http://origin.abc.net.au/news/items/200609/1734856.htm?southcoast
The Australian Farmers Fighting Fund has offered an undisclosed amount of financial assistance to the company because it is concerned a successful prosecution would threaten the live export industry.

Tim D'Arcy, from the Pastoralists and Graziers Association,

>

OPEN LETTER TO WA FARMERS and Tim D`Arcy.

Dear Mr D`Arcy I am very concerned after speaking to you by telephone that you have not disclosed to WA Farmers the offer From HKM Halal Kind Meats.

It is unfair to Farmers not to inform them of our company`s offer as an alternative market for them. It is also unfair to us.

I have requested on "many occasions" this information be made known to Australian Farmers.


This is not only unfair to Farmers but unfair to others in the Meat Industry by not putting "ALL OFFERS" On The Table.


Well the Gloves are off now.
If you are a Farmer please see
HKM
http://www.halakindmeats.com/

This is a simple proposal to give you a far better price for your stock.
You will still be dealing with buyers in the ME- just "direct" from Farmers Gate to ME.

We will be in WA in the next few weeks to deliver the message that some dont want you to know about.
Its a whole new Ball Game in Australia and its ALL the Farmers Way
'As it Should be."
Keep your money in your pockets until you look at this!
Its Fair Go For Farmers year!

from the rural news
http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/stories/s1096508.htm

A group of West Australian producers has formed a joint venture with Malaysia, to supply the world with halal meat products.

The Wheatbelt Growers Co-operative from Dowerin has signed an agreement with the Perak State Development Corporation to provide 100,000 sheep and 16,000 cattle each year.

Perak wants to become the world distributor of halal food to Muslim countries, with a potential market of 300 billion people.

Chief Minister Tajol Rosli says that'll provide a valuable alternative for Australia's live export trade.

"As it is now, halal food from Malaysia is recognized throughout the world

Wendy, we've been over all this stuff before. Perhaps Tim
and Co just don't find your organisation very credible.

You can rant and rave all you want on OLO, but actions
speak louder then words. The Saudis have put their money
on the table, right now, in forward contracts for
November. They want a million Hajj lambs, long tail
so no mulesing, testicles and all, 35kg liveweight,
ie about 12 kg carcass weight, if that for merinos.
Price to the farmer is 53-60$.

I've got a couple of hundred here that I'm thinking
of signing a contract for. Put your money on the
table, as long as its as good or better then the
Saudi offer, and you can have them.

If you've got no money, well its all hot air.
Every week there are stock sales in Midland and
Katanning. There are farmers there selling. You are
free to talk to them, free to buy their livestock.

Thats the reality. The rest is a waste of time,
quite frankly. Tim D'Arcy would be aware of that.

I tend to agree with yabby. If “Perak wants to become the world distributor of halal food to Muslim countries” whats stopping them. They’re not relying on you to do their buying for them are they? Waving the ‘halalkindmeats’ flag all over the place doesn’t seem to be achieving much except maybe aggravating a few people.

I will answer You both. I am not selling meat. We are putting a proposal to farmers.
I dont care if Tim likes the idea or not.
We just want to put it direct to farmers that are NOT ALREADY inloved with exports, plants or perhaps run a domestic operation with no idea how to obtain their Halal certfication and also the Government red tapes.

We are looking to open more abattoirs in Australia with our partners being Aussies.
Clearly if we do that we wont need to use the agent or middle man as much. Such as the shipping live export agents.
There is a lot of opposition to this as you would understand.
Ask yourself if thats fair.
We should all be free to put our offers to farmers direct on the table.

Now as Tim and others have "already " confirmed they have had calls from people interested in new plants here I cant see the problem with them meeting the farmers- Can you.
After all the farmers are free to say > no Sorry we are not interested and walk off.

Tim also said he found the idea a good one etc. So did the Chairman of Elders. Peter McGuaran and John Howard have expressed they find this idea very interesting in priciple.
What we need now is more farmers to be aware- nothing else
We have everything else under control.
There has been a great amount of work done in the last few years towards this.
More abattoirs will open and more meat will leave Australia chilled.
We have already re organised six.
It seems to me you dont understand the difference between what I am doing and how that is entiley different to just buying and re selling meat.
We are not middle men.
We are not interested in being middle men.


The fact you think there is nothing happening shows me your not as connected to this industry as you would like others to think.
We are making a big difference already.

paleif,
Me thinks thou protests too much. No farmer is likely to sell to the live export market if you are offering the same or a better price. Surely there are enough open markets around for you to satisfy current demand, and as your business grows it just becomes another major buyer in the system. All you have to do is be highest bidder on the day. Easy.

You don't need to write to umpteen different groups about your plans. By competeing successfully in the market farmers will seek you out. Actions speak louder than words.

Hello Rojo



You still have the wrong slant on this. I repeat I am not peddling a brand of meat. Not me personally. I am peddling a concept. A whole new ball game.

I want contact direct!with farms and plenty of them.

I want to talk to farmers and small and large exsisting and old abattoir owners.

I want to talk to Station holders and Elders within the aboriginal stations who run stock.

We will also have vegetable farms and produce cosmetics[ non Animal Tested]

I am also of course at the same time pushing for a National Australian Halal Certification. Austraia needs ONE accreditation for Halal. If any of you read the other threads you will see Nicky mentioned there was talk on ABC Radio yesterday about the different demands from different countries for Halal certifications.
It is this I am also very interested in.

I want contact with Australian farmers. I want to offer to introduce them to people wanting all of those products and more overseas.
The farmers Federations only really need to put this service being offered up on their web sites so farmers can contact us.

I would have thought the people who take fees off farmers to help them might be really interested in any new ideas to help farmers.

Instead I find they are too busy being the bag men for collecting money farmers cant afford to run a cruelty case.

I protest in the strongest possible terms that the farmers Federations are blocking me from passing this information onto the farmers.
They ought to be right behind this. Its NOT up to the Farmers federation to decide who they will tell the farmers about and wont.
Farmers are capable of running their own farms if some people would stop giving them NO other Option BUT LIVE EXPORTS.

Rojo

Just by the way. I write because people read. People need to understand whats behind the live animal export trade.
They need it explained in a manner thats its very easy to follow because of the lies and proper ganda bull that has been spread over many years.
I have spoken to Ministers and their advisors for example that dont know the truth themselves.
I am very concerned about The Ministers of Australia on BOTH sides of politics that dont have a clue.
I recall for example calling Alaxanda Downers office years ago trying' to explain the Wesfarmers sale to AWB and my concern as to where some of the funds were going. Back then the staff didnt have a clue! about anything, nor the advisor.
I am still on about accreditations for a good reason. I know you dont get it but I cant help that.
Others will read it and pick up on it.
Others understand that its a threat to our country. We need to know where our funds are going and coming into Rojo.
WE have seen just one example of what going on with AWB but are you silly enough to think they were the only company paying transport fees?
You have no idea where I am coming from do you?
Thats fine, thats fine. No worries Rojo. You just stop reading my posts if you are bored or cant understand.
I will just keep on explaing to the Australian Public that Murdoch and Packer along with Bill Heffernan and - who can forget Amanda are just a FEW people with clear conflicts of interests when it comes to animal welfare.

Try going to a paper OWNED by a live animal exporter and say_ Excuse me but there is a ship stuck here in Australian Water with thousands of sheep onboard suffering in the heat.
See how far you get getting the story told.
WE Have

Rojo

By the way. I write because people read. People need to understand whats behind the live animal export trade.
They need it explained in a manner thats easy. I have spoken to Ministers and their advisors that dont know the truth themselves.
I am very concerned about The Ministers of Australia on BOTH sides of politics that dont have a clue.
I recall for example calling Alaxanda Downers office years ago trying' to explain the Wesfarmers sale to AWB and my concern as to where some of the funds were going. The staff didnt have a clue about anything, nor the advisor.
I am on about accreditations for a good reason. This is not farmers markets games. Others understand that its a threat to our country. We need to know where our funds are going and coming into Rojo.
WE have seen just one example of what going on with AWB but are you silly enough to think they were the only company paying transport fees
You have no idea where I am coming from do you.
Thats fine, thats fine. No worries Rojo. You just stop reading my posts if you are bored or cant understand.
I will just keep on explaing to the Australian Public that Murdoch and Packer along with Bill Heffernan and - who can forget Amanda are just a FEW people with clear conflicts of interests when it comes to animal welfare.
60 minutes was the result of a lady in Germany who had sent footage to Australia for over 20! years. She was originally a Minister but left the Church because of their refusal to acknowledge Gods creatures. She morgaged her home to pay to get footage.
Theres some more news you have never heard before.

Try going to a paper OWNED by a live animal exporter and say_ Excuse me but there is a ship stuck here in Australian Water with thousands of sheep onboard suffering in the heat.
See how far you get getting THAT story told.
WE Have- and its all on record for the enquiry.
You guess which one.?

It might help if you learned how to construct a post that is easy to read instead of rambling all over the place. Similarly, get yur facts right. Eg there is not a potential market of 300 billion people (per your first post). Dont exaggerate, or no one will listen.

Well Wendy, if you really think that WA farmers might be interested
in your ideas, do exactly what everyone else does, place an advert
in one or two of the WA farming papers and see what response you
get. The Countryman or Farm Weekly being the two.

All very simple really, no need for conspiracy theories.

paleif,
I seem to have a lot to get through.

Yes I do see your bigger picture, and I have always responded with that in mind. The principle is the same no matter the size of an individual buyer, or the number of buyers.
You cannot gain support on rhetoric. There's no point telling farmers how good it's all going to be if there aren't buyers putting it into practice on a reasonable scale. It's as simple as that.

I wasn't aware of special halal vegetable requirements. I'd be interested to know more.

Yes I read some of Nickys comments, and noticed your "little secret" in amongst them. I guess it is all a means to an end.

"Farmers are capable of running their own farms if some people would stop giving them NO other Option BUT LIVE EXPORTS".

By all means give them options. I won't stand in your way. I'm not sure why this would change their capability to run the farms.

post 2.
I find your conspiracy theories entertaining if nothing else. Granted I may not have your intellectual abilities, but I am thankful for what I have.
"Bored"- hardly
"Cant understand"- We all have our failings.

Post 3ish, Is it true the 60 minutes depicted animals that weren't actually Australian?

Yabby

Its going to take more than a few adds in a WA paper or any other paper.
I should not have to pay for adds when the farmers federation could put it up in their news articles.
Why cant they stick it on their web site for the farmers. Thats is! IF they really wanted to help the farmers.

I just dont have an extra thirty or fourty grand on top of pretty much funding this office myself for years.
RSPCA QLD help a bit but I pay for trips meeting and everyday costs.
Antje has been up her alomost three years and I fund that myself.


Conspiracy means to conspire. When Farmers Fedaration misinform the farmers telling them live exports are their ONLY answer- knowing full well its not I call that darn right dishonest.

You also keep going on about us having acheived anything in all this time. You assume too much.
Who do you think kicked off the New Halal. I have told you personally by phone we started another one in WA.

I called Bill DArcy as you suggested and also since have spoken with another couple of people there.
fyi Plenty! of Muslim People HAVE MADE PLENTY OF ENQUIRES OVER MANY YEARS To Buy into Halal abattoirs in Australia.

They also! have asked to meet with the farmers to the Farmers Federations and othders but ALWAYS get shoved off back to the live exporters.

Listen Yabby this whole Industry is reeking with lies desception and conspiracys.

So what. You get that in the meat industry.
Doesnt mean I dont have the REAL answer for Australian Farmers. If the farmers take out the middle man they are laughing!

Wendy, I don't blame FF of PGA for not putting your info on their
website, as that would imply some kind of endorsement. I doubt if
many farmers read their websites anyhow. I've never even checked
them out, as anything useful appears in the farming press.

I didn't tell you to ring anyone in particular, simply pointed out
that the FF and PGA represent farmers in WA. However if they don't
think that you or your ideas are credible, then thats their decision.

I certainly don't think that your ideas are credible or that in
the short term there are alternatives to live exports. The meatworks
of today, can't even cope with the 4 million sheep that they
are trying to process now. Forget the 3 million live exports.
Then we have the issue of price of course.

Fact is, with the high costs we have here it often costs more
to send an animal down a meat chain, then what that animal is
worth to the farmer. Companies then outbid each other to send
that meat to the third world, ever cheaper. Farmers are the
ultimate losers.

Technology and volumes can solve some of the high costs. Thats
why I have always pushed for more high tech, low labour plants
to be built in WA. Saudis, Malaysians, anyone is free to build
them. But given that WA is booming in resources and that there
are is no spare labour around, even staff to build a plant would
be difficult to find right now. Let alone staff to work in
a plant

Rojo hello-
You said
I wasn't aware of special halal vegetable requirements. I'd be interested to know more.
Reply- there you go Rojo they even have Halal Anzac Biscuits[ funny as].
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/compose-message-general.asp?discussion=596
You can contact here Re halal Vegetable Farms

info@halakindmeats.com
Office: (07) 5539 2369

I am glad you find it so entertaining. Happy to talk about Halal vegetables farms as with all farmers.
Might even be able to solve a few water problem together. Just give me "Farmers" and people who have been tapping into water resources for a few thousand years and leave out the so called Farmers Represenatives, Middle men and Government fools and I will be happy.
http://www.halakindmeats.com/aussiehero.html

Rojo Said
"Farmers are capable of running their own farms if some people would stop giving them NO other Option BUT LIVE EXPORTS".
Pale Replies.
Thats 100% Correct Rojo.
I need the Farmers Federation and others to at least allow us to inform the farmers of offers to speak with people direct! People who wish to source Halal Vegetables and Meats. BUT Instead of Farmers Federation `gratefully` excepting this they refuse to put up a simply message to farmers.
INSTEAD they fill farmers heads with scae tactics that Live exports are the only answer.
WEll we have a few ME people that wish to tell the Ausie Farmers thats not the case.
The Muslim people are complaing about the `same thing` as us.

They `dont want` to Go through Others because they dont trust them. They want to speak to farmers direct. Bill D`Darcy is too busy running around collecting money off the farmers spreading scare tactics and telling the poor buggers they must pay for legal costs to fight Animals Australia in the WA courts.
Muslims ARE willing to slaughter and deal here.

Theres no reason Australia can not be the front of a billion dollar Halal Meat and vegetable Industry and the farmers would be the winners.
The Sheep Council of Australia have agreed to meet with us. Whats wrong with the rest of you.?

paleif,

"Farmers are capable of running their own farms if some people would stop giving them NO other Option BUT LIVE EXPORTS".

Of course you would agree, I was quoting you. Personally I wouldn't say such nonsense. My response was:

"By all means give them options. I won't stand in your way. I'm not sure why this would change their capability to run the farms."

Haven't we spoke about comprehension before? Please do not attribute your writings to me.

Few would question the merits of value adding in Australia, the capacity is just not available to do it all in the short term. Farmers have to protect their income source in the present whereas you are dealing in the future, which generally isn't so clear.

Ok, so why dont the muslims just go ahead and build abattiors? How does that line go 'if you build it they will come'

No one will listen to ifs, buts, when's and maybe's.

You see pale, farmers need to sell their product now. There is a relatively small window of opportunity to sell sheep as their value decreases with age and only costs the farmer to keep them.

It wouldnt matter if a consortium of movie stars were putting forward this proposal, until it actually happens and the farmers see some real commitment, no one will care.

PF
Because they need t do it with Aussie contacts to insure supply. Because if they did it the wrong way without those contacts the big boys will close ranks and they wont get supply.

plenty of people have poured funds into plants in the past and failed because they did not have the right contacts with farmers.
Because Lets Say it costs $230.00 to run a beast through a plant. The others have been known to drop their prices to below cost for up to 4 months just to knock the new plant out.

Rojo
As you say there should be no reason why the farmers reps would not be very happy to allow us the bring people to meet the farmers face to face.
We all agree that to refuse to allow us to market in this way - Is to take us out of the market.
Protect Live exports at ALL costs.
Too bad for the farmers.
Never mind we are getting there.
I find people who sit back and rubbish others for at least trying to improve conditions for farmers and animals a tad negative.

As I said to you earlier if you are interested in Halal vegetable Farms your more than welcome to contact us.
We dont charge for Services
Have a nice Day.

PF ok I understand farmers need to Sell there products 'now'.
So heres what I will do. I will without any costs to anybody- so some cant say we are advertsing a business - start a thead and put up some of the people that want to buy from the farmers "Now".

I will keep it as updated as time will permitt.

What you will find however is the farmers in many cases will be unable as a single farm to meet the demands. On monday for eg we met with a ME buyer.
He wants 200 hundred ton per month. Another wants 500 ton per month. These guys of course to sign a contract the other end. My advise was dont sign. Once you lose face because you cant supply its over. They then said- just like Rojo well lets build plants.
I told them I would advise against that. I explained others had tried to break into the meat industry by putting in a lot of money from other countries in the past.
Doesnt matter if you have the best plant in the world. Without the farmers to ensure supply your stuffed.
So I also look after the overseas investor as well. My biggest fear is one of them will just go ahead and build one anyway and be stuck for supply. I have seen this happen. Together working along side the Ausie Farmer they will do well.
So will the farmers.
We do it together or not at all.
As for the order I put him onto the CEO of AFIC to try to assist as a favour.
He probably will source it evenually through NZ. He is very interested to meet farmers. They should meet him and some of his friends.Nice bloke down to earth with a lot of respect for farmers.
He is only one. There are many more.
I will post a thread for farmers interested to sell their meat Now.
Just keep an eye out if you are a farmer or know somebody who is.

"I told them I would advise against that. I explained others had tried to break into the meat industry by putting in a lot of money from other countries in the past.

Frankly Wendy, I don't think you are handing out very good
advice lol. I remind you how well the Americans and Japanese
have done, by investing in the meat industry here. As to the
sheep industry in WA, its wide open for innovation and opportunity.

Farmers owe 44 billion$, so their loyalty is very much to their
bank managers. So they will sell to those who pay the highest
prices, its as simple as that. Now if you look at the market reports
and studies done, even by the WA Govt, WA has Australia's cheapest
sheep, even if we factor in live exports.

The reasons for all this are political and go back a number of
years, but thats a long story. The result was a huge underinvestment
in sheep processing in WA. There is really only one single modern
sheepmeat plant in WA and thats owned by Fletcher. The WA Govt
held his hand to get him going over here, now I would be amazed
if this isn't the place where he's making most of his money, because
of relatively cheap sheep.

The best any investor could do is go to NZ and purchase a state
of the art kill chain, which requires hardly any labour. Labour
is in the boning room. Put a million sheep a year down that chain,
with few employees, then straight into a chilled container in carcass
form, then send them to Malaysia, the ME or wherever, for further
processing.

Given your claims that your buyers could pay alot more then is
presently paid in WA, they would have a huge margin to guarantee
supply, so that would not be an issue. Many kill chains in WA are
tiny and out of date, their only way of survival is to pay very little
for the product, farmers being the losers. So we do what is far
more profitable, send them out live

paleif,
I have to agree with yabby re: your business advice. It could do with a little more thinking.

Without new or improved infrastructure it is obvious that the processing capacity could not handle the throughput of animals otherwise destined for live export. If efforts are not made on this side of the business then farmers could have no confidence in supply arrangements or contracts.

"Once you lose face because you cant supply its over" Is that as opposed to being over before you start. How much worse can it be than not trying. The only constraint is the meat plants ability to do the job and being willing to pay the appropriate price for the animals. Hardly rocket science.

Farmers have no choice but to try to protect the live export trade. They know there is no other short term answer. By your own admission you are turning away trade already. What sort of message does that send?
The easiest and proper way to gain farmer support is to pay equally well for their product. Loyalty will come by the truckload.

"I find people who sit back and rubbish others for at least trying to improve conditions for farmers and animals a tad negative."
When you actually do something for the farmers with regard to live exports I'll cheer. So far you are calling for the end of live exports, yet you know the capacity is not available to process those animals here. In fact you advise against the building of new plants.
I don't quite see the benefit to farmers of ending live exports until demand from other buyers ends it.

When you gave me a dud link for the halal anzac bikkies I decided not to persue the veges further with you.

Yabby and Yabbys little shadow ?

http://www.afic.com.au/

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/21/1090089216035.html?from=storylhs

The Afic Web page has been worked on since the election of the new President Ikabel Patel. If you have any problems with links you can leave Mohamed a message on Halal help or Uzma. I had no problem with the link. You will also see HKM up on there too as Mohamed gets a moment. Mind you if you really were in the first place interested in Halal veggies I would not go there bagging me either.

Yup The Japanese inspired me in the first place along with the live exports. I recall a guy who asked for a five hundred thousand dollar plant a few years back but he was told sorry no money available. Pity too because he had the bulk of it. Three weeks after he was told that the Japenese were granted 40 million for the `same plant`. Mind you if you know the meat trade you will know who his Aussie partner was. Personally I agree with James. At least gamblings more honest.

So I thought to myself Wendy you are going to have to learn to play by their rules. Must say its rather enjoyable. Yup we all know live exports is driven by USA- Shame
You have confirmed what I thought in the first place- that you do a lot of reading. Your so called advise yabby in fact is how I told you it would work ages ago. I clearly recall you saying why are you talking about maylasia all the time when most goes to ME. I then explained to you we have several delgates over from there and through JAKIM it would pass hrough to ME or elsewhere. I also informed you that the equipment would be purchased from NZ. I clearly recall you going on with some waffle at the time against my arguments. Also I do not make all the descions. We have only just had the new elections and I am delighted with the results.

Wendy I can only be amused by your comments as to who said what
in one phone call long ago and stick by what I learnt from that ie.
never to discuss anything by phone with you ever again. Once
was enough lol, never again!

Yabby
It is indeed unfortunate you raised this again. It took me a long time to forgive you.
However as you raised it I wont allow you to try to discredit myself and those who work with us.

You called me. I told you we had just had a death in the family. I said that it wasnt a good time.
Much to my utter amazement - you laughed.
I dont know if its a nervous thing with you or what but it upset me.

I quite literally threw up when you finally put down the phone.
You ignored me when I requested could we speak later. So you waffled on and on and on.
I got the feeling of utter disappointment after three minutes of listening to your ramblings as it became clear you knew little about the industry.
I tried to speak but you barked over the top of me. perhaps you had takena few wines, only you know.
So we "never had" a conversation by phone Yabby. Then as you came sweeping through the phone like a tornado you were gone. Just like that - poof!.
You are a funny little man with a unfortunate mouth and some sort of persecution problem.
Had I had known your exporting yabbies years ago was a matter of national security I would not have mentioned it. So for that as its upset you I apoligize `sincerely.`
I forgave you but I dont agree with you.

"Your so called advise yabby in fact is how I told you it would work ages ago. I clearly recall you saying why are you talking about maylasia all the time when most goes to ME. I then explained to you we have several delgates over from there and through JAKIM it would pass hrough to ME or elsewhere. I also informed you that the equipment would be purchased from NZ."

Oops Wendy, I think you have just shot yourself in the proverbial
foot:) Read your other post, where you said that we never had
a conversation... Now you claim to have told me all these things.

Wendy, either you have a shocking memory or you are confused!

If you remember, you asked me to ring you and gave me your number.
I finally decided to go along with it, as a phone call is cheap
and I don't really care where the money comes from to build new
plants in WA. Fact is we need them, or prices for WA to farmers
would not be so much lower then ES prices.

My personal views on all this are well documented in papers, emails,
submissions to Govt and other sources. They were formed a long time
before Wendy came along with her views. They are much the same
as they were years ago, which the documented evidence shows. The
WA processing industry don't like to hear them, for it means that
they have to pull their fingers out and show that they are as good
as ES meatworks. The WA meat industry has relied on WA el cheapo
sheep for far too long, so that management can receive their bonuses
etc, flash cars and other perks, at growers expense. So I am not
popular amongst processors lol, but I really don't give a rats arse.

There are plenty of growers out there, I talk to them every day.
They are my friends, neighbours, part of my community. I reflect
their opinions. These are salt of the earth people, working hard
for their livelyhoods.

Reading through the posts here, I suspect you need to communicate better PALEIF. As far as I can tell, these are the key points - if I'm wrong, please clarify.

You're saying: "Theres no reason Australia can not be the front of a billion dollar Halal Meat and vegetable Industry and the farmers would be the winners. The Sheep Council of Australia have agreed to meet with us. Whats wrong with the rest of you?"

The answer I believe, is that there is nothing wrong. If there is an untapped market and superior profits to be had from an alternative to live exports, the farmers will be happy to adopt other exports instead.

You seem to be indicating that there is a conspiracy to continue the live export trade which is why your views aren't being heard.

This is an argument I tend to have a problem with. I would need a strong motive... as it stands, you are complaining that the farmers federation are supporting a producer in order to continue the practice of live exports... the thing is, the only reason I can see for them doing this, is if live exports are profitable.

You need to give me a convincing reason as to why the farmers groups are supportive of live exports and are doing their utmost to continue the trade, if in fact, it isn't profitable.

Yabbys posts explain the situation without this gaping hole - yours don't. It may simply be that in your zeal for this particular cause, your threads don't sound objective and your message is valid but clouded. In any case, I would need better explanations for why farmers groups aren't embracing new markets, when conventional wisdom suggests they would.

Wendy, just to clarify, I too remember that post some time ago. You did post your phone number (as you do regularly) and ask yabby to phone you. If is was not a convenient time you should have made the offer.

Also, the actual death in the family you mentioned, that was actually quite some time before that phone call wasnt it? Be fair now, you are making dear old yabby sound like a right heartless bastard :)

No Yabby

I am not confused. Over OLO

Ok Yabby lets do it this way. Whats the next thing that is happening in the trade?
Its common knowledge.
I will give you a break. You wont find it on the net.
We have even placed bets on which web site info you would race to to reply a post on.

Now to answer your questions.
Yes Australia can be the hub of Halal chillied meat suppply to ME Yes the sheep council are happy to meet with us.
Yes the trade deals have driven live exports at a high level.
Yes I did ask you if you knew farmers to call me.
Yes you did call.
No you did not mention farmers despite the fact I asked you.
If you have farmers I see no reason why you should not be paid as an agent so get them to make contact through web page. I am afraid I do not beleive you anymore because thats what you said last time which why I supplied you my phone number. I am sure they are farmers, but dont think you have much contact with them.
Your So predictable Yabby but if it makes you happy I will address this to turnrightleft post as well.
We dont mind a fair challange. One answer is- Why is it Abattpoirs are the ONLY industry In Australia blocked from obtaining staff through the skilled workers programe. Every other Industry is Ok?
What would you call that?
Playing it Fair? I think its clear.
Yes I do have evidence of unfair play and advantages to some but not others.
This is subject to a legal action we are considering so 'no' I am not posting it.

I refer you to lerks and perks through trade deals ie The Ausie bloke who asked for a 5g grant to buy a plant that was told no money despite the fact he had vput most of his cash into it.
3 weeks later 40 million to a off shore company for the SAME plant.
Hows That! for starters??

PF
If you recall that and you have been following the post as I know you have cast your mind back please to the exchanged posts on JAKIM.
Did yabby or did he not reply to me saying. Wendy Again it seems you are rather confused- It is not Malaysia that takes much of the Halal Meats but ME. Then he posted the figures that I asume came off the Government satistics that any never correct anyway. Did I not reply _ Yes Yabby but thats about to change as Malyasia see themselves as the hub of Halal Exporting back on through JAKIM to ME and elsewhere throughout the world.

As for the call PF we have had three deaths which I am not going imto. I remember well when Yabby called. What he said and how he laughed when I mentioned my fathers death.
He then said Quote.
Oh yeh Thats right I forgot your the over emoshional type arn`t you.
I had actually only just recieved the report back regarding his death which I told Yabby.
I will NOT talk about deaths in my family over the net.
I reponded to Yabbys comments about calling me.
Thats was all.
Also PF Steve in NSW seems a really good ali for you. He is interested to do something to promote free range.
I think together you would do really well. His wife is licenced for teaching.
Is there any interest from yourself at all? I dont think they could do it totally alone. Everybody needs somebody onside to work with. Hes also considerate of APL I am sure you understand.
He said they helped him set up his free range which is certainly very refreshing to hear.

This sort of sounds like some cryptic horoscope... steve in nsw ??
Teachers ??

I am a little lost pale.

Wendy, given your claim to posts I made, show me where I made
those posts. Please don't put words into my mouth.

You asked me to ring you, to give you advice about the WA
meat industry, which I did. Nope, I would not give you
my farmer friends numbers, for that would imply that I think
you are credible. I certainly explained the labour shortage
in WA to you, which you were not aware of at the time.

There are good reasons why the meat industry missed out
on 457 workers, although I gather thats about to change.
Firstly they were never very good lobbyists it seems.
The bloke who made the decisions was one of Burkey's
blokes, so they clearly hired the wrong lobbyists!

Next, the AMIEU were the union who made the most noise
about 457 workers.
As per normal, the squeeky wheel gets the oil.

Next, some meatworks did in fact do the wrong thing
by some 457 workers, so that had to be sorted out.

Lastly, just to set the record straight. No deaths in
your family when I rang you. You had been to court about
the tenants in your father's house. You certainly did not
ask me to ring at another time, you have even stated on
OLO that I should ring you. Given your memory, clearly
the only way to deal with you, is through public records,
such as OLO. Then we can refer back to who said what,
which does not apply to phone calls to people with it seems,
faulty memories.

Pale – if you do not wish to discuss a subject, then simply do not bring it up. This is a public forum and private emails to try and manipulate my opinion are very annoying!

On top of that, you have insinuated that I have some involvement with a steve in NSW (an ali) and APL?? Either retract that statement or explain it.

PF
I see Antje asked you not to continue on olo with personal attacks regarding something that upset me. What a sweet lady she is.
She thought she was helping.
I did not bring that up. I responded to something posted about a telephone call.
End of subject
The Pork farmer that you want me to distance you from is a person like yourself who is a big free range pork farmer.
There has been some conversations about starting a Ag School to teach free range farming.
Your free range farming was mentioned to us by that farmer when he was working out how many good freerange pork farmers there were and who else might be interested in the project.
I mentioned it to you thinking it may be of assistance for your self.
Nothing more.
The reference to APL was simply that they said while they promote free range pork over intensive that APL limited had been very helpful to them in setting up their farm.
To which I replied was good news.

Personal attacks Wendy? What are you talking about? I have done no such thing.

The only personal attacks came from an email address of halalkindmeats about another poster.

Please keep your comments factual and public.

Antje was not refering to you PF nor was I.

If there are farmers wanting direct contacts with overseas buyers you may post here and we are happy to put you in contact.

Yabby. Pale posts are for the every day Aussie`s to read. So we begin at the beginning- Simple as ABC. Sort of like AWB.Woops!
Wasn’t that the body that the Australian Government was accused of sending money to Sudan sorry S H?
Oil for food.
I don’t post in codes of practice or big words that the people can’t understand Yabby.
Do you know if it were not for you we could not have continued to educate the public about the cruel live animal export trade?

Which brings me to the point.

If ever the readers of these posts wanted "proof "that you are NOT part of this industry much less have a CLUE how it works "your it!"
Do you really think they would post on these threads? I mean live exporters?

Here you are as large as life drawing attention to the barbaric trade which is” totally “unnecessary” of Australias Greatest Shame Live Animal Exports.

You have major sponsors of the trade hosting the site.
Not a peek about prompting live exports Yabbs. Ever wondered why?

Because they don’t work that way Yabby. Live exporters don’t say Bank here we are Live Animal exporters. For Sale Elders Real Estate proud live Animal Exports. - Or Elders Insurance which by the way has an interesting policy for staff re recruits.

Same as Bunning’s don’t advertise their connection to Wesfamers.

Even if they did who has ever heard of Wes farmers in the general public?
Same as Wes farmers never took out adds on their sale of Live Animal Exports just after the 60 minutes reports on the cruel trade to AWB.

Oh yes we all know its there on public record but who has time to search that while working and picking kids up from school?

It’s sort of the same as you never head Kerry Packer proudly telling the average Aussie about the Live Animal Exports or Mr. Murdock

For some strange reason these people never wanted to talk about that.
There is only good old you Yabbs
I’ll be witnes

Oh! That`s so long as you `promise` to keep posting your propaganda.
Otherwise I guess we will have to host the- Guess who done it competition.

Oops, must be bundy night on the Gold Coast :)

Given that hardly anyone, except a few mostly hardcore
veggies read the animal welfare posts or comment,
I dont' really think that your posts make much
difference.

At least, after that little secret was divulged, we
now know all about the closet veggie lol.

Given my interest in neuroscience, you are actually
an interesting case study for me, in terms of
emotional engulfment, so I shall keep studying :)

Yabbs
Yup just you pale and the odd readers.[ funny as] You might be surprised who `does read it.We have had some interesting calls from people not disclosing their positions. That reminds me- [ How are you going Brion] Lovely site. See Yabbs that just goes the prove you can teach old dogs new tricks. So theres still hope for you yet. Here we are all here together. On OLO. You got your veggies your pollies. Then you got real live exorters like Elders. Isnt that nice. We try to acknowledge the sponsers Elders as often as possible. Until the new stickers are printed. Think I might have found my nitch in life Yabbs- Avdertising. What do you think about the new age face look for bumber bars ? You know put a face to a trade.Picture this bill boards with faces to trades.
Actually getting back to your pet subject you might also be surprised just who is requesting funding through MLA to sell chilled meat to the ME.
Of course why didnt I think of that.
I am sure MLA wont `have any trouble at all ` explaining that grant to the members. he he he.

Yup clear as mud.

I enjoy the system Yabby. Find it no end of amusement.
Nobody needs much money to help the farmers. Just a bit of good will. Its not hard to put a few people in direct contact.



I am just wondering Yabby what more you want.

The other thing I might mention to you is we have a great deal of time for several in the Industry.

I personally have a great deal of respect for Kevin and Hugh and they have always been helpful and polite in the past.

Mind you livecourpe wouldnt tell us who did the shampoo and blow dry on those Cormo sheep. Reckon we could have marketed that shampoo and done `real well`. Great pictures all those fluffy white sheep. Perhaps Landmark could market ~that ~shampoo~ through schools.

"That reminds me- [ How are you going Brion] Lovely site. See Yabbs that just goes the prove you can teach old dogs new tricks."

What exactly does this prove? Do you really expect to be taken seriously with such proofless comment. I'm sure Brion would enjoy being called an old dog.

Could we stick to verifiable facts please. Anything else, along with personal attacks, is pointless and counter-productive.

"Mind you livecourpe wouldnt tell us who did the shampoo and blow dry on those Cormo sheep. Reckon we could have marketed that shampoo and done `real well`. Great pictures all those fluffy white sheep."

I didn't realise the live exporters went to that level of care. No wonder live exports are supported by the Australian Vets Association, the Australian govts and farmers.

ditto!

LOL Wendy, so you believe that you have all these readers out
there.

I do actually know of one person who sometimes reads your
threads, they think Graham should reclassify your many
threads under "Comedy and light entertainment". :)

Rojo

I am sure Brion has been called worse when you look at this.

http://www.rspcaqld.org.au/media/Live_Export_Update_14Feb07.pdf

http://www.rspcaqld.org.au/campaigns/liveexporttrade/howyoucanhelp.htm

Anyway Rojo I wasnt refering to Brion but Yabbs regarding teaching old dogs new tricks.

Brion sounded like a bloke just trying to a job to me and I reckon he has a sense of humour too.
The way I see it is if the Free Range Farm package is viable Elders should probably look at it. If they dont others will. Simple.
They are people who are involved in the Ag Biz and Real Estate so they would be crazy not to.

I just hope they dont make the mistake of thinking this programe can be linked with feeds lots or intensive farms for their sake that all.
We are driving our market on the advantages of Free Range and Creek Fed opposed to intensive so that would be a disaster for them.

I mean look it only makes sense surley doesnt it. The animal welfare groups are just getting started. Not only in Australia but world wide.
The Government have to do something about all the Sea tree change familes or the whole nation will be on center link.

Elders united with a few of the others they work shoulder to shoulder with would be crazy not to combine farming with their real estate. The Government would be just as crazy not to look at putting familes who want to migrate here into some of those farms.

Yes water is a problem and there are a few people from ME alone with some of our own clever country people that ought to be working together.
Elders and us should be working together on this. Who knows what will happen later down the track Rojo.
It might be Elders and us or somebody else.
I honestly dont really care right at this moment too busy putting it all together.

Whatever Rojo. Eventually we will be buying up land and setting up Free Range ag schools and marketing farms with ongoing assistance.

With or without The Government or Elders Real Estate and Ag.

Pale - I have asked you this many times now and you never have an answer. Explain what you mean by creek fed?

paleif, my advice, for what it's worth, is to focus on a couple of objectives and do them well. Get some abbatoirs up and running and encourage free range production. Don't get bogged down in real estate dreams and agschools until your business model is proven.
Too much dreaming not enough doing.

Rojo PF Yabby
Howdy all. Rojo the shampoo joke was actually rather enjoyed by Live Courpe themselves at the time. No they dont normally provide 'that level of care' which of course was the joke. We were working with Free Lance journo at the time and he reported to us they blocked off the whole area with sercurity for three miles around ````````and you could still smell it. This resulted in us asking livecourpe for the name of the shampoo they did the sheep with for `those` pictures. You know A picture tells a thousand words. I dont think anybody else even noticed it. They actually got away with it. Might pay others to check out the veg next time.
So if they laughed I guess you can sit there with a glum face if you like.

Yabby. Actually I already asked Graham about that but I will ask again. Good idea. I dont mind the thought of posting with some people with a sense of humour. Be a nice change.

PF I have answered that question before but shall again.
Its free Range with hard feed included. The term has been around a hundred years and was I guess started by the real old timers.
Mobs would move back to high land before floods and they would take feed down and toss it. Soon it became a way of rounding stock and making it easy to handle them.
A few of the butchers up here are working towards forming a co op and are adopting the creek fed style.
Easy- padocks tractor feed- once or twice a day- depending on what type of natural feed already in padocks.
So instead of having the poor sods standing in each others urine you leave them Free Range and drive around dumping feed once or twice a day.

As stock usually drink twice a day around the same time they tend to be around the water or creek beds. Hense where the term came from.

Enjoy the rest of your evening guys.

"So if they laughed I guess you can sit there with a glum face if you like"

No, I'm having a good time, even if you don't get my sense of humour.

Rojo
Well I am certainly happy to hear that. Hate to think all our efforts gave no pleasure to`````` anybody.


Yabbs. I can assure you the people that we wanted to read them are.
We are happy and have had contact with some who would not have contacted us otherwise.
It works for me and it works for you too.
How else would you spend your days if you didnt have us to pick on Yabbs?
You would miss us all if we stopped posting so go on and addmitt it.

Dont know that your too popular with that other lot you claim to be onside with but we love you anyway.

Off you go now and read up on some more of that stuff you keep posting from those with vetted instersts. I said Vet- edited- Interests
Got a real knack for this I reckon Yabbs.
How do you like the new bumper stickers idea?.
They just keep coming Yabbs and we must thank you for helping to enspire them.

Yup you sure have found a good cause Yabbs and Hey- Theres safety.
in numbers

We will watch out for you Yabbs.

Actually we are doing something down your way right now.

As usual nice to hear from you.
in case you ever get any ideas around your way for plants dont be shy Yabbs.
Give us half a dozen farmers to talk to off shore purchasers of meat and you got your plant.
We wont even need to attend.
You can do it without us.

Off you go now Yabbs and see who you think might listen to you.

If you like I will send you a few people who are interested and you can contact them yourself.
Cant be more fair than that can I?