Pelly,

Actually on thebeach reminds me a tad of "antiseptic" (remember anti? - perhaps he's undergone a coastal reincarnation :)

In any case, it's obvious that onthebeach has been here before in another guise. I can always tell by the immediate confidence displayed by "new" posters, whether or not they are actually "newbies".

Poirot
Possibly. I am never good at picking out the newbies from the oldies. :) I left OLO because I was sick of the ridiculous gender arguments. Ultimately it is not about men or women but people, both men and women make mistakes, can be sexist or biased towards their own gender, and are on the receiving end of different sorts of 'injustice'. But thankfully the world is slowly evolving. Trouble is I seem to get the ardent masculinists offside as much as the ardent feminists. Ha ha. Guess that is inevitable.

Pelly,

I wouldn't take too much notice of the response you've received from onthebeach. Most people around here would consider you one of the more balanced and sensible posters. onthebeach is being deliberately provocative to you on this thread - seemingly responding in an over-the-top manner to your views, IMO.

Yes, we all know how much trouble an intelligent species like ourselves has in devising its gender roles and responses.

(I'm glad you come back here occasionally:)

Pelican,

JUDGES make the decisions and women judges are as prone to rulings that are criticised as any other. I gave the link and the case was directly relevant to the subject of the thread, rape.

You unnecessarily introduced the qualifier "male". Your weak excuse is your allegation that male judges make sexist comments. That is a lame excuse and shows likely prejudice.

Poirot,

' feeding a baby with breast milk from a breast is somehow ingrained in "some" people's minds as comparable with defecation, urination and picking one's nose (things that are not done in public in civilised and polite society) - a "shameful act" - and something to be kept well and truly hidden.'

'Shameful'? WTF! A false interpretation of the analogy. The analogy pertains to social mores for the consideration or the comfort of others, class being an exercise in being socially aware. I see no reason why breastfeeding should be immune from etiquette, and it confirms my belief that this is all really about women being immune from any judgement.

What the argument seems to boil down to is that if you think you're within your rights to do something, and it is an objectively good or 'natural'(Synonymous with good these days for some reason) thing you're doing, you should ignore all etiquette. Perhaps even going so far as to rub their faces in it to prove your point? That's not class.

It's not wrong, there's no law against not having class, it's just not classy.

Regardless of what you're doing, whether you feel it is a just thing you're doing, IF it takes little effort to make someone of a different world view and different life experience (ie most old people) more comfortable, why is it such a big deal?

Answer; because women should be immune from judgement. The mighty earth mothers are just and righteous, and the barest expression of discomfort from an old guy brought up in a world where these social discomforts were dealt with by sweeping them into the privacy of people's homes (with the negative result of women feeling isolated, granted), is an outrage!

And I HAVEN'T weakened my whole argument with the last sentence, because lets just weigh up slightly conceal (ie bed discreet) what you're doing from an oldie, against the social awkwardness and discomfort the oldie is feeling.

I feel no shame in picking my nose, I just don't think others would like to see it.

Suze,

'find bare breasts offensive'

Who does? Who has even said this? You're the straw man king! It's nothing to do with offense, it's a possible social awkwardness in men not being able to know how a breastfeeding women wants to be addressed, a woman exposing a sometimes sexual part of her body in public.

It's actually men's discomfort in not knowing how to make a woman comfortable while she's having to expose her breasts in public and wanting to hold a conversation with them. Can no women even at all imagine what it would be like if men had to expose themselves for some reason in a totally non sexual way. I mean I've been to nudist beaches and it's all cool there, but down at the pub?

I fail to see how women cannot relate at all, and somehow turn it into some sort of judgement on what they are doing. In our society even when women go swimming they mostly cover their breasts, yet if any man dares to even relate that he doesn't know where to look when she's breastfeeding, whether the woman wants him to ignore her for half an hour, or stare over her head while he talks to her to ensure she doesn't think he's checking out her tits.

All summed up, men don't want to be seen as a perv. What happens; they get called a perv for what boils down to being conflicted how best to consider a woman's feelings, yet women should have the right to totally disregard his when she could make often simple steps to create a more comfortable social environment.

Posted by onthebeach, Saturday, 26 January 2013 1:22:42 PM

Standing ovation! That's gold.