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The Forum > General Discussion > liberals and climate change and history

liberals and climate change and history

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Saltpetre,

An analysis of Tony Abbott's Direct Action plan:

http://theconversation.edu.au/will-the-oppositions-direct-action-plan-work-12309

From Tony Abbott: "The climate change argument is absolute crap, however the politics are tough for us because 80 per cent of people believe climate change is a real and present danger."

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2010/s2808321.htm

Doesn't sound like his heart is in it, you reckon?
Posted by Poirot, Saturday, 9 March 2013 6:12:20 PM
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Well, Poirot, thanks for those links, and from the outline of Tony Abbott's 2010 direct action plan I have to agree it won't do the job.
However, I am also confident that the Carbon Tax arrangements and subsequent ETS won't do the job either.
There are massive pitfalls in both propositions - soil sequestration and tree planting is limited in potential scope and maintenance, and some industry incentive payments could not make up the difference.
ETS will be open to such rorts it will be a money sieve, and make no discernible difference to global CO2 - because it relies on re-forestation of land currently cleared for agriculture, or on the same limited soil carbon sequestration proposed by Abbott.
Demand for food production is only going to grow, not diminish (even if the West is far less wasteful), and though increasing soil sequestration should increase fertility and consequent productive outputs, it is still subject to finite limits which will have no chance of keeping pace with emissions growth resultant from population growth demands and the ever increasing movement of developing world populations to a more affluent and urban lifestyle.

No, it has to be genuine alternative high-efficiency energy production (including new-age gas/coal base-load, wind, solar, hydro, wave, geothermal, biomass and algal aquaculture), plus emissions capture and conversion (because burying CO2 can't work), and nuclear - together with much more energy-efficient industrial production technology, transportation, building construction and food production. Either that, or back to the horse and cart, pushbikes, push-mowers, and home gardens.
(Or we can adapt to climate change, restrict global population, ban plasma TVs and ducted air conditioning, severely limit air travel, go back to sail powered ocean transport, say good-bye to polar bears and many other species, and start building our underground living quarters and food storage facilities.)

Industry won't move without incentive, and that incentive can only come from direct threat to the bottom line, nothing less. So, fingers crossed.
Posted by Saltpetre, Saturday, 9 March 2013 8:17:45 PM
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Saltpetre, I notice that you are circling around the problem but not
quite landing on the knub of the problem.
We have a declining amount of energy available, sure it bumps up and
down a bit, but it is unwaveringly ready to accelerate its decline.
Recently some of those studying coal are suggesting that peak coal is
more likely to be earlier in 2020.

We have a situation of increasing demand for food.
We will have a decreasing supply of energy.
We have an increasing cost of energy.
We have an urgent need to build alternative energy systems.
We will need to devote as much energy and resources to build energy systems as possible.
We have a falling GDP throughout the world.
Lower GDP means less money for infrastructure and the most important
infrastructure is alternative energy.

The AGW proposal for alternative energy is too long term.
The need is completion in 20 years not 50 years.
Indeed some say 5 years before we have an energy crisis.
Trouble is no one knows for sure whether it is too late now to devote
our available resources to building that infrastructure.
Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 9 March 2013 9:42:28 PM
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Those wasting their time worrying about how to have an ETS I would ask
if you know how come the Russian Oligarchy became so rich so they
could buy Russia.
They did it by buying decrepit Russian factories for scrap and telling
the Europeans that they were closing them and sold them the CO2 credits.
I presume they are waiting to strip our ETS system.
Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 9 March 2013 9:53:29 PM
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I have been told since the early 1950's that I and the rest of the human race is going to hell in a hand basket lol. I have survived nuclear armageddon and the Y2000 bug, guys I am ten foot tall and bullet proof lol.
The west wastes half the food it grows and the East loses half to pests. We will not starve. Plenty of energy and we may have to pay a little more for it.
Read 1984 these green scum politicians think by frightening people we will be more compliant. I won't! I will call it for what it is, a fraud to enrich these green scum. The irony is they will put it in place and the ogliarchs will take it over because the Greens and Gillard are by nature dumb as canine odure.
Posted by JBowyer, Sunday, 10 March 2013 7:56:36 AM
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Dear JBowyer,

Don't worry, when the end comes there will still be plenty of cannibals left!
Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 10 March 2013 9:35:17 AM
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