Soggy, methinks that there is an inherent contradiction in your assertion that Labor has had good policies but has been incompetent in delivering them!

Part of having good policies is to be able to make then count for something. Otherwise they have to be called bad policies, surely!

Pertaining to the examples you give, you could say that they’ve had the right ideals or philosophy, up to a point. But they’ve very much had the wrong philosophy at the same time, in a much bigger way: the way of constantly expanding the population and hence the demand for goods, services, infrastructure, water and everything else.

<< Nah Luddy, these clowns are incompetent, Swans a cretin, Gillard lies….>>

Alright, so how do you think they would go with a couple of definitely more intelligent and sustainability-attuned people at the helm, in the form of Bob Carr and Kelvin Thomson?

So what of the Opposition? How do you think their policies and ability to implement them compare with Labor?

How do they potentially compare to a new Labor team with a sustainability paradigm at its core?

......Part of that is down to Howard-era subsidy getting people into housing earlier than their normal savings pattern would have allowed it, but the biggest factor is those two-income families being prepared to spend more.

Anti, what a load of rubbish.

Since Howard introduced then first home owners grant (which shoukd have been a loan by the way), the vast majorities of properties purchased back in 2000-2002 have increased at least 3 fold.

Ludwig, moving forward is not so much up to governments, but more so corporations, however to do so, the one thing they need more than anything, is confidence, and that is one thing labor took an axe to once in power.

Why anyone would disrupt business while the global economy was in melt down defies logic.

However, if big business is confident, they will invest and create growth for medium to small business, you know, much the way Howard did.

History is hard to discredit.

" the vast majorities of properties purchased back in 2000-2002 have increased at least 3 fold."

And why do you think that is, Rehctub?

The average house cost approximately 4x median income 20 years ago and now it costs at least 6x. How much have your sausages gone up relative to income in that period?

The simple fact is that the house prices have gone up because two-income families can afford to spend more and the proportion of families with two full-time incomes increased during that period. They are now flat-lining because the proportion of families with two full-time incomes has stopped increasing.

That may be unpalatable, but it's factual, unlike your worship at the altar of Howard.

<< Ludwig, moving forward is not so much up to governments, but more so corporations, however to do so, the one thing they need more than anything, is confidence, and that is one thing labor took an axe to once in power. >>

Rechtub, wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could rely on corporations to be good corporate citizens who consider the future of our country as much as they consider their shareholders, their own enormous salaries (for those who make the big decisions) and their maximised continuous expansion and increase in profits.

But we can’t expect them to do that. It is totally the role of government to pull them into line and make sure that they are not just totally self-centred bad corporate citizens.

So, moving forward is most definitely up to government.

Yes, businesses need confidence in government. But that doesn’t mean confidence that the government will allow them virtual open slather to do what they like, it means confidence in a government that elucidates the guidelines, laws and parameters and then upholds them at face value and doesn’t tamper with them other than to perhaps tweak and refine them a bit.

Hasbeen, about the housing not such a big problem, build most of them out of concrete blocks, an iron or traditional roof and shutters on the windows, stand up to most blows, Heath services are the biggest problem with the 'district nurse' number one when it comes to health, with help from other nurses at times he or she can get a lot done, preventive medicine for the kids and health checks for everyone. One problem is teeth, kids love the western sweets. School teacher is fantastic she with her 2 local aids do a terrific job, always in need of exercise books and things like that, get some things from the government, but never seems to arrive on time with the "Island Trader" The local 'shop' could do with a boost, don't seem to carry enough stock. I want one of my family to take it over, put another 6 foot on the building and increase the stock and range, but I leave all decisions up to the family, they know best.

Ludwig>> Part of having good policies is to be able to make then count for something. Otherwise they have to be called bad policies, surely!<<
I was looking for positive social reforms as my choices example. We got the talk but no outcomes, just failures. So a positive policy that fails is not rubbish, in Labors case it was the under graduate style failed implementation.

Ludwig>>Alright, so how do you think they would go with a couple of definitely more intelligent and sustainability-attuned people at the helm, in the form of Bob Carr and Kelvin Thomson?<<
Luddy it seems the “more intelligent and sustainability-attuned people” have had no bearing in the previous six years….why would it change?

Ludwig>> So what of the Opposition? How do you think their policies and ability to implement them compare with Labor?<<
Again I can only relate to track records…the Coalition are better fiscal managers. What they are going to do with a RECORD $200 Billion deficit….who knows.

Ludwig>> How do they potentially compare to a new Labor team with a sustainability paradigm at its core?<<
Which new Labor team with a sustainability paradigm at its core?