May I get in early?
Is this out of the cash for clunkers stable?
A good idea but so very complex.
I could not get NSW Government Ministers, including MacDonald in his time at National parks, and several in the then RTA, to buy Australian.
Even in the end uniforms.
How will this help, are we the ultimate bill payers for government infrastructural going to pay much more.
Steel to cement is mostly imports, I would love to forget free trade rules and embargo such imports but no government will or should.
We should support our industry.
We should use our country's manufacturing first and last.
But is this a real policy, will it work, how?

Quote "THE Prime Minister is to paint herself as a leader capable of making tough choices, saying only Labor would be prepared to take $1 billion from the richest top 20 companies to fund a job-creation plan for smaller ones."

Just like her other WINNER the mining tax, How many people will the top 20 lay off to compensate for the loss and how many people will small business hire?

You are on a winner here Juliar, why not fix up the mining tax debacle first, incidentally most of those top 20 are in the mining business.

I write as the person I am, a true believer, Labor supporter, disliker of Gillard and her supporters.
In Parliament not out side.
What is the business of political party's if not policy's/plans and direction?
To me, educated by my time as a construction union official, this plan cannot work.
Seemingly thrown together in a back yard shed, it ignores the truth business runs to make a profit.
While some way must be found to off set the impacts of the high Australian dollar, this is not it.
Government, may have the power to insist its contractors use only Australian made goods, but that says pay more for less.
A continent wide construction project, say airports roads or my wished for flood reconstruction and moving homes to higher ground idea may not do it.
Currently we would have to import 457 visa holders, we do not have enough workers to do it.
What is the answer? some may know I doubt this is it.
Continued.

This mornings polls bring no surprise to me, and no joy.
In a final effort to defend myself, I divert, for this post only my own thread.
I can not play the foolish game many supporters of Labor are doing.
Burying ostrich like heads in the sand.
Pointing to Abbott chanting a truth, he is bad, without knowing, Gillard is worse!
And the dream time stuff that Labor can ignore, or at best pay lip service, to the fact Kevin Rudd is our only chance.
What if no voice is raised? no one within our party, HIGHLIGHTS NSW cry,s over HSU, stands publicly to oppose power brokers, OWNERSHIP of my party.
This policy requires me to ask, are those we sent to govern for us interested in public opinion.
Do they wave this lolly bag with no bottom as empty as cash for clunkers at us, is that how dumb they think we are?
Use the raised cash to dump payroll tax on Australian manufacturers for ten years.
But build no castles insult our ability to think no more.
And?
Dump Gillard and Swan.

What would be really interesting to know is the liberal parties job policies ?
We have claims from from Abbott that he is going to create 2 million new jobs
but on the other hand he is going to bring the budget back into surplus.
I can see no way that these two policies are in any way compatible
in anything under a decade. My guess is that the liberals will go
for the surplus and bad luck about higher unemployment.

What is needed is for a government to steal a march on history and
disconnect Australia from globalisation.
One of the causes of the worlds economic problems is globalisation, but
not just on its own.
We are indeed at a turning point of history, with the end of growth here now.
There are two ways governments try to increase growth;
By pumping more money into the system, ie printing money.
By introducing severe cutbacks in expenditure.

Those two methods are no longer working and economists do not seem to
know why. However there are economists and others who do state that
we have reached the end game of growth because net energy has fallen
too low to maintain our economies.
Net Energy is the available energy to do work after the energy used
to produce the energy itself is subtracted.
It is known as the Red Queen syndrome.
ie run as fast as you can to stay in the same place.

I do not think either party is capable of making the mind set change
necessary to handle the coming changes. It is just too radicle.

Dear Bazz,

I hate to disappoint you but there is no winding back the clock on globalisation.

Problem is that people have been fooled into believing that economic growth is a pathway to a better world.

Eventually governments are going to have to share power with business corporations or bust.

A brave new world for all those who can't think for themselves!

I can see nothing wrong in requiring any company granted a mining lease, or any other permit to exploit Oz recourses, to be required to acquire a large percentage of their capital equipment in Oz. 50% minimum springs to mind, provided it is an ongoing commitment including replacements.

If this lead to overseas companies setting up fabrication plants in oz to build fixed plant, or equipment manufacturers having to set up in Oz to build draglines & bulldozers etc, at higher cost to miners, so be it. We would gain in jobs & technology transfer.

This to my mind is a much better way to ensure Oz & our people profit from our mineral & other resources, much better than a tax.

This is one where I'm right with Labor.

Dear Hasbeen,

Hasn't this been on the Labor agenda since Bob Hawke became prime minister: the Asianisation of Australia.

Where do you think these investors are going to come from?

When I was a kid Chinatown was a lane in Haymarket called Dixon Street; now it goes by the name of Sydney.

Under your paradigm for economic optimism the entire country will soon be owned lock stock and barrel by China. The end result of having let an alcoholic become prime minister 25 years ago.

Australia gains far more from being part of glottalization than it costs us.
Think, no mining exports no meat wheat and food, can any one think we can sell while refusing to let goods in.
Such a plan negates the need for this scheme, we would stagnate.
And I doubt any support for our say steel, that stops importers who offer a cheaper rate will work.
Easy to gloat for conservatives, and to clutch at straws from my side.
Reality beckons, we are inflicting Liberals, in a similar way to NSW, failures of Labor, intrusions of power brokers blindness of Gillard.
We should look at tax breaks in high employing manufacturing industry.
We have an easy solution, should the reserve bank drop interest rates by one and a quarter percent, international trade in our dollar would slump and let us be competitive.

More evidence of these fools (labor) being out of their debth.

On the one hand they try to tell us all is fine, we are almost full employment, now, they tell us we need to create more local jobs.

So what is it, are we fully employed, or are we not. Now if we are, as they like to keep reminding us, where are the local workers going to come from, or more so, if they do take up these jobs, where are the workers goimg to come from to fill the void they leave.

I am afraid it's yet another policy on the run, fueled by sheer desperation from this sinking government.

As I said in another thread, September just can't come quick enough.

Belly said;
Australia gains far more from being part of glottalization than it costs us.

No it doesn't. With it we lose jobs and the incomes that go with it,
and we are consumers spending our money, and producing nothing.
In China they are getting jobs and receiving our money.

I am currently studying a paper that shows how the world has got
itself into this mess. It is a lot more complex than just that of
course but I will write something about it when I finish studying it.
It has about 60 pages of text plus graphs.

It confirms what I have been saying for some time about growth & eneregy.

It’s not just the interest rate Belly, although I expect that has an effect. Much of that money is coming in not for profit, but for safety.

With the US & Europe printing money like there is no tomorrow, they are fuelling inflation in their economies, leading to a lowering of their exchange rate. Not much good getting few percent in interest, if you are going to loose 10s of percent when you take your money home.

The US dollar is no longer seen as a safe appreciating currency. Some of the people who would park their cash in US dollars, while things were troubled, are now using Oz as a safe parking place. The fact that our dollar has been appreciating is so much the better. For this reason, dropping interest rates, even to almost zero, is unlikely to affect our exchange rate, at least in the foreseeable future.

Our mining is proving to be a bit of a forked stick. Without it we’re a banana republic, with stuff all foreign earnings & income. With it we destroy our manufacturing industry, & all those jobs that go with it.

Now is the time a smart PM & treasurer would be nice, if only we could be sure their actions were to help the average Ozzie, rather than some elite cause.

Bazz, Hasbeen, I think differently but am just as likely to be wrong as any one.
High Australian Dollar, well I believe trading in currency is a blight on us all, and our interest rates are directly linked to the dollars value.
Bazz please consider, knowing I am unhappy with Labors current position and impending defeat.
Our debt, our current position is far better than most country's.
We, because mostly good choices Rudd made, he made some bad ones, rode that event so well, we forget its impacts on the world.
And post election, voices from within the new government will tell us so, Liberals.
Fan clubs, both sides have them, as is evident with yesterdays support for Gillard, have no impact, change nothing, if they number less than the numbers disagreeing.
I too fear/think this scheme has the Gillard brand on it, empty headed not thought out , and is designed to try to get grass roots unions/workers to chase a carrot.
True reform and leadership would make better carrot.

Well yes Belly I hear your sadness and I share it to a considerable extent.
My sadness is because I don't believe the Liberal Party has the answers
to our problem either. In their case it is because they have not seen
the problem even though it is staring them in the face.

Of the two parties the Labour party is tied too tightly to its roots to
be able to do what is necessary and hopefully the Liberal party may be
free to act when finally it hits them between the eyes.
You are aware of what I have been saying for a while, but what I did
not realise is that these other functions are also active in compromising our economy.
I had a fairly narrow view of what is happening, although my view is the central problem.

Belly and Bazz,
The latest job creation suggestions are simply a carrot. We decimated our manufacturing industry when we abolished tarriffs. Now we import garbage. Try to buy quality garden tools now? a garden fork when trying to lever out the sod, the bloody things just bend. Same with most imports, just rubbish. Saw last night that now 70% of seafood is now imported, and we have, and are. covering good farming land with bitumen, concrete and houses. We have gone from an economy based on primary and manufacturing to one based on retail sales of imported products. The exception is minerals, which got us through the GFC.

Instead of providing funds to overseas countries we should be looking after our own people. We should cut immigration, but we wont because both major parties are in the pockets of big business and they want increased sales of consumer goods.

Dont want to rub it in, but the last 5 years have really been a gigantic stuff up. Old time Labor leaders would be turning in their graves.

Loans have to be paid back, unless interest is continued to be paid. So the next governments will not have a surplus to build any infastructure much. So the future does not look good for the next generations.

Belly,

From what I have seen of this policy, it is pure window dressing that will simply add cost and delay to projects and give very little extra to local manufacturers.

Most project and other buyers already would prefer to buy locally, however the main reason people buy from overseas is because it is far cheaper. For example, steel from China is half the price of local steel.

Major companies will spend millions documenting why they buy from overseas, yet cannot be forced to spend one more cent locally without breaching trade laws.

Banjo, I am hoping to write something about globalisation and give a
reference to a very illuminating article when I finish reading it and
think I understand it.

BTW, oil is $135 a barrel today, & that's why the price at the pump is
$1.56. If it does not fall soon we will have a recession around late March or April.
If it only backs off a little a recession will come between July &
October, just in time for the election.
It will not be the governments fault, it is just the way it has always been.

SM Banjo, Bazz I started the thread to highlight my view, it is a fraud.
It has the smell of Gillard or the fool that has been writing policy for her from her first days after the knifing, useless as the proverbial on a Bull.
I continue however to rebut the view our debt is other than manageable.
Compare it with America, England, Greece, Spain, Ireland.
Lets not forget the GFC it will return one day, our world can not forever live on credit.
We can create jobs, but first we must under stand many of the 5% do not want them.
We import 547 visa holders now, and do not see we have 5% unemployed, why?

I'm just not sure about this one. I agree that we should provide opportunities for all Australians to find employment, but the reality is that we are now a cog in a global economy and perhaps we're not spinning quickly enough to keep up.

At the moment, we have TV ads asking us to buy Australian products, even if they cost a little more, to avoid putting Australians out of a job. It's a noble sentiment, and I hope it takes off.

But is it a losing battle? In one ad, we have a farmer asking us to pay a little more for his pears than we would pay for imported ones. What is going wrong in our production and distribution chains that it is cheaper to bring pears in from overseas than it is to grow them and sell them locally? Is it that the value of a pear in our global market - labour and all - is much lower than we are being asked to pay for them?

Australians want jobs that will sustain our livelihoods. Our livelihoods are made more expensive by supporting Australian businesses, which means that the workers who are competing with cheap foreign labour need to earn more in order to sustain themselves. Sad though it is, perhaps it's time to invest in sectors other than manufacturing and primary industries? I love the notion that Australia is supported by - and supports - the working man, but in a global economy, the work done by the working man is valued far less than the price charged by the Australian worker to do it. Will that be sustainable forever? Unless we can build a niche in which Australian workmanship is recognised as being of a high enough quality to command a higher price, Australian manufacturing will have to rely on a resurgence of sentimental support among Australians for Australian Made products.

Not sure if any of that makes sense - sorry if it doesn't!

The big problem is SHE just does not listen to people, here is example.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/gillard-warned-numbers-wont-add-up-20130219-2eplf.html

THE Gillard government's innovation and jobs package was launched this week despite warnings from its industry department and the tax office that the $1 billion saving at the heart of the policy might never eventuate.

She does not even listen to the tax dep't.

Bring on an earlier election to get rid of these fools.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/political-news/gillard-warned-numbers-wont-add-up-20130219-2eplf.html
I came to post the same link, to a different paper.
Other links could have been posted, including the wish Bill Shorten act.
Maybe withdrawing his suport for Gillard.
I am aware of the conference under way, AWU Australia's best union, unable however to see dreams do not always come true.
And putting this scrambled eggs policy out there, only highlights it,s manufacturer lacks the skill to put real ones together.

Oto, our standard of live is the reason, wages costs are the difference.
Surely no one wants us to be like the USA let illegal migrants in at starvation wages to harvest our food.
No easy answers, we can not put a tax on imports, not isolate our fruit from world market.
Some will say we should , but doing it is against the war we, both sides of politics fight for open free trade, much to our benefit.
Maybe clearly brand it as Australian?
I buy it first every time but many want the cheap prices.
I would like the voices in my party that are not heard to say what they think is the answer not policy's like this window dressing one.

Bazz, you say.....It will not be the governments fault, it is just the way it has always been.

Well, any recession will be hard hitting, esspecially to those brain washed labor supporters who were sucked in by their continued spin, brought about by their stubbiness and denial.

Otokonoko, you would most likely find that that same farmer wears cloths made over seas, and much of his plant and equipment would also be imported.

I remember receiving an invitation to a Katter party meeting and, by attending you received a free T shirt.

I asked if that shirts was Australian made and you guessed it, I never received an answer.

This policy is another political stunt, just like the Greens latest move, whereby they sever the ties but still pledge their support.

It if wasn't such a serious situation it would be laughable, but the reality is that in less than FVE YEARS labor, with the assistance of the greens and those so called independents have all but ruined this once great nation.

Many of us saw this for what it was, unfortunately, just not enough of us.

Rehctub et al
That commentary I have been waffling on about is up with a link to the
article. My comments are;

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5640

I think you will find it interesting, but I don't expect you to read
all 84 pages, including some nice historical photos.
Pity there are no titles to tell us what & where they are.

Belly, the US rewards those who achieve, gain skills, whether they be professional, or tafe skills, and don't reward those who simply slip and slide from day to day.

Then there are those in the likes of hospitality, who enjoy excellent rewards, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY EXCEL AT THEIR JOBS.

No problem with that I say.

Now of cause there are many who will be offended by this, but tough titties, because like it or not, high low/no skill wages cripple us, besides, I doubt the cleaners get paid equal to the police in the US, simply because it's a Sunday.

Now as if this isn't enough, labor wants more, like their recent announcement about even more flexibility in the workforce, for parents, careres and those exposed, even elegidly, to domestic violence.

Yet another example of no consideration for those who CREATE THE JOBS.

Thank god labor are gone come September, otherwise we would become the home of the long weekend.

OK Rehctub, relax it was a flash in the pan, it is back down near $115.

Rechtub! those brain washed Labor supporters?
Do you have a brain?
show me the evidence.
Now that is insulting, I need not have done it, but do you understand how utterly silly you sound?
At least I put my reason for not trusting this half witted policy.
Do you know that is the stand I took.
Here are some truths, Liberals are going to win the election, unless.
Some one replaces Gillard, if so some one may replace Abbott, what a win for Australia.
Now think! are the wrongs Newman is inflicting on QLD the fault of half wit LNP voters?
You appear in print to be a red neck, uninformed and nasty too.

Belly, I don't think anyone will dispose of Julia.
Who would want to be the PM who got thrashed and lost the election ?
No, Rudd will wait until the first meeting of the Labour caucus when
JUlia will be ditched and then say "I told you so !".

Good Afternoon Belly,

It's interesting as always to read the various
opinions from posters on this forum.

However I would like to cite what one commentator stated:

"Sunday's announcement of $1 billion jobs plan was a
solid policy by the government aimed at improving Australia's
patchy record of home grown manufacturing and the
commercialisation of innovation."

"The policy included a welcome re-allocation of R & D funding
away from giant mining corporations. A policy recommended by
the Business Tax Advisory Group and towards small and
medium enterprises, as well as an extra $500 million of
investment in so called "innovation precincts."

"In addition, there was $350 million in new funding for
venture capital through the Innovation Investment Fund."

We're told that "few in the media or the community are
taking notice of this government policy because shortly
after it was announced, Nielsen released an opinion poll
and in contemporary mediascape polls trump policy
every time."

Sad isn't it? But that's the game of politics. Worse than
the figures themselves, however, is the effort that the
bad poll exerted on the media cycle and on the government's
attempts to communicate its jobs and innovative policy.

What a shame that polls exert so much influence to some
people and that policies that will boost skills and
innovation so we can succeed in the Asian Century are
simply by-passed. Labor has set out its plan to ensure a
strong economy. A plan for education reform, health and
aged care and a national disability insurance scheme,
and now another one to boost skills and innovation. Does anyone
know what the Coalition's plans are for Australia?

Belly, the evidence is in the fact that, when the world, us included, started to stumble, labor decided to take an axe to IR and make employing people harder, rather than easier.

They decided that hospitality workers were being poorly treated, and decided to impose penalty rates on weekends, their busiest trading time.

Of cause this resulted in the loss of many part time jobs, jobs that were in many cases filled by mothers, who chose to work on Sunday, so dad could have some one on one with the kids.

Nowadays, you order your Sunday coffee from some kid who firstly doesn't drink coffee, and secondly doesn't care what it tastes like.

The sad part of all this is that the majority of these workers were happy with their arrangements, now they have the best award rates , with no jobs, or little hours.

Then there was the removal of the two hour shift, many of which were taken by school kids, as they finished school at 3, then worked till 5/5.30. Suited the kids, suited the employers, but not labor.

Of cause they realized they had stuffed up, and reintroduced these shifts.

If you recall I told you this would happen, way back when Julia was chaffing at the bit to chop at IR, but, as usual, I was shot down.

I also warned we would suffer from labor, and look where we have got ourselves to, IN LESS THAN FIVE YEARS.

Just think, had the independents, or wannabe independents gone the other way, there's a real chance our borders would be safe by now and we would be billions of dollars better off.

As for CN, he is only trying to fix the labor mess, brought about by years of gross incompetence.

They are a joke! Full stop!

Lexii, Given we have had years of Wayne Swan, ramming down our necks that we have FULL EMPLOYMENT NOW, where do you propose these workers will come from and, if they draw them from existing jobs, where do the replacement workers come from, as we are FULLY EMPLOYED,APPARENTLY!

Lexi,
The problem is that few, not even journalists, have any faith left in what the government says. It is all spin. The announcement is more important than actually doing it. Take the NDIS, for example, it was announced and they had no idea how to finance it. Giving all those with disabiliies a false sense of expectation.

The NBN is another, it was going to be the be all and end all in communication yet it is grossly over budget and very few are taking it up. So another very costly failure.

So our expectations of this new, you beaut, job creation scheme will fall far short as well.

From Rudds first massive immigration numbers announcement, then the scrapping of border control measures, to the present, everything has been abandoned or badly managed. All at incredible cost to us.

You cannoty blame people for not joyously receiving yet another government announcement.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/greens-pull-their-string-on-gillard-puppet-show/story-fndo317g-1226582359454
Lexi A week is a long time in politics.
The span of my life much longer.
The link demands attention.
It is some thing I have warned of from a month after Gillards installation.
Not its truths hidden in its contents, but in the fact it has already taken place, in 1975.
Just as you see in this link, some truth,in this case the basics are true, helped by Labors own actions, an arrogance is there, the thought we would not under stand or mind, the takeover of our party.
See in 1975, we, as we do now, fueled the spleen, the near hate, and in feeding public opinion with such?
It will work.
We doom our selves by thinking every one thinks as we do.
I am blacker than black, because I love my union, enough to remind it, they did wrong, and plan to reward them selves for doing it, by after our loss, placing talented bright and a good leader, after washing his hands, Bill Shorten on Gillards throne.
Power brokers in control during the smash, and rewarded and fixing their control in new Labor forever?
Most voters buy with the paper every thing including how to vote they do not think like us, and the storm of such press story's, as it came in 1975 is coming and will work, we are in for sad times.

Lexi look too at our tormentors/fellow posters here.
Rechtubs view, fixed unmovable, that it was Labor, not the whole community that wanted the end of workchoices.
If not for workchoices John Howard would still be Prime Minister, assisted as usual by his good wife, the unelected shadow PM.
Without worckchoices Labor would never have turned Howard battlers back to Labor.
KNOW Rechtub, two thirds of Liberals front bench today, did not like work choices, Abbott has pledged not to revive it.
Lexi, without Kevin Rudd even with work choices Howard , driven by his over controlling wife, would still be prime Minister.
Walk in to a workmens lunch shed, hear them talk, understand they think for them selves and I am hearing their view still in the street, it hurts.

Dear Rehctub,

You ask, "where will the workers come from?"

Perhaps from all the job cuts Liberal and
Coalition Governments are currently making.

Dear Banjo,

I'm not blaming people. As I stated earlier -
It's the media. And in mediascape - as we all
know - polls will
always trump policy every time.

Dear Belly,

You really need to get away from reading the tabloid press.
Instead of reading "The Herald Sun," try "New Madilda,"
instead.

cont'd ...

Dear Belly,

The following may be of interest:

http://newmatilda.com/2013/02/18/coalitions-hypocrite-economics

Lexi,

It is interesting that you had once again to stoop to quoting from the New Matilda before you could find a commentator that thought that this Job's policy was a good idea.

The tax rebate of $1bn on R&D ensures that many more $bns are spent in Aus to give the country a competitive edge. Replacing this with toothless contract policemen and screeds of paperwork to provide some protectionism is stupid beyound belief.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I prefer to go and read as many different
opinions on issues as I can. And I find that
New Matilda is a welcome relief from newspapers
like The Australian and the Herald Sun - the
tabloid press - which usually only presents
the same strident and predictable point of
view. Unlike
yourself who is only capable of quoting from the same old
tired narrow-minded script.

You criticisms therefore cannot be
taken seriously by any thinking person
until you change your agenda and tactic
because it's obvious to all, that you do have
an agenda.

Lexi,

I am probably far wider read than you. While I read the Australian, I also read the SMH, the Age, the ABC, the Telegraph, various financial papers, the new york times, Time magazine, Newsweek, New Scientist, Scientific American, etc. All I see from you is the same old drudge from your favourite blog which is a collection of left wing opinion pieces and polemics, singularly deviod of fact or reference. Your agenda is also far from subtle.

Every article I read points to this initiative being a cynical piece of feel good window dressing, pandering to the unions, and probably costing the country far more jobs than it creates.

Lexi the impact new Matilda is going to have on this election is nil.
It is as biased as the Murdock trash.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/union-boss-attacks-gutless-labor-leaks/story-fn3dxiwe-1226582699808
This link, may be the end of me, long before this man was born I was an AWU member, and loved the union.
I still do,my heart is theirs.
I think I am still a life member, but maybe not so, or maybe for long.
I stand tall, charged with the understandi8ng A TRADE UNION must first serve its members, not get involved in politics.
The bright intelligent man may one day be PM.
But he has no right to call true believers such things.
THIS ELECTION IS LOST.
Let us not damage the union movement by Dennieing membership a voice.
And an opinion membership of our government and our party should not suffer Starlin like demands only one view is to be had.
Save the ALP dump power brokers now.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Again your assumptions about me are totally wrong.
As a librarian , I have access to all the titles
that you mentioned (magazines and newspapers) and then some.
And I do read them. I also have access to all sorts of
other material which I delve through regularly.

As New Matilda? We've covered this ground previously.
I've told you quite clearly in the past - it would be difficult to agree with every view expressed in the columns of New Matilda,
but it would be equally difficult to disagree with them all.
And it would be impossible to
criticise any of them as irrational or foolish.

Media ownership in Australia is notoriously narrow.
Mainstream media offers precious little diversity, and such
diversity as there is runs along predictable lines.
The economics of print and electronic media tends to drive
opinion in the direction of populism.

Some of us need a place where rational
but diverse views can be found on matter of
importance. For me - New Matilda is such a place.

You don't have to read either my posts or the links that
I provide if they offend you in any way.
Stick to writers who have the wisdom to see things your way.

Dear Belly,

Thanks for sharing your views with me.

I don't for a moment doubt your passion,
and integrity. Not sure though how this
will influence anything in politics, but
I wish you luck.

As already mentioned, R&D is a most effective avenue for innovation leading to new employment opportunities and improved productivity - both of which make us more competitive in world markets. Cutting support for R&D can only lose existing jobs and future potential jobs.
This Gillard/Swan $1Billion jobs scheme is a ruse and a mirage - all spin and no substance - and is solely aimed at regaining some of the flagging support from traditional Labor voters. They should not be fooled by it for one minute.
As also mentioned, the NBN is proving far less 'productive' than we were lead to believe it would, and the NDIS can only be implemented gradually over some years (at best) and currently lacks full commitment from State governments. Gonski's not on the radar, the MRRT is falling short, and Gillard/Swan have cut the ground from beneath single parents with kids over 8 years old - just when these kids will be needing more support, not less.
We've had enough 'spin' from this lot. Abbott will at least try to create jobs by investing in alternative energy (without a C tax). Let's give him a 'fair go'.
U.S. wages used to be double ours, now it's reversed. They're fighting over increasing the minimum wage from $7 to $9/hour. (Slave rates?) We used to be the 'lucky country'!

Lexi we are not alone.
Our words are not just seen by fellow contributors.
I am aware mine have made their way in to my formers mates.
And others, do you know Bill shorten once posted here.
Is silence in the face of perceived wrong an answer?
Can we ever reform if we the very victims of the current owners, oh yes they own, of the ALP?
I tread on broken glass.
Because I know,I am informed.
On Rudd emerging as a contender for the leadership, threats came down the chain, from his enemy in QLD, and within my workplace.
I stood by my views Kim, a truly great bloke, a hero of mine, had to go, and we needed Rudd.
There, those already anti Rudd, not his anger, not his popularity, Gillards is far worse, removed him.
Read todays heralds, all of them, discount for the New Matilda factor, self interested bias/blindness.
See we are in trouble, know it is the start of much more.
My next post will show how I would mend Labor
Continued.

If it was in my power I would put these things in place to revive the ALP, [fist know it will be done, but in my view now not after we stand in our own blood, now is the time]
Picket every court appearance of every HSU offender, call for the disbanding of that union and its remaining funds given to a brand new clean union.
Picket, in both cases, by ALP members and unions, the NSW inquiry and call for prison terms and removal of mining rights.
Inquiry into ex ALP senators roll in Sydney casino.
meeting of ALP nationally , and without threats from power brokers hold a vote on Gillards future.
Your future Lexi and mine, is to watch the joy of 2007 turn to a nightmare .
While my party,s owners fight to stop the uncovering of great wrongs they did to those they should serve not direct.
It is an election year in the AWU.

Belly, The main thing that worries me about the ALP is the large
number of AWU past office holders who are now members of parliament
and members of the cabinet.
There are also a lot who were ex officials of other unions.
I would like to know exactly what are the numbers.
I realise it is career path, but has it gone too far ?

Dear Bazz,

We are in critical times and Australia requires a
re-assessment of the relationship between labour
and capital, a re-assessment which takes into
account the politics of industrial democracy, profit,
and long term planning which allows for the proper
protection and preservation of our environment.

The only way in which the country can work properly
is for management and labour to co-operate with
one another, not condemn one another.

Unfortunately, the sad truth is that condemnation is
the only language that some members of parliament
appear to understand.

As for what kind of pollies are in our political
parties?

You might appreciate the following from Dennis
Pryor, who with his tongue lodged firmly in his cheek
exposed all the hypocrisy of our leaders and bureaucrats
in his booklet, "Political Pryorities."

The A.L.P. he wrote is made up of - Battlers, Trade Unionists,
Intellectuals, Teachers, Do-Gooders, and Apparatchiks.
He lists as their spiritual home - "At one another's throats."
Their preferred sin as - envy. And their motto : "Jobs For
The Boys."

But wait there's more. The Liberal Party he tells us is the
lawyers' party. Legal training equips members for
unlimited nit-picking when in Opposition and to employ their
forensic and rhetorical skills when in government. It's
membership apart from lawyers is made up of small business
people, big business people, stockbrokers, money marketers,
working class Tories, and old ladies. Their spiritual home
he lists as - going round in ever decreasing circles.
Their preferred sin is - greed. And their motto:
"omnia deducenda (Latin for 'everything should be deductible').

Lexi,

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=14719

This has all been tried before, never successfully. This is yet another example of labor crookery.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I did read the article by Genevieve George.

However, I happen to believe strongly in
Innovation. I believe that what the government
is doing by investing to make Australia more
productive and more competitive in increasing our
capacity to find new ways of doing business is the
key to building a modern economy based on advanced
skills and technologies.

The key to success in this
21st Century and beyond is of course investing in
Research and development. It does involve
taking considerable risks - but almost every human
advance is based on experiment, and innovation.
Miracles don't happen overnight.

"""
but almost every human
advance is based on experiment, and innovation.
Miracles don't happen overnight.
"""

Yes and nearly all of them were done in some inventors garage or back yard. But nearly all is illegal or heavily restricted now in this county thanks to all the do-gooders and lobbyists. It's all too hard!

Bazz give some thought to what you know of me.
That is what you have seen from me here.
I hope you come to the conclusion I am proud to be an ALP member, and too of the AWU.
And just maybe, you will remember it is often me, starting threads that question both.
So do you think I might lie?
To protect the name of movements I live for and love?
The AWU has given this country great politicians, Swan, now a bit past it, Shorten,close to leading, and more.
Unfortunately,UNIONS, dump dills on the ALP, to get rid of them.
It is the control of power brokers that hurts me, and my party.
The ALP, and all Unions, must understand, voters/members think far differently, than the 20% of Australians who understand politics and keep up to date.
Look deeper in to the INFAMOUS charges against unnamed Labor parliamentarians, and by inference me.
Is the control so tight so all governing, that if our opinions for our party,s good are barred from being aired?
EGO,s are hurting, but let it be so, opinions are free, and a right.
I know, with no doubt, Gillard can not win an election.
And I care enough to tell two young blokes WHO I ADMIRE STILL, EVEN WITH RUDD,S BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS Shorten and Howes to not try the Stalinist tactics on workers who think differently.
I never saw my union as a ladder, it was and is my mate a workers best mate, but silence me, no chanc3e party first.

RawMustard,

Try Googling Australian Inventions down through
the ages and see how many of them were partially
or fully government funded.
Ever heard of CSIRO?

So you want me to fund innovation with my own money so that it can be sold to highest bidder in another country and I don't even get the benefit of the knowledge behind it? How many of those inventions are made here and directly benefit us financially, lexi?

And where is the technology transfer to me "personally" for my contribution to any of it? Like tell me where I can download the whole plans to say, vanadium redox batteries? I mean, I did pay for the development didn't I? So I should be able to have all the plans no?

RawMustard,

I don't think you quite understand what
this is all about. Judging from your post
you can't seem to grasp the fact that tough
times demand creative solutions. Investing
in R & D will help find these solutions.
It's an investment to make Australia more
productive and more competitive - increasing
our capacity to find new ways of doing business
is the key to building a modern economy based on advanced
skills and technologies.

However, I think I'm speaking over your head so -
may I politely suggest that you go to a library
and ask the librarian to point you in
the direction of a basic encyclopedia
where she will show you how to look up
the history of invention. It should
explain to you what inventions are, why people
invent, how people invent, and the entire
history of invention, their benefits,
and why they are important
to our survival. Heart diseases
and other illnesses kill countless millions
every year. To solve these and other problems
people must rely on inventors and their ability
to invent.

But enough said.
Good Luck.

I know exactly what inventions are I have two of my own successfully out there in the wild working right now. You're probably walking on one of them everyday! One was good enough to be plagiarised by several foreign companies at my loss I might add. See, little guys don't have a hope in hell fighting foreign companies in foreign lands!

How many inventions do you have under your belt, Lexi?

It's you that seems to have missed the point. Simply because you're not wired that way, collective hive mind and all. Plus you wont read on new matilda what it means to come up with one so you're can't easily paste someone else's thoughts and claim to be an authority on what they actually are on your own.

A lot of the inventions and innovation you take for granted these days were done at a time when people were allowed to tinker. Tinkering is forbidden in this country today. So it's up to government institutions to bring us our new toys. What a joy that will be under a loser like the Juliar. So now we're left with foreign companies and individuals, right back where we started. Fun aint it? Going in circles that is!

You see, we've heard it all before from those parasites. It's got nothing to do with making Australia a smarter country and all to do with retaining power and stealing more money from hard working aussies.

RawMustard,

I'm sure you have us all intrigued trying to work out what invention of yours we are all likely to be 'walking on every day'. Feel like sharing?

And, good on you for using your talents 'inventively', but I'm sure you are fully aware that many discoveries require a lot more than pondering or 'tinkering' - as in biotechnology, immunology, cosmology, and a huge range of other legitimate research avenues - requiring in fact huge investments in manpower, equipment and time, as can only be provided via formal R&D facilities - whether in private 'industrial' organisations, or public organisations like the CSIRO, universities, teaching hospitals, etc. (Where would the U.S. be without NASA, JPL and MIT, etc?)

Gillard/Swan's arbitrary diversion of funds from legitimate research demonstrates not only a complete disregard for and lack of understanding of the merits and essentiality of these activities, but also devalues the worth and reasonable expectations of the individuals and organisations involved. This is more than just a significant policy back-flip. The proposed diversion of funds to a non-existent jobs-development program is pure political conjuring for no other purpose than to fool the gullible minority who may just be fool enough to be impressed by such blatant chicanery.

Research is a long-term commitment. Meddling with established funding arrangements and expectations is not only shortsighted, it is dishonourable. And, when done only for purely political purpose, it is nothing short of disreputable. (With such uncertainty, is it any wonder so many valuable discoveries end up being developed overseas?)

We expect better of our governments, including truth, and reliability.

>Tinkering is forbidden in this country today.<

How so, Mustard?

Belly, until our trade union movement elevates itself to negotiating in good faith with industry and commerce with the interests of both the 'organisation' and the 'workers' being equally paramount, progress will always be seen to be a someone's expense, and can therefore only be retarded and less than optimal. A step backward, in order to hasten more assuredly forward, is not a regression.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/she-gets-knocked-down-20130222-2ewyr.html
Saltpeter how did you come to the idea unions do not negotiate in good faith.
Been at that table? I have you clearly have not,unless you are one of the few very bad bosses, they are the few.
And after being found to under pay, not pay superannuation, some times refuse sick pay, they ALWAYS target the union, for catching the creeps out!
My link highlights the problem Labor faces.
IF we go in to a loss, ruled by Gillard, we carry her baggage for three terms in opposition.
If Rudd comes back unsupported by the current owners of my party? same result.
BUT given the support he should be given, possible victory.
HOW dare! any one say the answer is solidarity, pretend the acts of 2010 are ok, that we expect ownership not just of our party,s but us, its followers,
'LABOR VOTERS WOULD SNEER AT THIS IF ABBOTT SO ORDERED HIS VOTERS~!

Dear RawMustard,

Firstly allow me to apologise to you for making
wrong assumptions about you. I was simply going
by your previous post. Saltpetre summed things up
beautifully in his reply to you. As a librarian
I got excited at the PM's announcement of their
investment in R & D for reasons that I've already
stated. I thought it a step in the right direction.

Dear Saltpetre,

Thank You for such a well reasoned post.

Dear Belly,

I hope that you'll continue to explain things to
us from your experienced perspective so that we
can understand the situation better. Thank You.

Dear Belly,

Got your point, no problem, I have a lot of time for the trade union movement, and was a member myself for many years, and no complaints.
The movement has come a long way, particularly from the Hawke era - in his time as ACTU Secretary, in federal parliament, and particularly as PM.
But, as you indicate, there are factions, blocks, and interests which are not always in agreement, do not always see 'eye to eye' - different styles, different priorities. Hence, things like 2010 can happen 'out of the blue' - resulting possibly in 'out of the frying pan into the fire'? History will be its own judge on that.
It's pretty hard to turn back the clock, or to put the Genie back into the bottle. I think Rudd coming back as PM falls squarely into that category - near impossible - but that's only my opinion.

I believe there is room for further evolution and development in trade unionism, and with it hope of achieving even better representation in the membership and in the political wing. Fingers crossed, but it could be beneficial to the whole country.

>'LABOR VOTERS WOULD SNEER AT THIS IF ABBOTT SO ORDERED HIS VOTERS~!<

The Libs don't have that sort of following - no-one pulling strings, no one telling them how to vote, no 'factions', no 'back room' conclaves or secret movements. Lib/Nat voters decide on merit alone - merit of policies, of representation, and of results - in the clear light of day.
Abbott is only a parliamentary choice; Lib voters will make their individual decision on the merits of the whole shebang, not the one man or woman at the top.
The Greens seem to work along similar lines - but with a lot more 'networking' to get the message out to their diverse audience. Good on 'em too.
Rudd made history and opportunity; Gillard and Co 'stole a march', have faltered at the mid and the furlong, and are in disarray in the straight - the unseen cyber-jockey out of rhythm and in clear risk of falling.

The unions seem incredibly corrupt, hence the AWU problems with Wilson and Gillard. The health workers problems with Thomson, Williamson and Co. also look rather grubby. At the state level the Obeid and Macdonald affair leaves a dirty taste in everyone’s mouth. The days of Labour should be over.

SALTPETRE well said you may be suprised to know I have the same dreams for the Union movement.
And that I simply will not let dictatorship comments to those opposing Gillard.
Labor is suffering from power brokers damage in NSW noway around it, investigations currently under way, are in to pure filth who took over my party after Carr left.
I stood against them here, firmly and warned of the out come, some quested me, but no one living in this state.
I find my self no less in trouble for warning, nothing Gillard can do will turn the coming election away from near death for my party.
Awful truth, bringing the very reforms I call for now.
Rudd can win, or at least lessen the damage.
This will hurt me, but I saw threats, started by a QLD man of power, a hater of Rudd, saying not to support him.
Robinson, a good honest and bright man, now leading NSW Labor knows what I mean.
I saw those threatening , me too, threatened , jump on Kevin,s back as the polls came in.
That powerful man, his power broker followers dumped Rudd.
I believe ZERO of their reason given, his polling has never got near as low as Gillards.
Labors has a single chance no other man can turn this around.
I BEG my party to weaken power brokers, let our members cross the floor get our branches out of the hands of leaches, some have been so for 30 years.
Let us combine to fix the party not bury its smelly wrongs under our bed!

Union officials ex in my case are expected to remain silent about other unions.
That ignores this truth, our membership are not robots, they are often refugees from the true militants.
And proudly I gained by those folk wanting to change unions.
In answer to Saltpetre and another poster, who claiming they vote as told, has the idea Unions are unable to think for them selves here are my wanted reforms.Abolish, as proof we care, the HSU, force government to do it for us.
Cut union dues, extra membership will cover the cost.
Stop, [it never works] political indoctrination of members, serve more preach less.
Current moderate unions are the best they ever have been and many bosses invite them on site, in the hope of getting out of militants hands.
I see the probability damage will be done to unions by recent statements.
Quite simply, polling should be evidence enough, Rudd remains more popular than both current leaders!
How to win friends and influence people?
More likely how to get them off side.

Belly I understand your dilemma about Rudd & co, but this worries me;
You said; force government to do it for us.

Are you suggesting that governments should have the power to outlaw unions ?
That is rather dangerous, and if that idea is common in unions then I
think we have something very real to worry about.

A Royal Commission into corruption in unions would be the place to start.

I don't think Rudd wants to take over now.
If he lost and his result was worse than expected for Julia he would
be blamed, if he lost with even a good result he would be blamed.
So if he stands as leader after the election he can say "I told you so !".

Bazz I just can not get my head around your post.
What did I say EVER that made you think I said unions could force government to do any thing?
And what is this corruption thing?
My remarks meant this, the actions of the health service union, HSU ARE PURE FILTH.
Unions, to show folk with views like yours, and Rechtubs, must picket every hearing ,and demand that filth laden tool shed be disbanded.
I know, without doubt, most unions HATE the things done to members by them.
But THEY FAIL! to tell the public and thier members that!
Now AWU, first the Gillard thing,I was a member then and right back to 1963, as co delegate on the construction of the first stages of the Sydney to Newcastle then toll way, section north of Hawksbury river.
ALWAYS, a thief took us down, selling union tickets for then cash, not payroll deductions like now.
The grubby thing Gillard was with did it by by passing a Union, useing its name, and that Union AWU, on finding out called in the police, who refused or just did not want to act.
Charges could in my view be laid about corruption in the so called construction union.
It feeds on its members, always the unions that make it up today took brown paper bags, and sent its members out on needless strikes, to put it in the public eye.
I REFUSE to forgive, or forget its tipicul RAMPAGE smashing Parliament House windows in the 1990,s.
Know Bazz not all unions are like that, we reserve our strike actions till no other path exists.
Did not see you today spent too much, but new toys worth it.

Belly here is the full sentence;
In answer to Saltpetre and another poster, who claiming they vote as
told, has the idea Unions are unable to think for them selves here
are my wanted reforms.Abolish, as proof we care, the HSU, force government to do it for us.

That is clear enough !
Now I know your writing can be very convoluted and I read it a number
of times to see just what you were saying as sometimes you are very hard to understand.
The last sentence that you would like the government to abolish the HSU, is very clear indeed.
You are suggesting that the unions "force" the government to do it !

If that is not what you meant to write you should take up the
suggestion I made some time ago that you read your posts out loud to
yourself. I am not ashamed to say I do that as some grammatical errors
poke you in the eye when you do that.
I got into that habit checking WIA broadcast text.

Bazz yes true, but the fault is me, my words.
Tell me, a confirmed unionist, how would we remove this nest of grubs?
And tell me do you think it is a worth while task?
Do you think only those charged are at fault?
And what about those who paid those membership fees, for years, without true service, is that ok.
I can tell you about a visit to my local hospital, long ago, pre Rudd.
HSU never came, to a union protest! about work choices!
I did, the then leader of Unions NSW did, words of Nursing staff shocked us.
Worn out uniforms not replaced for five years, a requirement of the award they be replaced when needed.
We bluffed, on behalf of those workers, management and got it done.
We had no legal right, under work choices to intervene in another unions job.
Some one had to do the job that so called union neglectedto do.
Steps to remove a union?
Try government based on crimes against member ship, as has been done, bar from ACTU, RUN CAMPAIGN with members, to take over and disband the union starting again.
You Bazz in defending such scum, and targeting my miss used words as evidence something exists, that never did, play with the reality, this union is rotten all the way and deserves no help.
Such a conservative thinker protecting such a criminal Union is a mystery to me.

Belly, a lot depends on how widespread the corruption is.
If it is only restricted to say three or four unions then it is a job
for the ACTU. A condition for affiliation to the ACTU should be that
the ACTU could contract a firm of auditors to audit the unions books.

Now some will say that is appointing Dracular to the Blood Bank.
There could be legislation under the existing laws to take it further
then if significantly widespread rorting is found it could go straight
to prosecution.

Bazz have you ever noticed my constant demands of party and unions?
I demand here now, that both dump the dogs.
As I always have.
And always will.
Why then would I lie, about them, now, here?
No tell me, am I that stupid, to demand truth and honesty, from both but not my self?
Now Bazz, show me, other than in certain minds, not liked to truth, where is this flood of corruption.
We saw, AWU wrongly branded, over its leader in one state, twenty years ago, and the HSU, point out for me, the other corruptions you know of?
Is it ok to be a critic based on nothing, no wrongs no crimes nothing?
Governments, most probably, would not dare without support from unions, de register a union.
Now Bazz, know this, IF ANY trade union head has stolen from his/her members they should be in prison.

Lexi,

If you are well read, then the only conclusion is that you cannot find anything to support your arguments in the mainstream media or journals, and need to refer to the hare brained and poorly researched "opinion" pieces in the New Matilda.

There are no respected financial experts that think that this policy is anything more than populist window dressing.

SM as you are aware, New Matilda is biased, abit to the left of me.
But as you will not admit, Murdock press, indeed most, is too.
Our Gina, thank providence her good health can not last, wants to buy influence, to miss use it no less than Murdock, and his dad did/do.
I feel this morning, like I am in a movie, watching a remake of the years 1972 till 1975.
Then, absolutly as is the case now, Labor assisted in its own down fall.
Media, some then owned by an openly bigoted Packer.
Both reported Labors failures, and magnified them,even inventing them.
No need then or now, for that,the ALP has its own destruction well in hand.
I like Lexi now, held the view Voters knew about the railroading of Labor, that we would win.
Points to me for faith, misplaced.
I for that reason HIGHLIGHT Labors sleeping on the job/self destruction.
May my years of hurt ahead, be rewarded as the election of Hawk did so, the crying of Big Mal,and his lack of the ability to use the total power in both houses he had.
HSU? NSW FILTH? and as big a fraud committed by Union control of my party? installation of this tough but lacking skills Gillard.
September will be a black month for me and my country.
We all know do we? 50% of votes in ALP conferences MUST GO TO UNIONS?
So Paul Howes can ORDER folk in the house to STOP THINKING FOR THEM SELVES.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I beg to differ. Perhaps you're not looking
far and wide enough. I cited from New Matilda
because the article was by an economist of
good repute who not only teaches at the University
of Canberra but is involved in policy development
and knows what he's talking about. Had you bothered to
read the article you would have also been able to read
the man's background - which is impressive. And if
you have read it - then I can only assume you're
simply stirring and trying to provoke me.

Therefore your arguments have no substance
as far as I'm concerned.
I don't expect you to do anything else but keep repeating
the same old same old mantra just don't expect me
to take you seriously.

BTW: Are you Gerard Henderson?

Lexi,

You obviously didn't do your homework.

The New Matilda author Ian McAuley, while having done some economics is not an economist, and only a lecturer in public finance. Similarly the "centre for policy development" can be described as a club for left wing bloggers that possibly might meet occasionally, but generally publish individual opinion pieces, and as far as I can see, have yet to publish anything that can be described as a policy document, or do anything that warrants the august title they have given themselves.

Based on this, your arguments are vacuous, without substance, and cannot be taken seriously.

Belly,

The Labor party was the main architect of its demise. Claiming that the Australian is biased because it reports on the bleeding obvious stuff ups of the Rudd/Gillard government, and has not been shy in criticising the Coalition during its term.

Note that Murdoch for the past decade publically supported the Labour government in the UK, and employs as commentators Graham Richardson, Cassandra Wilkinson, Troy Bramson, all from the Labor party, etc.

The Murdoch press is biased towards common sense and good policy, which Labor has been lacking. To call it biased is simply shooting the messenger

SM I take it for4 granted, that producer of Sunday morning pavement pizzas out side a pub, the Australian, is in your opinion, the hidden one, as biased as any paper world wide.
Unfortunately, the three wise Monkeys of the ALP are not wise.
Gillard can not hear the polls, Shorten sees no evil, in his factions actions, And while many want the third Moneys seat, I can not separate Swan and Cretin Crean, those two refuse to even contemplate the thought of those who sent them in to the house.
Monkeys yes wise never.

Dear Shadow Minister,

So the Murdoch press is not biased in your
opinion, but New Matilda is?
Well then there's nothing more to discuss.

cont'd ...

BTW: Are you Gerard Henderson?

Lexi,

It was noticeable before 2007 that the coalition was under the spotlight and was not always happy with reporting, and the criticism of the "Murdoch" press by Labor was almost non existent. Suddenly after 2007, when labor is exposed in the spotlight the Australian and other news organisations become the evil empire. There are general accusations of bias with almost no examples of actual errors. Notably the Australian has run many articles critical of the coalition, and the major findings that brought down Thomson, and exposed the AWU scandal did not originate with the Murdoch press.

The concept of bias cannot be based on the lack of commentary from both sides, but on the reader's prejudices.

On the contrary, the new matilda has exclusively posted commentary supportive of the left and critical of the right. Further to this, it is entirely comprised of opinion pieces or polemics. It is never original and often silly.

More to the point SM, While I agree about NM , you surely concede Murdock and his machine driven by his own views is unbalanced.
A truth here is papers such as the Telegraph and Australian, feed the uninformed.
It is more than likely, as we some times see here, every word, even the tainted ones, is taken as true by some.
However it takes very little thought, even understanding, to see Gillard is heading for an iceberg.
Powered by a power brokers determination , NOT TO REVERSE an act of treason, and not to,LET Rudd prove them wrong.
I bet - post election their talk as I do now, in an attempt to say it was not me, shallow words from shallow men in Suits reminding us Labor is owned by them not its membership.

Dear Shadow Minister,

It's a strange paradox that, while we live in a
torrent of information, there's such a limited
range of available news. As I've stated previously
media ownership in Australia is notoriously narrow
and mainstream media offers precious little diversity.
I fully agree with your statement that what many people
choose to read is very subjective.

However, say what you will I still think that although
it would be difficult to agree with every view expressed in
the columns of New Matilda, it would be equally difficult to
disagree with them all. And it would be impossible to
criticise any of them as irrational or foolish.

I've enjoyed our robust discussion and shall see you on
another thread

I have a gut feeling I stand in a corner, not far from Richo, in my god friend Lexis mind, on this matter.
I am comfortable in that spot.
Gillard is trotting around Sydney, shaking hands talking to folk, who have no intention to vote for her.
Nice smiles, false words of praise, she see,s them all.
But let us look, this was the HEART of FEDERAL ALP!
Along with Rudd,s Queensland, it won us office, in the not soon to be repeated 2007 joy slide.
Tony Abbott, the man so many fear, on both sides, has got Gillards measure.
As bad as he is!
Read what you wish, but confront our fate.

Dear Belly,

Don't worry - I'll still luv ya... as I
have to date.

I'm simply stirring all those who insist on
bagging the PM and Labor.

Besides what right does the PM have to go visit
Labor's heartland in Sydney's West during
an election year just because the party deems it
necessary. After all Sydney doesn't have any probs
as we all know. And Mr Abbott up until recently
didn't have a camera following him around all over
the place.

Lexi, Belly,

All that can be asked of a news organisation is that it report the facts without fear or favour. The Australian has done this, and the Australian and associated newspapers have done this. Neither labor nor the Greens have produced one jot of evidence to the contrary. The NM does not meet this criteria by a country mile, with many articles that are extremely foolish.

With Labor's constant bungling, the coalition has strategically chosen to take a low profile and allow Labor to be judged on its record. That low profile means that 'most anything newsworthy is about Labor.

Dear Shadow Minister,

After reading your last post I was going to
go into great detail in my reply to you but
then I changed my mind because I mean -
what would be the point. So instead this
will have to do - it sums up my perception of
you:

Nothing in the world can take the place of
persistence. Talent will not. Nothing is
more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not: unrewarded genius is almost
a proverb. Education will not: the world is
full of educated derelicts. Persistence and
determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan
"Press On" has solved and always will solve
the problems of the human race.

You seem to hold that thought and no matter
what - you keep on doing your job
on this forum. As Gerard Henderson would say:
"Well, somebody has to do it!"

First SM if you owned a paper would you use it to get your views seen.
Now do not be naughty, the answer as it is for that demented dwarf Murdock.
YES.
Lexi we are getting in to both a hurting and a gloating time.
The SM s of this world think a twisted form of Liberalism/Tea Party/Conservatism is perfect.
We will witness the dread this country,s center and left,even and highlighted, true Liberals will suffer.
And mid term American elections will show most NEVER WANTED OR EXCEPT Tea Party politics.
Our turn to by just reviewing the madness of a government, is coming to gloat.
Elections such as this, such as recent state ones deliver both a warning to Labor to reform, and in time, new followers upset at being conned by the scrambled eggs policy's of those SM loves.

Dear Belly,

I'll see you on another thread.

This one has now run its course for me.

No worry s Lexi, I think you are right.
But before leaving have this to say.
Yes Labor is to fall, Gillard and her supporters have ensured that.
But it is laughable to see, in advance, the thoughts of many after they are forced to confront they elected no Halo wearing team.

Lexi,

I cannot put my finger on what you are trying to say, but if you are trying to impute that I am a embittered intellectual that has not reached his goals, I guess the 6 figure salary, international work, and kids at top private schools will have to console me. I also gather you have nothing to support your NM author.

Belly,

You seem to love displaying your ignorance. it appears that you think that the tea party is the opposite of Labor, whereas the tea party is the party of red-neck working class religious conservatives who have more in common with you than me.

As for hare brained half Rsed policies, you would struggle to surpass the dross that Labor has served up in the last half decade. I look forward to Juliar remaining PM and leading Labor to an historic defeat.

I will write slowly SM try to keep up.
It is my considered view Abbott is from a faction within the Liberal party.
That faction, in my view proved by its membership, note Corry is only hidden after his gaff not gone, is of the Tea Party type.
A faction of true Liberals has been under threat,all over Australia, NSW has seen branch stacking and even internal charges of assult.
I constantly.
Yes you can not challenge truth.
Challenge, highlight, and force my party,s wrongs down their throat, you are incapable of doing that with yours.
It is the very nature of your party, and they do it well,far better than Labor, to Dennie its wrongs and hide them.
I could,even you could, if honesty was part of your make up, target dreadful acts, crimes,on your side.
I know this, it is not the right time for me to do it, see it would look like I am trying to take the heat from Labor.
That would be to betray my party,it needs the flame of that fire to clean its very guts out.
Contemplate however the nature of your WA/QLD/VIC teams governments.
Tell us of Newman lost members his minister and her sons activity's.
Talk to me about the ex Labor senator,a power broker, who left after trashing Rudd.
Then working for Packer?! got your state Premier to gift one hundred million dollars! by not getting true value from the casino?
Tell me of the minister linked to filth Obied on your side.
Tell me SM, do you care? Obied has this past week got permission via your team in NSW to go ahead with multi million dollar development on mid north coast.
Do you understand to target only my side is ignoring activity's that should shame you.

Belly,

You are really grasping at straws:

The planning council re zoned an entire area which included the Obeid farm, the planning for which had been on the books since 2007. Are you suggesting that planning should stop until all holdings by corrupt Labor stooges are determined?

Secondly Sinodinus's links to labor corruption are so tenuous that the far stronger links to corruption for Carr, Juliar, Robertson, Shorten, etc would leave virtually no Labor pollies standing.

Newman's dismissal of ministers that behave inappropriately is in stark contrast to the blind eye to rampant cronyism, influence peddling, and corruption in the Bligh, Carr, and Gillard governments.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I'm sorry that you didn't understand my last post.
But that is your problem not mine.
Or perhaps an intelligent
man such as yourself is simply being facetious.

As for your claim of a six figure salary, your children going to
private schools, et cetera. I guess you've got every right to be
happy with those things.

I'm equally happy to have a husband
who loves me, who helped me while both of us worked full-time,
and saw me complete my university degrees and end up
with a promotion in a job I love, two children that we've raised who
are decent human beings, three grandchildren, and the list goes on.

As for the New Matilda author that you keep referring to.
I've already told you my reasons for choosing that article.
If you need more information on Ian McAuley - you can Google
him on the web. And his background is
impressive.

I shall not be responding to you any further.
I have to take things easy for the next couple of days
prior to going into hospital.

Dear Belly,

Take care and All The Best.

Points for effort but if you, the debate still rages, are as smart as you claim, you will know the Obied clan have been criminals for longer than that.
True Labor supporters should ask why the filth ever joined the party if not to use it and thousands of folk like me.
A crime in my view supported by your team has taken place.
Too the thirty thousand donation by an Obied controlled water firm, to you team, and the appointment of a senator to that firm, yours of course.
Vic has its problems will Liberals and well done! you and your team ignore it, climbing over the body of dishonesty in your team to Labor.
What will the links be? when your team sells out QLD health who of you will own it?

Belly,

Stop applying labor standards to the coalition.

Lexi,

I wish you well for your hospital stay and hope for a speedy recovery.

As for Ian McAuley, I have googled him, and am surprised how little it takes to impress you. A junior lecturer at a minor university is hardly an towering intellect.

I also see that the "centre for policy development" is essentially an off shoot of the New Matilda, and is run by the same motley mob of disaffected intellectual feather weights (with the sole exception of Julian Burnside).

I said that I believed that you solely source your material from the NM because it is the only source that says what you want to hear.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Thank You for your well wishes and I'm very optimistic
that all will go well with the procedure of Cardioversion.
That it will give me my life back.

As for Ian McAuley? I wasn't aware that the University
of Canberra was a "minor institution," and the CPD
attracts a wide diversity of writers and thinkers who
present new ideas. A progressive think tank in fact.
But there you go. Your opinion is different to mine
obviously.

The same goes for New Matilda. I do not look
for views that agree with mine, on the contrary, I look
for views that are well reasoned. Views that make me think.
Hence my love of New Matilda - which is such a great
contrast to the predictable narrow views of the tabloid press.

I have always found it important to renew dignified and
respectful dialogue with those who do not agree with us than
to keep slavishly congratulating those who have the
wisdom to see things our way.

The exception that I do make to this are of course those
who choose to be illogical and abusive posters. Those
I usually tend to walk away from.

Once again dear SM, see you on another thread, once I get back.

Lexi I too wish you the best in your fight.
While not yet diagnosed I spend part of this day in a cancer hospital for an infusion.
I do so happy to fight and if it is to be so, not win.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/obeids-worker-of-miracles-to-be-put-in-spotlight-20130303-2feha.html
My link this morning is to me at least one every one should read.
It, in my view must be read by every ALP member in this country.
It SHOUTS to me why?.
Why did such folk join my party if not to assist in the continuing crimes they inflict.

Too it begs for reform, true open honest reform, and questions the cultural crime SOLIDARITY has become in my party nationally.
How hiding such filth, in SOLIDARITY'S NAME serve the memory of our great founders?
And tell the public, please find a voice, and tell the public, now before our near death, we are not all like this, they need to know.
And we need to aquire a skill lacking in our federal and state party,s,informing voters of why things are as they are.

Good luck to both of you.

I look forward to Lexi expanding her reading, and to Belly's abandoning the corrupt labor and voting Liberal.

Lexi in confronting Shadow Minister we face a man who can see no wrong, on his side of the fence.
And I am afraid a man who owns the most inflated and over valued ego I have yet seen.
A look, quite impossible for our opponent, at the current Victorian scandal, will confirm, not just SM, but a whole class of stone throwers live in glass houses.

Nice try Belly.

I have never claimed that the coalition are perfect, only streets ahead of Labor.

Whatever you dredge up combined will only be a tiny fraction of a Thomson, Obeid, or many other labor crooks.

Concept is over your head.
Tried many times to get you to talk about it but you seem not to unde stand/care.
Are there consequences for only seeing one sides wrongs?
Is it not clear to you and the world, if we target our opponents, but not our own wrongs, think about it.
In time our team weakens, is not held to account, need not fear our asking questions.
Our press barons,funny name for influence peddling filth, do not put much work in to the increasing criminal nature.
OFF Some in your party.
My waterloo, renamed GILLARD /NSW filth has opened a door that will bring grief for decades.
Your side must confront its recent headlines and see its turn is coming.
SM this country needs every politician to be an open book or we take second best from them.
I unlike you will never say its OK its my mob.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-21/green-imminent-assassin-or-final-shield/4530342
Interesting, honest, and as near the truth as we will get.
Until Gillard, and the horse she rides, carry the ALP in to a hurting place.
Then, not until then, we will hear and see the truth, from todays infection within the ALP.
see SM? it never hurt, in fact I may be deceiving my self, but I rather think ten thousand voices should join me, to fight the infection.

I invite, in the name of balanced debate, SM or any of the right of right Conservative posters to talk of the Victorian situation.
Not as an attempt to hide Labors problems, no one could do that.
But to show Liberals Nationals Conservatives and Tea Party followers.
Can see fault lines in their team to.

Belly,

I have always maintained that I don't need to dwell on the liberal party's as the Labor supporters will ensure that even the smallest issue is broadcast.

However, it Looks as though TB completely lost control of the party mechanism, and the new premiere needs to assert his control and stop this Labor type rot.

I think that the liberals here are done, but with still 3 years to go have some chance to turn the boat around, but then will probably lose to Labor.

As for the payment to TW, this should have been completely above board. Then no fingers could have been pointed. Now it just looks sleazy.

IS not looks bloke.
Comments please Newman has not ruled out Costello,s firm, buying the government stuff he advises should be sold.
Being assured of victory, riding high in the saddle, has its down side.
Your mob usually hides its wrongs not shows them, my time will come.

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/nsw-act/day-the-obeids-rode-into-town/story-fndo4bst-1226591917478
A link, that in my view screams for all of us, to read and understand.
This country, led by pure filth in my party/faction risks both sides sliding in to a shocking place.
The land mentioned is not all that far from me.
I know it well.
Nothing can take the pain of Labor allowing such filth to infiltrate it.
Or lessen the pure fear, no other words fit, that reform may not take place, maybe ever, but not for sure, until Gillard is just a memory.
However, this land, was passed under this Liberal government.
And we all should know, we face a future of shame, unless we see very long term imprisonment of many involved in this sham.
unlikely, filth buys influence, from both sides.

Belly,

Please get your facts straight. The firm which Costello is a partner does work for other companies, a few of which MIGHT be in a position to submit an offer in am open tender for state assets if they should be sold. The claim of conflict of interest is extremely tenuous.

If the proviso for anyone doing this audit was that they had never worked for any large company, you would rule out anyone of consequence.

See? SM is trying to change the headline story.
Labor is in deep, we hopefully will take our licks and get up get reforms in place and get back on top.
BUT note too this last few months are warning us, the infection is now within Liberal governments in 3 east coast states, we do not deserve victory because the other side is bad, as the no policy's Liberals get.
But after reforms the victory's are assured.

Belly,

"SM is trying to change the headline story."

Really? what have I said that is incorrect? Do I have to use the L word?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/woman-who-went-missing-allegedly-helped-moses-obeid-secure-debt-vote-20130308-2fr2o.html
This link too needs a look.
It highlights a truth.
That a son of the right wing ALP power broker [let no man say he was not that]Obied, and a familly trait, theiving from us all.

SM missed your post in the rush to be honest.
To post a link about a thief.
A thief from a nest of thieves, unlike any thing we have ever seen.
A family that infiltrated my side of politics,and used us as toilet paper.
But too is linked to yours, along with many much smaller, but no less contemptible, crimes from within your side.
I fear/think I see a start to your team being as infected as Labor was, will be until the post Gillard era reforms.
I write to demand honesty in politics,for every Australian.
You claim a sainthood for your team.
In doing so your grant immunity to any acts from your team.
And as hipocrits do, take the sword to my team.

Belly,

I always find it amusing that you make these vague and dark accusations with no substance. The difference between the liberal party and labor is the way that improper acts are handled.

For example Carr tries to distance himself from Obied, but was instrumental in making Obied a cabinet minister. When Huge questions came up in the press with regards Obied's murky dealings what did Carr do? he dropped him from cabinet.

Did he investigate the allegations? No
Did he move to dis endorse him from the senate? NO
Did he take any further action? No

When Slipper's questionable use of entitlements came to the fore, the coalition forced him to repay the money, dropped him from senior roles, and when repeated disendorsed him from pre selection. What did Labor do, they knew his record and accepted him with open arms.

As for Thomson, there were serious allegations and he still was pre selected.

For Liberal MPs, misconduct carries consequences, for Labor they are swept under the carpet.