It is difficult to discern whether the Prime Minister's announcement of a September 14th General Election is a masterstroke of political genius, or an extension of her now-habitual blind stumbles.

She most certainly had her tongue firmly in her cheek when she said:

"I [announce the date] not to start the nation's longest election campaign - quite the opposite," she told the National Press Club. "It should be clear to all which are the days of governing and which are the days of campaigning."

Who does she think she is kidding?

But it has certainly put the Liberals on the back foot, as they have to make a very quick decision indeed whether to continue to support Tony "foot-in-mouth" Abbott, or to switch horses. A decision that I feel they may have wanted to put off for another couple of months.

On the other hand it is a signal to her own troops to put up or shut up about Kevin "rising soufflé" Rudd.

So, what will be the key landmarks of the two campaigns, do we think?

It's just a plot to give the chumptocracy a chance to determine if Pal is better for dinner or Shmacko's. That's all they'll afford by the time it's over. Hide your money folks, the parasites are on to a new scam!

GOOD BYE JULIA NA NA NA NA HA HA GOOD BYE.

That Kevin rDudd character is still lurking around is he? Is he really?? Is he really still in the minds of some a potential reincarnated leader? Surely not!

Amazingly, that footinmouth babblingAbbott character is definitely still around. ‘Bout time he bit the dust… although his obvious replacement is a worry indeed: that Turncoat character!

<< So, what will be the key landmarks of the two campaigns, do we think? >>

Good question Pericles, given that they are so close in their political philosophies, like two peas in a pod!

What WILL they come up with that will differentiate them and that will resonate with the electorate?

Of course, what is good for the country and the quality of life of its people doesn't really come into the picture... or if it does, it is entirely inadvertent!!

It is most insensitive of Julia to call an elections on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, the most sacred day in the Jewish calendar, the day of judgement, while all Jews will be fasting, praying and repenting.

Or could it be deliberate? Could she possibly be interested in having all the Jewish candidates and helpers absent from the polling-booths?

The Jews will be pre-polling, but not for Julia, for her distasteful choice of date if for no other reason!

Regardless of when the actual election is called the government knows it is gone. It cannot rely on past performance nor can it rely on more exotic policy thought bubbles. It has also lost traction with the divisive gender/social/ethnic/big business conflicts it has created.

All it has left now is the war on Abbott. Even here the comparative strategy has failed. It matters not if Abbott is popular or not, what counts is how many parliamentary seats are won. Non ALP voters are no longer responding to the Abbott, Abbott, Abbott mantra.

The most popular form of comparison strategy is still “well our lot is bad but Abbott would be worse”. Sadly many seem to think this actually means something to voters.

Good, bad or indifferent, personal ratings mean absolutely nothing if the polls show an 18 to 25 seat loss for the ALP.

The ALP supporters need to recognize that a higher popularity poll for Gillard has failed to translate into higher polling support for the ALP, yet a lower popularity poll for Abbott is translating into a better 2PP? It could be said that the ALP attacks are now starting to show the inverse law? So why keep doing it?

It also matters not if the ALP supporters, including the Canberra media “Luvvies”, keep spruiking past achievements or future promises, because these only mean anything to the true believers and clearly not the broader electorate.

The desperation of the Gillard government is telegraphed by this election announcement. It is clear that they have no remaining electoral leverage, they exhibit raw panic and desperation, drawing out Abbott on policy announcements is their last ditch stand.

He won’t respond of course and the non-rusted on know he won’t be drawn. This will leave the Gillard government in a political vacuum with little else to contribute and no target. This will be a very long election campaign for all but especially the ALP as the prospect of death by a thousand cuts will destroy what is left of the once proud ALP.

Dear Pericles,

I feel that this is a good move by the PM.

It cuts out the media speculating about the date
of the next election for the next six months and
perhaps they can now begin to focus on what we
all should care about - which is policies. This
also gives the Opposition more time to prepare
their policies and submit costings, unlike the
previous election where they complained they did
not have enough time to submit all the facts.
They have no cause for complaints now.

Whatever the motivation for this decision - it is a
good one.

Perhaps the next decision may well be for "fixed terms"
in office. That would also be great!

I have always found most orators are idiots, just look at Obama, Churchill & Hitler as examples.

Unfortunately our Julia, no orator but very much an idiot, still has lots of time to do enormous damage to Oz, & you can bet your boots she is hard at it right now.

I think Abbott will turn out to be one of the best PMs we have had. Not hard of course, when you think of McMahon, Hawke, Whitlam, Rudd & Gillard just as starters. That the drovers dog would have been better than that lot is obvious.

I just hope he is brave enough to follow his heart, & chuck out all the garbage recently put in place, & all the attempt at vote buying cr4p Gillard is now busy trying to cripple us with.

It will take a brave man. so lets hope for a landslide, to help give him courage to do what's necessary.

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has been accused of putting image before policy, after the leaking of an email trail showing his interest in being seen as a ''good bloke''.
The emails also reportedly showed a senior adviser urged Mr Abbott not to use his National Press Club speech on Thursday to announce the cutting of a major government program.
Trade Minister Craig Emerson seized on the leak, saying Mr Abbott should take the opportunity during his address to explain what he wanted to cut.
''Three-word slogans are not a substitute for policy,'' Mr Emerson said.
Advertisement
''Mr Abbott wants to put his image first and policy last.''
News Ltd reported an internal email trail showed Mr Abbott was set to announce the axing of a major government program, but a senior adviser urged him to drop it, describing it as ''a really bad idea''.
''I'd like to see more of the 'vision thing','' media adviser Andrew Hirst reportedly told him in reply to a draft of the speech.
Mr Abbott reportedly argued that the speech contained enough material to stay on message in the wake of the release of a glossy campaign booklet on Sunday.
According to News Ltd, Mr Abbott said the address contained enough personal stories ''for the commentariat to say . . . yes he is a good bloke, and yes he is more fair dinkum''.

Julia "I told you so" infants headmistress,will bore us all to death with her monotones of meaningless drivel.8 mths of Julia will just be too much.It many be a good ploy of using an attrition of repeated lies to wear the public down.She's good at that.Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes truth.I wonder if suicide rates will go up this year?

We'll be so brow beaten,we will offer to vote for Labor just to shut her up.

Abbott also has the problem of the media not being with him.There are many in the financial system who want the CO2 tax as this will lead to an ETS derivative to milk us even more.

The elite's other big fear about Abbott is that he might turn out to be honest and do something for the masses.I doubt that since he was the hatchet man for Pauline Hanson and Tony looks like an establishment man to me.

579,

I’m delighted that your post is all about Abbott. This tells everyone that you are scraping the bottom of the barrel. You have now reached rock bottom and started digging.

The majority of Australians do not support your faith in Gillard or your condemnation of Abbott, this leaves you precisely where you should be, on the outer.

You and your left leaning friends have had the opportunity over the last few years, to recognize a little reality. We now know that you are incapable of understanding what the real world looks like.

We don’t care, you made your decisions, you aligned yourselves with political ideology and it failed you, don’t complain to us, buyer beware, you bought it you live with it.

Happy days.

While Juliar's fixing of the election date does put pressure on the coalition to put foward costed policies, it also puts pressure on the government to put forward a realistic budget forcast without which future costings are impossible. (the mini budget issued recently was out of date a week later) and not the distorted and optimistic rubbish they have put foward so far. (the 2011/12 budget was originally forcast at a $12bn deficit, ending at a $43bn deficit.)

I think that Juliar is so desperate draw attention from labor's policy blunders and to appear to be in control that she is issuing decrees left right and centre and pretense of consultation with her cabinet, MPs, or labor members is a complete joke.

The general consensus is that this was a bad move for Labor, and a good one for the opposition. I look forward to 8 months of Hard Labor.

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says it won't be easy to find savings without a carbon tax, which the coalition has promised to scrap if it wins government.
But an Abbott-led government will make the necessary decisions, such as scrapping Labor's school kids bonus.
"Our first commitment is to repeal the carbon tax," Mr Abbott said in his first public speech of the year.
"The prime minister says that it will never happen but I'm not like her and don't operate by her standards."
The carbon tax raises 6 billion annually.

Yay! We have Timoy to thank for eight months free from the Handbag Hit Squad and Julia wielding the misogyny weapon of man destruction.

There is a small silver lining in the dark, ominous clouds of the longest election campaign in history. Er, should that be 'herstory'?

Interesting.

News of the arrest of Craig Thompson today. Did this have anything to do with the announcement of the election date? Not quite sure how the mechanics work but imagine handing the reins to the opposition to form government for six months until an election.

Anything at all will be better than the current toxic government and that toxic Gillard. They've almost destroyed Australia, and I can hardly wait for the chance to throw these lying criminals out.

Quote "Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says it won't be easy to find savings without a carbon tax" - just shows it was nothing to do with saving the environment just another Government cash grab.
Juliar the worst prime minister in Australian history.

Not sure of labor's tactics; perhaps it is to give it time for the coalition to offer its policies in order to riducule them.

i think that now Abbott has a target (and date), he (and Coalition) will focus much more astutely.

2013 will be an interesting year for Aust federal politics.

Phillip S, ain't that the truth. Juliar lies, lies and lies. We need a "real" man at the helm. At least the coalition tells it straight and can be trusted to save Australia from doom. All Labor does is throw insults and endorse criminals as politicians, and they've almost destroyed Australia. Our budget is wrecked, our debt is crippling us, single mothers and the unemployed are still rorting the system, the books are likely cooked like Abbott suspects. What a mess. Bring on the election.

I wonder if she knew this was going down.

Suspended Labor MP Craig Thomson facing 150 fraud charges

INDEPENDENT MP Craig Thomson has been bailed on fraud charges on condition he doesn't attempt to contact any person he allegedly sought sexual services from.

http://www.news.com.au/national/craig-thomson-arrested-by-police/story-fncynjr2-1226565909723

I need to be honest here, and I hope, better informed than some.
During this election campaign I do not intend to white wash the ALP/Union movements.
After all who would know how to get our hands on that much white wash.
My stated views will not change, todays charging of Thomson is bleak, it has convinced me he has much to hide.
Labor has one chance ,just one, to pull off a win against the odds,it is.
Tony Abbott.
He, no one else, can win it for Labor.
Nameing the election date, this far out, will change nothing.
IF the result I expect, note NSW filth and HSU dirt bags, will be headlines till after the election.
Know too, even if it hurts, we are going to get a Campbell Newman style leader.
A quote, nearly sure it was him, while removing the internals of this PC to get back on line I heard these words.
After inspecting the floods.
* this is not the time to get involved in a POLITICALLY CORRECT DEBATE*?
ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE?
I question any politician using that debate to compare it to PC in any way.
And in fact as NSW has in the last 6 year s seen our north coast flood many times we should at least ask IS IT RELATED.
Dreams are n8ice but can turn to night mares my party should not think voters are silly, no attempt to win an election that does not include reform and commitment never again, can work.
We however are electing a far from good government, in just fleeing to Liberals T0O GET AWAY FROM GILLARD

I see the smirk being wiped off the slimy independants Oakshott and Windsor who pooped on their electorate to be in partnership with this open and accountable Government. How proud they must be to allow their hatred to help ruin the country.

"""
We however are electing a far from good government, in just fleeing to Liberals T0O GET AWAY FROM GILLARD
"""

You would compare this:

Abbott graduated from the University of Sydney with degrees in Bachelor of Laws (LLB) and Bachelor of Economics (BEc). Then he became a Rhodes
Scholar at Queens College Oxford UK in Politics and Philosophy. He also
won a boxing blue at Oxford. He married Margaret in 1987 and has three daughters. He is a member of the congregation of the Catholic Church.

He was involved in student politics, but beyond that, biographer Michael Duffy, wrote that during his student days he “........saved a child who was swept out to sea. Another time, he helped save children from a burning house next to a pub where he was drinking. On each occasion he disappeared before he could be properly thanked”.

He is a member of Manly’s Queenscliffe SLSC, and a member of the New South Wales Rural Fire Service, both of which he joined before it was politically expedient to do so. He spent several weeks teaching in remote Aboriginal settlements in Cape York in an effort ‘to familiarise himself with indigenous issues’.

If you are wondering where some of the negativity attributed to Tony Abbott comes from, go on to the Net and have a look at the comments which followed, 2 years ago, when he was asked by the Women’s Weekly

“What advice would you give your three daughters on sex before marriage?”

He told the magazine: I would say to my daughters, if they were to ask me this question =85it is the greatest gift you can give someone, the ultimate gift of giving and don’t give it up to someone lightly.”

cont...

Yet, if you were to read many of the comments on the Internet and the print media at the time, you could be forgiven for thinking he was attempting to impose his will on all females in Australia, had ranted against women, had argued for Muslim like chastity, and so on................... See for
yourself - Google it! Gillard’s response was to accuse Abbott of “lecturing women”??

I have also included a video of Abbott where he commented on, in what seems to me to be quite a balanced fashion, “climate change” yet the title of the video suggests he has been extreme in “denying climate change and advocating carbon tax”.

Abbott has had a history of being told by ‘ABC types’ that he lacks compassion, does not understand homosexuality or homosexuals, avoids situations where he might need to face up to gay relationships, and so on.
Again, because he was not prepared to reveal personal issues of others (ethics, principles,?), he did not speak about his own sister’s lesbian relationship and the part he played in supporting her. It would have been an easy defence for him, but in line with his principles and values, he chose not to use it.
Granted, he is not a super smooth, off the cuff, speaker, and does not fit the orator mould. But when he is compared to the glib tongues and untrustworthiness of Gillard, Rudd, Swan, etc., it is not difficult to determine which attributes are more important for the leadership of Australia.

After Abbott completed his studies, he became a journalist for The Bulletin and also the Australian. For a time he was plant manager for Pioneer Concrete, then became press secretary for the then Opposition Leader, Dr John Hewson. He was elected to Parliament in 1994 at a bi-election. He has held various Ministerial posts and his actions in those roles are a matter of public record. His work ethic is unquestioned.

cont...

He was dismayed at the policies of former leader Malcolm Turnbull relating to ETS, and following widespread disaffection with Turnbull’s stance among
Liberal Party members, threw his hat into the ring, as did Joe Hockey,
for leadership of the Liberal Party. Abbott was successful. At the time, the polls were running strongly against the Liberal Party (in the 40% approval range), while Kevin Rudd enjoyed figures around 60% Within a short space of time, with Abbott as leader, those figures changed to such a degree that Rudd was replaced in the now infamous “faceless men” coup which installed Gillard. Since that time, Abbott has maintained constant focus on the ever widening circle of disasters associated with the Gillard government to the stage where support for that government now hovers around the 30% mark.

Abbott, strikes me as a person of integrity, he has values in which I too believe, and ethics based on his Christian beliefs. I would much rather place my trust in someone who, in his actions, has shown he is what he says, rather than someone who will say anything to gain a prospective advantage for themselves.

BY Mark LATHAM, Former Leader of A.L.P.**

To this??

The AWU Scandal & Prime Minister Gillard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oDFqvkSsSk

Runner, yes those slimy Labor party slaves, oops I mean independents, should be ashamed of themselves. They'll be gone at the next election. And Juliar will be replaced by someone who tells the truth, and someone Australia can trust, Tony Abbott. Toxic Julia is a traitor to this wonderful country, she's nearly bankrupted Australia. This toxic woman gives out free money to cripples and unwed, sinful mothers. What a criminal she is.

'This toxic woman gives out free money to cripples and unwed, sinful mothers. What a criminal she is. '

Really Dell? And who without sin does she give money to?

Runner, to MILLIONS of people Australia wide in carbon tax subsidies. Totally wasted money because under Aboott we'd have no carbon tax and thus no need for compensation. Julia, as you know, is a toxic liar at the head of a toxic, failed government. Given their way they'd bankrupt this great nation. And they're doing just that with the full support of those 2 traitors Oakshot and Windsor.

runner,

I see you've found a kindred spirit (Hoorah!)

What a joy it is to see our brethren labelling this one and that slimy, etc, hatred-filled, "pooping in their electorates"...with style like that you'll go far, lad : )

Dell,

You're a doozy!

"Giving out free money to cripples and unwed, sinful mothers"....I hope you're not a Christian, speaking like that...but then you obviously aren't if you speak like that.

Disability handouts are just a way for Juliar to bribe another bunch of votes. She doesn't give a damn about the disabled. Single mothers are still, even in this day and age, rorting the system, and you know it Poirot. But being a leftie, you'd encourage that. Our national debt is bigger than Juliar's backside.

Juliar, and her criminal friends, have only a limited time left in power. Good Australians know that, and we'll kick the slag out come September.

Dear Dell,

We have had a great number and a great variety of posters on this site. Over the many years I have haunted its halls I have read and often responded to literally thousands of posts.

There have been some who I have locked horns with and even vehemently disagreed with but until now there has never been an occasion when I have felt the need to seriously offer this advice.

Please think about getting some help. The anger and hatred you obviously feel is way out of proportion to reality. It is unhealthy and can ultimately be quite destructive.

Please think about it.

Dell,

I suppose you'd offer up yourself as an example of a "Good Australian".

I'll tell you something...if I was going to give my eleven year-old some advice of the sort of conduct to avoid, and the sort of conduct that abounds and abominates blog sites these days - I could think of no better example than to show him your rants on this thread.

I see the politically correct thought police have turned up.

Admit it, your hero Juliar is doomed to the dustbin as Australia's worst ever PM. How inept she is, she devises a tax that doesn't even collect a single dollar. Poor girl. She should maybe take up something that suits her intellectual capacities better, something like being a housewife. Let Tim earn the money.

It is simply yet another scam by a desperate leader of a failed government.

Firstly, it is obvious she wants the libs to release their policies, but hang on, how can they as all of a sudden we have gone from a PROMISED SURPLUS to a deficit.

It is only common sense that the libs should wait until the budget release in May, so they can at least see how far behind the starting line is going to be.

But at least we now know Julia will be sleeping with ome eye open for the best part if the year, just hoping nobody stuffs anything up before September 14.

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ONE I say, cause if they can go even one month without surfing up something it will be a dead set miracle.

Yep that's right rehctub, Juliar is a walking disaster area. Have you seen those new glasses? She looks even uglier. They certainly won't help her to see things more clearly. Carbon tax disaster, broken surplus promise, huge national debt, Slipper, Thompson --- I wonder what's next?

Rawmustard for a person who has opted out of the system,you certainly have a lot of passion and support for Tony Abbott.

As I said previously,if Abbott is perceived as being too honest by the corporate media,they will trash his reputation.I don't think he can afford to be seen by them as a man who believes in a fair and honest system.Abbott had two meeetings with Rupert Murdoch about the time of him becoming Coalition Leader.Murdoch would have spelled out the reality in no uncertain terms.I don't think Abbott would have got the job had he not agreed to those terms.

This tells us that the system is totally corrupt.

Arjay, that's a cute conspiracy theory.

Got any actual proof to back up that conspiracy theory claim? Or is it a mere opinion of yours, written as if it's fact? I suspect we all know the answer to that one, don't we Arjay.

Totally agree with you, RawMustard,

Tony Abbott is so underrated, it is sad. Compare his wide and varied background of experience, and voluntary work which must surely show he is a compassionate person. Plus he can recite poetry with ease. I hear he is very personable to people individually and people change their minds about him after meeting him, when they were initially negative of him. I can't believe some people call him stupid. He's not a pretentious prig. He speaks naturally and off the cuff. He has integrity. Compare him to Gillard who is a political machine, and as Bob Ellis has cited, she has no landscape. He has described Abbott as a very eloquent speaker at all the book launches he sees him at, and responds in this way to a whole range of questions of varying issues thrown at him. He even compares him to F Scott Fitzgerald. Gillard doesn't read anything outside law, which she has admitted. She is so narrow, and cold. Her whole misogyny campaigns against Abbott were disgusting. I just can't believe people cannot see through it. These people are the elistist latte sippers who have no idea of their own hypocrisy and pretensions. These are the same people who wouldn't know the meaning of voluntary community work which has always generally been done by conservatives, anyway.

Just like to point out that I'm about as unimpressed with Gillard as it's possible for a leftie to be - I won't be voting for Labor...nor Liberal.

Dell,

Please don't think of me as the thought police. I couldn't give a toss what you "think"....especially since it is broadcast with such odious melodrama. You remind me of Donald Duck when he's chucking a plonker - with about the same level of civility.

Most entertaining (in an odd way:)

Constance,

Here's an example of Tony's "integrity":

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/22/1061529330032.html

Belly,
I think it was Campbell Newman that said 'now is not the time for a politically correct debate' and I agree with him. He has far too much work to be done to get sidetracked into philosophical and religous debates. Just like the greens were wrong to blame the vic fires on AGW.

Hey, i can well recall Tim , and other advocates, saying 'drought is permanent, not enough rain to fill dams, seas rising to cover 8 story buildings, UK kids won't know what snow is'. Silly state governments bought this crap and spent billions on desaliation plants that are now in mothballs. I may be wrong but I think they were all Labor.

You well know Labor has failed miserably in everything for the past 5 years, beginning with Rudd encouraging the illegal boat entrants.

579,
On the other thread you accused Abbott of not wanting to assist flood or fire victims, about time you put up evidence of that, or apoligise. Come to think of it, a short time ago, you were saying that Thomson hasn't been charged. What do you say in his support now with 150 charges in Vic and more to come in NSW?

What about the AWU scandal and the Obeids and Co are such good Labor supporters aren't they, serving the community AND themselves.

The mess Labor are facing right now is all their own doing.

Face it, the Labor brand stinks right now and you should be blaming the current mob in parliament. Belly is right, and the sooner the wipeout, the sooner Labor can rebuild with far better people that put Australia first.

"""
Rawmustard for a person who has opted out of the system,you certainly have a lot of passion and support for Tony Abbott.
"""

But, Arjay. There are still some good people in this world. Just because 97% of them are despotic, tyrannical, parasites doesn't mean we should not acknowledge the ones who step above the crap and show themselves to us as real human beings.

The demonetisation of an honest to goodness human is absolutely the most disgusting display of evil I've ever seen in this country.

Tony Abbot is a doer. He actually gets off his backside and does things with his own bare hands and energy to help others and does not expect reward from others. He shows and leads by example. What have the others done?

These are the kinds of people that we need to lead the world out of misery. He's a true human being.

Perhaps you're right and he's already been bought, but I haven't seen this yet, have you? Lets judge him when he lets us down!

I do find it rather amazing that after the constant string of lies coming from Gillard, so many of you believe this lot is gospel.

About the only think we can be sure of is that the election will not be on September 14Th.

I reckon we will have a snap election any time the polls show any improvement for Labor. That of course depends on them being able to hold the rotten mess together that long.

Constance,

I think you greatly exaggerate Mr Abbott's activities, although it was nice to see him face his very first fire as a "volunteer" - after 13 years of attending the occasional meeting and filling a single sandbag for the cameras a couple of days ago.

As for his integrity, he's firmly on the public record as a proven liar - both in and out of government.

He doesn't speak off the cuff, his media appearances are carefully controlled and staged and he often walks away during interviews when confronted with a difficult question that isn't covered in his scripted lines.

He's not a leader, he's always been a follower.

As for the typical backhanded "elitist latte sippers" tag, I think you will find more of them living in conservative seats than in the western suburbs.

I also don't know where you got the data on volunteer work "always being done by conservatives" but it's well known that the poorer are comparatively more generous when it comes to donating to charities.

Mr Abbott was asked how voters could trust him, given he broke a "rolled gold" promise he gave as health minister to not raise thresholds on the Medicare safety net.

Mr Abbott said he also doubted the Labor party would reject the verdict of the election, which he has said will be a referendum on the carbon tax.

Asked to give certainty to public service department bosses, Mr Abbott said he couldn't guarantee every single one would be in the same position if he won the election. But there certainly won't be anything resembling a night of the long knives or a bloodbath of the public servants," he said.
Mr Abbott also restated his commitment to paid parental leave, saying it was a workplace entitlement .

Mr Abbott was asked how voters could trust him, given he broke a "rolled gold" promise he gave as health minister to not raise thresholds on the Medicare safety net.

Is that the best you can come up with 579, something that occurred three governments ago.

You see the problem the likes of you face, caused by your total ignorance, or state of denial, or perhaps both, is that the hole you have dugg for yourself is now very very deep and you will have to eat a lot of crow and spit a lot of feathers just to get to the poimt where you can peek out, let alone get out.

I am afraid your beloved Julia, by way of calling the election so early, has cooked her own goose and Blind Fredie himself could most likely win the upcoming election, shoukd Julia remain at the helm.

She has set herself some 220 odd days to be reminded of her lies and broken promises, not to mention her harboring of Mr Thompson, who, whether guilty or not, was only ever protected for the sake of her numbers.

Hardly what I would call 'sound governance' don't you think!

Banjo, for the purpose of this debate can we both? leave our self assurance out side the door?
PC can in no way, be used in the climate change debate.
Show me how it apply s.
Tell me too, at the second time in 2 years why we should not ask, is it a factor.
Queenslanders, may well feel remote from the reality's of northern NSW recent history of floods.
We suffered, but not as much as they have in just about a quarter of the events we have had.
Early days yet, we and Queensland, may suffer again in the next two months.
Right or wrong, compareing PC with the debate on climate change is unfortunate proof.
Proof in fleeing, and Australia will, from Gillard, we are running in to the arms of the right of Liberalism, in no way related to
true Liberal thoughts.
A truth exists here, three questions, need debating.
And what better time than this.
Is the climate changing.
Can/has man anything to do with it.
Can we change anything by our actions.
And what if any answer ,for me all are, is yes, do we do, branding a debate PC in this fashion is not less than Nazi book burning.

The first day of the campaign personifies what the Labor Party stands for. Not fighting the bosses for the rights of workers but rather fighting the law. Craig Thompson 149 charges. Gillard is a political air-head. My prediction, Labor to loose 20 seats.

I think 579 has a huge amount of crow to eat. Recently he was proclaiming Craig Thomson's innocence based on his assertion that they did not have enough evidence to arrest him.

Looks like the 2013 campaign will co incide with the fraud and corruptions trials of Craig Thomson, Peter Slipper, and the NSW Labor Mafia.

Butch as normal you have a firm grip of yourself. Would you really think Abbott would not do as Julia has done if it were he who was in the same situation.
How long before Abbott puts his foot in it again. What the early election date has done is probably stop Turnbull taking over, from Abbott, as was the plan in about 3 months time.
A proven mutant, if it aint written down by someone else , he is lost for words.
A long lead up to an election , will give him enough time to double cross him self 200 times.
So take it easy butch , there is no rush.

Belly,
Maybe AGW is not a PC argument but I agree with Newman, now is not the time to discuss such. There is too much to be done now, getting people back in homes and restoring services and cleaning up, etc.

The time to discuss all matters relating to the floods is after the work is done.

For a practical bloke, you amaze me that you believe in AGW as there is still not evidence of human involvement in any change in climate. The CO2 theory has taken a hit as there has been no warming for 16 years despite record ammounts of carbon being emitted. We are aware of many things in nature that humans have no influence over. Tides, eartquakes and so on, so why do some think we have an influence on the world climate. It is a religion because those that believe do so without evidence.

On top of this the 'experts' predictions have all been found wanting and corruption was found among the scientists promoting AGW. It really made me laugh when Rudd claimed a few hot days in Adelaide was evidence of AGW, before leaving for Copenhagen. This year the alarmists were at it again over a few hot days in january, at the same time unprecedented cold was covering the Northern hemisphere.

Sorry but I think the ALP picked the wrong horse in this race. The best stategy is to remain sceptical untill clear evidence comes along.
The number of believers in AGW is dwindling each day.

Since I've run out of posts on SM's thread - and Thomson's case "is" political.

I'm inserting this link here....spindoc and others will be interested in tearing it apart, although Greg Barnes, being a barrister probably has a healthier notion of the presumption of innocence than the rabble on OLO.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4495056.html

Belly, in answer to your questions,
one, yes I do think the climate is changing, but then again I can remember it changing in the 70's with floods and cyclones common place.

Two, yes I do think we contribute, as I simply can't believe that we don't contribute by allowing so much polution, that we generate, from cars, trucks factories, even increased animal food production. Unfortunately, there appears to be no science to confirm this, so given I am no scientist, I have no option other than to accept thier view.

Three, the key word in your question is WE, as we are just a very small contributor in the global climate change.

If it were an Australian climate change issue I would understand the price on carbon, but it's simply not and, in uncertain financial times, the last thing we need is a trading handicap.

579, I think you would agree that with the timing of the election call, and CT arrest, labor is currently leading the stuff up race one nil.

Self praise is no recommendation.
I understand that.
And know my words here will brand me a big head.
But in current company any one who can see both sides is going to find it difficult not to stand out.
First not too many who express silly thoughts right down to stupid stuff, are not going to make any difference come election day.
My mate Banjo, in effect, says after a road wreck, the last people we need are those who investigate and ask, why did it happen!
Those here to defend my lifes love the ALP, too must know, we are nackered, by our own hand.
And if defending us, as blindly as the Liberals here defend their team, we deserve no better.
We must act right now, some members of parliment are, by leaving a sinking ship.
Act to never again, see NSW LABOR PTY LTD OWNS US.
To get an end to our power brokers, stop Steven Conroy or Bill Shorten being rewarded for stabbing us, and our leader.
Fear, justified, of Abbott and or his replacement is sweat well invested.
But look at what we face in our own party.
Rudd may leave too, on the last day it is clear he will not be returned he may go.
Is Australia worth fighting for?
Can balanced understanding posters, not see we are given the choice of tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber?

Yes Belly, that's exactly what it has come to.

I knew that several years ago, and I say this as Julia replaced what was our most popularly voted PM since Bob, and was in labor's own words, a better option.

The slide was obvious, as she struggled to keep pace with Tony, who himself came a distant second to John Howard, as far as popularity and respect went.

Since bargaining her way into office, Julia has spent more time suring up her position, than actually running the country, Craig Thompson, Peter Slipper and the hasty way she called a ballot against Kevin Rudd, as she knew she had to act fast, as the people, not the faceless men, wanted Kevin and she knew it.

It is either a coincidence, or yet another show of damage control by her when she called an election some 220 odd days latter, about the same time as CT was arrested.

My tip is it's the later.

As a PM she has gone from disaster to disaster and has spent more time sleeping with one eye open than any other PM in recent history.

As I have often said, politics here in Oz is simply a race to the bottom.

As I watch the shenanigans going on between the big 2 Dumb Parties and their leaders Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Even Dummber. I sigh in relief, safe in the knowledge I am a member of the true party of honesty, integrity and down right good policies! The Greens. A party of wonderful leadership and terrific parliamentary representatives. No matter the outcome in September I am comforted in the knowledge that my good friend, Lee Rhiannon, will be there fighting the good fight on behalf of the down trodden, In true Bob Brown tradition, sticking it up the B's. I am joyous to think that there is a distinct possablity that Lee will be joined by a brand new Green Senator the proven champion of the people, my friend, the wonderful Cate Faehrmaqnn. So sharpen your pencils, and VOTE 1 THE GREENS.
In my post I hope you realise I have been as even handed as I can be.

Belly,
No, I am saying that those victims and injured by the road crash are treated and looked after FIRST, before anyone looks at the cause.

Same with the floods and fires. Therefore Newman is right.

Only now, in Rocky, are some being allowed back to their homes. Their immediate interests come first. Plenty to do there.

Paul1405, I almost choked on my coffee at that one.

Wonderful leadership, you're kidding.

Those couple of harpies from Tasmania, are every bit as nasty & viscous as Gillard, & have done every bit as much damage to the Oz people as has Gillard in this parliamentary term.

It is the fervent hope of most Ozzies that the people previously fooled by the nice fuzzy front on the greens, will now have seen through them to the nasty dictatorial attitude of their leadership.

Hopefully they can be swept from our lives, just like the Democrats before them.

Can't wait to see Tony strutting his stuff on the world's stage...

(Will he employ an aide, I wonder, to assist with the continual removal of his foot/feet from his mouth?)

These and other questions will be uppermost in the minds of the electorate in the months to come.

Woe is us - who have such a dearth of talent from which to choose. As I've opined before - in a population of 22 million, with the majority of voting age - we are reduced to the present choice - amazing!

Hooray another one of Emily's list who tried to shut down any debate gone! Rats deserting the smelliest ship in our history. Maybe Mundine could replace her.

Tony strutting his stuff on the world stage. What a picture, that is one way of getting laughed at i suppose.

Abbott would cut school bonus
Tony Abbott confirms the coalition plans to cut the school kids bonus, despite advice that he should omit the measure from his press club speech.

TONY Abbott has promised to restore trust to politics but has refused to explain how he will balance the budget while delivering new spending and abolishing some taxes.
The Opposition Leader has also promised to do whatever it takes to scrap Labor's carbon tax, even if it means another election within a year if the Senate proved unco-operative.
''When I say there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead, I am telling the truth,'' he told the National Press Club.

Rechtub I agree.
Runner may I?
Bloke you waste any confidence you have in your self,buy a mirror.
Banjo, no argument but let us look again at those words and the intent behind them.
Right now, without Rudd [but watch this space] Labor is gone.
Liberalism is a far different beast than Conservatism, further still from Tea Party.
CN looks Tea party to me.
Mid term elections, two years away, in America, will bury forever that extremism, for sure Republicans will see to that.
And Banjo, this debate, climate change, remember this, will have turned on its head by the end of this next Australian Parliament,and the four year term in America.
Then the words CN used will be seen by most as I see them now.
Defeat, if it takes that, will strengthen and reform the ALP.
Do not show your contempt for Labor by voting greens, they are the problem not the answer.
Senate votes should be one side or the other never the greens.

579, Parrot,

Not nearly as funny as Juliar plowing the turf with her nose, or being dragged in a head lock to her car. All great overseas hits.

579, poirot,
You know what I am looking for from the Libs, after being elected, is a curb on the massive spending and far better management of projects. Thrift and enterprize has to be encouraged.

Belly, the advantage of being a AGW sceptic is that if evidence comes to light that humans do cause climate change, I can easily change my mind. If that does happen, I am sure Tim and big Al will let us all know. Until then I will keep on keeping on.

Some argue that you take out insurance don't you? Yes but only if the premimums are affordable. The cost in this case, to be effective, is too high.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Almost as funny as the run from the Parliament Chambers
by Mr Abbott and Christopher Pyne which made it around
the globe.

As much as I am no Labour supporter, I was upset to see the demise of Nicola Roxon's political career today, as she resigned.

It seems the Labour Party is all but sunk at the coming election, with the latest resignations and reshuffles.

I am disgusted by Christopher Pine's comments on Roxon's reasons for resigning.
He intimated that if he can handle political life as a father of 4 children, then surely she could not be giving up when she has only one child.

He has no idea of her personal circumstances, and his smug face made me want to slap it!

Oh woe is me... I just can't handle the awful thought of Abbott as PM.....

Dear Suse,

You're not alone.

You should see what they say about him on
Facebook.

Yeah...Shallow Minister.....

We've got all this to look forward to:

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/christopher%20pyne

: (

>>I just can't handle the awful thought of Abbott as PM<<

I'm scared too:

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3925803776/hED6530B6/

Cheers,

Tony

Well girls, we have had to put up with Rudd firstly and now Gillard, so no doubt you will survive, and maybe thrive, under the Libs.

At the next election after you will be far better off financially and Australia will again have a future to look forward to.

A continuation of the current Labor would be absolutely disasterous for our future generations. Maybe later, Labor can rebuild with a better crop of decent and compedent politicians. The current situation is entirely Labors own doing. In other words, they have stuffed it. Poor fella my country!

When you consider their record, no sane person could expect good public support for labor.

<< Woe is us - who have such a dearth of talent from which to choose. As I've opined before - in a population of 22 million, with the majority of voting age - we are reduced to the present choice - amazing! >>

Poirot, it certainly is amazing.

Hwaaaw! ( :>(

Wobbles,
said:
"As for the typical backhanded "elitist latte sippers" tag, I think you will find more of them living in conservative seats than in the western suburbs. I also don't know where you got the data on volunteer work "always being done by conservatives" but it's well known that the poorer are comparatively more generous when it comes to donating to charities."

I think you are confused of what latte sippers are. Latte sippers are the trendies (more known as liberals in the US) - you know status seekers, elitists, the narcissists - they either live in the eastern burbs (Sydney), inner city, around the harbour, basically Labor voters. Most of the poor are conservative - they are the ones turning to Liberal as they've had a gutful of Labor who constantly let them down and have betrayed them, instead Labor are cowtowing to minority issues, ie. no longer for the good of the common man.

And I wasn't talking about donating, but active community volunteering - like Abbott. Latte Sippers do not do this. They only chatter (you know, the chattering classes) while holding a glass of chardy, banging on how moral and superior they are while policing other peoples thoughts who they are so vindictive to (ie the poor people) who do not get a chance to have their say, like the sippers do. They are also known as Beaujolais Bolsheviks.....

Poirot,

I'm not reading any shite from the Queen Cretin of the Lefties. Are you kidding. Is that all you could find?

More importantly is what the calculating PM Gillard did to Tony Abbott on accusing him of misogyny, of all people, just because he is a bit blokey. What she has done is softening the real meaning of misogyny, and then the idiots (latte sippers) try to change its meaning in the Macquarie Dictionary. In the end comparing it with sexism. Which is so demeaning to the women who have already suffered misogyny abuse. It is so disgusting what Gillard did, and then she gets applause from the insensitive dumbos. Where are the so called feminsists in all this.

One award winning Australian author, Wayne Grogan who knows the real meaning of misogyny, as he has written about it, has since challenged Gillard. Good on him, I say!

www.storycentral.com.au/.../terror-australis-author-takes-aim-at-gillar...

http://www.6pr.com.au/blogs/6pr-perth-blog/misogyny-defined-for-pm/20121105-28uco.html

Just can't get enough of these:

http://funbench.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Julia-Gillard-Fell-Down-in-India.jpg
http://andysrant.typepad.com/.a/6a01538f1adeb1970b017c329592ed970b-800wi
http://images.smh.com.au/2012/12/28/3918631/art-353-gillard-20goes-20down-300x0.jpg

I believe they needed a crow bar to extract her tent peg nose from the ground.

And finally, Gillard's 2010 message to those who voted for Labor believing her promises:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mtuBY88_2To/UMAuHLmWqZI/AAAAAAAAHhM/8LS8U0D3Rfs/s1600/Julia+gives+the+finger.jpg

Paul, you have to be kidding, the greens you say.

What a hypocritical bunch they are, using and abusing everything the industrialized world has provided, while criticizing those who provide the same.

Poirot, well at least it finally appears that even you are accepting defeat of your much beloved labor party.

BTW, Tonys best campaign strategy would be to sit on his hands and say and do nothing while the labor ship deserts the sinking rats.

I had to laugh when Julia thanked the departing ministers for their efforts, because their greatest achievements were the opening of our formerly well protected borders, and the confusing plain packaging of tabbacco products. Now I say confusing, as it has caused mass confusion to retailers and not stopped people from smoking.

Yep!, some achievements alright.

To my old mate 579, may you dwell in your self made hole of self pity, as your beloved labor party is in for a QLD style royal flogging.

As for the school bonus, it is nothing more than a vote buying 'cash splash' by an even more desperate government.

Now if it were not a cash splash, it would have been in the form of a debit card, similar to the tool allowance scheme, whereby it can ONLY BE USED FOR SCHOOL RELATED EXPENSES.

As for Tony balancing the books, please tell me, how can anyone be expected to balance the books when they don't know where the starting point is?

Hasbeen, or what about her trying to tell the rest of the world how to run their countries.

I suppose in her defense we do have the worlds smartest man, apparently.

He can't balance the books, but apparently it not his fault when he spends first and hopes to collect later.

Come September 15, many will be saying, Wayne WHO!

Let us not avoid the truth.
Gillard is the second most hated politician in Australia.
Abbott has a tenuous hold on the most hated.
What a great election we will have!
Watch, see, the usual suspects try to avoid the truth.

belly,
You need to get out more.

Gillard is by far the most hated politician ever in Aus, and by a mile.

Most people turn off or mute the TV when she is on because they cannot stand to hear her voice and are not interested in her lies.

Butch You are in fairy land, Where do you get your figures from. Qld is a basket case. No doubt they will be looking for money to rebuild again.
Of course that money will be forgotten about by the liber lot when it's convenient.
Does the state have flood insurance, or is that been abolished to.
Abbott does not have the skills necessary for of the cuff debate. If it is not written down he is liable to say anything.
I honestly can't find a reason for him other than try and bring down a govt; in 2010. And that failed dismally. Turnbull is still in with a chance.

"Most people turn off or mute the TV when she is on because they cannot stand to hear her voice and are not interested in her lies."
Big Brother Banjo is in our living rooms.
"Gillard is by far the most hated politician ever in Aus, and by a mile." I would doubt that. Craig Thompson would most likely out point her on that score at this very moment. Is Eddie Obeid still classed as a politician?
The election campaign is up and running. If Julia does not believe that by announcing the date she didn't trigger the start, she's wrong. Plenty of politicians and would be politicians on the blower looking for support right now.

Constance,

"I'm not reading any shite from the Queen Cretin of the Lefties..."

I wouldn't expect anything less from you in the rhetoric department.

Keep up the good work! : )

SM,

When you turn ten, can we all come to your party?

Abbott says the front bench is the same one going to an election. What a stupid thing to say. What does that do for you.
Pyne and bishop 1&2, if that is their total depth it will fall apart.
You must have substance and new faces don't do any harm. You can not cost something that does not exist. It's the revolving door sindrome, excitement plus

Banjo, Mate, get out less!
Spend time away from the local farmers hang out.
Get time to read the polls.
Mate I am loven it!
Very little doubt exists in my mind Abbott is on borrowed time.
Gillard has no hope, but his party will remove the silly strutting little man,even if it is after he wins!
Polls tell us Labor can not win, and you grin!
They say Abbott is more disliked than Gillard?
And you charge, on to your own barbered wire fence.

You are right Belly, Abbott is definitely less popular than Gillard, as all the polls show.
I agree that Abbott is on borrowed time.

Surely the Liberals realise they can win the next election because of the mess Labour is in, and not because they have a great leader or policies?

If they changed their leader to Turnbull, they would romp it in....

You see 579, that's where your showing your bias again, as you could most likely fit the entire roads of NSW, VIC and the ACT into QLD, so as Anna Bligh stated, insuring QLD is an unaffordable option.

Not only that, but our population is smaller, so taxes/funding and population generally go hand in hand.

I do however recall that she had one of the ind hold a political gun to her head, insure or go without the much needed assistance after the 2011 floods/cyclones.

Of cause, the mining tax FLOP was to take from QLD and distribute to the southern states, but hey, where in the make up of the flopped mining tax is fairness mentioned.

As I say, typical southern bias, what's ours is ours, but what's your is also ours to share, but only the profits, not the funding needs.

Nice one mate.

Suze, it simply confirms my suggestion we are once again in a race to the bottom as far as our political situation goes.

My predictions are two things, labor will be flogged and we will be in pain, not because of the libs gaining power, but more so because someone has to take the bull by the horns and fix the mess labor has created.

Unfortunately it may take more than one generation.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/government-unravelling-like-hitlers-regime-pyne-20130203-2ds7y.html
Thanks suseonline, in fact the man represents the best chance Labor has.
I just love the failure to see any wrong on their side some show!
Fun, truly and for the most part telling.
However my thoughts about the ALP currently are well known.
But in daring to point out Christopher Pyne is a MUG/DOPE, and a foul one will bring the roof down on me.
We can relax,constant improvement in any party needs both eyes open at all times not just the usual one we see here.

funny how much bitterness is oozing and he has not even got the job yet. And this coming from those who backed Latham, Rudd and Gillard. Abbott must have something very special as his opponents are such atrocious judges.

He has an attitude that shows these losers up, runner.
Just look at the history and current hypocrisy that drives the vile from their mouths.

They're the ones that complain about everything and when something needs to be done they demand some poor beggar do it for them at the point of a gun.

I like Constance's term, Beaujolais Bolsheviks. Never heard that one before, fitting :)

Better still.
The two under informed posters above may like to read this mornings polls.
Yes Labor is gone, yes Abbott made ground.
Perhaps I fish in a long dry river, asking these two for informed comment.
But it would be nice, even uplifting, if truth and facts come from reading that poll, cutting it in slices.
Consuming its every word.
Gee here I go again, seeking that rare jewel common sense in a desert!
But let us try.
The poll says it clearly, AUSTRALIA DISLIKES THEM BOTH, often Abbott more than the knife welding Ms Gillard.
Given a choice this country would put both of them on a used refugee boat and send them to sea.

Something not quite right with these polling figures Belly?

Gillard as preferred PM goes up, ALP’s TPP goes down.
Gillard as preferred PM goes down, ALP’s TPP goes down.

Abbott as preferred PM goes down, LNP’s TPP goes up.
Abbott as preferred PM goes up, LNP’s TPP goes up.

Is there something I’m missing here?

I see the election campaign has started in usual style, with Juliar (future ex PM) stumbling from stuff up to crisis etc.

The question is whether Juliar will survive 'till Sept 14

I hope not SM but then again my wish for my party,s best chance is not shared by the Vulturous folk waiting to control the wreckage of it, post our loss.

"""
The two under informed posters above may like to read this mornings polls.
"""

That koolaid you you drink must be so wonderful, where can I get some?
For someone who claims to not believe in gods, you sure are a strong disciple for a false set of gods that by illusion deceive you into believing the unbelievable. Even manipulate you without your knowing to prophet false claims paid for and connived with the stolen fruits of your fellow brethren.

People like you sir are a danger to all good things in this world.

You have to wonder about many of these polls. When it comes down to counting the actual votes, it always seems that the Libs do better than any of the polls have suggested.

Interestingly in the preferred PM poll on Yahoo7 yesterday Abbott scored over 50%, & Gillard down in the 40% area.

No not worth the effort RM.
Come hasbeen, think.
Reveling in the polls you like.
Rejecting those you dislike, is?
Well it asks questions about your understanding.
You, if you look, will see some from my side,unhappy with my intensive questioning of the wrongs in my camp.
But they, like you, are too fixed in defending a side, they do not even see, truth gallop past.
Abbott is thought of as the polls show.
Take a breath, prepare your defense.
In time, LIBERALS will dump the foolish little man,

In light of the polls. what's stopping Rudd from having another go, on the grounds "the people demand it" or some such crap. Blame it all on the 'evil witch' and have a ceremonial burning at the stake, Swanee can do a budget on the cost of the wood pile and how much co2 the fire is going to generate, that will take a few months. Easter is coming, Rudd can nail the Mad Monk to the cross, literally no ceremony there with Hockey and Payne either side. how appropriate. When the election rolls around Kev'ie wins 150 seats. The Mad Katter becomes the official opposition and spends the next 3 years explaining why there are no gays in North Queensland. Abbott will be okay Archy Pell will lend a hand by giving him absolution and a one way ticket to heaven. You ask what happens to the evil witch? She went off to defend Craig Thompson, proving him to be a godly man of virtue, they fell in love, ran off together and are living happy and well in a union paid for castle in Monte Carlo.

I hope Rudd does not get another chance at PM. He failed miserably the first time around and some of his popularity is due to his axing as PM ie. the underdog phenomenon which is understandable to some extent except that he was just an awful PM.

I am surprised the LNP haven't put Turnbull in the leadership role yet, but it may be too late. This is a sure way to win the next election and might move ex-LNP supporters disappointed with the LNP's shift to Conservatism and to the Right, back to the fold.

Unfortunately I think the tone of the electioneering will be scandal ridden and muck-raking if the past two years is any indication.

Rudd and Turnbull are up against it.
Both being far more popular than the twits currently in the job.
But it is unlikely we have seen the last of either yet.
Love the Tory posts from our Paul.
A true very lost lefty eating his own fingers to get even with the very party his team need to leach on to have any power, put the greens last, not far enough down the ticket but we need our votes to count, so conservatives before greens.

Belly, not seen you posting lately, where have you been? Down at the ICAC giving a character reference for Eddie Obeid.

From the SMH:
"THREE of Labor's most senior politicians - the federal Environment Minister, TONY BURKE, Communications Minister, STEPHEN CONROY, and the NSW Opposition Leader, JOHN ROBINSON, have been dragged into a corruption probe after admitting they accepted lavish ski trips from the ALP powerbroker Eddie Obeid."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/labor-mates-snowed-under-by-eddie-obeids-generosity-20130205-2dwm0.html

What about that lemon Iemma, The ALP want's to put him up for election. they must be scraping the bottom of the barrel. Like Hair Doo Keneally another Obeid stooge!
Belly what about your mate ROBBO should drag him down to the ICAC, give him a bit of a grilling, don't you think? The Long Bay branch of the ALP is the biggest in OZ. bar none. Fatty O'Barrell had to build a new wing, they call it The Rex Jackson Memorial Wing. Belly as you know every time I mention the Long Bay Branch I have to ask How's Milton doing?

Following is my list of Labor luminaries you can trust:

That's it' Do like Penny Wong.

Don't worry the Liberal list is even shorter if that's possible

Paul 1405, is that the number of members of the greens.
Old fella You have lost ground, here and in the polls 9% lovin it.
Always irritated me, that so many voted for your team.
Two new leaders have fixed that.
Still if it amuses you to be contemptuous to my party, self amusement is the best some can get, enjoy.
But do not try to change history.
My post history supports my view, our maggot's are bigger than yours.
But so are our brains.

That's a very interesting point, Belly.

It is quite remarkable, is it not, that the obvious dislike that the public holds for the two Party leaders has not a) transferred to the popularity of the Parties themselves, but more interestingly b) has not translated into increased popularity of the existing alternative to those Parties.

By rights, the Greens should be seeing masses of defectors from the mainstream pair. Instead, they are still where they have always been, a marginal, slightly annoying rump.

I suspect that their performance as Labor's puppetmaster in their coalition-of-convenience over the past couple of years has done absolutely nothing to enhance their credentials as honest brokers, nor has it positioned them as viable in their own right.

It will be fascinating to take a look at their policies as and when they emerge.

Just for you Pericles: Lots of GREEN policy here:

http://greens.org.au/policies

Here is the link for the coalitions policy's.

www. I_ HAVE_ NO_ IDEA_.fool.au

Labors policy is being spelled out at the ICAC right now.

Come on Belly how about a comment on the Obeid free-bees to Labor mates.
BURKE, CONROY and ROBINSON. IEMMA liked to pop around to Odeid mansion when he was running NSW, that's the lemon was running NSW not Obeid as if Ha Ha.

"My post history supports my view, our maggot's are bigger than yours." Please don't try to tar The Greens with Labors dirty brush. These days the ALP has a monopoly on political maggots.

Oh dear.

>>Just for you Pericles: Lots of GREEN policy here: http://greens.org.au/policies<<

That's what I was afraid of - the policies you have when you don't actually have policies, just fairyland wish-lists.

The twenty-eight "policies" enunciated under the heading "The Australian Greens believe that... Animals have intrinsic value, separate from the needs of humans" are a good start, when it comes to assessing what a Green government might look like. Costing those "policies" (sorry, the inverted comas are essential) in terms of their impact on our international trade alone would take forever.

They would of course give a few Tasmanian tree-huggers a warm glow, as they collected a few more berries for their dinner and took them back to their wattle-and-daub huts.

But I doubt they will grab the attention of many others.

Here's a tip, Paul1405. Don't share that web site with anyone whose vote you would like to attract at the coming election. Actually broadcasting what Green "policies" consist of would constitute the death-knell of the Party.

Hello all, this thread is good fun. Can someone tell me why the consensus seems to be that Malcolm Turnbull has been sidelined just because an election date has been nominated? I don't understand. Generally, I agree with Belly and I see a change coming, not necessarily a good one but a change nonetheless. When it is all said and done we didn’t do that badly under John Howard. Keep up the provision of ammunition for the next dinner I attend where left and right are well represented and vocal, about a week away.

On election night I will be warn out trudging the streets hospitals and nursing homes pre polling the lot.
And the day at a polling place handing out HTV.
Not expecting to hope.
But will watch Katters kids, what roll will they play.
Greens how low will they go.
NSW how bad will it be.
QLD same.

Pericles,

People in glass houses should not throw stones.

I would rather have policies on a web site regardless of how 'bad' you might think they are. If you want to read Labor Party policies, firstly pick up a copy of the police charge sheet against Thompson. Labor policy number 1. Spend the hard earned of low paid workers on pro's and a good time for yourself. Then take a trip to Sydney and listen to the grilling of Labor Party luminaries at the ICAC. Policy number 2 Get together with your Labor cronies and rip off the tax payers.

Policy 1 Rip off the workers for you own gain.
Policy 2 Rip off the tax payer for your own gain.

Labor only has 2 policies. and they both involve ripping people off.

Belly as usual has nothing to say about those Labor hacks I asked about. Its all a bad dream, one day you will wake up and realise it all true, what will you do then? At the NSW State election 'Hair-Doo' Keneally, another friend of Obeids, Eddie has friends in the ALP all over the place, 'Hair-Doo' copped a 16% swing. So Gillard should be looking at a minimum 10% in NSW.

Belly as a rank and file ALP member I can see that handing out HTV's and sweeping up the butts after the wake to mourn the dead Labor Party is about the amount of power the ALP give to their rank and file.
To put you in the picture The Greens are risking very little at this election. One lower house seat and 3 senate positions Tas, SA and WA.
If Adam Bandt gets the flick from the lower house, so what its going to be a landslide to the Tories anyway.
As for the Senate we will hold our seats in Tas and SA and if we loose WA then we have a strong chance that Cate Faehrmann will get up in NSW.
Looks like you are in for one miserable election nigh.
My election interest centers around getting Cate elected and doing my best to see the incumbent Labor hack gets rolled in the local seat.
I am looking forward to 3 years of Abbottism, it will do The Greens no end of good. Its time for Australia to once again experience the Tories in all their glory.

Paul,

How would you feel about a DD election where you stand to lose much more?

SM you will not get an answer from old Paul.
May I answer?
Yes it is likely we will get a DD election.
While uninformed chooks will be surprised the nature of half Senate elections exposes only one Green to danger.
Katters kids will have an impact, but only in taking a Labor or Liberal Senate seat, IF anything.
A DD well yes it will be what ever else the near death of the greens.
And needed as much as this Parliament needs Civility.
I am , as you know, not overoptimistic about Labors chances.
But firmly more than hopeful, about a DD, by then Gillard will be gone, Abbott/Turnbull threatening,so may be sadly no DD fear may stop the we have no policy's but saying no, Tea Party.
DD please, we must get the nine per-centers and going down out of this country,s hair.

I will continue to commit my vote to the Greens this election, but who to preference? I generally prefence Labor but this time my votes may go to other minorities such as the Pirate Party who are a small concern; while their focus is on copyright and censorship they also have an agenda of transparency and democratic reform. And there is hope of a Wikileaks Party being up before the election. Even KAP have a few good policies but they cannot be trusted with a far Right agenda on some aspects and their anti-gay stance reflects a failure of recognising human rights, so a bit risky from my POV.

Real change in representing people over the disproportionate influence of corporate interests will only come if we all vote with our feet. Telling the two major parties enough is enough is good for democracy. In essentials there is little to separate the LNP and ALP overall. The broader agenda is the same even if in the minutae of policy making there are some discernible differences.

I would love to know which Greens policies people find so objectionable.

It is not so much that they are objectionable, pelican.

>>I would love to know which Greens policies people find so objectionable.<<

After all, who can object to motherhood?

It is just that they are uniformly unworkable, and if implemented would rapidly turn this country into an economic wasteland, cut off from the rest of the world by what are unilaterally selfish international policies.

I once heard a voter, on leaving the booth tell us he had voted in a balanced way.
He thought voting for Latham in the lower house and Howard in the senate was balanced.
Now greens do not need or have policy's, they know they can say anything, and never have to deliver.
Our future in the short term, may be controlled by minority's in the Senate, Katters kids, and until after a DD, greens.
But our basic truth is ,it returns to two party preferred.
Given a Liberal majority government looks the out come, rest assured a difference will not be hard to find.
Hard to avoid greens defense policy's, coal, anti timber, a host of job taking policy's.
And dare I, is PC a threat to honesty?
Hard hat on here I go!
The Gillard failure, along with NSW last Labor leader, and QLD,s
Men are not going to vote for a female LEADER, yet.
A great one will come one day, the slip from 12% under Brown to 9% under current leadership supports my thoughts

Pelican, you are like many Green voters, regardless of what a poster like Belly will put up. His fear is that in some way The Greens are this terrible danger to Labor. The biggest danger to the Labor Party is the Labor Party.

SM you ask: "How would you feel about a DD election where you stand to lose much more?"
Unlike so many here I am not particularly concerned with or interested in 'short term politics', although it is of some importance. My interest lies in the longer term, and seeing people in power in this country that would make a real difference to the lives of ordinary Australian. I don't believe the big two parties represent the people. Come September there will be a changing of the guard in Canberra, but fundamentally nothing else will change. You ask about a DD, if that was to be, I see it as another fight to be fought in the political game.
(Belly you are the only one on this forum who never answer questions. I have put about 20 of them to you and you are yet to reply to one. Try this one from above. Belly as usual has nothing to say about those Labor hacks I asked about.)

He appears to be proud of it!

Cough!....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-07/brough-speaks-on-slipper-case-involvement/4506862

And so does Tony....

Cough, cough!.....

Belly, "Men are not going to vote for a female LEADER, yet"

Codswallop. That is the tired old 'sexism' mantra of the radical feminist tuskers of last century. Eighties feminist B.S.

As well, it is their way of excusing the poor performance and shabby behaviour of the Gillards of the world, who ride the feminist bandwagon into jobs they are incapable of performing.

But just look at the evidence, it was (back room Labor) men who put Gillard there. Idiots. Rudd and other men have been shafted to get Gillard in, prop her up and serve as the whipping boys for her arrogance and excesses.

Gillard has had more support (and undeserved!) than any male leader could ever have dreamt of. Now Rudd is being suckered back to prop her up for the 8 month election campaign. -After what Gillard did to him!

Pericles
One of the most common heard objections to the Greens is that they want global governance. Hardly cutting themsleves off even if the interpretation of this sits in the realm of world domination conspiracy theories (not from you).

There is no party in existence that will provide policies that will satisfy their followers 100% of the time. The Greens are the only party that understand the importance of our place in the ecosystem and the importance of environmental protection in the long term. Without this respect there is risk of destroying that of which we depend. I cannot see the ALP or LNP taking that responsibility seriously.

You may be referring to free trade vs protectionism. If there is to be free trade as we experience it now, some of the negative aspects need to be looked to ensure all participants, from poorer to richer nations, benefit without this blind acceptance of 'trickle down' effect which is clearly flawed. In many countries locals cannot afford to purchase some of their staple food crops thanks to higher prices achieved OS.

I can't see the two majors addressing those issues - they haven't so far. Social or economic justice based policies are not unworkable. We humans are innovative and capable of constructing systems that can work better to benefit a majority of people. If this is motherhood I will at least give it a shot.

The Greens if anything are more embracing of the needs and interests of all nations, and tend not to reflect the sort of nationalism that serves the interests of the most influential or powerful group. That is hardly cutting themselves off. I may have misinterpreted your stance.

Paul
Yes the ALP is doing a great job of self-destruction. I don't know if the Greens will do better this election, the predictions don't look good. The bogey-man of minority government might see them lose some seats. Or not. Maybe the poor performance of the two major parties will lead to a higher vote. I cannot predict the outcome in this very unusual election atmosphere.

Hi Pelican,

Something I am involved in, kiva Loans, and please I'm not suggesting you join, that is a personal decision, but I would like you to comment on the concept, as another with a social conscience. A friend of mine who incidentally is a member of the Pirates Party put me onto Kiva. I think it is better than straight out charity, it helps give people in third world countries fulfillment and a degree of self worth. On the practical side it allows people access to money they would otherwise be denied. Strangely its been my experience that the borrowers do pay back, and as the good old capitalist I am, I reinvest that money and some new money. My portfolio keeps growing and growing, but I never want to collect a dividend.

http://www.kiva.org/?gclid=CLaE2_v_pLUCFQZcpQodTkcAIA

onthebeach, good morning so it is cods wallop.
Well you need to understand it is in fact true.
Quite easy for you to make the statement, a standard issue PC one.
But your bucket has no bottom!
Right or wrong it remains the truth.
No I am not sexist, I know, without doubt, a woman will emerge to kill that bias.
We however do not have her yet.

Straw man, pelican.

>>Pericles One of the most common heard objections to the Greens is that they want global governance.<<

That may well be true. But I was not basing my points on "commonly heard objections".

I referred instead to the Greens published policies. Which are economically destructive internally, and unilateral in their setting rules for international engagement.

>>You may be referring to free trade vs protectionism.<<

That is the most obvious concern, although not the only one. What seems to have evaded Greens policymakers is that we are part of the world's joined-up economy, and that anything we do that breaks the chain will have repercussions, to a greater or lesser extent. Evaluating the damage a particular trade policy might inflict upon ourselves is a key element of its formation, one that is entirely absent from the published policies.

The development of international trade, incidentally, has been the last century's biggest contributor to the reduction of poverty worldwide. Something else the Greens turn a blind eye to.

>>We humans are innovative and capable of constructing systems that can work better to benefit a majority of people.<<

Quite possibly. So far, though, such systems that have been put forward are heavily freighted with wishful thinking, and extremely light on practicalities.

>>If this is motherhood I will at least give it a shot.<<

Good for you. But the reference to motherhood was simply an indicator that the underlying premise - that we should strive for a better world - is unquestionably "good". Unfortunately, just repeating that over and over again does not create good, workable policy. At some point there needs to be a connection with the world that most of us inhabit.

Pericles
I understand that your position is focused on workability but that is where we part ways. I am certainly not an expert and perhaps some of the objectives may need tweaking or re-thinking like many policy positions. However, I reckon many of the objectives are possible with a united will if you like.

Paul
I love the kiva site. Definitely joining. I have seen a documentary with something similar in India where people were given small loans to start a business or a small market stall. It was very successful for the most part from the feedback so far.

I have have had cause to communicate with the Pirate Party and they seem like a great bunch of people.

In fact I loved the idea so much I will link it again :):

http://www.kiva.org/start

Cheers

Pelican,

The Grameen Bank, initiated in Bangla Desh. I think they won a Nobel Peace Prize in about 2006-2007. Women borrowers seemed to be far more likely to pay back, and on time. The concept of low-interest, small-loans, has spread to much of Africa now. Brilliant !

Joe