Hoellie,

Yes well, the term "for the consideration and comfort of others" shouldn't be aligned to social mores that are static. Imagine all those oldies who had to endure girls cavorting round in bikinis in the sixties - or exposed knees in the twenties.

My earlier point was Kochie's trumpeting of an immature cliche was unnecessary and patronising because most women "are" discreet. Yes I know you've seen a woman flop them out, but you don't see it often. Most of the time women are breastfeeding and people aren't even aware that they're doing it.

That breasts are a male sexual totem is one thing - and it's purely the reason why any activity associated with them is deemed not suitable for public demonstration. It would be nice if such an advanced civilisation could get over the schoolboy titters regarding the nurture of infants, don't you reckon?

Sorry but the analogy of scraping waste out of your nose - and your declaration that you feel no shame doing it - doesn't really work for me. I presume when you're on your own that your feel no shame in eliminating other waste products. Perhaps it's time that women weren't made to feel as if they were doing something that was inconsiderate or discomforting to others because certain mindsets have perpetuated the view that breastfeeding is on the same social par as "picking one's nose".

Some earlier arguments remind me of comments about gays and lesbians... "Why do they have to rub our noses in their homosexual practices?" becomes "I don't want women's breasts shoved in my face."

Being in public often requires behaving in a way considerate of the public. Most women (like most men) are.

For those conflicted about where to look when a woman is breastfeeding, my advice is to look at the baby and say things like, "What a credit to you. S/he looks so happy and adorable and cute. You must be a proud mum." You'll probably be thanked.

"All summed up, men don't want to be seen as a perv." Eloquently argued, H...

Especially voyeurs. Destroys the frisson.

I'd also like to make the point that it's actually quite difficult to see more than 30 percent of the breast when a baby is suckling. There is more breast exposed at the beach than when a mum is breastfeeding.

I don't see the social police stopping women at the beach advising them to be more considerate of people's discomfort.

I wonder why breastfeeding women, in that case, are always given the towel-flick of mild censure? Perhaps it's just to let them know that any tacit toleration of the act of breastfeeding is subject to "conditions".

Well actually I do know why breastfeeding is singled out - and why it is compared to acts of waste elimination.

Like defecation, urination nose-picking, etc...breastfeeding reminds us just how carnal we are. Most of man's "civilising" mores have been an effort to psychologically override the fact that we are animals. We prefer (especially in our public demonstrations) to pretend that we are above all that.

Seeing a human female suckling her infant in the same way as any other mammal would, explodes our little delusion quite literally.

Good points both about the ability for social mores to change. From my observations they change regardless, and old people are already made to walk around in an alien world, and as young people are more adaptable it isn't much to bother seeing things from their perspective.

They'll be dead soon enough.

' most women "are" discreet.'

Which proves my point. Most women take others into consideration, and by their actions agree with 'koshy'. His crime is to be male and middle aged and have a preference on how a women does something. It's disingenuously translated to him dictating a code of behaviour, and worse shaming and banning it altogether. He did no such thing.

'It would be nice if such an advanced civilisation could get over the schoolboy titters regarding the nurture of infants, don't you reckon?'

So you can envision a society where men aren't allowed a preference, or aren't allowed to express it, or men aren't attracted to breasts or men are able to totally change contexts with no residual attraction to breasts in a different context, or where women walk around topless all the time?

I think it would be much easier for women to take a preference on board, and not feel they are 'made' to feel or do anything.

'Perhaps it's time that women weren't made to feel as if they were doing something that was inconsiderate or discomforting to others '

Nobody can 'make you feel'. It is discomforting to some. The actual act is not inconsiderate, it's necessary, it's all in the execution. It's not unreasonable to be aware of the people around you, which is WHY most women are.

'I don't see the social police stopping women at the beach advising them to be more considerate of people's discomfort. '

Why is it when a man admits to a preference, or reveals a sensitivity, it's the 'social police', when a woman does so it's considered a liberating confession to be shared and empathized an luxuriated over.

Anyway do we ignore context altogether?

'"What a credit to you. S/he looks so happy and adorable and cute. You must be a proud mum." You'll probably be thanked.'

Call me an old cynic Trev, but that reads to me as; 'I would love to stare at your tits some more, and see if I can see the nipple when you swap sides. I will make mawkish comments in an attempt to disguise my voyeuristic activities.

Oh what the hell, in for a penny.... 'I will save the outline, darkness and texture of your nipple in my wank bank, to bring out in my sexual fantasies at a later date.'

Hahhaha!

See, all we want is not to be considered a perv.

This is what the eyes of husbands are accusing friends of thinking as their friends talk to the breastfeeding wife.

There, I feel liberated, and I look forward to the tidal wave of empathy and validation that will be forthcoming!