Dear Bazz,

Papa did the same. He did not believe in credit.
He only bought things when he could afford to pay for
them. My husband's father did the same. My husband and
I own our own home and we have no debts. It took
two of us working full-time to achieve that. Our home
has gone up in price - dramatically so.
We can't complain. We've figured out that hopefully when
the time and the need comes the sale of our home will
take care of us in our old age. It just may cover the
costs of high care for us both. Fingers-crossed that
the prices of nursing homes won't sky-rocket out of all
control. Our children are doing well - we don't have
to worry too much about them.

We're lucky in this country. Call me Pollyanna - I don't
mind. I am grateful that no matter what governments we've
had - we haven't really had to suffer badly - as
our neighbours and other countries have had to do
around the globe. Perhaps we should all count our blessings
and not tempt fate.

OK Luddy, you've convinced. Carr is much worse than I thought.

Give me what you see as sustainability so we can really talk. But if it includes the Murry Darling madness, & wild rivers, perhaps don't bother. That rubbish is pipe dream ideology not sustainability.

Bazz I'm with you. We started life together & had our first child living on the yacht. We moved ashore in 4 garbage bags, & a sail bag, no room on a yacht for ports.

An outdoor picnic table & stools was our dining suite, & much of our stuff is quality, but was aquired second hand 25+ years ago & refurbished. I did buy a water bed 28 years ago, I needed it due to a back injury from my navy days. It is on its 3Rd water bladder, 4Th heater, & in it's 6Th house, but is still the "NEW" bed.

I don't know if house prices have dropped that much, but the only ones selling are the fire sale types, at prices way down. Most people with new homes, on acreage just can't afford to sell at below the mortgage value, so don't. Unfortunately many have bought the acreage dream, but found an acreage nightmare of cost traveling time & maintenance work load. Many want out after just a couple of years.

On power, after careful study, & getting my math back to where I could understand the physics, I'm convinced that no matter how it started, the global warming story today is codswallop. A con now perpetuated by those with a lifetime invested in it, & politicians who don't want to look silly.

This means we should be into the latest coal fired power systems, & scrubbing all the expensive tomfoolery. The latest coal technology produces 15% to 20% less CO2 than our existing technology, so for those still believing, we can have an each way bet on cheaper power, & less CO2 than any alternative system, when including their gas fired back up requirement.

Continued

Continued

I have no doubt something will come along, from private enterprise, or possibly from China which will supersede coal, on price & availability some time.

The small self contained nuclear units used in US warships & subs have a great record. A couple of them for each town, & banks of them for cities makes more sense right now, than thousands of miles high tension power lines, where coal is not readily available, but the answer is probably something we have not yet dreamed of.

<< Give me what you see as sustainability so we can really talk >>

Haz: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5710#159091

Luddy, I read all that thread, & even the Wikipedia waffle referenced there, but I still have no idea of what it is supposed to mean.

You appear to have avoided my question re the Murray Darling plan. If this is what sustainability is about, count me out.

I agree totally about population limits, & that growth is unnecessary, although it would require a decade or more to handle the reduction in the building industry this would cause. Difficult or not, it would be worthwhile.

However much which I presume, possibly incorrectly, is involved in some peoples sustainability is neither good, nor advantageous to anything.

We are always going to need fuel, & coal & nuclear are the only current intelligent sources of electricity.

We are going to need transport, & even as a horse breeder, I must admit that will require oil gas or methane clathrate. Personally I don't give a damn which, but if sustainability can't include this, it is doomed.

I think all too often the rat bag fringe jump on sustainability as a stick to hit out at modern technology. People talking sustainability jump on the global warming band wagon, when it's wheels are falling off, faster than the lefties & the ABC can put them back.

Too many try to use sustainability to support their own barrow.

So mate, if you want to stop the world, & make everyone get off, bl00dly say so. Stop beating about the bush, & tell everyone the details. I really want to know. Without an honest statement of what it really entails, you won’t get support from any but those with an agenda.

<< Luddy, I read all that thread, & even the Wikipedia waffle referenced there, but I still have no idea of what it is supposed to mean. >>

D’Oh Hazza, you’re not that dumb!!

<< I agree totally about population limits…. >>

Good!

You said something similar in response to me nearly seven years ago (July 06):

<< Ludwig, you are dead right about population growth, its got to be stopped,in SEQ, before it consumes the entire state wealth >> http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4604#45445

I find it very hard indeed to believe that you have this basic agreement with me but haven’t been able to understand what my main concerns are re sustainability despite the copious exchanges we have had over the last long seven years!

You know in your heart that a balancing of supply and demand is essential and that continuously increasing demand for everything is madness. And you know that this fundamental state MUST be achieved and must be an ongoing permanent cornerstone of our society.

You ARE a sustainabilityist somewhere deep down beneath that terribly gruff and negative exterior! Or maybe it lurks just below the surface! So stop denying it!

Yes, the word ‘sustainability’ is misused. Just like ‘growth’, ‘environment’ and every other word of this sort that doesn’t have an absolutely clear-cut definition that is the same for everyone.

So what? I’m sure you have a very good idea of what I mean, and that’s all that matters here.

The Murray/Darling? There has been a gross overallocation of water, which needs to be clawed back. I’ll leave the extent, methodology and timeframe in which that happens to the experts.

It is a stark example of what happens when we overstep the mark – it becomes extremely difficult to recover, inevitably affects some people much more than others and meets with some pretty vehement opposition.

Our whole society is currently hooting towards a similar state of affairs. Let’s make sure it doesn’t get there!