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The Forum > General Discussion > Does Democracy Destroy Freedom?

Does Democracy Destroy Freedom?

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Well the founding fathers of America certainly thought so all those years ago.

I'm sure you're all familiar with these famous quotes? I'll just include them here again for sentiments.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. -Benjamin Franklin

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
- Thomas Jefferson

It would seem that Australia is well and truly on this path.

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
- Thomas Jefferson.

And I think it was Voltaire that said: Democracy only works until the people figure out they can vote themselves a free lunch. Another path Australia is well and truly traveling.
Posted by RawMustard, Sunday, 6 January 2013 10:48:21 AM
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Lexi>> Democracy does not destroy freedom when several basic
conditions have been met:<<

Lexi I agree with your thoughts, that certain caveats with the aim of limiting the power of government are essential for freedom within a society bound by a democratically elected govt. As an example our current Labor party is actively attempting to stop free speech in our press, re the Bolt travesty.

The theme of this thread is focused on the evolving cultural mix that has altered the first world societies. Cultures built up over the past 200 years in the New Worlds and the European cultures that straddle a thousand years or more are in decline simply because of procreation rates.

A culture that manages to replaces itself with an almost static birth rate can survive; in fact that is what the sustainable earth crowd is chasing. But the same ideologues want, and have achieved a swamping of these first world nations with religious zealots who breed like they are living in the Old Testament.

I exampled the Ultra Orthodox Jews and the Muslims, the reason is that both the Zionists and the Arab Fundamentalists have a political agenda running side by side with their religious ideology. The immigrants from a hundred nations that formed societies in North America, Australia and New Zealand found cohesion because of religious freedom and a SECULAR state. Middle Eastern Muslim immigrants work towards a single religion state, as do the Zionists in Israel.

So my premise is that a democratically elected government of the persuasions I mentioned can and would strip the personal freedoms such as religious choice and freedom of association from the 49% that did not vote for them.
Posted by sonofgloin, Sunday, 6 January 2013 11:36:35 AM
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WW, you remind me of an old old German mate who said to me “at least when Hitler was in power you could leave your pushbike in the street overnight”.

A strange but valid comment, you couldn’t voice an opposing opinion on fear of death but you did not become a victim of material theft. I look at New York City, a zero tolerance to crime mandate has seen crime fall to 1960’s stats. Our governments can implement harsh zero tolerance policing and we can still keep our individual freedoms.

Constance and RM I agree with your thoughts.
Posted by sonofgloin, Sunday, 6 January 2013 11:39:11 AM
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Spndoc>> I think that western democracies have the basics of a reasonably balanced system however; I’m not comfortable with the socialization of many aspects of our lives. IMHO, it is this socialization that distorts and divides our communities, thus it is in conflict with democracy<<

Good observation SD, it is all about being as homogeneous on as many levels as we can, but allow individual freedoms such as religion and associaation. But if laws are broken, being a minority should not protect you as it certainly does in the Politically correct administrations of the first world.
Posted by sonofgloin, Sunday, 6 January 2013 11:46:50 AM
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RawMustard,

Thank you for the quotes. Personally, I had forgotten some, and didn't know the others.

Regardless, they all have the ring of truth, and yes, we are on the slippery slope as well. Obviously the welfare recipients want to retain their entitlements, and the growing number on welfare unfortunately will adversely affect the polls.

To be fair, there are those who would prefer to regain employment which they lost as a result of our economic downturn - a fact which has been denied by government, but nevertheless exists outside of the mining sector.

Conversely, there are also many who simply don't want to work, and are content to be supported by our taxes - in the form of subsidised housing, free medical assistance, etc. etc.

These long term drones should be forced to work for their money. The beneficial government we have are quite capable of initiating work for the dole.
We read of delays incurred in so many projects, especially our roads, new hospital and school construction delays, and so many other infrastructures now needed by our rapidly increasing population.

If nothing else, it would give back these drones the work ethic they have lost. Why should working people shoulder the burden of allowing these dole bludgers to be on permanent holiday?

So we are told we have low unemployment. If the drones were made to work 5 full days per week, theoretically this would reduce our unemployment rate further. There should be a cut-off date, i.e., after 1 or maybe 2 years the dole should be stopped completely. The drones would soon realise their halcyon days are ended when they know that no work, no pay is enforced.

To conclude, there should be no age discrimination against those who genuinely want to work. We should utilise they skills they have regardless of age. By raising the retirement age to 67, workers are forced to remain in the workplace longer. Could this be because we need their money to support the drones?
Posted by worldwatcher, Sunday, 6 January 2013 11:47:03 AM
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Here's a lengthy article on the seeming incompatibility between capitalism and democracy by Wolfgang Streeck - worth plodding through if you're interested in the subject.

http://newleftreview.org/II/71/wolfgang-streeck-the-crises-of-democratic-capitalism

"Suspicions that capitalism and democracy may not sit easily together are far from new..."
Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 6 January 2013 11:57:36 AM
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