RSPCA Are Meeting to day with Ministers.
Read Full Story Here
http://www.farmonline.com.au/news_daily.asp?ag_id=41965

It is about time this practise was stopped once and for all.

paleif, from the article:

"The pork industry uses sow stalls to limit aggressive behaviour between sows, to prevent accidental crushing of piglets by the sow, and to enable individual monitoring of sows."

How are the piglets protected without the stalls?

Same as wild piglets are, by giving the mothers plenty of room.

Maybe thats why they have such big litters then, to combat losses.

Unfortunately our modern day breeding and farming involve keeping temperatures for the pigs within certain parameters which for most necessitate housing. Both stalls and group housing have pluses and negatives. Injury/death is reported to be less with stalls due to the aggression of sows during pregnancy in a group situation. Group housing permits a more natural and presumably comfortable existence. Unless you are trampled by a 200kg sow.

The code of practice the RSPCA are against is an actual reduction of stall use to a max of 6 weeks during pregnancy. The RSPCA want it banned altogether. A difficult situation when some sows are very aggressive.

Rojo
What A load of Bull!
Here is a Pig Farmer who changed from intensive Back to Free range. its a big supplier.

Murray Free Range Piggery
15 Davis Lane Strathmerton Vic 3641
Phone: 03 5874 5229
Email: blklmurray@mcmedia.com.au
http://www.freerangefarmers.com/freerange/pigs_vic.html

Murray Free Range Piggery is located at 15 Davis Lane Strathmerton Vic is owned by BL & KL Murray. Five permanent staff work the 500 sow farrow to finish free range piggery with no other farming activities done.

With reference to the family history on top of what I have already told you about Dads farming history, his father was the original person to begin the pig farming in the family.

Grahame Murray a return soldier settler and farming industry entrepreneur tryed many different farming techniques and practices. He settled with pigs in an intensive style setup creating a large intensive farm. Bernard and Kerry after gaining a trade returned to the farm with his Brother and eventually took over. Bernard went his own way in 1995 moving out to Strathmerton beginning the free range pig farm. Bernard has been farming pigs for well over 30 years but changed over from intensive pig farming to free range pig farming around 12 years ago and has never looked back. The farm maintains a minimum disease status and is Quality Assurance accredited. Currently we sell to Castlemaine Small goods who sell our product as free range hams and bacons which you can find in all Woolworths, Safeway stores through out Australia.

Web Site Design & Hosting Donated by webdesign-24-7.co

Rojo – Most sow aggression is caused by sheer frustration at their confined conditions. Group housing in farms that I am aware of, are a sham. Sows packed in so tight they still cant move. In deed, far more dangerous than a sow stall, but just as inhumane.

The only thing that will protect them and their piglets from harm is space, something the intensive pig farmers have no intention of providing.

Anyway, it would make it all too difficult to administer all those drugs they need to stop rampant disease and to manipulate their growth wouldn’t it?

PF
Thank you.
What do you suggest would be the very best approach to pig farming that people could follow?
That is -if those people had a totally free hand and the funds behind them.
Would you recomend lots of small free range farms for example?

If so how could a School For Agriculture etc be established do you think?
Are there enough people in Australia in your opinion to give lectures on free range pig farming?

Do you think some of the already established Free Range Pig Farmers would be prepaired to perhaps turn part of their farms into Education Agriculture Farms if all costs were met and of course they were also receiving an income from the schools?

Do you know any free range pig farmers who would discuss the possibilty of any of the above with people from Russia for Eg.

Would you be concerned that a market ought be established for the sale of Free Range Pork To companies such as Aldi or Woolworths etc before opening more Free Range pigs Farms?

If overseas adult students for example trained in these schools with a view to establish free range Pig Farms how long would you envisage a course would take to complete.

.

Many questions Sorry

Rojo, there is a great deal of scientific evidence readily available which states that pigs are, at the very least, as intelligent, sensitive and curious as dogs. Friends I know who have pigs attest to that.
Do you keep your dog in a steel and concrete structure for most of its life? Would you claim that such monstrous cruelty is justified on "welfare" grounds? Of course not. Would you feed it drugs that are just to enable it to survive in these appalling conditions? Then, when it is "past its use by date", would you haul it out to a truck (depending on whether it is still able to walk) to be carted off to slaughter? I'd love the RSPCA to hear about that. I just read a story on an ABC Rural News archive in which a NSW pig farmer stated his stalls were "5-10cms too short". If you cannot even comply with your own code of practice now, what hope have the millions of pigs in Australia got over the next 10 years in which you are to be permitted to use these atrocious farming methods?
You need to wake up to public opinion, as the largest producers in the US, Canada, the UK and the EU have done. My family has refused to buy any pork or ham products because we have not been able to source any free range ones here in Tasmania. This is the reality that is out there, and it is growing. Deal with it.
From Jenna

PF,
No, aggression is a result of hormonal change during pregnancy. Logically they wouldn't be penned to avoid aggression injuries if the pens were the initial cause of aggression.
You are correct that the stalls enable individual attention to the animals.

Jenna,
If you read the post closely we are not talking about "most of it's life" . We are talking weeks, during pregnancy.
Free range pigs can be grown where climate allows, perhaps Tas. is too cool.
You seem to be under the impression I grow pigs, I don't. I don't have a dog either. And yes pigs are relatively intelligent.

paleif,
Bull? perhaps Boar is more appropriate. I don't believe anything I've said is false.

I'm overwhelmed by the number of free range pig producers on the site. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking free range, it just constitutes a few percent of pig production.
It just happens that for the reasons I expressed, not all areas are suitable for free range pig husbandry. Cold/drizzly and hot/humid conditions are not in the welfare interests of the animal. Some form of housing is required.
Not every producer would have the space to convert to free range even if they could in suitable areas.

Free range will have a growing market niche much like the organic industry, and good luck to them.

No, rojo, aggression due to hormonal changes will present itself after the birth, not before in most cases. I currently have 85 sows in a dry sow paddock, all pregnant, no aggression.
Were did we get the idea that pigs require housing? It certainly isn’t for the pigs benefit in my view, only for that of the intensive farmer. Keeps the animal contained so there is minimal handling (which means minimal staff) and they can cram hundreds of them into a tiny little area. We have a situation now were pigs are just massed produced and as with anything mass produced, they are priced accordingly. Feed amounts to 70% of the value of a pig, why then is it the cheapest meat on the market. Well yes, the poor quality of the meat produced from intensive farms does have something to do with that. Intensive farmers need to get off the treadmill and take a good look at what they are doing.

If an area of the country is unsuitable for raising pigs then it just shouldn’t happen. Do we build huge sheds for sheep and raise them under artificial conditions just because we decided to grow them in an unsuitable area? No, we grow them in areas suitable for their needs, so why should pigs be treated any different? There is already an outcry over the few ultrafine,coated sheep that are shedded, imagine if they were now kept in little stalls to cram even more into the shed. Would never happen would it

PF,
Yes, I do use the term pregnancy too loosely as stalls are used pre and post birth. Obviously they are no longer pregnant after birth. My mistake.

Who says re: housing?

http://202.139.150.50/JustTheFacts_522_14_2_0.html

This site suggests 3-5% of Australia is suitable for free range production.
And the Vic DPI say cold/drizzly and hot/humid climates are unsuitable.

I suspect the price differential is more to do with consumption/head in Australia being 40% less than that of either beef or chicken. That and the 80 000 tonnes of pork meat imports.

Pork producer numbers have fallen from 50 000 in 1960 to 2000 today. Is it a reflection on the labour component?

Rojo - The link you have given is to an article from Wilkinson Media, a public relations company – in other words, paid spin doctors for Australian Pork Limited. APL are well known for the tactics used to try and justify their existence and defend an indefensible industry. Of course they are going try and discredit free range farming, it makes them all look pretty bad. That article is nothing but propaganda in my opinion.

Cold/drizzly, hot/humid weather is also unsuitable for sheep, in fact pigs will cope much better with those conditions than will the sheep. Does that stop people farming in these conditions though? No it doesn’t. Why single out pigs?

Pork prices have changed very little during those years. The quality of intensively produced pig meat does nothing towards growing the industry and increasing consumption. I believe that intensive farmers are slowly killing the pork industry and now with the latest consumer must have – a social conscience – the end of factory farming is much closer than they realize, they just have their heads firmly in that sand right now.

If APL put as much energy into market research as they do into defending the intensive farmers, they will find that a lot of consumers have simply stopped eating pork for both animal welfare concerns and their own health.

Australia pork limited and Austrade working together. See Searches
APL [ The indusrty and the Government put Millions of the tax payers money into marketing and Promting Overseas.

Unfortunetly they only push the Industry thats involved in intensive farming. The Public Are paying For this without their consent and mostly their knowledge.
There is NO marketing that I am Aware of or funds going into the Smaller Free Range Pork.

In the interests of the fair Go Aussie Sytem we Call upon Austrade and The Government to spend at least half of the public funds on promoting Free Range Pork.

Also In the Interests of Animal Welfare.

The Same exsists regarding other meat Industrys.

The public would like to see some of their own funds going towards promoting co joint free range Farms Of All Types In Australia.

It has been my own expereince that this is something they refuse to do.

Rojo
There are ast least three free range farmers posting so I dont get your point.
You have already read about the large company that changed from Intensive Farming to Free Range.
As farmers I should think they might know.

Also you are exchanging posts with a pork Farmer so why not at least listen
' Surley that will not hurt either of us.
We are happy to learn
Also the picture tells a thousands words applies.

Intensive pig farms are cruel.

Thats a fact.

I will continue to lobby the Government for at least 50 percent of the public funds spent to promotre overseas products be Free Range. Surley that is fair.

Half the public funds spent on p-rompoting free Range Pork and half On Intensive.

Mind You its quicker and easier without them

There is HUGE interest in Australias Free Green Meats products and that what the intensive and live blokes know and fear! the farmers will realise and do their own marketing.

Wouldnt that put a fly in their ointment!

These farmers can do without the Government mate and the public.

Its Us who cant do without them.

http://www.farmonline.com.au/news_daily.asp?ag_id=42072


Breaking Rural News : LIVESTOCK

Pork's animal welfare code endorsed
Australia
Friday, 27 April 2007

The Federal Government has endorsed the pork industry's new Model Code of Practice for the Welfare of Animals, despite a push from animal welfare groups to have the use of sow stalls immediately banned.
The RSPCA made the last-minute push before last Friday's meeting of the Primary Industry Ministerial Council (PIMC), saying sow stalls were unnecessarily cruel.

See full Story By clicking on above link.

Its just more of the same old industry onside with their Government buddies.
There are hundreds, actually thousands of Vets and farmers that will say intensive piggerys are cruel.

Its time we had a Nation Federal Case heard before a court to expose the Australian Governments and make them introduce some proper Animal Welfare codes in Australia.

Our Act is a hundred years old for god sake.

I am certainly not sitting on my hands any longer watching this mates rates operation continue throughout this country.

Over the years we have been contacted by several people from both overseas and Australia offering to give expert advise.

The AVA should hang their heads in shame because they are traitors to the animals they swore their allegance to.

As we take in more and more people from overseas into Australia it seems to me to make perfect sense to set these people up in small Free Range Pork Farms Poultry farms and others.

The AVA silence is deafening . I encourage every Australian citizen while writing to Emanuel Exports and letting your what you think about their cruel live exports to also write to the AVA.

They are the body reasonsible for both. AVA Why are you not protesting about cruelty to pigs?

Write to the Australian Vetinary Association and ask why they are not looking after the animals.

Why are they not screaming about the cruel intensive piggerys?

You may if you like approach them on their support of live exports as well.
We certainly will be asking our lawyers to look their way.

pale - the endorsement of the Model Code of Practice was no real surprise and while I am outspoken in my condemnation of sow stalls, there was no way they could make radical changes to the industry in one step. 10 years to impliment these changes is completely unnecessary though.

I think it is pointless now to keep screaming your protests at deaf ears.

Public awareness of intensive farming conditions is the only thing that will put an end to this practice. Its is happening already and APL know that. The Code is now set in stone, forget about it and put energy into making every australian aware of how their food is grown.

Dont under estimate the power of personal choice. As pork sales keep diving and more and more intensive farms are driven out of the industry, they may wake up to this fact.

Our town was once a large pork producing area. Now there is only one piggery left - and it is free range!

PF, I don't know what the DPI has to gain from telling porkies. I accept your concern about Media Relations companies. It is the qualifications of the people quoted I value, not the messenger.
Are animal welfare groups not adept at media utilisation? Farming groups often have to hire that expertise.

I hear you on the over production issue, unfortunately lower margins tend to fuel productivity gains, further lowering margins. Intensive farming has been too effective. The question is will this productivity be required as world population grows?

I take back my postulation on pork consumption per head, Denmark consumes nearly 3 times more pork/head than Australia and more than double it's consumption of beef. Yet it's price is less than half that of beef.
Is it because the pigs feed conversion ratio is so much better than cattle and sheep? More than double the efficiency for grain.

PALE

you should remember that

The Australian Peoples Party has the animal welfare policy that is required but see no outcome when you keep going at the others to listen.

It seems that you get many emails but do they know about tapp and its policies.

www.tapp.org.au

paleif, I absolutely listen to PF's views. He/she has been very informative. And knows a great deal more about the industry than me.

There are always two sides to a story, and pig housing is not going to go away. In this light, the overall welfare benefit by banning stalls is not evident. According to veterinary associations.

Why did the RSPCA leave it until the last minute to submit their proposal?

Rojo
Yes We agree that PF knows far more than us. There are not many pig farmers prepaired to do the right thing as far as I can see.
I should think if PF would agree to take over the post about pig farming that would be best.
I would still like to add the ocashional comment - Like Stuff the AVA and APL.
Yes I will put my time to educating the public. "Sure I will". Nothing will educate them like a nice big court case about Animal Welfare.
If you get the right legal beagles you can draw international press.

And I dont care what a bunch of kids just geting out of Uni are told to say either.
As I said the AVA must pay.
So theres your new logo Rojo.

"Why even a loss will be a win for Australian Animals."

ALP and others need to grow up.

If they think there is no trade for Fresh Free Range Pork and Poultry they are living in as Rudd Would say" The black and white days of TV.
All WE Need is somebody to host the first Free Range Pork Education school.
I am sure the RSPCA and the H Soceity would be happy to do the accreditations.
Rojo I dont know why RSPCA listed their sub at the last minute.
Probably because they are busy people.
Why what are you suggesting.?
I can only say personally I contacted Dr Hugh Wirth zillions of times about my MOU with AFIC to work towards fazing out live exports through increased carcuss trade to Me etc.
He never replied- not Once in Years.
Hes no longer there.
So who is next?

Rojo – I didn’t accuse anyone of telling porkies, I happen to agree with the DPI view, I simply pointed out that people will choose to ignore such advice when it suits them and that I think it unfair that only pigs are singled out for this attention when the same applies to other farm animals.

You are absolutely right – pigs are amazing feed converters, but, they don’t have to be kept in stalls to do that they, they perform just as well in a natural environment. Sure, their diet is different to an intensive pig with adjustments necessary to the DE and DE / Protein ratios to allow for the energy they expend.

With regard to “the qualifications of the people quoted” I find it interesting that not only do APL feel the need to employ a PR company (that do not actually state who the represent), they have also set up an anonymous website http://www.sowstalls.com.au that would lead people searching on the subject to believe that the same sort of information has come from many sources when in fact APL are behind the lot. A quick look on whois confirms this.

The RSPCA submitted their proposal a long time ago. I suppose they could see the writing on the wall with the new code and their last minute proposal was to try and have the 10 year faze in period reduced.

APL
When Woolworths suddenly work out that they are loosing their customers to ' Other Stores' Who agree to only sell Free Range Pork and poultry what are you going to do then huh?

When The Australian People all drive around with `complimentary signs` on their back windows and pictures of pigs in cages at intensive farming with Sold At @@.

Right at the same time the others are advertsing Free Range huh?

By the way Rojo you asked why the State Government would not do the right thing etc
For The Same Reason The Church Leaders are for ever silent about Animal cruelty.> GRANTS AND VOTES! Shame!

I agree it can not be fazed out over night. Umm
Well maybe not.
Do you know why overseas "are interested" in our meat products Rojo.?
Because they have seen the results of intensive farming and are fAR more aware of Diseases.
Where do you think the Bird Flue and other diseases come from?
From overseas of course.
Why because they have been around much longer and they are mostly intensive farming.
A huge mistake which the whole world is going tp pay for one day.
Overseas ARE interested In Free Range Pork and Carcuss from Australia.
Isnt that right? APL. They are very interested in all Free range Products and want to meet with Farmers direct!

APL Do you really? think there are not other people in this world that would like to take over your monopoly of the industry?
Think Again.
I suggest you contact Woolworths etc and involve them in diverting to free Range.,
They are involved in petrol food so they if smart will see they really dont have a option.
Or you could just sit there and wait. Of course we will have our own PAL. Pork Australia Limited by then.

"Sure I will". Nothing will educate them like a nice big court case about Animal Welfare.
If you get the right legal beagles you can draw international press."

pale - to be able to take legal action against someone would require that they are first doing something illegal. Sow stalls are legal. Seems like a huge waste of time and money to me that could be better spent educating the public in other ways.

PF, the way I read the initial article it says the rspca's proposal is to stop using stalls altogether.
If they only wanted to shorten the faze in period down from 10 years, fair enough.

paleif,
The ministerial council had input from various bodies including the CSIRO, vet and animal rights groups. Surely the outcomes have reasonable transparency. I notice they didn't increase protection from activists in the "Protect Animal industries from Disruptive activities" topic. You could take that as a win.

"Why even a loss will be a win for Australian Animals."
Yes very catchy logo, I'm sure it will take off.

The clean green image of Australia is one of our greatest assets and is a result of our isolation and border security. The professionalism of our farming systems means clean down procedures are implemented before visitors are permitted entry. It could be argued that intensive farming discourages disease spread since they are "isolated" systems.
A report on the UK Foot and Mouth disease outbreak identified sheep as the main spreading vector, they would be the least intensively farmed animal of all. The outbreak origin was traced to a small mixed farm using swill as a ration for pigs from a nearby restaurant.
I don't see any links to intensive farming as the problem.

Japan, arguably the fussiest food market, loves our feedloted beef.

“Senate frees the pregnant pigs
US - By a vote of 20-9 Thursday, the Oregon Senate endorsed a bill that would make it a Class A misdemeanor to confine a pregnant pig.”

Arguments based on ‘science’ will mean nothing in the end. The momentum is picking up. As more and more people become aware of how pigs are treated on intensive farms the outrage grows. Try to justify factory farming anyway you like but the writing is on the wall.

Rojo – intensive pig farms are incubators for disease. In an attempt to combat this, the pigs are fed a cocktail of antibiotics and other medications. Death rates are high in these concentration camps despite the huge drug bills. It doesn’t matter what species of animal it is, once you try and raise it in unnatural conditions and cram hundreds of them together, disease is inevitable.

BTW, RSPCA are very anti sow stalls and have been from the beginning. Their last bid was to have the faze in time reduced after it had become apparent that the Australian public’s plea for a better animal welfare system for pigs was to be all but ignored.

PF
That wont be the cause of Action I understand. - Thank You
Rojo.
There are dozens of books. Below is a few words of one.


FEED LOTS and INTENSIVE FARMING

We are on the verge of an enormous industrial transition, one based on the principles of sustainability.

For those businesses in Australia that have not woken up to the importance of sustainability, here is a question:

It is no longer possible to dismiss it as a fad. The pressures can only intensify.These major corporations understand that it is increasingly difficult to prosper in today’s world if they do not accommodate the concerns of the range of community interests.

While governments may have become more reluctant to impose restrictions and conditions on business, civil society has become more vigilant at exposing and punishing firms that contravene social .

Another object lesson in how we ignore sustainability at our peril has been provided by the foot-and-mouth and mad cow disease outbreaks in Britain.

As the magnitude of the foot-and-mouth disaster dawned on the British Government, Prime Minister Tony Blair mused in public over whether cheap food from industrial farming was worth the risk, and what it would cost to make British farming sustainable.

Britain has learned what it costs to be unsustainable.

Europe shows one future path for Australian farming: highly intensive farming based on feedlots, fertilisers and an increasingly fine sub-division of tasks − production line farming that allowed foot-and-mouth to spread with frightening speed.

Cows that eat grass do not catch mad cow disease.

Beef farming in Australia is much less dependent on intensive feedlots where cows are served up the pulverised brains of their kin.

Cows that wander over paddocks are also much less likely to catch foot and moth disease than herds standing flank-to-flank in muddy pens.

Yet the pressures to intensify farming are being felt in Australia.At present, Japanese consumers are willing to pay a 20 per cent price premium.

Pigs left to suffer By Nine Australian Poly`s.

Please support the Animals Australia Movement to stop this cruelty.
Look at their web page and read full details by clicking on The Animals Australia link below.

http://www.savebabe.com/eupdate/

Pale can not understand these people having such utter lack of concern for suffering animals.

Also its concerning what the Australian people feed their children and Familys.

Its well known that all sorts of intensive farming breads disease.

These animals must and will be converted to FREE RANGE.

If its done without the Industry then I guess Australia will have a new Industry then wont we.?

New Industry- New Ministers who dont support Animal Cruelty.
Whatever it takes will be done.

The Committe of Nine will be sitting their wondering what happend.

Why are the AVA so silent.?

You people make a mockery out of common decency.

Some Of the industry `itself` is starting to make their own moves to divert to Free Range.

Who do these people think they are to ignore the recomendations of RSPCA anyway?

In The next nine weeks pale will name one by one the People who sentenced these animals to another nine years of suffering.

In the next few months we will open petitions asking for their resignations by the Australian Public.

In the Strongest possible Terms we suggest the comittee of Nine reconsider.
'Please' dont try to give us more of your so called Science garbage.
Divert to Free Range asap in consideration of mass cruelty to Animals Peoples Health and lets be honest- Your Jobs.

Name And Shame.
Cruelty To Animals
Australians Say no.

PF,
It will be interesting to see if it becomes law and not just a senate bill. I guess it is something we will have to expect when there are only 4000 sows in a state of 3.5 million people. Can't get much less significant than that. I would assume a great many more activists than pig farmers.
"Arguments based on ‘science’ will mean nothing in the end."
I tend to agree. Such decisions are easy in times of plenty.

re: disease. Yes intensive farms are incubators of disease, but not necessarily the cause. A disease must enter the system in order to replicate. A big concern is the possibility of mutation once disease is present.
Intensive farms limit the interaction with other farm animals and between neighbours animals. Reducing spread vectors.

Rojo – I don’t know where you are getting your figures from, but according to information I have at hand, the NSW pig herd alone consists of over 89,000 sows. I can think of a couple of piggeries that have over 5,000 just in one operation. That’s a lot of sow stalls and gives a better picture of why these massive operations ‘need’ them.

“Intensive farms limit the interaction with other farm animals and between neighbours animals. Reducing spread vectors.”

In a perfect, sterile world maybe. You are ignoring a lot of contributing factors to the spread of disease in these situations. One of the biggest threats – rats – abundant and almost unstoppable given the design of intensive housing. If you have seen sow stalls in use you will also know that each sow has no choice but to have bodily contact with either neighbour – how quickly will disease spread in a situation like that? Add artificial heat, lack of ventilation and sunlight to the equation and then tell me again how sow stalls reduce spread vectors. Lets not also forget the contribution from humans or should I say lack of – cleanliness. Really, how often do you think these huge operations are cleaned? Maybe people like Andrew Spencer have their piggeries kept squeaky clean for media visits (about the only intensive piggery you see on tv) but in reality, most intensive farms invoke an involuntary vomit response. The immune systems of animals that are forced to live like this have to be compromised. Doesn’t matter if its pigs or people, you are right, disease has to come from somewhere but what hope has an intensive piggery got of stopping the spread?

Lucky these operations don’t actually need too many employees to operate them while they have sow stalls because they would have great difficulty finding staff to work in such appalling conditions.

PF, your link was about Oregon. I was refering to Oregon. Basically Oregon could ban pig production altogether without much of a stir.

You miss my point on spread vectors. I do no question the spread within a unit, but the spread between units.
the biggest risk for spread and to the eventual eradication(if it got here) of Foot and Mouth in Australia is the feral pig. Can they be any less intensive?

It's not like free range animals are immune from disease.
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16282011

My apologies rojo, I was assuming you were referring to the Code of Practice.

Feral pigs are at the other extreme. Poor nutrition mostly that makes them susceptable to disease and no control at all over grazing, health status, matings etc etc

Under the conditions that we raise pigs, there would be no problem at all containing an outbreak of foot and mouth, should it happen. Free range doesnt have to mean that pigs are just running loose all over the property with no management system in place. A very remote threat of foot and mouth in certainly no justification for sow stalls.

Health problems on a properly managed free range farm are minimal. On large intensive places the first job of the morning is to drag out the dead.

PF, no apology necessary, I should have been more clear.

"A very remote threat of foot and mouth in certainly no justification for sow stalls."

I totally agree, it's the counter argument(not by you) saying intensive farming causes foot and mouth or disease that I disagree with.
In everything I've read it's that good animal husbandry, in whatever system of production, has the largest bearing on animal welfare.

Even during drought the feral pigs are doing pretty well up here. It's been hard to keep them out of the sorghum. At least the pig chasers are getting a few dollars out of them.

Do you have a branded product that I can look out for? Purely for eating purposes, I assure you.

519,000 for foot and mouth intensive farming disease. (0.15 seconds)

foot and mouth intensive farming disease



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I get very annoyed with the arguments put up by APL in support of intensive farming at the expense of free rangers. We are levy paying members too (no choice in the matter) yet they make statements like ‘all pork producers believe that sow stalls do not compromise pig welfare’ Admittedly they do it via an anonymous website or a PR firm.

You are right about animal husbandry and unfortunately some of it in the intensive industry is appalling. At the same time it does concern me that as interest grows in free range pigs that the unscrupulous will move in there too if they see a buck to be made. I have this horrible vision of sow stalls stuck out in paddocks or something. There needs to be some standard in place to control that.

The fact that feral pigs do so well could only be seen as an argument for how pigs are meant to live outdoors wouldnt it?

I do have a branded product but experience has taught me not to divulge information like that on OLO. I would suggest you take a look at this website though http://www.freerangepork.com.au

PF Said.
At the same time it does concern me that as interest grows in free range pigs that the unscrupulous will move in there too if they see a buck to be made. I have this horrible vision of sow stalls stuck out in paddocks or something. There needs to be some standard in place to control that.

Goodmorning PF
Thanks for the name of the book.

Regarding your comment above I Agree totally!
Isnt there some way you could start the First Free Range Accreditation through RSPCA for example.
Your right its vital that the right people are in charge of vetting Free Range Farmers.

Why not work also with HS in NSW.

Could you see yourself running a ag school for eg.
Just wondering PF. I mean if you were paid and somebody put up the funds.
I must say I read your comments about not publishing your name.
All I know is my mother breeds cats and my father dogs- beleive it or not.
They are both proud as punch and I dont see why people can not say that.

Call me naive but could you explain why you wouldnt want people to know where they can learn about free Range Pig Farming.

If it were me I would be telling everybody if it was my Mum or Dad because its something you should be really really proud of.

I am proud of you and I dont even know you.
Without people like you who know what they are talking about how are we ever going to inform the public.

Now please dont bite my head off I am just wondering.
I addmitt I am only young with a lot to learn but I am determined to learn properly.

Then I can teach my children the right way because one day I would like to be on a farm with them. When I have gone they can take over the farm.

Thanks again and I have already ordered the book
Taryn Winter

PF, understand your reservations, I'll have a better look at the website.

"The fact that feral pigs do so well could only be seen as an argument for how pigs are meant to live outdoors wouldnt it?"

Well since all animal ancestry evolved outdoors, I'd say that was a fair assumption. Whether they are as productive is the question, I don't see anyone capturing them for breeding purposes.
I guess they are black for a reason. Sunburn is a real issue.

Rojo - I think the feral pig is highly productive given the number of ‘pig chasers’ around here and still their numbers don’t seem to be affected. Their carcass has no real commercial value, high in fat, gamey taste, relatively small in size and low yielding , no were as meaty as the commercial pig.

The feral pig is black in most instances and that certainly does help with sun protection. Don’t under estimate the instinctive behaviours of a white pig though. They cope much better, under the right conditions, than people give them credit for. I could easily breed up a completely black herd to give them added protection but guess what – consumers are offended by seeing dark hair roots on their roast.

Most people don’t seem to realize that pigs are not skinned and that the crackling that everyone loves so much is actually the pigs skin with the hairs scraped off. There is always a few hairs left on the carcass but with white pigs they go unnoticed and of course the hair roots are not visible. Hold that thought and then think about all those intensive pigs piled in their little pens, covered in each others excrement. Mmmm ….yum, bet you never look at crackling the same way again!

Taryn – the link I gave highlights a few free range farmers, not just myself, far more interesting. You will learn a lot from that book.

PF.
I do not have the book as yet. They said it will take another week.
I found this story.
Taryn

http://www.farmonline.com.au/news_daily.asp?ag_id=42454
Breaking Rural News : LIVESTOCK

Work to be done on group housing of sows
Australia
Monday, 14 May 2007

In the wake of the sow-stall controversy, veterinary research has found that group housing of female pigs during gestation can be done, but more work is needed to ensure maximum welfare and reproductive performance