yet too late for Malcolm?

You bet it is. Turnbull got a shot & stuffed it up. He is too thick for any real job.

As a Rudd clone, & not a very good one, he would spell the death of the Libs.

Most people I know who will give Abbott would never vote for Turnbull.

Well,

We have just seen fraudulent or crooked Kevin, with the claim of a $10bn black hole in the coalition's costings being exposed as a fraud by Treasury. Or is this another beat up by the Australian and Fairfax papers?

"Treasury has been subjected to a lot of ridicule and criticism from the Coalition over costings and budget forecasts. But last night Treasury head Martin Parkinson and David Tune at the Department of Finance signaled a line had been crossed.

Two of the nation's most senior public servants had been placed in an impossible position by Labor's willful misuse of confidential briefings. They had to act. Stepping out from behind the normal veil of government, Parkinson and Tune did precisely what strong public servants should do in the caretaker period - calling out Labor's misrepresentation for what it was.

Kevin Rudd now faces the biggest crisis of the election campaign - on an issue of truthfulness, trust and economic competence - after Treasury, Finance and the Parliamentary Budget Office exposed the government's politically fraudulent and desperate attempt to frame Tony Abbott for a "$10 billion fraud". "

This is clear proof that Rudd is unfit to govern, and Chris Bowen and Penny Wrong, who participated in this fraud, are unfit to work with Treasury and Finance.

shadow..the costings..issue is very revealing
if you..*know..it will be an issue..[ie hidden/believable numbers]
naturally..you get the best opinion..you can..and lab did

the numbers used..are indisputable..depending upon..whether you..use the predictions..or the actual*..income received[the treasury corection'....only points that out][they were a best guess..in lue of the lib..costing/numbers...both sides are playing games.

BUT more importantly..these servile beurocrats..seem to give-out divergent..numbers[that seemingly always are wrong..for some reason]..

lets not forget..they..[the beuro/rock-rats..may just have their own..*adgendas..[their own reasons for spinning the number's]

regardless..we know..the libs didnt give their numbers
we know why..but thats why lab made the best guess[and got shafted..]

or maybe set up..by their servants..
WHOS SHOULD CLEARLY HAVE STATED..the parameters..
upon which..their best guess..was based on..

either..ALWAYS..using both*..of the POSSIBLE rubbery numberings..OR USING A CONSISTENT..but true number..

i would vote neither of the main parties
but we cant..so i feel..vote lib..in lower..lab in upper..cause their both rotten to the gore core.

liars/lackeys/layabouts and lazy..
the lot of em*

HERE$ IS WHAT SOME_one needs to do here

The WashPo..just went "full Snowden".

*Newspaper publishes America's ‘Black budget’ summary

http://wapo.st/17mcAxu

quote from
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/black-budget-summary-details-us-spy-networks-successes-failures-and-objectives/2013/08/29/7e57bb78-10ab-11e3-8cdd-bcdc09410972_story.html

“Our budgets are classified as they could provide insight for foreign intelligence services[[[read alp]..to discern our top national priorities, capabilities and sources and methods that allow us to obtain information to counter threats,” he said.

Among the notable revelations in the budget summary:

•Spending by the CIA has surged past that of every other spy agency, with $14.7 billion in requested funding for 2013. The figure vastly exceeds outside estimates and is nearly 50 percent above that of the National Security Agency, which conducts eavesdropping operations and has long been considered the behemoth of the community.

•The CIA and the NSA have begun aggressive new efforts to hack into foreign computer networks to steal information or sabotage enemy systems, embracing what the budget refers to as “offensive cyber-operations.”

•The NSA planned to investigate at least 4,000 possible insider threats in 2013, cases in which the agency suspected sensitive information may have been compromised by one of its own. The budget documents show that long before Snowden’s leaks, the U.S. intelligence community worried about “anomalous behavior” by personnel with access to highly classified material.

•U.S. intelligence officials take an active interest in foes as well as friends. Pakistan is described in detail as an “intractable target,” and counterintelligence operations “are strategically focused against [the] priority targets of China, Russia, Iran, Cuba and Israel.” The latter is a U.S. ally but has a history of espionage attempts against the United States.

Would be helpful to get some actual costings from the Coalition.

But aside from that....

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21584343-kevin-rudd-just-about-deserves-second-turn-lucky-no-more?fsrc=scn/tw_ec/lucky_no_more

"The choice between a man with a defective manifesto and one with a defective personality is not appealing—but Mr Rudd gets our vote...."

P,

So you chose the one with the defective manifesto and the personality defect?

As the coalition are releasing their policies, they are releasing their costings. If they release their final costings 24hrs before the election they will have exceeded anything that labor has done.

Notably Labor has yet to release their final costings or any of the analysis behind them.

....Labor has yet to release their final costings or any of the analysis behind them."

Treasury does that. http://electioncostings.gov.au/

Notably true is the LNP does not use Treasury but conjures up any figure that suits it under the imprimatur of three "prominent Australians"

The OTT squealing by the LNP today shows it's feeling the heat in its strategy of feeding the chooks all the way to the chopping block.

First we had the LNP's concocted confection of a "budget emergency" and now it's promising everything to everyone with a ditched commitment to surplus other than to say it will achieve it before Labor does. Now there's a promise that requires cuts, cuts and cuts!

All the LNP has done is wreak fear for three years, in cahoots with Murdoch, scaring the electorate with comparisons of Australia to Greece and Cyprus while enticing them from the front with undeliverable fiscal promises given foreseeable revenue restraints.

As a mark of respect to voters, may we please scrutinize the underlying assumptions costings and budgeting of the LNP before the election instead of being subjected to its pea'n'thimble tricks? Why won't it go to the Parliamentary Budget Office if it has all this worked out and nothing to hide? Duh, I wonder.

The LNP must reckon the election is in the bag but there is something in the air in these last days and perhaps the bookies have been overzealous in their early payouts, which may well just have itself been an inexpensive investment in influencing voters. Well, at least I am hoping so!

LF,

Have you even read the link you posted? All it has is the costings of a few minor labor promises with no analysis, no assumptions, and no bottom line.

Nice try but no cigar.

After the treasury officials essentially said that KRudd, Bowen and Wong were lying, none of these three stooges have any credibility.

SM,

"The Economist" says:

Mr Abbott = defective manifesto.

"The choice between a man with a defective manifesto and one with a defective personality is not appealing—but Mr Rudd gets our vote, largely because of Labor’s decent record. With deficits approaching, his numbers look more likely to add up than Mr Abbott’s....."

(Fairly straight forward:)

because..i..trust
kevs minders ARE WATCHING

there have been some interesting..developments david

as you..your lot..think to know*

<<A reporter with Israel’s most widely read newspaper..has been told by defense establishment officials..that a US-led attack on Syria will begin on Saturday..and end when Barack Obama meets Vladimir Putin on Wednesday.>>

i trust your..both wrong

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5984#170948

i trust..it ends here...

get it?

HOW COME ..the alternate pm
isnt being deluged..with the same INTERNATIONAL..questions..as the current pm..

cause thats his weakness

yet..in 8 days
HE WILL BE PM..*!*

and look..like a fool..**!**

cause the media never TESTED him..!
nor asked him..what he is going to do?

fool me once,,shame on you
fool me twice..shame on..*me

Labor had released costings of nearly 50 polices since its economic statement in early August, keeping to the Charter of Budget Honesty. Look at the website to see how many the LNP has lodged.

The LNP says it has the marvelous and magical things promised to all and sundry fully budgeted and costed, but refuses to reveal it to any official scrutiny despite saying it would do so. It should spare us its hubris over Labor's attempt to out it over this and to make it accountable.

The Parliamentary Budget Office said it was inappropriate to imply that the PBO has costed LNP policy. Fine, but then Abbott says this is an implicit statement that LNP costings are accurate, misrepresenting the PBO himself to pull the wool over electors eyes.

One week to go.

"his (Dudd's) numbers look more likely to add up than Mr Abbott’s"

Considering that Labor has yet to produce year end results that come anywhere near the budget, I would comfortably say that was a particularly stupid or partisan statement.

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2013/08/30/1226707/809074-130831-bill-leak-gallery.jpg

As for Dudd's collection of thought bubbles that make up its manefesto, you would have to be daft to think it was coherent. Many are rehashed policies from 2007 which were never delivered.

As for Dudd's $10bn fraud that he tried to pull on the voters, he no longer has any credibility on costings or anything else.

Luciferase,

"The Parliamentary Budget Office said it was inappropriate to imply that the PBO has costed LNP policy. Fine, but then Abbott says this is an implicit statement that LNP costings are accurate, misrepresenting the PBO himself to pull the wool over electors eyes."

Precisely!

SM,

The Economist says:

".....but Mr Rudd gets our vote, largely because of Labor’s decent record...."

That's ".....because of Labor's decent record...."

i have NEVER
seen ANYONE..as HAPPY..as kevin
in his concession speech..*

he is so happy..
*to have avoided..the upcoming debacle in syria!

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5984&page=0

If he did one thing well, it was the delivery of that speech!

The 'real' Kevin Rudd has indeed returned,
blithely stepping aside to give someone else a 'fair go'
- at getting the Labor 'ship' back on course.

(Had a job to do folks; and now it's done; didn't turn out as intended, but gave it a good shot, don't ya know; see ya.)

Falling on his sword; or just slipping quietly into the wings?
(Nothing like getting back on the horse after a fall, is there
- or is that just what the 'lackeys' are supposed to do?)

Cheers, Kev; and the best of 'British' to ya.

(I'm looking forward to a Coalition majority in both houses.
Then we'll see some 'real' action! Hold on to your gussets Neddy.)

The Libs and Nats will now send Australia into recession.

The boats will keep coming.

Unemployment will rise.

We will continue to have deficit after deficit.

Anti employee legislation will be instigated.

They will NOT be able to reverse carbon pricing (because of the senate).

They will say our situation is "perilous", and increase the GST despite promising the opposite.

Tony, Joe and Christopher will instigate social change legislation to reflect "their" religious beliefs.

Australia will be returned to the 1950s.

Pjack, I agree with every thing you said except should that be 1850's not 1950's. I was pleased with the result. 3 years of Abbottism is just what Australia needs at the moment. Abbott did say something about a suppository during the election, here it comes. Wonderful to see Adam Banbt retain his seat. Watching the Senate result .

Pjerk,

So good to see you back so that I could rub your nose in your stupid predictions. Remember crowing about how labor was going to thrash the libs?

From now on we can take your predictions as an indicator that exactly the opposite will occur.

Paul,

Good to see that the greens will not have the balance of power in the senate and that they polled only marginally better than Clive Palmer.

SM as long as Abbott does not have a majority in the Senate, we lost nothing AB crushed Labor in Melbourne. I would like Adam 2 take on the party leadership. There is no escaping the fact Like in NSW Labor. Rudd was in a race to the bottom and the ALP has hit it, rock bottom. Clive spent a heap of money, he can afford it. Bob was a bit disappointing in the Deep Deep North, must be a commie or some such thing. Will comrade Belly return and cry over the dead body?

kevin..knew this..[cause..i..told/him]
that's why..he is so happy..for tony

when*..our mossad/controlled asio..dont inform tony..of the real truth..either

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15408&page=0

recall..john kerry
visited israel..mant times..these ..ast few weeks
he has been..mind programed..by the mossad [as witnessed..by
about how he was..talking..peace..in*..palestein..one minute]..the next making up lies to kill syria and begin armogeddon
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/06/john-kerry-congress-syria_n_3881200.html
much like you ..feign to seek peace in palistein..
yet befriend instantly..your presumed nemisis..lol..yet another..faulse peace maker[like kerry?]
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/news/tell-john-kerry-world-says-no-to-war-on-syria

i..have none i hate..
none i fear..none i despise[how can i..
to despise any..is to despise the good/god sustaining its living

anyhow..you must be/in shock..but..your ma$ters arnt.
we need vile..so we can ALL*..can realise..our own greatness..by ending it..

[yet never allowing..its learning*..to be forgotten
thus for this..'his people'..have a special capability..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD0pnfmdlC8#t=474

that once they see..
the truth=peace love grace and mercy..
this..may just lead us..ALL..to the promised..[contracted]..1000..years of peace]
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15257&page=0
the easy way..
http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/dont-act-like-animals-abroad-new-poster-exhibit-opens-in-tel-aviv-in-bid-to-raise-awareness-to-israeli-tourists-behavior/
http://investmentwatchblog.com/12-year-old-girl-tells-the-people-the-truth-about-rothschild-corrupt-bankers-and-economy/
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-07/high-level-us-intelligence-officers-syrian-government-didn%E2%80%99t-launch-chemical-

or the hard way
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/09/10-signs-global-elite-are-losing-control.html
http://investmentwatchblog.com/senator-john-songbird-mccain-guarantees-russia-and-china-will-not-retaliate-a-u-s-syria-strike-basically-says-they-dont-have-the-balls-video/
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/SullivanVUSA.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCqj0OvlJgo

anyhow..david..your avoidence concernes me
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-and-defense/1.545661

lets back to basics..KEV/carr both gone*
palistein* issue silenced...

now..what about sharon?
and the writing..being..on the wall?
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/09/07/france-backs-off-support-for-syrian-strike.html?comp=7000023435700&rank=3

WHERE..are my PROMISED*..9 good things?
i am hearing.. too many vile things

http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/nearly-one-sixth-of-population-on-food-stamps/66683/
http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/national-security-versus-food-insecurity-one-in-seven-hungry-in-america-as-obama-prepares-for-syrian-war/66670/

What Nuclear War Would Look Like -
Obama and the plan for World War 3 - Best documentary film 2013
http://xrepublic.tv/node/5255
http://investmentwatchblog.com/record-90473000-not-in-labor-force-so-that-would-put-the-unemployment-rate-at-what-posts-say-from-35-to-40-wtf/

http://intellihub.com/2013/09/06/israel-limited-strike-syria-game/

http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/the-conflict-in-syria-and-global-resistance-why-humanity-will-prevail/66699/

http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/as-tech-companies-create-alibis-experts-warn-nsa-harms-are-irreparable/66703/
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130905/15531224420/nsa-gchq-admit-that-enemy-is-public.shtml
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-sends-warship-special-cargo-syria-102835383.html

Ladies and Gentlemen, are we are on the brink of nuclear war.
http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/diabolical-chemical-weapons-intelligence-operation-killing-syrian-civilians-and-blaming-it-on-the-enemy/66690/

when..Will WWIII commence?
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15408&page=0
“The Jewish State”—What It Really Means
and Why the Rest of the World Should be Terrified at the mere mention of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9_qyLALPyCk

Israel is desperate..not only for war
but to prove..*they still control the US Congress
even in the face of growing anger from the American voters.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5984&page=0

Now we are hearing the House vote may be two weeks away,
http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/shoutcast/shoutcast.html
giving AIPAC plenty of time to work/bribe/blackmail members of Congress
http://bit.ly/158p6ka

to launch a war the American people
*overwhelmingly do not approve of.

No doubt they are hoping that over the next two weeks,
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/09/is-fall-coming.html
public outcry over the war will fade away,
http://www.worldcrunch.com/world-affairs/not-just-russia-italy-other-europeans-sold-plenty-of-weapons-to-syria/arms-syria-italy-weapons-embargo/c1s13307/

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/mccain-obama-syria-impeach/2013/09/06/id/524327?s=al&promo_code=14CC5-1

http://intellihub.com/2013/09/06/u-s-navy-destroyers-air-force-b-2-b-52-bombers-set/

http://www.aipac.org/en/about/contact-us

http://xrepublic.tv/node/5254

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/news/tell-john-kerry-world-says-no-to-war-on-syria

SM,

"Pjerk"

It's just occurred to me that you really do represent the epitome of the crass puerile mentality that just got elected.

Your little boy names (which I'm sure you consider cutting-edge wit) are about as sophisticated as you get around here.

Saltpetre,

"(I'm looking forward to a Coalition majority in both houses."

Ha, ha.....I'm afraid the LNP are going to have to brush up on their negotiating skills there. Should be a hoot watching these guys actually trying to pretend they're competent.

The fun is only just beginning!

lol
the fun..is only..THE..beginning

iwrote earlier

if belly wasnt busy..
he would be here..beginning a new thread

WHAT..would belly ASK?
thats the topic*

[i will have..
my say [reply]..now

so..the thread can run its course

""dear belly
you did just great mate

but
kevin..is gone..but mate*

WHERE this all went wrong..was
when..bob..didnt give it..to paul

so i rekon..[now THE PEOPLE..can vote 50%]?
*let the people*..correct where we* all..went wrong..!

[do it..the cam;bell../..new-man..*way]
you know..elect as opposition leader..
someone..not sitting *in parelement

elect..*as opposition LEADER..paul..keating

[an outsider..yet the real..DESERVING*..
CHOSEN..elder/statesman..*opposition..*LEADER*]

recall..how at question time..[STANDING orders..are SUSS-pended]

imagine the shock..when caucus pays honor due
and at first questiontime..paul*..asks the first question

can the prime minster explain..now..blah/blah
of corse paul..agrees HE will resign..a few nonths prior the next election..or at say xmass/this or next year[to allow the PARTY meembers..TIME to vote..on the next opp/lead

and WHEN..paul cant sit..
then on his right hand sits..*the elbow*

the people..will..see the wisdom.
we must..[ok you must]..rebuild...from where the rot started

except bill/hayden is too old
bob has had his glory..[but could extend it by putting up the idea*]

anyhow...it takes time to rebuild
so ELDER*..paul/keating..come on down
in honorarium opposition[rebuild ]leader

P,

To see your school marmish hissy fit is reward in itself. The complete absence of any admonishment from you when a left whinger does the same shows me that you really do represent the epitome of the crass hypocrisy and dullness that just got thrashed.

The prime joy is seeing the greens and labor primary votes sinking to levels not seen in a decade.

I am sure that Abbott will be perfectly capable of negotiating with the independents who hold the balance of power, but is perfectly prepared to go DD. The Libs have retained a hefty war chest just for this, and I doubt Labor and the greens have much left to fight another election campaign.

SM,

Ho,ho,ho...

The entertainment awaits us.

(and by that, I'm not referring to your crappy schoolboy "wit")

Well thank god Rudd is gone, thank god.

What a pity he doesn't have the decency to just piss off & let us forget the stupid mistake the country made in electing him in the first place.

Dear Hasbeen,

Kevin Rudd has not gone.
And therein may lie the problem.
He did not get kicked out of his electorate
as John Howard did.
He won his seat in Griffith and he'll be back on
the back-bench representing his electorate.
It would have been better had he lost his seat
and disappeared from the scene giving his party
a chance to re-group. Instead, he's going to be sticking around -
which is unfortunate for Labor.
How this will affect the future of the Labor Party
and its new leadership?
Only time will tell.
Which Labor leader will be strong enough to stand up to
Mr Rudd in six months time - when Mr Rudd may again be
tempted to go back to his old habits?

cont'd ...

Does anyone know if Sophie Mirabella has retained
or lost her seat of Indi?

I think that Hawke and Richardson summed it all up beautifully last night, when they mentioned that this election was less a question of the opposition winning, but it was for labor to lose, which they did. It was also pointed out that they did not deserve to win.

Poirot, of course its a circus, you should know that by now. Hopefully we will now have a Minister for Agriculture who actually knows something about agriculture and is not just a union hack. So things are looking up for farming!

Yabs,

Re: your Minister of Agriculture...lets hope it's not the "sex appeal" lady from Lindsay

(you know....the one who blames Sydney's traffic crush on boat people)

: )

Oops Poirot, the libs won and not the greens :) Personally I'd like to see Chris Back from WA, but it will probably be somebody from the East, who is a lot better than Sarah Hanson Young :)

Yabby,

"Oops Poirot, the libs won and not the greens :)"

Yup..... get a load of this.

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2013/08/13/1226696/438343-130813-scott.jpg

She's all right, ya reckon!

(Chortle)

Now now Poirot, one female bitching about how another female looks, should be below you and I expect more from you than that. You are meant to age gracefully :)

Fact is if dreamers like Sarah Hanson Young had any say, we would indeed have all sorts of traffic problems from too many refugees, so the lady made a valid point. The greens still can't get it into their minds that Australia cannot save the world. We need thinking politicians, not those who are emotionally engulfed.

" We need thinking politicians,"

Gawd....you do realise that the LNP doesn't "think".

It takes orders.

Poirot, "Yup..... get a load of this.
..
She's all right, ya reckon!"

It is very revealing and sad that you make such spiteful, disgusting remarks about women. As if people can do anything about how they were born. As is the nature of politics, an unkind photo was selected for the cat-callers like you. Any reasonable, well-adjusted person would see that immediately. But even so, where do you get off expecting women to shine in every frame?

What a window into how your mind really works.

What a contrast with your past obvious BS concerns about 'sexism' and 'misogyny'.

You consistently prove that psychologists are right to say that in times of stress people revert to type. You don't really like women very much do you?

What a foolish and catty Old Tin of Fruit you can be.

otb,

"It is very revealing and sad that you make such spiteful, disgusting remarks about women...."

Everybody on alert....otb thinks he's found another trouser leg to latch on to.

I expect he'll bang on for several more pages yet, before I finally shake him off

"What a window into how your mind really works."

"What a foolish and catty Old Tin of Fruit you can be."

Here he goes - obviously thinks he onto soemthing. He loiks yapping and growling and representing himself as a defender of women...

Shame about his penchant to zero in on women around here to put the boot in. (nasty little habit, he's got there)

Okay mate, your shot next.

: )

*Gawd....you do realise that the LNP doesn't "think".

It takes orders.*

Gawd Poirot, so they actually listen to farmers when it comes to agricultural policy, rather than their union mates or the Greens.

Shock horror!

You know, I think Rudd expects to be drafted back into Labor leadership. I think that incredible defeat concession speech sounded more like an election speech. I know the ABC loved it, but I couldn't believe the commercials let it go on &on & on. I turned off for the night.

Surely some time soon the advertisers are going to demand NO RUDD on anything they pay for. The audience drops by 30% or more at the sight of him.

That incredible ego not only believes he should be leader, he expects to be asked to stay on.

If the lefties have even half a brain, not only will they give him nothing, but will "send him to Coventry", making his position intolerable.

We will know very shortly if Labor are worth their salt. If they don't get rid of this disgusting bit of garbage, they deserve to sink into the mire of their own creation.

Yabby,

" so they actually listen to farmers when it comes to agricultural policy...."

I was referring to Murdoch and the IPA.

Poirot, "Yup..... get a load of this.
..
She's all right, ya reckon!"

I can't imagine any woman even contemplating saying something like that about another woman. It just does not fit.

You really need to withdraw that offensive comment, apologise and make a personal explanation.

I just had a flash of inspiration (and a good chuckle in consequence):
Is't possible this election outcome was preordained (in respect of the savage swing against Rudd/Labor and the Greens), not for the most obvious reasons which come to mind, but because of his/their unequivocal support for gay marriage?
This evokes the prospect of a 'Higher Authority' moving in mysterious ways to urge the good flock to punish such imprudence (or impudence)?
At last - a proof for the existence of God??
(And that He/She is on the 'right' ('Right') side?)

Dear Foxy,

I'm disappointed that you have such little faith in the espoused fearless leader (and proclaimed saviour) of the Labor cause:

>He won his seat in Griffith and he'll be back on
the back-bench representing his electorate.
It would have been better had he lost his seat
and disappeared from the scene giving his party
a chance to re-group.<

<Which Labor leader will be strong enough to stand up to
Mr Rudd in six months time - when Mr Rudd may again be
tempted to go back to his old habits?<

So, since his dethroning in 2009, Rudd has remained forever as a potential 'spoiler'? (And only to be re-activated in times of histrionic panic?)

Not to worry Foxy, I'm just messin' with ya; your point is well taken.
As Poirot has elucidated: 'The fun is only just beginning'!
(And what fun it will be!)
In words of a previous 'sage', "Bring it on!"

I think it's good Rudd will still be around to deflect some of the vile bile that is aimed by the right at anybody with the temerity to lead Labor.

Luciferase,

Will that be after Rudd has served as the whipping boy for leadership hopefuls like Tanya Plibersek?

Dear Poirot,

Thanks for making me laugh out loud.
Great stuff!

Dear Saltpetre,

It's still early days, the election's barely
over and we've yet to see what happens next.

The Economist has pointed out that:
Mr Abbott's big test will be to adapt his combative
style to the serious business of government.
It's one thing to be in Opposition, and quite another
facing massive problems, and having to govern the country.

Mr Abbott has already ditched an earlier boast that he
would return the budget to surplus in his first-term.

Abolishing the carbon tax and other pledges that he's
made may well face challenges in the Senate.
Mr Abbott told the Australian Financial Review that there
will be "qualitative differences in the way things happen
in Canberra." What those differences
are remains to be seen.

onthebeach,

Stop frothing with excitement at cornering another woman on OLO.

My comment...."She's all right, ya reckon!"....was accompanying this:

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2013/08/13/1226696/438343-130813-scott.jpg

....and was me having a humorous dig at Abbott's crass "sex appeal" comment. It was about his attitude, not her...

(sorry, I know that's not gonna suit your line of attack)

You know humour?

So It wasn't me "....saying something like that about another woman....". It was me noting Abbott's attitude to women.

(I expect you'll hang about on this for a while, I mean here's Poirot, and otb decides he's gonna put on his faux outrage and chase her up and down this thread for a bit - coz he likes doing that with women on OLO...doesn't usually give the same treatment to men)

OTB,

>I can't imagine any woman even contemplating saying something like that about another woman. It just does not fit.<

With respect, don't you realize that, when the need arises (or the occasion fits), women will always be tougher on other women than a man would ever be foolish enough to be?
It's 'in their DNA', don't you know? (And it's their right.)

The female of the species will always remain an uneasy collage of compassion/empathy and stern retribution, or so it would seem.
'Hell hath no Fury ...'
Best not to get between a Mother and her 'cubs' (or her pet project).

One is often best to let sleeping dogs lie (if you want to keep your skin, or your pride, intact).

On thread: Kevin isn't brilliant as a chef, diplomat, statesman, leader, or politician. So, where to from here?
(President of the UNHCR?)

Saltpetre,

It is not the attack that matters, nor Poirot's obvious hypocrisy.

It is that Old Tin of Fruit has attacked the woman's sexuality that makes it interesting.

Not usual for a woman to target in another woman at all - unacceptable and impermissible one would have thought.

Thanks, Foxy,

It is early days, and when I get over this initial euphoria I am hoping to get back to my usual contemplative, and hopefully sane, self.

The real work begins; and it's good to see Tony getting straight down to tors.
I give no credence to doomster prophecies by some, of 'recession', employee disadvantage, punishment of welfare recipients or working families, or the 'mothballing' of the NBN, etc.
I expect slow and steady, and have high hopes that, in due course, the great majority of Aussies will be thankful for the reforms to be implemented, and genuinely understanding of the necessity for these.

We are the same resilient mob we were yesterday, and will still be tomorrow, and our future remains bright.
It remains only for all of us to similarly get down to tors, to bury the hatchet, and to pull together to realize that future.

Given a 'fair go', I am happy to place my trust in Tony to give all the rest of us a fair go as well.

OTB,

Poirot was apparently only taking opportunity to have yet another go at Tony's credibility. Loves to stir, does the indomitable Poirot.
(And, loves nothing better than a clash of swords.)
(Though spilt milk comes to mind in this particular instance.)

Dear Saltpetre,

As I've stated in the past ...

You Sir, are a class act, and I'm so
glad that you continue to post on this
forum.

Thank You.

Thank you Foxy, but you are too kind.

I very much also appreciate your thoughtful and honest postings.

I remain your humble servant.

The problem with the last labor government is that was always spin over substance. Dudd or Juliar would have a brainwave and come up with a great sounding plan, and rush to implement it with little to no research or consultation. It was only a matter of time before they were mugged by reality.

Turnbull tried to present himself as an alternative leader, while in reality no one was looking. Abbott realized that if the focus was on the government, it needed to see their mistakes. This he did extremely well, leaving the presentation of himself as alternative leader to the end, while Dudd went negative and shot himself in the foot.

Abbott outplayed labor at every step, and as a result is headed for at least 2 terms in government. All he needs to do is provide steady and competent government, while this generation remembers labor as bumbling and incompetent. A few commissions into BER, pink batts and the NBN should screw Labor's legacy for a generation.

I am looking forward to the next 3 years. I say it again, happy am I with the result. Like Epsom salts and caster oil are good for children a dose of Abbottism will do "wonders" for Australia.
SM will you remain shadow minister or will you become a minister in the Abbott cabinet?

I think this sums up Labor's dilemma well:

"There is a great trap for Labor in defeat. It may cling to the idea that an unpopular Abbott will come undone as PM and redeem Labor's position. How convenient that would be. This is tied to the related assumption that Labor's only defect in office was the Rudd-Gillard struggle. This is nonsense, yet pervasively cherished.

The risk for Labor in defeat is it repeats the post-1996 mistake and refuses proper reform that penetrates to its structure, policies and strategies. Bob Hawke and Graham Richardson have warned that Labor needs a sweeping re-think to confront the depth of its problems."

SM,

Can't put it better than Gittins.

"But surely the most disillusioning thing for Liberal true believers is the way five years of railing against Labor's utterly wasteful spending, never-ending budget deficits and soaring debt levels was simply cast aside over the course of a five-week campaign.

When, just before the campaign began, Labor was forced to reveal the deficit would be worse before we returned to surplus in another four years' time, the Libs proclaimed this a ''budget emergency''.

But then, just two days before polling day, they revealed their response to this emergency, which turned out to involve a net reduction in the cash deficit of just $6 billion over four years."

http://m.smh.com.au/business/big-change-in-party-little-in-policy-20130908-2te1h.html

.................

otb,

Saltpetre,

"It is not the attack that matters, nor Poirot's obvious hypocrisy.

It is that Old Tin of Fruit has attacked the woman's sexuality that makes it interesting.

Not usual for a woman to target in another woman at all - unacceptable and impermissible one would have thought."

Au contraire...you're a silly little otb - I'm sure Tony would have mentioned the Lindsay candidate's sexuality if the candidate had been a bloke (not)...pathetic

Here's us during the last Liberal govt, discussing over lunch the assets of the front bench.....

Sexuality - Liberal ladies style (thanks to Magda, Gina and Jane:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-uVms4RiyU

*I'm sure Tony would have mentioned the Lindsay candidate's sexuality if the candidate had been a bloke (not)...pathetic*

Gawd Poirot, its trivia. It does not matter!

The sad reality of the political circus is that the libs don't even need great candidates to beat the labor muppets which we have had to endure for 6 years, just be better than them, not hard to do.

People get the politicians which they deserve

The whole costings debate initiated by Labor was rampant hypocrisy by Labor. Until the first week of the election, Labor refused to release any financial documents from the government making accurate costings by the opposition impossible, (then labor failed to provide all of their costings).

The opposition was left with only days to try and put together a balanced policy framework and costings based on a snapshot of the balance sheet a week after the election announcement. What was released was a broad brush costing of Coalition costings, but did not include other measures that were off budget.

A return to budget will come from more than just costed policies, a commission of audit will raise plenty of opportunities other than firing people such as selling of non essential assets, expenditure cuts etc. In addition the intention to raise the revenue base will include, the scrapping of red tape and the carbon tax will encourage business by reducing their costs and improving their profitability.

The $6bn is just the starting point.

Yabby,

"Gawd Poirot, its trivia. It does not matter! "

Precisely...I was employing a bit of humour when I originally brought that up.

But you know how it is with otb. He got a bit frothy and excited when he saw an opportunity to "defend women's sexuality" with his faux outrage act.

......especially since it was a woman who brought it up (He finds it difficult to resist)

Now, if you don't mind, I'll just sit back and see what Peta Credlin has in store for us.

Ben Eltham summs up the costings debacle rather well:

"The Coalition's strategy was deceptively simple.
Tony Abbott focused on winning and he shaped every
tactic and bent all the Coalition's resources towards
that end. Where events, policies or colleagues intervened
in a way that might have threatened that victory Abbott
and his leadership team either side-stepped or co-opted
them.

The way the Coalition handled the potentially tricky issue of
policy costings is a good example. While the independent
media obsessed with the opacity of the Coalition's numbers
Abbott and his team stuck to the basics.

They knew that ordinary voters didn't really care about
costings. What they cared about is competence in government.
The key argument to win was precisely that of competence and
stability which Abbott and his team have relentlessly repeated
for years now. In that way they were able to delay their
final costings until 2 days before the election giving Labor
no ammunition to attack it."

Poirot,

You made a slip that you can't recover. You were vexed by the outcome of the election and as psychologists say, in the heat of the moment the real man behind the 'Poirot' nom de plume shone through.

What a silly Old Tin of Fruit you are. The Poirot nom de plume? That is too much LOL

Foxy, "Ben Eltham summs up.."

?! So what?

Dear Poirot,

otb really hasn't the faintest idea what the
heck is really going on.

otb,

No slip at all, "old fruit".

But since you bring up psychiatrists - I wonder what we should make of your beelines to non-issues posted on OLO "by women" so you can let off your faux outrage party sparklers.

...interesting case.

Fascinating to watch as you do it time and time again.

Foxy,

What do we make of the "onthebeach" nom de plume?

Too much time in the sun?

Poirot,

LOL You are a real boy aren't you? Not everyone's idea of a boy, but a boy nonetheless.

Your 'Poirot' tag is too precious.

I see you have developed an echo from another who is most aggrieved by the decision of the electorate. That is democracy.

Carry on, otb...

The hem of my trousers is getting a little frayed, and saturated with saliva, but still he holds fast.

Keep it coming - I'm taking notes.

(Fascinating!)

I am looking forward to the next 6 to 9 years under a stable and competent Liberal government, as it will probably take Aus that long to forget the rabble that is labor.

How nice for you, Shadow Minister.

While you have your feet up enjoying One Term Tony's term, you can wile away the hours thinking of more scintillatingly witty schoolkid names to plaster over the Opposition.

Don't let us down!

Ok parrot,

That I will do for Tony's 1st term.

What shall I do for his 2nd and 3rd?

I rest my case....

(Lol)

I'm afraid the brilliance of some of these last comments is lost on me :(

Now, to get back to topic, i.e. a sort of out-of-date "The 'real' Kevin is back", the reality is that he WAS back and now he's gone.

I sincerely hope that the Labor Party (which got my HoR vote, to no avail), can not only have a good look at itself but also at the changing nature of Australian economy and society, and the relationship between the three.

Forty and fifty years ago, I was working in factories and on an Aboriginal Community. Twenty years ago, I was running some Career Workshops for Aboriginal kids and I had to remind them and myself that the jobs that had been around twenty years before were now gone, computerised, superseded, shipped overseas, and a whole raft of new-type professional careers had opened up.

Similarly, the Labor Party has to realise that the old Anglo-Aussie mass-working-class hasn't really existed for decades, perhaps four or five decades. Workers with trades have become independent tradies and subbies, their kids have moved into the professions, and the actual working-class has become far more multi-ethnic. Well, it was already multi-ethnic when I started in the mid-sixties - sometimes I was the only Anglo even back then, apart from the supervisor and bosses. I learnt Greek back then, and can still talk to old ladies on the bus - good times :)

So does the Labor Party try to represent the progresssive wing of the professional classes, if there is such a thing, or leave that to the Greens ? Or do they try to prise the tradies and the ethnics away from the Liberal Party ? Or something else ?

Take for granted that, every generation, it's a different Australia, with a different role and clientele for each party, right or left. The party of Fisher and Watson and Scullin and Chifley - even of Whitlam - was then. What is now ?

Joe

I am really worried that now that Treasury is free to tell the true story of our finances, we are going to find the mess is much greater than we are even expecting.

I'm expecting some nasty stuff early next week.