paleif, I absolutely listen to PF's views. He/she has been very informative. And knows a great deal more about the industry than me.

There are always two sides to a story, and pig housing is not going to go away. In this light, the overall welfare benefit by banning stalls is not evident. According to veterinary associations.

Why did the RSPCA leave it until the last minute to submit their proposal?

Rojo
Yes We agree that PF knows far more than us. There are not many pig farmers prepaired to do the right thing as far as I can see.
I should think if PF would agree to take over the post about pig farming that would be best.
I would still like to add the ocashional comment - Like Stuff the AVA and APL.
Yes I will put my time to educating the public. "Sure I will". Nothing will educate them like a nice big court case about Animal Welfare.
If you get the right legal beagles you can draw international press.

And I dont care what a bunch of kids just geting out of Uni are told to say either.
As I said the AVA must pay.
So theres your new logo Rojo.

"Why even a loss will be a win for Australian Animals."

ALP and others need to grow up.

If they think there is no trade for Fresh Free Range Pork and Poultry they are living in as Rudd Would say" The black and white days of TV.
All WE Need is somebody to host the first Free Range Pork Education school.
I am sure the RSPCA and the H Soceity would be happy to do the accreditations.
Rojo I dont know why RSPCA listed their sub at the last minute.
Probably because they are busy people.
Why what are you suggesting.?
I can only say personally I contacted Dr Hugh Wirth zillions of times about my MOU with AFIC to work towards fazing out live exports through increased carcuss trade to Me etc.
He never replied- not Once in Years.
Hes no longer there.
So who is next?

Rojo – I didn’t accuse anyone of telling porkies, I happen to agree with the DPI view, I simply pointed out that people will choose to ignore such advice when it suits them and that I think it unfair that only pigs are singled out for this attention when the same applies to other farm animals.

You are absolutely right – pigs are amazing feed converters, but, they don’t have to be kept in stalls to do that they, they perform just as well in a natural environment. Sure, their diet is different to an intensive pig with adjustments necessary to the DE and DE / Protein ratios to allow for the energy they expend.

With regard to “the qualifications of the people quoted” I find it interesting that not only do APL feel the need to employ a PR company (that do not actually state who the represent), they have also set up an anonymous website http://www.sowstalls.com.au that would lead people searching on the subject to believe that the same sort of information has come from many sources when in fact APL are behind the lot. A quick look on whois confirms this.

The RSPCA submitted their proposal a long time ago. I suppose they could see the writing on the wall with the new code and their last minute proposal was to try and have the 10 year faze in period reduced.

APL
When Woolworths suddenly work out that they are loosing their customers to ' Other Stores' Who agree to only sell Free Range Pork and poultry what are you going to do then huh?

When The Australian People all drive around with `complimentary signs` on their back windows and pictures of pigs in cages at intensive farming with Sold At @@.

Right at the same time the others are advertsing Free Range huh?

By the way Rojo you asked why the State Government would not do the right thing etc
For The Same Reason The Church Leaders are for ever silent about Animal cruelty.> GRANTS AND VOTES! Shame!

I agree it can not be fazed out over night. Umm
Well maybe not.
Do you know why overseas "are interested" in our meat products Rojo.?
Because they have seen the results of intensive farming and are fAR more aware of Diseases.
Where do you think the Bird Flue and other diseases come from?
From overseas of course.
Why because they have been around much longer and they are mostly intensive farming.
A huge mistake which the whole world is going tp pay for one day.
Overseas ARE interested In Free Range Pork and Carcuss from Australia.
Isnt that right? APL. They are very interested in all Free range Products and want to meet with Farmers direct!

APL Do you really? think there are not other people in this world that would like to take over your monopoly of the industry?
Think Again.
I suggest you contact Woolworths etc and involve them in diverting to free Range.,
They are involved in petrol food so they if smart will see they really dont have a option.
Or you could just sit there and wait. Of course we will have our own PAL. Pork Australia Limited by then.

"Sure I will". Nothing will educate them like a nice big court case about Animal Welfare.
If you get the right legal beagles you can draw international press."

pale - to be able to take legal action against someone would require that they are first doing something illegal. Sow stalls are legal. Seems like a huge waste of time and money to me that could be better spent educating the public in other ways.

PF, the way I read the initial article it says the rspca's proposal is to stop using stalls altogether.
If they only wanted to shorten the faze in period down from 10 years, fair enough.

paleif,
The ministerial council had input from various bodies including the CSIRO, vet and animal rights groups. Surely the outcomes have reasonable transparency. I notice they didn't increase protection from activists in the "Protect Animal industries from Disruptive activities" topic. You could take that as a win.

"Why even a loss will be a win for Australian Animals."
Yes very catchy logo, I'm sure it will take off.

The clean green image of Australia is one of our greatest assets and is a result of our isolation and border security. The professionalism of our farming systems means clean down procedures are implemented before visitors are permitted entry. It could be argued that intensive farming discourages disease spread since they are "isolated" systems.
A report on the UK Foot and Mouth disease outbreak identified sheep as the main spreading vector, they would be the least intensively farmed animal of all. The outbreak origin was traced to a small mixed farm using swill as a ration for pigs from a nearby restaurant.
I don't see any links to intensive farming as the problem.

Japan, arguably the fussiest food market, loves our feedloted beef.