http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/lying-is-easy-turnbull-calls-for-less-spin-20121228-2bybw.html
Why are so many, within Liberal ranks calling for Turnbull to return to the leadership.
Why from the same base are some saying never!
Having given up hope of an ALP change it concerns me that both leaders have others, with far more talent behind them.
It was the Global Warming/Tea Party scare campaign that got Turnbull.
But almost daily reports showing it is not so clear cut seem to point to it no longer being an issue.
Remember ONLY THE METHOD is different in both party,s not the reduction need and target.
In the back of most non Labor voters surely is a little fear, about Mr Nasty, Tony Abbott.

I am often stunned by the failure to remember it was one single vote that removed the man.
No joy in admitting it but he, instantly would take any chance Labor has away.
Both leaders are unloved,Abbott is the only chance, the single only chance Labor has of a victory.
Labor, intent on not reforming, not at least until after defeat, would be blind sided by Turnbulls rise.
At some point, maybe after it wins office next year,the Liberal party will return to being a LIBERAL ONE.
Nasty man Abbott and just a few, his closest supporters flirt with American Tea Party Republicanism.
Yet without doubt most Liberals are just that, Liberal.

Belly you are highlighting the one thing Labor are unfailingly good at.

Picking dreadful people as leaders.

"""
I am often stunned by the failure to remember it was one single vote that removed the man.
"""

You're not real bright are you?

If he lost by one vote and Abbot is so unliked. Wouldn't it be logical to assume that the gold in my sachs man would by unliked by one more?

really, you lefties are just unbelievable. No one likes bankers. Haven't you got it yet?

Turnbull would do much better in the Labour party as he believes the gw myth. Ms Gillard advised Rudd to do nothing about gw showing she is totally deceitful or does not really believe in the myth. As mentioned by others, the Labour supporters have proven hopeless at choosing their own leaders and now want to tell others who to install. Don't forget their last 3 choices.

Raw Mustard thanks, see I like your rude posts.
Each one is evidence its the best you can do.
You front up here intent to prove you are hot stuff and leave with a very real tail between your legs.
Poll show very clearly Australians like the bloke.
In fact two very rich men are liked far more than the two failures we have to pick from.
There is stunning evidence, both party,s do not care what we want.
They care about whey THEY want.
Again RM if you have not already joined thother kidin the yard, thanks, for just being you young fella.

Yet without doubt most Liberals are just that, Liberal.
Belly,
Yep, just like all Labor supporters are just that. Selfish hangers-on.

Yes Turnbull by far the best. Abbott is a minor player compared to Turnbull.
Slipper delivered Abbott that winning vote, and what did he get for his faithfulness.
I am sure at least Turnbull can read.
Abbott with his female problem, i would not be surprised to see a change for a real person.
He would take off like a bullet to.
The fed police have something to play with now, there could be larger movements at hand.

What gets me is why so many Labor supporters are keen to tell the Libs who should be their leader. As runner pointed out, the last 3 chosen by Labor turned out to be crocks, so you would not back a horse on their tip.

Sure nobody likes arrogant bankers and Turnbull did it with his support for an ETS. Must be beneficial for him and his mates?

Critisism of Abbott is undue, he is untried and may turn out to be a brilliant PM. Do not forget that the greatest Labor leader was a mere train driver.

I smell a rat, Labor does not make suggestions beneficial to the Libs.

Abbott with his female problem,
579,
now you're starting to get sillier than Belly with your Abbottphobia. You are the one who's got a problem because you don't appear to have any sexuality at all you're just plain & simply a confused asexual.
Abbott is as decent & switched on a bloke as politics permit unlike the adademic dreamers in the ALP.
At least Abbott can speak from experience when it comes to family matters whereas your lot only has a background of ignorance.

Abbott is a decent and switched on bloke. The man is a political illiterate.
A decent bloke does not engage in slime tactics, This is done because he can not match Gillard on debate. It's seen as his only hope.
Women in authority have no place in Abbott's surroundings.

Hi Belly,

Why not Turnbull?
Good question!

The election is only approx. 8 months away.
We know in politics curve balls are thrown all the time.
Not being a member of any party (policies are what I'm
interested in) and not knowing the inside workings of
each party - all I can comment on is my choice of a
party leader would be - someone who has economic nous,
who is respected in the business community, who would
be able to represent us globally - who has a command of
the English language and speak intelligently and
diplomatically, in fact someone who can transcend all party
differences, which would place him uniquely in a position to be
a national leader, and he'd have to be someone - who would go into
an election prepared to lead the nation with
costed policies that make sense. Mr Turnbull fits the criteria
described.

Unfortunately, Mr Abbott lacks in all these areas. However,
the mentality of a sizeable proportion of the population fears
change to the status quo (tall poppy syndrome).
Therefore Why not Mr Turnbull? I guess only the Party can
answer that question.

Thanks Lexi, Individual, its time bloke.
Your views
IMO are those of a child,no further comment needed.
Liberal is very much different than conservative.
Look at the two currently forming Government in England.
It may well be the thoughts and opinions,of the Belly,s, Banjos and Hasbeen,s , will not count in an election.
I consider myself, strongly still Labor.
And earnestly hope my party returns to that too, well returns power to its people.
The other side has fixed voters who would never change, some at least are seemingly unaware what a Liberal is, and what a conservative is.
Post this hung Parliament, post Sussex Street, NSW fleas, Union skulduggery, people will require middle of the road Governments, Abbott and Gillards knife carriers can not give that.
Turnbull is the call from many in Liberal ranks.

Belly,
I don't give a toss what you tossers think of me. This feigned, false, deceitful to the core up-talking of Turnbull's leadership qualities is nothing short of outright indecency.
To stoop so low as in having to promote an opposition figure is simply a sign that you lot are so hopelessly lost with your outfit.
I just hope the Coalition doesn't have silly enough members to live up to your desperate tactics.
If the Coalition replaces Turnbull with Abbott BEFORE the next election Australia will be finished as a Nation.
The ALP already has all but ruined this country. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the asylum seekers started to look elsewhere.

Look at the two currently forming Government in England.
Belly,
Well observed. Did you also take notice that they just like Howard & Abbott have & will inherited a Labor mess ?
I suppose you strive for a change like that here. In England they let in too many Pakistanis & here your lot let's in too many Afghans. So, even for your sake I hope Labor gets thrown out for the next 25 years.

I am not prolonging the pain indy, IQ above ten is needed in open debate.
I posted this thread in self interest, the interests of AUSTRALIA.
Any who think Turnbull, in any way would be other than a disaster for Labor, is in need of help.
Right now, as my thread and constant words say Labor is far deeper in trouble than its owners think, so too, is the Liberal party.
Those of us who understand, know our country then too, is in trouble.
Tea Party may serve the interests of many here, proving a LITTLE knowledge can be dangerous.
Abbott is a construction, a man walking a tightrope, intent on keeping his real self unseen.
Men dislike and in big numbers will NEVER vote for Gillard.
Women dislike and are likely to vote against Abbott.
Surely some things both sides have in common.
A sick feeling about our current Parliament, a wish that no hung house ever comes again.
And yes if most can not have one vote one value, many WILL preference across the floor, rather than vote greens.
Turnbull offers stability to Liberals, not just this election, that is won now, unless Abbott leads.
But while Labor must swim in the open septic tank of Sussex Street, the emerging Shorten/Conroy Street in Vic, for a generation.
Liberals can have three free election wins,under Turnbull!
Out there in voter land many unlike a few here, know we are far from in trouble, want however to back any one but Labor,because of its PTY LTD ownership, its filth hidden by factions.
My sorrow? despite my detractors it is far more than likely Turnbull, like the last, a great leader of Liberals will rise again.

What do I miss the most here in OLO.
Well constructed thought out reasons I am wrong.
Thats what I miss,Liberals, fine people live here.
They do not rant, good morning indy, they construct a case.
I tend to get carried away, but never from honestly held views.
Those views may be wrong, we all can be.
A well respected occupant of OLO not naming you bloke, told me Turnbulls support for carbon reduction kills his chances for a return.
I disagree, hurts but Labors policy's in my view are OK.
Good in fact, but its behavior questionable.
I yearn for?
Reform in both party,s.
As I fear a Tea Party Liberal Party.
I am terrified by the thought self interested POWER BROKERS, who drove the death of NSW ALP are in control of my ALP.
Turnbull offers His party certain Victory, Nasty man Abbott at any minute in any conversation, could win for the ALP the unwinnable election.

See Belly, this is where you get it wrong, as you care more about who may lead the party, than the party it's self.

In fact It mystifies me to think you can call for Turnbull to lead the libs, yet you openly hate all below him.

Now as for you, you still pledge your open support for labor, knowing full well that this is a party where the faceless men call the shots, not the leader.

Quite frankly, it really wouldn't matter who leads labor, as they would only ever be a puppet.

It's time to take your labor colored glasses off my friend and take a good hard look around at what you have helped to destroy with your loyal, ever forgiving support of this incompitent government.

I say this because you firmly believe that the majority of labor's problems are in their choice of leader.

You are one mixed up cookie old mate!

But happy new year to you anyway. Look forward to sparing with you next year.

Now if you want me I will be sitting in the 'sin bin' , talking to the likes of Indi, cause no doubt you will send me there as you will take offense to what I say.

Why not Turnbull?

They both have a parasitic background insulated from the real world , they both have the same imaginary friend from the same franchise and they both crave power. One is just richer, more articulate and media friendly. Although they are no doubt both decent enough blokes as individuals, they are no more qualified than any one else.

You mob need to look at and analyse the foot soldiers on all sides and the non-democratic nature of our parliament. George Christensen, Jill Hall and Rowan Ramsey all have the same voting power. Perhaps a focus on the lesser players will provoke more balanced thought.

What we need is a Nándor Tánczos to liven up our parliament.

We must remember that Belly is still a fan of Rudd, so is drawn to Turnbull.

You don't have to look too closely to see Turnbull & Rudd are the opposite sides of the same person.

They are both not very bright, but very cunning arrogant animals. Both believe they are invincible, & have dramatically inflated opinions of their ability, however neither are smart enough to seek or take good advice.

Both have real acting ability, & have crafted a public persona, which bears little resemblance to the man behind the mask. What you see is their idea of what you want, & definitely not what you are getting.

Belly mate, Australians were only ever going to elect one of these pretenders to PM. It could have been either, but K Rudd got in first. We will never be quite stupid enough to do it again, even if some Labor types would. Most of us learn at least a little from our mistakes, fortunately.

Stop pining for the man you all hoped, & many thought Rudd was. He never existed, & was just reading a script. Turnbull is just a Paper cut out of Rudd, painted a different colour, & not quite as cunning.

I may just as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.
Rechtub you mate are quite lost, YOU CAME TO A THREAD AND SAID I WAS RIGHT!
Now you say for saying just what you said about Turnbull I am lost?
You should not throw stones it ill suits, your own posts tie you in knots.
HASBEEN, well silly but not unexpected stuff.
Your past did not give you great incite in to politics.
WHY would I knowing my party can not win promote Turnbull.
Or for that matter target MR NASTY ABBOTT?
Truth! what do I do with thoughts that do not support my party,bury them.
Political commentary here is not going to change anything.
But life your head, smell the air.
Then read the polls,60% say they are unhappy with Abbott.
Now let me use the rechtub/hasbeen method of investigating just what that says.
B**DY Labor voters! trying to sabotage us!
Now IF that was true? I can relax, sit smugly back and wait for lady luck to visit Gillard instead of reality.
60%
Insures a labor victory.
back to the sand pit blokes

I like Joe Hockey, to me he seems more empathetic somehow.

After reading his biography, his attitude on the subject of immigration appears to very balanced and rational.

His easy going manner when out and about makes him very approachable, and he displays none of the uptightness we are seeing displayed by leaders on both sides of politics.

Will always remain convinced that people's opinions [ and their subsequent votes] can be partly formed on how we view the personalities in politics.

The ALP supporters hate Abbott because he is an effective leader. They all want Turnbull because they see him as sympathetic to the Labor policies, and they are right. Turnbull had his chance as leader and barely improved on Dr Nelson’s figures. I know how they feel because I want Beazley as the leader of the Labor Gov’t; I know that as long as Beazley (or Swan, or Rudd, or Smith, or Wong, or Combet, or just about any other Labor luminary) is leading the party, the Libs will govern!

As a Liberal supporter I thought I would never see a Liberal Gov’t in my lifetime, and then Abbott was made the leader and he lead the party out of the wilderness into a winning position.

I have been an Abbott supporter for many years, ever since the Howard/Costello gov’t, and I wanted Abbott over Costello. I also know that I could never vote for a Liberal Party lead by Turnbull because I see him as an ALP mole!

My advice to the ALP supporters is get over Abbott. He will lead the Libs to the next election. The Labor supporters need to work out who will lead the ALP. Personally I hope Gillard leads the ALP and the electorate has an opportunity to voice its opinion on her as a leader and as a person.

Geoffrey Kelley

I get no joy out of this, rechtub for a long time was my mate.
He no longer is or can be.
He heatedly insults me, mostly because of his failure, to under stand.
In a thread by arjay, quite a good and long one.
RECHTUB posted on11 day of October at 6.59 and 47 seconds PM.
in agreement with me, well read it your self.
a determination to be seen and heard would be better if it came with the ability to understand, both what your self and others are saying.

Here's a link that's worth a read:

http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/culture/blogs/all-men-are-liars/the-vibe-20121008-27809.html

As the article tells us "there's quite a few people who
keep telling us that 'Gillard Will Lose the Next Election
and Tony Abbott Will Win.'"

The article also states that there's also the reaction from
people, "I can't think of Tony Abbott as PM."

We're told that some of these people vote Labor, but there
are also lots who have voted Liberal and now literally can't
imagine Abbott in the top job. It embarasses them and/or
scares them.

We're told that "Perception is a mighty thing and possibly
that's why Opposition leaders like Kim Beazley, Mark Latham,
Brendan Nelson all crashed and burned. Average punters stood
back and said, "Really? I don't think so!"

The article states that "Tony Abbott may well be a solid
bloke, a good father ... but when he steps into the world
of politics his desire to rule vulgarly consumes his desire
to serve." We're told that "this is not a good look
for politicians - vicious ambition must be gloved, whereas
Abbott seems to understand no other method than bare knuckle
and bared teeth."

We're told that, "Turnbull on the other hand has learned to
mask his ambition; which is what many voters ask - act nice."

The article sums up by "Since losing the Coalition
leadership, Turnbull has stuck to his values, spoken
intelligently and emerged as a true statesman with real-world
economic credentials, setting him apart from the mass of
political thugs on both the Right and the Left who treat
leadership as just a numbers game."

It's this perception that influences the swinging voter
and during elections this does matter. Many people who may
never have voted Liberal in their lives - see Mr Turnbull
as a good choice for Prime Minister. And that's a fact!

Take your boots off blokes you are going to need them.TWO PARTY PREFERRED
libs 54% Labor 46%
55% dislike Gillard
60%dislike Abbott, no indy! not 115%!
Some including me, dislike them both.
Now 55% gillard? mm most are Labor but at least some Liberal? on what basis.
60% Abbott? ok 46% are Labor.
14%? can not be Liberal you blokeS tell me?
ENJOY

Lexi and Sam de Brito, there is an old Australian saying that I love. I love it because it is always true. Stated simply, you should never believe your own b*llsh*t! And I am gratified that Lexi and the leftwing Fairfax press and all the Labor supporters who repeat the claim, “"I have never voted Liberal in my life but I could cope with Turnbull as our PM." are guilty of this silly and un-Australian mistake.

Do you Labor voters really believe that true-blue Liberal voters will see you as being altruistic and offering helpful suggestions to help us get the Liberal Party back into gov’t? Or, is it more likely that we just smile at your stupidity?

Sam has painted Tony Abbott as ‘vulgar’. How does he characterise the Labor Party and Ms Gillard? Just imagine what the likes of Sam de Brito would say if the Howard/Costello or an Abbott Gov’t did the following:

1. Increased the retirement age for women factory workers from 60 to 67!
2. Cut $50 million out of the health budget by denying chemotherapy drugs to Australians.
3. Forced single mothers back into the workforce when their youngest child reaches six years of age!

I challenge Sam de Brito and any other Labor supporter to defend that trifecta.

Imagine if Tony Abbot had been involved in a scandal as damaging as the AWU slush fund caper, and I guess that Sam de Brito could come up with an ad hominem attack that would better ‘vulgar’.

As Belly says above, “TWO PARTY PREFERRED libs 54% Labor 46%” This is one truth I like. Get used to it!

Geoffrey Kelley

Dear Geoffrey,

I don't belong to any particular political party
although I was raised in a family that voted and
supported the Liberal Party. They still do.

As for Sam - I'm not familiar with who he is or
his political inclinations. I simply came across
the Sydney Morning Herald article while surfing the
web and thought that it might add something to this
discussion. If you would have bothered to read the
entire article that I cited - you would have discovered
that the author was just as critical of the PM as he was
of Mr Abbott.
And I think that this reflects the feelings
out in the community.

All the polls indicate that Mr Abbott
is the least popular political leader of the Liberal Party.
So logically, how can the Liberal Party expect to win an
election with such an unpopular leader when there's a
popular leader waiting in the wings. Even Brendan Nelson
was a more popular leader than Mr Abbott, and the party got rid of him.

In any case, the voters will decide for themselves who they
feel is best suited to run the country. This is merely a
discussion of opinions afterall. It would be more constructive
if you could attempt a more civil discourse unless you want to
be subsequently ignored. Bare knuckles and bared teeth don't
impress.

The following link may also be of interest:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/mission-rethink-for-abbott-20120921-26cab.html

Lexi, you ought to know who Sam is; you quoted him after all. And you cut and pasted that Abbott was vulgar.

I think you are being a little sensitive about bare knuckles..... and I notice not one of you socialists have defended your party's three appalling attacks on the 'working family' Gillard and Swan talk so much about. I suspect you are as ashamed of the party as I am.

As you have no defence I am certain you will ignore this post :-)

But Abbott and his team have a better social conscience than Gillard and her crew, and we all know it.

So, keep on asking for the Libs to change leaders, but the only stats that I am concerned with are the two-party standings in the polls.

Lexi, I wish you and your friends a Happy New Year.

Geoffrey Kelley, Metung.

Belly, I still consider you a mate, even if you wish to disregard me.

If you look at my post in this thread, you will see that I have not commented on Turnbul, rather, I have commented on your position on labor and your support for a potential leader, of what you consider to be a bad party.

Even in lib land, the leader is only one person.

Now for the record, I think Turnbul would make a strong leader of the libs, however I would be cautious about his values that appear to be more on the labor side than the libs.

Remember, it was he who supported an ETS that not only would have placed Australia at an unfair advantage, but it was also opposed by the then deputy PM, who is now the PM.

Most importantly, was the timing if this quest for an ETS, as the last thing you want to introduce during a global downturn, is a handicap.

I find it interesting that the same posters who had howardphobia now have abbottphobia. Really it I suspect it is a personal hatred put by some bluntly and by others in a more covert way. I suspect strongly it is because he holds traditional values (faithfulness to wife) and has been greatly successful because of it. Maybe if he had wrecked a few marriages and had a few kids with tatoos and doing drugs his vote among the left would increase. Being a Rhodes scholar shows his intellect is far above most his detractors.

Truth is Belly I sympathise with you regarding the plight of the Labor Party, because they do not stand a chance of re-election with Gillard as leader.

I haven't participated and I haven't even read the posts after about page 5 because the majority of people on this Qld-centric Forum (and their bleatings) now have the Govt they deserve in Newman as their Premier and they bore me.

Truth is the only way that Labor can regain the setting of the agenda in this debate and prevent Abbott doing this with his web of unethical and unprincipled lies and deceptions, is to bring back Rudd, bring back the Mining Tax and bring a Labor Govt back to the game.

If they don't they are clearly doomed because Gillard stands for nothing whilst Abbott stands for a sycophantic ideology not really understood by the Australian population because they are not too bright, but it stands for something; "as retrograde and backward as it is". It is like the NRA in the US and the Tea Party it's fully sick, but some people can hang their hat on it, because they are not very bright.

Worse case scenario is a dumb, ideological Abbott led Govt elected by dummies who don't even really understand what that will mean in own lives.

Looking for another country to live in because this one is already an international embarrassment. End of story.

This is my last post you bunch of arrogant tossers. Don't even bother to say good riddance, because I won't be participating any longer. Bye

Thinker2.

'Looking for another country to live in because this one is already an international embarrassment. End of story. '

Try Iran or North Korea!

Hay thinker, let me know if you need help buying a ticket to anywhere else, I'll gladly put up a few bob.

Oz will be a much better place with one less arrogant twit.

Lexi is right. Blind Freddy can see that if Turnbull was leading the Liberal Party, they would romp in at the polls. Gillard isn't good, but Abbott is dreadful!

Runner " I suspect strongly it is because he holds traditional values (faithfulness to wife) and has been greatly successful because of it."
His 'traditional values' were obviously neglected when he indulged in pre-marital sex after he stopped his Priest training, and believed he had impregnated the woman?

No, that's not it Runner. He let's his religious beliefs cloud his political judgements, especially where women's reproductive rights are involved.
I, and many women, hate that in any man, especially a male politician who may have a say in our lives.

He needs to go...

Dyed-in-the-wool Lefties will always find rationalisations for their dislike, even hatred, for LNP leaders, Turnbull included. As leader, Turnbull would instantly become a silver-tailed banker and worse.

Equally, LNP supporters would do the same to their political opponents. The suggestions from one side for the leaders for the other are always made with malice aforethought, to disrupt the 'other' side.

It is just another opportunity for venting spleen and idle speculative gossip. Tricky in that there is the pretense at liking someone from the 'other' side, but the veiled sledging is always there. It is a waste of time.

Onthebeach, we don't have to be for or against the 2 major parties to have an opinion on their members or their politics do we?

I don't vote for either party, but that doesn't stop me severely disliking Abbott's brand of politics...

IT IS TIME! to divert the thread!
Thinker 2 has just left this forum.
Two points need to be made.
First yes, IT IS MY OPINION, many here are at best uninformed.
But here I charge too, myself, and thinker 2.
I too would not bet on me being part of this forum in 6 months.
I came for robust debate, and to learn.
Yet too it will be me running away, from shadows.
Free speech demands that right.
Even if it is the right to show your self a well fool, is not descriptive enough.
RECHTUB in that posted comment said words to the effect #we have two useless leaders#
Now denys it GK, why truly bother? comment like that asks more questions about the poster!
63% DISLIKE RUDE, Abbott, source SMH today,story who will lead Labor in opposition.
LEFTIST?
Look under your seat each of you throwing that at Labor voters, the small lump stuck to the floor is your IQ!
63% writing slowly,try to keep up, [OK RECHTUB WE ARE STILL MATES] still with me?
Come get the calculators out, or take the boots off.
As you welded on Nasty man Abbott fans show,not all Liberals/conservatives, plainly lost far right, dislike Abbott.
[you owe me a beer rechtub]
Keeping up?
So 63% of the country? well it is a national poll, [ Gillard do not get carried away, unless it is on a rubbish truck].
Still here, good, 63% now we know those left wing beggars the ALP are trying to put one over on us.
But how did they get 63% of Aussie voters to blacken Dear Tony?
RUBBISH, LEFTY JUNK thats what it is!
Left of center posters we have a choice.
Stay and piddle in the right wing swimming pool or leave tail between our legs.

I find it ammusimg that all you labor supporters who bag CN, don't for one minute consider why QLD is in the predicament it's in.

The truth is that years of labor neglect has led to the neccecity from CN to try to riegn in some of labor's debts, a result of their careless missmanagement of our economy.

Kinda rings a bell, doesn't it.

It must be a labor thing. In fact, it is a labor thing, as history doesn't lie.

So back to CN and QLD.

What do you knockers suggest as an alternative? Remembering that the over spending simply had to stop.

Is it CN or the way he is going about his agenda.
Abbott is not liked as people see him as a radical, where Turnbull is middle of the road.
Bodies like Newman and Abbott have to first control the masses, to implement their style of govt;
They then by doing this makes their tenure short lived.
Uppercrust welfare, is that the way to go.
Abbott lives in a time that can not be replicated, it's stupid to think so.
There is a body of folk here that spruke Abbott at any cost, without even a policy Abbott is the man.
I see Abbott as a weasel, not to be trusted, his style as a leader in opposition says it all.
Tea party tactics never got anywhere elsewhere, and yet he persists with their tactics here.
How many times has this man made a fool of himself with unrehearsed comment. He is not showing leadership qualities.

CN is facing a shocking half yearly report , the state is now in worse shape than when labor left office. With 6+% unemployment looming his 4% unemployment is a dream.
His cost cutting have been nothing more than a exercise to pay for his election promises.
Citizens are paying more tax now than at anytime under labor. With a second wave of sackings yet to happen, and the states finances at an alltime low. The stage is set for asset sales.
QLD is in decline as revenue streams are drying up, and CN has done it all himself.

Dear Geoffrey,

No. You've got it wrong. I didn't know
who Sam was. As I stated previously - I
found the Sydney Morning Herald article on
the web - and thought it made sense.
It's that simple. If you choose not to believe
me - that's something over which I have no control.

You can make whatever assumptions you wish but
according to polls Mr Abbott is the least popular
Opposition leader in the history of this country.
And there must be a reason for it. Perhaps people
don't want a leader who's a throwback to the 1950s,
who puts his personal ambition ahead of everything else,
and who deals from base level tactics in politics.

Of the Liberal Party politicians, Mr Turnbull comes
across as a much fairer and better option.
As stated earlier - "Mr Turnbull has emerged as a
true statesman with real-world economic credentials,
setting him apart from the mass of political thugs
on both the Right and the Left who treat leadership
as just a numbers game."

We can argue this issue as much as we want, however,
despite what opinions each of us holds - its ultimately
the voters who will decide which party to vote for at
the next election. And it will be up to the party to
decide who they want as leader. If Mr Abbott continues
to slide in the polls - it will be interesting to see
if the party will keep him or replace him.

I wish you and yours a very Happy New Year, and may 2013
surpass all of our expectations.

Happy New Year and best wishes to all.
Here's hoping this year sees the demise of Mr.Abbott's political career

Australia deserves a modern leader.
Wh not Turnbull?

rechtub, not joking, your posts OFTEN look like you are.
In C N Queensland has the very type of leader that, in the long term damages his party.
He without reserve fits the shoes of old Joe very well.
Australia likes talking tough.
But too, a truth but for a rigged dury Joe would have spent time in prison.
I very firmly and honestly, think true Liberals are not looking for such men to lead.
The strongest Labor supporter could not, with any honesty, say Howard and Menzies fitted that mold, both however are unmatched for understanding what voters wanted.
A thought, one I hold to be truth.
Those folk who so readily buy the PURE CONSTRUCTED LIE that this country or any part of it is weighted down with debts of Labor.
Who forget the GFC and the pre Howard reforms that set us on this path.
Or the hight taxes of Howard.
Are ill equiped to comment on politics.
Now mate you will be enraged by that.
A truth can not be avoided, one of us is wrong, one under stands very little but falls with ease for every half truth thrown at them.
Politicians, each and every one from all sides love such people.

thinker 2,
that's an oxymoron.

He heatedly insults me, mostly because of his failure, to under stand.
Belly,
what a spot-on self assessment !

The denouncers of Abbott are hopelessly blinded by an academic led smear campaign of the vilest kind. I can not recall any conservatives ever having stooped so low !
Not in this country anyway.
To support the destruction of this country as is being done under Labor is nothing short of treason.

INDY UNFORTUNATELY you took satire as truth.
You as is the norm, went of early.
A look using mathematics at the true meaning of 63% of this country not liking Abbott,a child could understand, is that AT LEAST 20%
OF Liberals, do not like Abbott.
You may do what you wish with the thread.
I am no longer contributing to it.

I am no longer contributing to it.
Belly,
that could possibly be a good precedent for 579, thinker 2 et al. Much obliged.

'No, that's not it Runner. He let's his religious beliefs '

Yeah Susionline the philisophy of the ungodly turning multitudes of young girls into seeing themselves as sex objects has really got us along way. Twenty, thirty partners, a few abortions great! Its does not surprise me you would choose a marriage wrecker ahead of one holding 'religous' values. Where do you think the likes of Gillard get their values from? Neighbours, sex in the city. Femminist really only support their own godless dogmas when it suits them as shown by Labours support of Slipper. No wonder so many of them are apologist for Islam.

I'm sorry Runner, but you have lost me with that last post.
Who is the marriage wrecker?

I am advocating for the return of Malcolm Turnbull to the helm of the Liberal Party.

He has been married for over 30 years, was a Rhodes Scholar, and is a Catholic.
Not much different to Abbott really is he?

However, when faced with the hard decisions while in Government, he did not let his religious beliefs override his sense of right from wrong, and advocated for the right to use of the abortion drug for women, and for continuing the current abortion laws that allow women to choose what is best for their own bodies.

I can certainly see why you don't like him though...

Suseonline,
It's becoming ridiculous how desperate the ALP has become to get it's supporters to try & talk Coalition supporters into making political suicide by talking-up Turnbull who, of course could never win an election. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find a handful of undecided voters to fall for this despicable tactic but hey, that's Labor all over.

'I'm sorry Runner, but you have lost me with that last post.
Who is the marriage wrecker? '

Usually people Susionline who form their godless values from no moral basis. They form totally godless values because they deny God Himself. I would not know where to start with the current Government but I am sure some of the sisterhood could help out if you really want to know.

'He has been married for over 30 years, was a Rhodes Scholar, and is a Catholic.Not much different to Abbott really is he? '
If he was not much different to abbott all those with abbottphobia would have turnbulphobia. I see little evidence of this. They love his regressive (godless) values and his blind faith in gw.

Oh right ... That explains it all then.

If anyone doesn't believe in what you believe in, then they are Godless whores.
Is that it?
I really do feel sorry for you Runner, living amongst such sinners.

I fail to see how/why you are such a fan of the Liberal Party or Abbott, when he has such Godless Catholics as Turnbull amongst the faithful?

Dear runner,

Your political conversation must shift away from
the infantile finger-pointing that now pervades it.
I am surprised at you. You should not condemn
whom God Himself would not condemn. God loves Malcolm
Turnbull, Julia Gillard, equally. God does not need
us to condemn each other on His behalf but to love each
other on His behalf.

God would want you to pray not only for your friends,
but for your 'enemies' as well. And don't pray that
they'll change; pray that you might change, from an
accusatory mind to a loving one.

Susionline

'I fail to see how/why you are such a fan of the Liberal Party or Abbott, when he has such Godless Catholics as Turnbull amongst the faithful? '

I suspect my allegiance to the Liberal party is far less than yours to the sisterhood and its dogmas.

'If anyone doesn't believe in what you believe in, then they are Godless whores.'

I don't know where you pulled that one from Susie. Secular dogmas however often produce many 'godless whores ' as u put it. The evidence is clear.

Lexi

' God loves Malcolm Turnbull, Julia Gillard, equally. God does not need us to condemn each other on His behalf but to love each
other on His behalf.'

Certainly true however when a person is called on to vote, value judgements on policies need to be made. I take it you pray for Abbott. I certainly do for Gillard. To deny that this current Government is toxic because many of its front bench lack character is blindness. I just hope Abbotts cabinet will be a bit although I suspect not much.

One is foolish to think they can seperate a person's personal life when people are in public policy positions. Someone who deny their Creator is far more likely to legislate and encourage young girls and boys to be immoral and to kill unborn babies than someone who knows they are going to held to account. Again I suspect your abbottphobia far outweighs any feelings I might have against Ms Gillard. She has proven herself unable to tell the truth which is consistent with her character. I actually feel sorry for her as I suspect deep down she knows she has lived a lie. One day I pray comes to the One she was taught about as a girl.

Lexi is right Runner, you would do well to heed her advice.

Runner you have such hatred in your heart.
I don't know why I argue with someone who is so steeped in hate for all those who don't believe in what he believes in.

Turnbull would make a great Leader, even though he believes in a God.
Gillard may not have been a great leader, but the insignificant fact that she is an atheist had nothing to do with that.

Whether or not someone believes in an invisible being in the sky doesn't preclude them from being a good political leader.

I have not read all the posts, but a couple of points.

The Labour party has available a few bad choices.
The Liberal party has two, maybe three good choices.

Turnbull I am sure would make a good PM & leader and I think Abbott is
suffering from some years of vicious attacks, culminating in Gillard's
disgraceful mysogeny attack.
Abbott cannot attack the PM without having his sex thrown back at him.
He could in fact be a more down to earth
PM than Turnbull.
I agree that Turnbull is a better speaker and presents very well.
However have we not had enough of show ponies ?
What we need is an intense worker with the ability to sort the public
service BS from the real world.
Our real problem is finding a politician who is willing to believe
that next phase of the world economics is not going to be more of the same.
The only politician that is reported as understanding that we are now
entering a new normal steady state economics is Martin Ferguson.
Any politician that talks of increasing growth, and means it, is
disqualified from running the country.

Bazz,

I still like Joe Hockey.

However, campaign management will play a larger role in the decisions we make this time around. Too much emphasis to date has been placed on personalities [thanks JG], and it is time to remind people that their votes should be made based on party poilicies, not individuals.

With our current enormous deficit generated by Labour, it should be a no brainer who to choose.

The carbon tax decision was made at a time when there were forecasts the mining boom had already showed signs of slowing. Yet this tax was touted as being the revenue boost for government from which we'd all benefit. Hogwash! So far it has produced zero return, but has increased our cost of living, which is pretty obvious to those of us who carefully examine price increases across the board.

Now we hear that the cost of prescriptions will increase. I seem to remember in one of her many speeches JG announcing that health was one of the items on Labours agenda they planned to improve.
Guess this is yet another promise broken in an effort to claw back money from us as they scramble to find ways to reduce the deficit.

How many single mothers still believe she is on their side?

Jenny Macklin says she could live on the dole, but hasn't offered to prove it.

Words are cheap - would like to see how all Labours promises will stand up to serious scrutiny

' Runner you have such hatred in your heart. '

I see Susie you don't believe in an Omniscience God but you think you can read my heart. I feel sorry for you.

World watcher,
Well the way I see it is that both parties are mumbling about having
policies that will promote growth.
What I cannot tell is whether they believe it or not.
The conventional way to promote growth is to push more money into the
economy. This is however a now redundant method which has been failing
everywhere. It just does not work anymore.
The alternative technique was austerity, but that now does not work.

We are now in an era that is totally new, at least since the early 18th
century. At that time the peoples standard of living was fairly steady
for centuries. It was not until steam power was developed and made
cheap by the ready supply of coal that the living standards started
to improve, in a patchwork way but ultimately widespread.
The addition of cheap oil to the mix started the growth patten we now
have come to accept as normal. This growth patten made credit a ready
tool to use to further push growth along.

This continued right up to the start of the 2000s when the warning
signs started to appear. These signs, high coal prices and high prices
for oil and flat lining oil production are telling us that growth is
slowing and coming to a grinding halt.
Some such as Europe are already in the bind, the US has printed money
to such an extent that they can never get enough growth to pay it off.

We are thanks only to mining incomes in a better position but what
happens when the music stops.

That is the job of our next government, do you think they are up to it ?

Turnbull is more of a liberal than Tony Abbott who would really fit in more with a Conservative Party. With the move of the ALP to the right there is really very little difference between the two major parties. Well not much that we can discern as Liberals haven't really given much up as regards policies.

Frankly both have drunk the free trade/globalisation Koolaid, both have spent too much time on middle class welfare in the hope of buying votes and petty politicking and knee jerk fear responses put a stop to some of the better policies like the mining super tax. Something that would have aided all Australians (sharing in the spoils) and still made the miners lots of money.

Turnbull would prove a strong opponent to the ALP, many of the ALP grass roots are dissilussioned with Labor and those who have not defected to the Greens might defect to a Turnbull led Coalition Government. I would still rather an ALP Government over the Coalition but that is not saying much. There are at least some hope within Labor.

The Coalition will always be a party for industry too far from the grass roots whereas Labor while much closer to industry than in the past, still considers the overall effects rather than pandering to one sector in their policy making. Better still just vote Greens.

Iron ore has come back to $140 / ton. The noalition mob have gone quiet, probably scouring the slime pits.
If we ever get some sort of policy from the opposition, which might be a hard ask. They have spent a full year being negative again, tracing the steps of the tea party.
Talking down the economy and scaremongering about the carbon tax. What a fizzer that was, not an ounce of credibility involved.
Abbott's inability to decipher written documents is irresponsible and unprofessional.
The whole opposition front bench are involved in tactics that not only show immature and divisive questions that they have completely forgotten the whole world is listening.
Gillard put Abbott straight on his downright filthy attach on the PM's father, and with some extra verse made headlines world wide, and very much appreciated by men and women of all races.
And this man is vying for the number one ticket holder in Australia.
Abbott and his mate CN, would wreck this nation in no time.
He can not bring himself to admit we are in a good position. as much of the world is in depression for four years now, and no signs of recovery.
No one is a future teller, but our status is solid and steady as she goes is a good plan.
Our unemployed is steady, along with incomes, hopefully we can remain in a strong position for 2013.

Bazz,

Australia has for the most part had it so good that many people gave scant regard to politics. As long as all was well in their lives they let the pollies 'do their thing' unchallenged.

As you say, we are now in an unprecented era as far as recent history goes, with much of the world in a state of financial flux. Our fortunes now rely too heavily on the mining industry and the well-being [or not] of the international currencies.

Now, more than we ever have done, we need wiser heads in government than we have at present. Labour has proved they are not fit to govern responsibly, and the unelected [by the people] head of this government is akin to a child attempting to play with the adults on the world stage.

First, despite all indicators that we need a change of government,we have to rely on the majority of voters agreeing when voting time arrives, and the public have notoriously short memoreies..

Second, a change of government is a crap shoot. Will they do better? It's anyone's guess, but surely they couldn't do worse?

I can only speak from experience, but for myself, business has always been good when Libs have been in office, and not so good when Labour has held sway. For me it is the party as a whole when I vote, and have to trust that they have chosen who they think is the best person to lead.

Our deficit accrued under Labour should offer enough persuasion to change even the hard left to consider voting differently this time around.

Bazz,

Do you think we should pay more attention to developing our resources other than mining? Is enough help given to those who are attempting to promote different industries?

What brought this to mind is how much fish and other seafood we import, a lot of which is farmed in Asia. Isn't it ludicrous that we are completely surrounded by this vast ocean, yet import much of this commodity? If farmed fish is the only way to keep prices at an affordable level, we sure have enough areas within our own country to make this a much larger scale operation.

How many good inventions do we ignore? I remember the orbital engine could not gain support from the then ruling Labour government, yet was welcomed with open arms in the U.S. These are just a couple of the many examples which exist. You can probably think of many more.

Developing fully our own alternatives to mining, and limiting foreign investment to a level where we always retain a majority interest would encourage innovation - if there was confidence that the government would support - not hinder this.

Whoops, gone off on a bit of a tangent here. Maybe my post would be more suitable on the My Country thread?

World watcher, my concern is that both parties will go ahead as though
it is business as usual. They do not seem to reading the signals and
are deliberately ignoring reports from their own departments.

If it goes on like this for another few years they will be totally
unprepared, and worse the public will be unable to accept that the
situation is permanent.

We could end up with what happens in such circumstances elsewhere with
a government of national unity. ie a government with all parties
represented. This is what happens when governments become overwhelmed
by circumstances beyond their control, such as a total financial
collapse with a collapse of the food production chain.

To avoid such situations requires planning and education of the public
but first the government has to act on the reports it receives from
its own and other sources.
Our governments are not on their own in their attitude, the US Dept
of Energy in 2005 received a report it commissioned from energy
consultants, known as the Hirsch report and promptly hid it away until
it was hacked out by high school kids.
It made similar findings, only more specific than the BITRA report
that our government hid away, but was found first by a French journalist.

It is the effort to hide these reports and to not examine the
situation that is the real problem.
After all surely that is why we pay them !

579,

You say we are in a good position. If that is true, why has the housing market produced yet another drop in prices? This has always been one of the indicators of a healthy economy, yet with such low interest rates available now, there is still a continuuing fall in house prices. What should we conclude from this?

Our unemployment rate is steady you say. Are you reading accurate figures on this, or the fudged ones? Can you give us the latest unemployment figures for our youth in the 15 -25 years old age brackets?

Do you remember when people were affluent enough to take early retirement and become self-funded retirees? They still contributed to our economy with their investments.

If we are still doing so well, why has the retirement age now been increased again?

As for the carbon tax, I for one have noticed an increased demand on my disposable income since it was introduced, and would assume I am not alone. You're right, my income hasn't increased. As you pointed out - it is steady, so why do I see proof in my bank statements that I am spending more? It isn't my lifestyle which has changed, just my bank balance is now lower. Again, why do you think this is the case?

I am not a dyed in the wool liberal, but in fairness to both political sides have assessed the inescapable fact that I am now worse off financially than I was when Libs were in office.

Even you cannot deny that our surplus has turned into an enormous deficit. Again, if all is well, why did our surplus change into this deficit? Could it possibly be irreresponsible spending by the government you so vigorously defend?

I accept you feel loyalty to the present government, but before you hurl invective, give some rational reasons for your loyalty.

I am willing to listen to any serious rational answers you put forward to my questions, but will accept only logic.

A drop in prices, is good for housing market.
Unemployment is steady without proviso’s
Days of early retirement are over, there is just to many elder folk out there.
The retirement age will increase as numbers of elder people increase.
Where is the link of carbon tax and increases of goods and services.
Your bank account figures is a matter for you to stabilise
You are one eyed, much of the world is in depression, we have not been totally insulated.
A deficit can- not be assured until mid year.
My elegance is for policy, not negativity and disgraceful tea party tactics.
You are not prepared to listen, and will not accept logic.

Worldwatcher, I did not see your 11:09 post before I replied.
I do not think anyone, except politicians, could view the import of
food to be other than madness.
However as energy becomes more expensive the imported food will become
less competitive with local production.

A lot of the worries we now have about the export of jobs and the
import of finished products will reduce.
At present "western" countries have cut back their consumption of oil
in its various forms and this has allowed China & India to continue
their growth cycles, although it seems that China's GDP has fallen to
about 5%. The official rate is higher but the data is said to be managed.
At present developing countries can afford to pay more for energy
than the "west", but there is a limit to how much we can cut back
without severe damage to our economies. This cutback is also holding
down oil prices which is making the shale operations in the US marginal.

Together with our oil production falling at about 4% to 6% a year
and the closing of our refineries, except West Aus, we will be in a
rather precarious position if China and India keep increasing their demand.
If the market tightens up, we may have no supply here in the eastern
states at all. At least when our refineries were operating we had our
own 40% production.
We will be bidding against the big boys, think they will consider us ?

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the Libs do not really want to win the next election . They do not want to inherit the mess that we are currently in. That is why they stick to Abbot. Turnbull with his business experience could turn this country around but maybe there are too many "ME's 1st" in the Liberal ranks that cannot put their country first. For holiday reading - get yourself a copy of "Silent Lies" by J.M.Iggulden. Lays out a radical agenda to get us back on track. Jack must be wringiong his hands in despair at our lack of economic expertise in Govt to-day

SomonaTas said;
J.M.Iggulden. Lays out a radical agenda to get us back on track.

Does he intend to get us back on the old track ?
Is he not aware that there is a new normal, that the old track has
petered out ?
Our economy from here on will be quite different.
It will not have credit available, and there will be no growth to repay
loans and interest.
Everything is changing right before your eyes. We are now five years
into the change and the pollies don't want to know.
I am not sure that business acumen is the most needed asset that the
next PM needs. I think what needs to be done is very obvious but it
will need political skills and an understanding of how to get the
message out to the public.
The message that I see needs to be pushed is;

Everything has changed !
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY !

We have 1.5 trillion / year. I don't see that going anywhere. Back on the old track, sounds like he has been talking to Abbott. The golden years. The past has gone, we have to live in the future.
What money gets spent on is a matter of prioritizing.
We still have growth between 2 & 2.5% That is probably quite good in the current world environment.
Julia wants to upgrade education, so the appropriate funding has to be made room for in the budget.
People with disability need an insurance, they are part of au as well.
Both these items are co-funded by the states.
I don't see borrowing or funding collapsing any time soon.

579, did you mean me !
Back on the old track, sounds like he has been talking to Abbott.
The golden years. The past has gone, we have to live in the future.

If so please pay attention, I have been drumming on ad nauseum that the
past is over and all the rules have changed.
We need to drastically reduce what we owe as fast as possible before
our gdp falls to zero. Hopefully the present higher prices of iron ore
will hold up for another year or two.

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY !

579, I'm not sure why people, myself included, bother with your posts as you are so intrenched in the labor party that you are simply blinded to the real issues facing us in the future.

While Julia may well have a few pipe dreams on the table, the reality is, we are at capacity of employment (your words not mine) so PAYG taxes are also at capacity, so raising more taxes here are not an option.

Mining is looking shaky, so the MRRT may comtinue to be a negative revenue raiser, as the costs of implementation, along with compensation payments are likely to out strip revenue. No option there.

Big business won't pay more taxes and, if they do, they will simply pass it on.

Now of cause, we must not forget that WE BORROW EVERY DAY just to TRY to continue funding our crucial services, as the budget revenue is simply failing to cut the mustard. In fact, the worlds best treasurer has also taken out an IOU from big business, TO BALANCE THE BUDGET but that's looking like another lie as well.

Apparently AT ANY COST was simply a cost he couldn't bare.

Of cause, on top of these borrowings, we also borrow to support the illegals debacle that your beloved labor party has created in all their wisdom.

In fact, about the only truth in your posts is that you will comtinue to dream.

Happy dreaming!

Bazz says the present high prices , and Butch says they look shaky. You blokes need to have a yarn and get your story straight.
Bazz you have spent to much time on u tube. You are in the diatribes of gloom.
Before our GDP drops to zero, 1.5 Trillion is not zero.
So why have the rules changed, The rules changed 5 years ago, the US market is upbeat, and is not predicting doom and gloom.
The Chinese have had a correction, and may now be stabilized. Boom and bust is not good for anyone.
So take a bex and a good lie down, the world is not going to end anytime soon. Butch you are confused with QLD and the rest of the nation.

579,
It appears you are calling into question my financial handling.

Perhaps you are unaware that I or anyone else for that matter have no control on price hikes for the utilities we all use, and the increases which were introduced immediately after the introduction of the Carbon Tax. These are beyond my ability to control!

Are you suggesting we refuse to pay these increased costs, or maybe dispense with the essential services altogether?

Yes, we can stop using water, electric, gas, telephone, and our medications. Drop insurance, have our house foreclosed for non payment of increased rates.

Of course we can stop eating any food that has had price increases too. Result? Starve.

Or we can walk 80 kilometres to work and back home on our empty stomachs. Or we can give up work altogether and become yet another dole bludger.

C'mon man - face reality! Cost of living has increased across the board, and you're still in denial!

Belly, when I hear "why not Turnbull" from Shadow Minister, I might think there is some credibility in the assertion.

Turnbull...friend to those who need no friends, enemy to those who have none.....

Worldwatcher>> C'mon man - face reality! Cost of living has increased across the board, and you're still in denial!<<

Sorry to say WW, but you got your position wrong regarding 579...he’s not in denial...he's in office No 579 in the Kremlins east wing....circa 1955.

sonofglion, I LUV it; "Enemy to those who make him and enemy, friend to those who have no friends........" Boston Blackie, LOL

I thought Arjay was the conspiracist. It seems we have Bazz and ww as well.
What evidence do you place your doom and gloom on. A shut down of society. Abbott has been in your ear spreading his brand of doom for 3 years, hasn't done any good for himself.
Turnbull is more level headed and make a far better leader and statesman than Abbott.

Abbott attacks policy but has no policy. Pledges in blood will put au in depression. Abbott and women are worlds apart, the only thing he despises more than women in power is the Labor and Green’s party’s.
Women’s issues will be forgotten about with the religious leanings of Mr Abbott, as such things as abortion , IVF, and birth control, what right does any male have to tell women what to do with their bodies.
No foresight and no idea. Is this a future leader for AU. Can you see Abbott as a statesman to be trusted with AU’s well- being, on the world stage.
I doubt anyone can doubt the strength of Gillard, to stand up to the chauvinism of male colleges. Her strength and outright resilience has been on show for three years. Abbott has only disgraced himself, many times over, and lacked any political ambitions other than his quest to dislodge a PM.
All Abbott’s attacks have came to nothing, Slipper was the target of a liberal conspiracy. Thomson could very well end in the same way. After a dozen brothels were subpoenaed and drew a blank for any hard evidence at all of Thomson’s appearance. Not to mention on one occasion he was in WA

579 said;
I thought Arjay was the conspiracist. It seems we have Bazz and ww as well.

Conspiracy ! What conspiracy ?
It is just a matter of geology. All oil fields reach a peak and then decline.
Just as did all of Australia's oil fields in 2000.
Just as the US's peak in 1970.
Just as the world's peak in 2006.

Are you saying this is a conspiracy ?

Or is this just another of your ill understood theories such as the
radiation at 3km from the tower ?
You just cannot apply your political theories to the real world.

Bazz Oil will decline, isn't that what the push for renewables is all about.
The 3 km's of emf is for real in US is what i was referring to as they do not have any real federal laws to limit output, on phone towers.
It's just another type of pollution we can do without.
I do have some political theories. I think Mr Abbott would make an excellent fireman or a bike rider.
I just can not see Abbott as a statesman, Or a man of rational thinking.
There's a difference between conservative and liberal. Abbott is not liberal. Turnbull is liberal.

Here's something that's worth a read:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3897900.html

579>> Abbott attacks policy but has no policy. Pledges in blood will put au in depression.<<

Nah sport, a government debt of $170 BILLION is the underlying issue that is bleeding us dry. We are giving away 2 teaching hospitals in interest payments alone every month….month in, month out. That is the worth of Labors failed, rorted, post grad dream policies.

579>> Abbott and women are worlds apart, the only thing he despises more than women in power is the Labor and Green’s party’s.<<

Here are some other comments about Gillard…from women.

“You’ve got a big arse, Julia, your hopeless, just get on with it.” Germaine Greer. ABC. Q&A. March 2012

“She has showcased a bare home and an empty kitchen as badges of honour and commitment to her career. Janet Albrechtsen. The Australian. July 2010”

“Kevin Rudd denounced the prime minister as a ”childless, atheist, ex-communist”.” Kate Ellis MP March 2012

As for the Greens….where are they on CSG?.....not a sound. We pay a Carbon Tax for the supposed good of the air, but they are content to see the soil ruined. They are about as green as red.

579>> Can you see Abbott as a statesman to be trusted with AU’s well- being, on the world stage.<<

What, unlike Swan and Gillard who have never balanced a budget or come close to a surplus in their lives, Abbott will probably never attend gatherings of world leaders and tell them how to run their economies. “The two bumpkins from down under” was the banner in one European rag.

TBC

579>> I doubt anyone can doubt the strength of Gillard, to stand up to the chauvinism of male colleges<<

Gillard also had the strength to say “Don’t give the pensioners a pay rise….they don’t vote for us anyway!”

579>> Her strength and outright resilience has been on show for three years.<<

Hey sport, don’t forget her other features such as genitalia resembling a mollusk, as brought to our attention by her speaker, the non misogynist Peter Oyster….sorry Slipper….a man that detests oysters.

579 >> After a dozen brothels were subpoenaed and drew a blank for any hard evidence at all of Thomson’s appearance.<<

Credit cards stolen then returned, mobile phone stolen and then returned, over and over again and Thompson was unaware for years. Maybe his wife went to the brothels and made phone calls on his mobile, then faithfully replaced it, time and time again. Some think he is a randy thieving adulterous self serving rodent.

sonofglon,

Sterling job mate....nothing like repeating Slipper's comments to grab a little leverage in debate. Repeating odium attributed to someone else, makes all the difference, eh?

Then you go on to list all the "allegations" emanating from a dodgy accuser on Thomson who is herself being investigated - happily including his wife in your tale.

Interestingly, not a word about the flawed FWA investigation - or the extremely dodgy case of Ashby that was thrown out as an abuse of court, as a collusion between Ashby, Doane and Brough for personal and political gain.

Just mentioning it, because these instances are "not" allegations. They actually happened and are official judgments.

Which brings me to the question of, if Thomson is guilty of the allegations, an it is "so obvious"...why hasn't he been charged?

Poirot, I think the Thompson affair will become a non starter because
of the statute of limitations.
There may be only a couple of minor accounts that could be prosecuted.
We now we know why the investigation was so slow and muddled.

Once that is settled 579 will then say;
"See there was nothing to it !"
"It was all Abbott's mud throwing."

If you want to hang your hat on that please go ahead.

Come on, Bazz...according to Thomson's detractors, it's all blindingly obvious.

I mean to say...there's all that "evidence".

Now I wonder why he hasn't been charged...by the police?

The statute of limitations do not apply in this case, by court order.
Thomsons signature was not personally signed, it was an electronic signature.
All 12 requests for hard evidence failed.
So where is the other half of the signed receipts.
It's getting dodgier by the day.
It's going to take months to find out what the charges are.
Yes Slipper was set up and in the hands of the fed; police.
It should be an interesting 2013,
Gillard give pensioners an all time giant rise.
A very impressive polatition is Julia. If Abbott was half a man he would recognize his failings, and step aside., before he gets pushed.

Poirot>> Sterling job mate....nothing like repeating Slipper's comments to grab a little leverage in debate. Repeating odium attributed to someone else, makes all the difference, eh?

P, I was responding to the odium of misogyny slung at Abbott. A man who supposedly hates his daughters, his wife and his PA who he spends more time with than any one male in his political life. The truth is the only way to respond to propaganda and all I said was reported and attributed in the media.

Poirot>> happily including his wife in your tale.<<

Just surmising P, and so I should after the Williamsons family HSU larceny. Who else but his wife could get their hands on those items over and over again….then replaces them without Thompson knowing.

OJ Simpson was acquitted in a criminal court but convicted in a civil claim…..Thompson is the same…guilty by the stupidity and incredulity of blaming it on a sinsister sexual boogie man, who comes and goes (no pun intended). Ask his brother in corruption Michael Williamson, in fact ask Williamsons whole family, it looks like they all stole or profited from the money stolen from the long suffering HSU rank and file.

Yes P, Thompson is a gem, a zirconium.

579,

I'm sure Julia has quite good nous for politics...for me though I think that is the reason why I find her government so offensive (save perhaps for the "minimum" effort regards AGW)....I can't see much of what I'd always imagined to be Labor values in the current party.

John Passant referred to Labor as "neo-liberal Labor" (I agree)

That would complement the non-liberal/neo-liberal Liberals.

Aren't we lucky : )

579>> Gillard give pensioners an all time giant rise.<<

Yeah sport, and a Carbon Tax.....no Carbon Tax, no pensioner ALL TIME GIANT sweetener. But will the pension go up as the Carbon Tax sends our BILLIONS to overseas banks. 579 you may be feeble but the old are not, they dispise Gillard because they have never seen a worse self serving PM in their lifetime, simple as that.

Gillard was right....pensioners don't vote for this Labor/ Green/Independant/directionless rabble.

sonofgloin,

You say, ask Williamson...don't forget to ask Kathy Jackson n'all.

579>> A very impressive polatition is Julia. If Abbott was half a man he would recognize his failings, and step aside., before he gets pushed.<<

Very impessive indeed. Gillard was Education minister then PM. We spent $20 BILLION on the BER and hundreds of millions on computers.

Last month an international scorecard for primary students had our kids as literate as the Albanians. We came last out of all the English speaking nations.....LAST.....VERY IMPRESSIVE.

Poirot>> You say, ask Williamson...don't forget to ask Kathy Jackson n'all.<<

Jackson is not my girl, the way Kristina Kerscher Keneally was Obeid's and the other Sussex Street criminals girl.

Jackson shut up until it did not suit her. But criminal allegations have not been proffered to my knowledge.

I look forward to the day Turnbull replaces Abbott.
Not because it will seal my party,s fate come election.
That hurts me.
No point in backing the wrong horse because it looks cute.
Truth out weights dreams.
I look forward because on that day.
Some contributors in this thread will be forced to confront the fact they are less than well informed, on the subject of politics.
Time wasting? certainly! but once more individual! 63% dislike Abbott.
Labors current two party preferred vote is 47 or 48%
Not all Labor voters like Turnbull.
If they did? 16% of dislikes must be Liberals.
In effect, likely that 63% is about and no more than, 40% Labor.
23% Liberal.
Your charges as is the norm are clearly the result of not understanding.
Better folk at maths than me, can give a closer count.
But no person can convince me Australia wants either leader.
A change in any party, will be catastrophic for the other.
While you individual, will not understand, my intent in this thread was not to threaten Liberals.
But to highlight the very real chance a change will result in a win in the next election.
And no change? Labors only chance is,Abbott, or keeping Gillard , a loss is assured if they do.
With some confidence I think Turnbull will lead.
And with much unhappiness think it likely Shorten [Mac the Knife]will lead Labor win support but my memory's of power brokers and Rudd will, for me, never fade from my memory
How many individual, of the 63% are uncommitted swinging voters.
Not party wants such voters more.

Belly As is i reckon we are looking at a hung parliament. The first to employ a new leader will win the race with a majority.
The danger is Gillard will increase the lead and call an election early.
Another hung parliament, would be hard to take, and disruptive.
I just hope something happens soon. 2013 should be interesting.

579,

Obviously you will continue with your personal rant against Abbott, and ignore any critiscm of Julia et al. Our great PM [ also referred to with Wayne Swan as the country bumpkins from downunder ] has with her clever? speech against Abbott, demonstrated to the rest of the world that we have at the helm an emotional female first, and a poor politician second.

As I've said previously, she is akin to a minnow swimming with whales.
She has allowed personal ambition to overide sane political decisions.
This is not a mysogynist view, but a rational assessment of a woman who is unfit to hold her position.
There have been great women in world politics, and JG has repeatedly proved to us that she will never attain anywhere near their stature.

To attempt to deflect attention from all questions she either can't or won't answer in Parliament with personal attacks is purely a ploy
used by women [God bless 'em], which is not only petty and small minded, but demonstrates my point that she puts her ego before politics. When will you leave off also personally attacking Abbott, and direct your thoughts to the larger problems facing us?

I'll try once more. The latest independent review [yesterday] has found that apart from the mining sector, the rest of our economy is flat!
Read the review yourself before telling us how good we have it under this government. Whichever way you examine them, these are facts which can't be ignored!

By he tone of your posts, one could begin to suspect that 579 is GM in disguise.

I knew you would be back Belly.

Now for the record, while you constantly remind us that many here are I'll informed, may I remind you that it was you who told me I was wrong to suggest Gillard would take Ruds job.

The only thing I was I'LL INFORMED OF was the deceitful way in which she, aided by the faceless men of the labor party, went about the job of cutting the legs from under the most popularly voted PM since Bob Halk and John Howard.

You also shot me down when I said Cambell Newman would be our next premier.

Well, if that's being I'll informed, I am guilty as charged your honor.

Now as for Turnbul, I will bet the majority who support his liberal leadership would be labor voters.

Finally, just to clear the air, I did say both current leaders were poor, however, I am not suggesting Turnbul as an alternative leader of the libs, unless of cause my only concern was for the libs to win the next election, at any cost.

Sorry, but I don't vote for what I want, I vote for what I see as the best option for the country.

In any case, whoever wins the next election will need to grow or show some balls, and kick some ass, as what is needed is some tough descisions, or who knows where we will end up.

I do find something similar rehctub, with Belly's belief in his political judgement. On this thread I got, "HASBEEN, well silly but not unexpected stuff. Your past did not give you great incite in to politics." from him.

At the time I didn't bother, but I now remind him that I predicted here, a couple of days before the event, that Turnbull was about to loose the Liberal leadership. As I recall, I was told I was a dill then too.

We do get a lot of wishful thinking advanced as predictions here, from a number of posters, all of them left. I suppose the poor dears don't have much left, other than wishful thinking.

It must be pretty dispiriting to have got two great hopes into the lodge, only to find they are both hopeless egotistical dills.

Rechtub/Hasbeen I find you both prone to hot headed not well thought out posts.
And without reserve, say time will prove me right.
Note I unlike your selves, am here shouting my disgust at some in my party.
Hate me, despise me but gentlemen test me.
Watch what unfolds this year.
Rechtub, earlier, today I think, you, in my view quite rightly, targeted 579, for his inability to see the other side.
That left me chuckling for about an hour, your description of 579, while fitting, fits you even better.
Hasbeen, mate in truth you have dropped some clangers here, little brown man was it? about an electricity meter reader I think.
Both of you, get carried away more often than me.
Abbott is supported by a minority of Australians.
It takes no courage to admit Gillard is as bad.
Rechtub agreed in the highlighted post above.
Who can say, with certainty, what percentage of swinging or undecided voters are in that 63%?
Gents it is your right to sling arrows at me, but I too have that right.
Both off you are not representative of average voters, rest assured that is true.
I fail to under stand you both, with Abbott the slim est possibility you may not win.
With Turnbull? a landslide victory is assured.
Do you not see?
First act of Turnbull can and will be, a statesman like dumping of what was to be, had to be, non core promises.
Time will test me and you.
I started the thread, individual drove me from it, am considering my future here, but am at logger heads with both right and left, feel good about that.
This election is not yet won, believe me any second Abbott may turn in to?
Himself! that would destroy his chanced, your problem is not just with me, it is with 63% of Australians.

As I said Belly, to win at any cost, but that's not what government is about, it may well suit you, but not me.

I recall your excitement when Bligh won the previous election, in which you displayed no interest in what was best for the state, as your rose colored glasses could not see beyond a failing labour government, at any cost.

You may also recal a thread I started about us Queenslanders, finally having a leader, in Cambell Newman that would give Anna a run for her money.

little I'LL INFORMED ME was spot on, again.

Now I hope I haven't offended you as I would hate to see you take your ball and run AGAIN!

Now rechtub you are forcing me to be honest.
You hold, and probably always will, this sites record for longest ever thread.
But as we all do, you have had flops, many more in your case than most.
You often target me, for saying what many others say, about you.
How man, can you speak on behalf of the whole country.
Your charge against me, in relation to Burks win, is your opinion.
And no one can produce evidence voting for, or celebrating her win, was deliberately letting the country down.
Do you understand how strange your claim is.
Look too at your companions in your threads.
I happen to think your stand on this single issue,A change of leaders not just me but many are highlighting, proves with no room for doubt, you do not understand.
Time will judge us both.
But just as you ignored your early words, at a time polls said Labor was leading, and I said that was pipe dreaming.
You ignore YOU, said Abbott is as I say.

OLO has fine contributors , better than both of us, but it too, is weighted down with those who think half this country,s voters, ALP, are in your past words, want me to link to the thread?
Unfit to breed.
Exact words? stop the wrong people from breeding.
Your insults, constant and child like,to anything ALP, puts you , by your own words/hand, in questionable country.
You over and again, intruded on a thread about welfare return [one that saw me demand first and end to waste].
With? harping constant demands for? cuts in waste.
Time will judge us both,this time next year we will know.
You as usual, will ignore if you got it wrong.
In time, as Turnbull is seen to be as I say, you will claim you always knew he would be.
Hurt your feelings?
Show me ONE single post that saw me target ALL Liberals, think mate!

Sounds like Butch is suffering from a hang over again. He says he backs the best option. How can that be so, the main contender has said nothing and done nothing, where do you get your best option from.
Abbott is a peanut and always will be, Turnbull is your only hope. Somehow it's all Australia's fault that things are in a downturn. You need to read some papers and see what is going on in the rest of the world. We are subject to world pressures, and beyond our control. we have a stable situation here for 5 years while others have been in depression. That is an impressive achievement, as recognized by world powers.
To disrupt steady as she goes at this time would be stupid. Why create unemployment when the world is in turmoil. There is a time and place for everything and now is not that time.

The enemy within is still the danger for Abbott. He has got his chief of staff to say words that he can-not bring himself to say. She will now make her self a target.
Political leaders come and go, who takes notice, it's a party decision. They vote and elect leaders.
The party has got to have substance, we don't want to end up like a default dictatorship like qld finds itself in.
Create unemployment,and strip money from education, health, disband public servants. When the masses are on their last breath. Mission accomplished. Every time lib or nat govt gets power, they wreck social well-being, to feed their agenda.
No doubt Abbott will have a program to water down health and safety, wages, and penalty rates. It's in their DNA to bring down the working class. There will be no advancement for women with a coalition driven by Abbott, other leaders yes but not Abbott.
With welfare for the higher income earners, they have an agenda of an even greater disparity between the workers and the upercrust.
Some people want Abbott with-out policy or direction, a fools paradise at the least. Until such policies are assembled and costed, no one has a clue what they would be voting for.

579 G,day, my love of and confidence in the ALP is as strong as yours.
But you make no headway in trying to look like the worst of conservative supporters.
We, you and I owe it to our party to be the little man on its shoulder, reminding them we,and our country, see the NSW past, and todays power brokers federally, are not to be hidden.
Without HSU, NSW and Rudd,s removal, this election was ours.
Rechtub? just reviewed his post history.
Put subject, comment, and time .
Once would not have said this.
But in truth the Gentleman,s self confidence is extremely badly miss placed.
And dumped the resulting list , as it would humble the bloke.
No sin not under standing.
But for one so often wrong to claim the right to insult?
In the end Turnbull ,while understanding his Worth,threatens the ALP a great deal more than Mr Nasty.
Time too is our enemy carbon capture and other things will be judged after the election.
I think both sides may get new leaders before the election.
Hoping for Combet, fearing both that I am wrong, and the knife carrying Shorten will be rewarded for? stabbing our party in the back.
Turnbull? look have fun!
It will be all of that, watching Hasbeen Rechtub and a few more tell us they always knew he would be great!
ALP must, at its base, fight for reform.

579 and other ALP supporters, you never learn, do you? You continually make the same mistake; you believe your own b*llsh*t!

579 says the Libs “Create unemployment, and strip money from education, health, disband public servants. When the masses are on their last breath. Mission accomplished. Every time lib or nat govt gets power, they wreck social well-being, to feed their agenda.”

I am going to ask you once again, what would be your response if a Liberal Gov’t

1 Raised the retirement age for the poorest female workers from 60 to 67.
2 Forced single mothers into the workforce when their youngest child turns six years of age be reducing their weekly benefits by $50 to $110.
3 Forced the sick to pay for chemotherapy treatment by pulling $50 million out of the health budget.

That is what your Rudd/Gillard Gov’t has done! Is that not social wrecking?

And why has the mad woman done these three cost-cutting policies? So that she could hand over $3 BILLION dollars to the gov’ts of poor African nations, such as that lead by Robert Mugabe! Our poor suffer so that the likes of Mugabe and the late Col. Gadhafi will have their pockets filled with our cash! How much of that aid will filter down to the poor of those countries?

Tell us a little more about the ALPs support for the UNs Agenda 21!

I am also sick and tired of the silly games you ALP supporters play, suggesting we change our leader. We do not need gratuitous advice from a party that firstly elects idiots like Rudd and Gillard and then offers us advice.

Those of you who know enough about politics know that the biggest mistake the naïve Dr John Hewson made in the 1992 election was to release ‘FightBack’.

It gave Keating about six months to lie and demolish the policies articulated by Hewson. Never again will either party announce policies and in 2000m the ALP under Beazley went to the electorate without an Immigration policy!

Geoffrey Kelley

579>>. Every time lib or nat govt gets power, they wreck social well-being, to feed their agenda<<

Another load of no facts from comrade 579. Everything you say is tainted. During the Howard years nearly all the States were Labor fiefdoms. All of those states had record incomes….they were prosperous years. Every Labor state handed a monumental deficit to the incoming Coalition…….Where did the money go? Not on infrastructure and hospitals, not on education, but consultants, lobbyists, and an expanded public service, not to mention relatives and acolytes..

Comrade I would not crow about the fiscal finesse of Labor. Last month SA’s Labor government announced a deficit in 2013 that will be the largest in the state’s history. THE LARGEST IN HISTORY….JUST LIKE SWANS COMMONWEALTH DEBT….THE LARGEST IN HISTORY.

Your mob spent 20 BILLION on the education revolution a few years ago and our kids are the LEAST literate in the English speaking world.

You have the ineptitude to throw in a bleat about hospitals, when Gillard sends one BILLION overseas every month in interest payments.

579 old fruit, in my youth, long before OLO, the Sydney Domain on a Sunday afternoon was the place to swap political and social views mixed with vile and spittle. Those soap box debates were fiery. Why I tell you this is to point out that those orators were witty wordsmiths who could defend their position with substantial arguments and take on all comers.

You Comrade are an ideologue and you only make statements. You have no answer in any response, just another statement. Thank you for not burdening me directly with the regurgitated spin that you use for others….much appreciated mate….but I will continue to state facts pertaining to any spinny deceits you put forward.

I agree with Geoff.

Well Geoff,

While all you say is right on the button, don't hold your breath waiting for answers from 579. Statements yes - he has plenty of those up his sleeve.

He sounds like JG. If you can't answer the questions, attack on all fronts, and ignore the questions.

His attempt at divisiveness is so transparent. Sorry 579, it's like water running off a duck's back.

You can't defend the indefensible.

Geoff,

Beazley. As I recall, that's the bloke who contracted to buy the already obsolete Collins submarine wasn't it? Which BTW, are still having problems.

His reward? He's our ambassador to the U.S. Wonder what else they can con him into suggesting we buy from them?

And wasn't there some problem with him being conned into buying firearms from the bloke who ended up on the run?

Says a lot for the caliber of the labour chosen doesn't it?

Worldwatcher and sonofgloin,

I agree with you both. The ALP supporters are flaky. They are like the cook's cat...... all piss and wind. They stand for nothing, just like their political leaders. They vent their spleen yelling absolute b*llsh*t and pretend it is social comment! Twice I have posted these three appalling policies and not ONE ALP supporter has had the guts to defend the party :-

I give up even talking to them. They are like children slinging invective but not sure what the topic is all about.

Geoffrey Kelley, Metung

Nice one Belly.

I assume you meant Bligh...Your charge against me, in relation to Burks win, is your opinion

If you recall, you were so over joyed after her win, that was what I referred to.

As for your other comments,

1. My comment about breeding was in reference to the ridiculous baby bonus, which favors those who don't work and was abused so much that it was changed.

by the way, it was a Howard policy, one of his worst ever in fact. So I can't and do not blame labor for that, but nice try anyway.

2. Welfare waste.
My beef about welfare has, and always will be about the ease of which it is able to be wasted, on the likes of gambling, grog and cigs. Now if I'm out of order there, then I pled guilty as charged.

After all said and done, my main concerns are for the children who miss out, and the tax payers dollars that are being wasted, as they ( the tax payers) deserve the comfort in knowing their taxes are not being wasted.

After all, EVERY WELFARE DOLLAR WASTED MEANS SOMEONE GOES WITHOUT, mainly children.

Simply restricting what can be purchase with it will all but eliminate this waste, but no, you would rather just huff and puff about it and do nothing. Must be a labor thing.

Either that or you go off and accuse me of wanting food stamps brought back. Another lie.

Just remember, the dole is just $35 per day and a pack of smokes is about $25, or just over 65% of that. And you seem happy to support that, as if it's their given right to waste it.

Now I have been wrong at times and I am always then first to admit to it, unlike yourself, who simply throws a bit of mud, as you take your bat and ball and run.

Comtinued.

Continued
Now back to Turnbul.

While I Still regard him as a strong leader, I am not convinced he would make a good leader for the libs, however, if he jumped ship to your lot, you would romp it in.

But the difference between us belly, is that for me, it's not about winning at any cost

So you can take offense to that if you wish, you can even pick up stumps and play that old, it's not fair crap that we are quite honestly getting a tad sick of.

Your call, but I will always welcome you back mate.

As for 579, I have this to say.
.............
Full stop!

What a pack of idiotic ranters. A lot to say but it does not add up to nothing, every single piece of dribble is in the past tense.
We have a double poster here, GC & WW are to of the same.
Butch is on one of his, stimulants again.
When will someone say something that is relevant to the wellbeing of Australian society.
We have never been better off, look around you we are doing fine, except qld.
The golden years have passed and will not return no matter how much you try to put spin on it. Just like Abbott living in the past.
This is 2013 so get a grip of yourself and face reality. This year we vote and elect our preferred govt; for the next 4 years. The past will not help you. What we need is policy and we have a coalition that is a policy free zone, and a leader that is newt and can't read.
They have but one hope, and that is to put Turnbull in the chair or else they will be defeated at the hands of a stronger and more resilient opponent.
This govt; has shown extreme courage in the face of the tea party antics, that have taken it on themselves to discredit a sitting govt; and use the judicial system to further their own agenda.

Here, in responses to this thread, are commentators who in truth are lost beyond the depth of their under standing.
As the results of any federal election are in, counted ,tallied.
The two party preferred count is only rarely more than 2% between winer and lost.
This time that is the likely out come.
SO 47/48/in every hundred Australians are as described here?
But in fact the team that fails to win the election, often wins the popular vote.
Trying hard not to become as heated as SOME here, the idea Labor voters are lessor beings, or trying to urge Liberals to swap a Donkey for a Horse is quite descriptive of SOME.
63%
Now get the boots of, GK get some one to count for you.
63 in every hundred say they dislike Abbott.
Every chance exists most if not half are Liberals,
If you insist on a different number it wins my point.
Now in the end, after this election, at least 47 in every hundred Australians, will vote Labor.
Claims that we the 47 are lessor beings are?
SOME here understand
NO take that back about to insult but try not to.
Here in print ample evidence exists SOME do it to them selves, in print.
579 again I try, you with your blind support feed the other side, and in the end target your self.
Labor while far better than these Tea Party types needs to look at its troubles, before defeat.
All good men coming to the aid of the party should not sweep our troubles under the carpet.
If you wish to serve Labor in this year you must put it all on the carpet and demand to know why?
We unlike others must demand better and face truth, we are not going to win by hiding truth

2013 will sort the one with political gumption from the one with political rhetoric, which adds up to policy, isn’t policy what our nation votes on. With out policy we have an empty tank, and no one in their right mind will vote for a party without policy and properly costed.
So what do we have at the moment, a sitting govt; that has laid out a policy for the future of this nation . For a start we have a policy of overhauling the education system , and another of a disability insurance scheam .
Two of the biggest and most important issues facing au to day. A plan to lay out these policies is under way , and costings will be provisioned in the budget.
We have an opposition that has shown contempt for some items legislated , with pledges in blood to scrap these changes , for what reason has never been given, we can only presume it was a knee jerk reaction to smirk at a sitting govt;
This govt has shown some faults, but haven’t they all. No govt will have 100% support from the masses. A hung parliament was always going to be a big challenge and we have pulled through without support from the coalition, who have apparently vowed not to talk politics.
A year of absolute gutter politics has just concluded, with accusations, kangaroo courts, and false claims put to the judicial system. We have had an opposition in desperation, and outright bully tactics invented by overseas politicians to further their own agenda.
cont:-

That breakdown in voters is what you would expect Belly. Apart from a few, like you, who can blame their upbringing & history, voting choice depends on intelligence.

By definition 50% of the population are below average intelligence. Some belligerent twits like 579 are way below, others only a little. The Labor party specialises in fooling this less intelligent segment of the population, & with years of practice, does it well. Those it can't con, it will try to buy.

There is of course a bit of the "birds of a feather" going on. Swanny is obviously going to attract those of rather low intelligence, & Gillard those with a vindictive nasty streak.

Hence we get a split somewhere around average. You only have to analyse the political leanings of the cereal ranters on here to see this obvious truth.

Perhaps the most interesting thing you'll find is that the most one eyed are regularly complaining that those on the other side wont take part in a sensible debate.

When I first came on here, I had no political leanings. I was as likely to vote one way as the other. After some years I find I have developed a leaning to the right, due to the ratbagery of many of the left supporters.

This is where Turnbull comes in. His natural tendencies towards being a conman put him more comfortably in the left basket. 579 is welcome to him.

Sorry hasbeen your posts are well, not helping your image.
Todays are laced with class hate and dribble.
Not even you can believe that.
How offensive can we be here in OLO.
You surely sail close to the wind.
By inferring every Labor voter is a bit short of a quid.
Has it struck you?
You at the head of just a few, every day put your manners your IQ and understanding under the microscope.
I in the sure knowledge time will prove me right put this to you.
Hopefully in terms you understand, writing slowly old fella.
I started this thread CONVINCED Labor can not win this election.
Armed with the understanding, first hand, the more Liberal Liberals, in particular the rich Sydney North Shore ones, are bitter about?
Abbott,s leadership.
They want Turnbull.
In my view, Labor has two chances of surviving this election.
Both extremely unlikely.
Change its leader now, and hope.
Abbott slipping up.
You clearly are unable to count.
But 63%
Let me tell you this.
IF your party knew just 5% of those who dislike Abbott came from swinging voters Nasty man would go, in days.
Hope you understood some of that .
Smile bloke,go out and look at your day lilleys, mine are better than yours.
Well no0 not really drought still choking me.
PPS my weekend wanderings at markets has bought about strange friendships.
Proudly wearing a union/ALP shirt I was rudely accosted by a woman stall holder.
We are good friends she HATES THE ALP but heads a branch not saying what one, assured me Liberals are begging for Turnbull even through channels in the party.
Do not eat her pickles, deadly stuff.

All tactics have spectacularly failed to date, and there is a shift underway to stabilize the sitting govt; and get on with day to day supervision of the nations economy.
The world has had five years of turmoil now, but AU remains in a stable situation , with world pressures against us at every turn, the sitting govt; has shown great courage in preserving our nations interests , and keeping our workers employed to the best we can.
Boat people have been an issue for some that , disregard this nation was built on boat people. But somehow those people are now pure breeds, and newcomers are mongrels. The govt put up a plan that was crucial to need coalition backing to pass senate, this was denied and a plan that made cense went begging.
The alternate was a tried system some years earlier which had limited success, but since then more wars and millions of people around the world are on the move. Australia gets a small fraction of those displaced people arriving by boat. The previously tried system was again employed ,but as is the case, the goal posts have moved, and success is not coming.
The coalition says it will turn boats around, etc; it seems as though anything that comes to Mr Abbotts head is said without thought.
The coalition at the moment have their problems, as yet we see no policy, we see no politics, all we see is a political party , intent on , returning to a past era that somehow is looked upon as the golden years, all very well if we could turn back time , disregarding the work choices, and several other adverse policies. The fact is it is impossible to turn back time , we don’t have the leader of the day for a start. We have Abbott, what a character, shoots from the hip, continually puts his foot in his mouth, reluctant to read documents, policy free, and has no idea.

.....All tactics have spectacularly failed to date, and there is a shift underway to stabilize the sitting govt; and get on with day to day supervision of the nations economy.

And it's only taken over two years and billions of dollars,most of which has been borrowed and wasted.

But I gues this statement means you do realize just how poorly this government has been running the country, as apart from the barrage from those on the other side, we have also had a PM who has been sleeping with one eye open, fearing for, or fighting to retain her job.

Nice one 579..

Butch old boy, what are you on about now. Two years and billions of dollars.
How about explaining what you mean so we can help you out with some explanations. You leave abstract comments, which are hard to follow.

579>> All tactics have spectacularly failed to date, and there is a shift underway to stabilize the sitting govt; and get on with day to day supervision of the nations economy.
The world has had five years of turmoil now, but AU remains in a stable situation , with world pressures against us at every turn, the sitting govt; has shown great courage in preserving our nations interests , and keeping our workers employed to the best we can.<<

579, are you getting this from a book?...shift underway….stabilize the sitting government….supervision of the nation’s economy…five years of turmoil…...world pressures against us…..keeping our workers employed……..

Howard handed Kev a $20 BILLION surplus in December 2007. Lehman Bros collapsed in September 2008.

Kev had blown that $20 BILLION at that point, in eight short months, he then borrowed for the stimulus packages that we certainly had no need for.

579 I will put the GFC in a nutshell for you……, you obviously need a factual explanation.

The Northern hemisphere loaned money to a vast majority of people with no collateral and no real means of paying it back. The bursting of the U.S. housing bubble, which peaked in 2006, caused the values of securities tied to U.S. real estate pricing to plummet, and the markets plummeted from there. Are you following?

Up north, banks failed and governments had to financially bail them out.

In Australia no banks failed because we did not do subprime loans, less than 1% of Australian mortgages were subprime. The only thing that Kev had to do was guarantee the savings of the plebs, which he did, and our banks never had to take a cent in government funding, so how were we doing it tough? Have a peek at our GDP for 2007 to 2010…..not even a glitch….we had the mines.

The GFC was perfect for Labor, they could borrow and mismanage at will, and it was always the GFC boogie mans fault.

Sorry to have left you behind 579, I will try to explain.

You said, a shift is under way to stabilize the sitting government, which, by definition means it has been unstable.

In fact, it's been unstable ever since K Rudd was chopped at the knees, although given enough time I have no doubt he would have achieved the same disgraceful train wreck Julia has resided over.

And don't forget, the illegals debacle is Kevs baby.

Something back to what you said, it just shows that our economy has been on auto pilot a d the only real achievement labor have achieved is a record of failed attempts and massive debt, the likes we have never seen before.

I just hope we never get into what you consider as ' poor shape'.

Have you ever been in conversation with a stranger then realized you are in over your head.
I have, was talking to a University Professor, he picked the subject I followed.
Some times well behind.
I stopped him, told him I was wrapped in his words but knew about a tenth of one percent of what he knew.
He continued, at my lever and we parted as friends.
Still are, he a Liberal me a Labor lefty smart alec.
No not really.
His says openly real change comes via Labor.
The clean up comes from LIBERALS.
I like to think middle Australia thinks like that.
post Gillard, after Abbott, we will be.

If there was a question there i would answer it. Butch & sog;. The coalition started with Malcolm Turnbull as leader , in a spill he was defeated by one vote.
Tony Abbott was the new leader, he made the statement to be in the lodge by the end of 2010.
All attempts at dislodging a sitting govt; has failed spectactually.
Legislation to stem the flow of asylum seekers was blocked in the senate by the coalition. This was in the agenda to destabilize the sitting govt;.
Continually talking down a growing economy, and Carbon tax scaremongering. Any thing from power bills doubling to the price of milk has been blamed on the carbon tax.
So much time and effort was put into this agenda that they have not bothered to formulate policy.
2013 is the year of election , no one wants to see another hung parliament. Although it has not effected the workings of the senate.
Only one piece of legislature , which needed the vote of the coalition to succeed did not gain approval. That was called the Malaysia solution.
Mr Abbots approval rating among women is abysmal. Another achievement by blunder, is Mr Abbott’s ability to shoot from the hip, and put his foot in his mouth at crutial times.
Wether they go to the polls with Abbott as leader or not remains to be seen.

It has if nothing else, been an amusing thread.
Some of those claiming every Labor voter is ,well read the posts here and through out this forum, glass houses gents!
63% we are told are? Labor trouble makers, is old age contributing to such inability to count/comprehend?
The Humble pie will big as big as the Opera house!
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/records-will-keep-tumbling-with-blistering-heatwaves-here-to-stay-20130108-2cetq.html
This link, it is the very heart of why Abbott is in danger.
Even if, and it is not true, Climate Change is a fraud.
A new pre election leader can wrap it up for Liberals.
He/She/Turnbull in fact, can dump all unwanted or not popular, things Abbott has put up.
As many conservatives thought work choices was ok the electorate did not.
And like it or not, read the link, increasing reports have very nearly won this issue for the believers in a need for action.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/us-posts-year-of-record-high-temperatures-20130109-2cfcp.html
Posted here, and not in the existing climate change thread.
For this reason, much of the junk comments about the ALP are untrue.
And much the ALP should beheld accountable for is ignored.
I am more than sorry my party is not going to be returned.
But convinced if Abbott leads we can win.
Trying to push our own views over the average viewsv= of the electorate is a waste.
More like a group of city siders, and I have seen it, trying to heard cattle on foot,and starting the cattle running, who here can out run beef cattle.
So Abbott is looking right now,see the evidence in him trying to get woman on side, over his shoulder.
Turnbull is smiling more these days.
Gillard, she too must be a little concerned.
She has this on her side, few men want her to stay.
But the knife men want her, not them, to be blamed for our current state.
They want her job, after she is flogged,and then to take her place.
Not enough guts exists in the power brokers to do what I think Liberals will do.
Or am I wrong in that?
If Liberals work out easier to get rid of Tony than build bridges towards females we ALP, may find our guts.

Rumblings going on about individual work contracts, has risen its head again. That would suite the likes of some dodgy business. We have no need for American style working practices here.
It's something Abbott would rather not say anything about, but one of the libs want to get it out there. Not surprising, it was always going to be part of their plan. Anything that suppresses the worker is all good. And at the same time restrict unionism.
Would Turnbull be part of that if he was leader

You are definitely on something, 579. Sorry, onto something. Anyhow you are right to imply that adainst Labor measures Turnbull might be too decent, too 'soft'.

But fair go buddy, the LNP doesn't have the Hard Grrls of Labor. This is how tough Grrls behave and take note Mr Turnbull, soft caring white men are passe, positive affirmation targets all, political correctness say so,

<Families Minister Jenny Macklin angered welfare groups earlier this week by claiming she could live on Newstart payments of $246 a week - or about $35 a day - while defending cuts to single parents' benefits.

When faced with the same question on Saturday, Ms Gillard didn't directly respond to whether she could live on $35 a day.

"Of course it would be incredibly tough to be out of work and to be trying to work your way through on a Newstart payment ... the thing you would want most is a job," Ms Gillard told ABC News 24.

Ms Gillard said she had not spoken to Ms Macklin about her comments, which have angered single mothers around Australia.

"No, I haven't. Jenny Macklin is a fantastic minister doing an amazing job," she said>

Ms Macklin and Ms Gillard would blow $35 on a cafe latte (if they had to pay for it and not the taxpayer).

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/greens-bid-to-raise-newstart-allowance/story-e6frfku9-1226548024672

579 I despair!
You sound no different than say on the beach, or any of a dozen more conservatives here.
Labor has its warts.
Put beside SOME commentators here they are minor.
But Labor should expose its faults, not hide them.
Even mates, as Banjo is, seem some what demented in anti Turnbull posts.
How will they retreat, after he unseats the mad monk?
It will not be Labors handy work, but his peers.
And supporting Gillard?
Come bloke the only way I would support her is if she was drowning, and had my wallet in her pocket.

"no different than say on the beach, or any of a dozen more conservatives here"

A sit down and a glass of cold water for Belly. New glasses and a gentle reminder that many people are not rusted on to a political party or ideology.

Of course to the few signed up and sworn soldiers of ideological purity everyone, simply everyone who expresses a different point of view is by definition one of the hated 'other' side.

"It's them or us", eh Belly?

Why not Turnbull?

Good question Belly.

This is why we should be giving big Mal the big flick:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=14546#250928

on the beach, sorry but as you judge me, I reserve the right to judge you.
Old Aussie tradition.
We call it fair go mate.
You are not alone in seeking untruths to throw at Labor.
Just however reconsider your rant, in answering my charges after looking at about a thousand posts in ten threads, at least, After you review my post history here flogging Labor, as a member.
I did not my mate Ludwig follow your link.
I can tell you this, save face now, back of on the Turnbull is a Labor plant thing.
His wealth is not stopping him he will lead and gut busting laugh creating, it will be me trying to pull him down and his detractors telling me they always knew he was brilliant.

Suppose you coached a kids footy team, it was out in front and a win in the grand final looked clear.
Captain was the best player, but hogged the ball.
He by not passing cost the team trys every game.
Always scored 2 trys.
But gave two away by poor defense.
Rest of team?
Unhappy ,you knew two good players may leave and that you had a replacement.
Crowd loved him his difference was perfect.
Ludwig mate save face, do not join the caravan of bias and unknowing.
Turnbull will break my heart but hewill lead your party and this country.
US ALP FILTH TOO.
Proud of that folks, the sheer bigotry against half this country?
Never knew Queensland was such a big place!

There is one other which would bring the coalition to the fore and that is MR Turnbull, a very respected politician, and beaten by one vote at a coalition revolt. The winning vote for Mr Abbott came from a man who was later politically raped, and used as a pawn in a deceitful act to destabilise a sitting govt; Mr Abbott does not enjoy the respect of the masses, only a few diehards that would vote for a dog on a chain, rather than vote for an opposing party .
Mr Abbott has hid supporters within govt; who say he is a kind , and gentle man, who loves his wife and daughters. To find this sort of compassion outside of parliament is thin on the ground. Women’s issues will come to the front , as abortion, fertility, and contraception are the most important issues for AU women. In the past he has stood by his religious teachings and condemned all of these issues . How will they smooth the lumps to get women on side. Could be a tough ask.
Turnbull on the other hand is lurking in the background , and a proven woman’s man and very well liked by 50% of coalition parliamentarians. He is by far the woman’s choice.
2013 will be an interesting year, to say the least. Will we get the policy break through, the worm, all those important indicators, that show the will of the masses. A sitting govt; with a rails run, and an opposition which has yet to show ambition other than playing in slime. But can change riders at any time . Who will be AU’s next victor in the political stakes.

579>> Turnbull, very well liked by 50% of coalition parliamentarians<<

Not to mention 100% of Labor parliamentarians.......lol

SOG Gday ever enter your mind your views may be wrong?
Thought not.
Mine are often so, my secrete reason for starting this thread, SO I AM TOLD!
Was to undermine Liberals, sneaky bloke am I not?
Getting those polls rigged 63%, how did I do that?
Labors primary hovers around 36, Two party preferred 48, at worst.
Now lets me get me crimson boots of, need every toe.
Greens, every one of the little charmers want Turnbull!mm.
Labor every poor lost sole wants Turnbull?
Lets see put the left boot back on, that them commo blokes so not using it, 12 for greens 36 for Labor is!
Bleeding 48!
Told you them Labor blokes is shifty.
15 in every hundred must be Labor voters hiding in the Liberals.
AH gee hope not!
Turnbull will not be afraid of some of his detractors, if they vote like they think, then by mistake are as likely to vote green as anything.

As a nation we have come through 5 years of world turmoil unscathed.
AU has low unemployment, and the forcast is for this to continue.
We have low inflation, and low interest rates.
Investment in our nation is gigantic and ongoing.
Labor has policy, and it has kept us from the ravaged that have overtaken much of the world.
2012 completed 23 years of consecutive growth.
All contributed to the strength and management of a Gillard and Swan team, which is recognized by world leaders
That would even be a tough ask for Turnbull to compete with.

China, the Aussie electorate, which I believe I knew six years ago, is a mystery to me these days.

Before I came to OLO, I spent my time on philosophy forums so the arguments were unpinned opinions. Coming here I found that facts are the currency....so I try to stick with them.

About wrong….I have been wrong and I have been right, so my opinions are a six to four bet in bookie terms.

So china when it comes to disecting the electorate and making a value judgement on the way the wind is blowing, I haven't got a clue....but I won't admit to that.....Paul.

579>> We have low inflation, and low interest rates.

Interest rates in the northern hemisphere are lower than ours, so ours are nothing to crow about.

>> Labor has policy, and it has kept us from the ravaged that have overtaken much of the world.<<

579, show me the GDP downturn that Labor reacted to and fixed….it never happened.

>> All contributed to the strength and management of a Gillard and Swan team, which is recognized by world leaders<<

Other than Blair and Obama who embraced the spend our way out of trouble policy, which world leaders complimented Swan on turning a $20 BILLION surplus into a $180 Billion debt…..who?....besides the thieving scheming bankers.

579 in your posts and inside you live great Labor traditions.
You must squirm at my every post.
I understand that, but we live in a time Labor and its fellow travelers need to address both needed change,and our internal problems.
Some recent events, not just for me, but my ex members who unlike you and I are not welded on Labor,has every truth, every lie,held at our party's throats like the sharpest of knives.
By now, if you have learned nothing else here, you will know the worst of our detractors, are not the average .
You are preaching to folk who do not want to hear, or even know,if it is true.
Not much, maybe one and a half percentage points, will separate us come election.
We, both my party and my movement, need to see very real acceptance of the very real brick walls, keeping us damned by many, Rudd,s removal, power brokers apparent ownership of the party.
And union filth HSU not mate the only truth, tragic truth, to emerge from UNIONS at sometime.
Remember we came to power via Kevin Rudd, with a reputation to confront.
That we could not be trusted with the economy.
Such is the current, truly held views of far more than we wish, Gillard is not to be trusted, that unions hid the HSU trash, we face even more in our path .
We must confront our wrongs, now before it is tool late, not standing in the wreckage of our party the day after the election.
In your battles with the TORYS HERE, REMEMBER THIS, BOTH YOU AND I NEVER BRANDED ALL LIBERALS FOOLS as they do us, showing a lack of understanding that is breathless.

Yes it had run its course.
But the poll results need airing.
See they are descriptive of what I said here.
Some , looking at those polls will see Labor has a chance.
Let me say, hopefully without the insulting reply s, I want and wish for a Labor Victory.
But reality has its hands around my throat.
Lets see what IMO those polls say.
Both leaders are unloved, by most Australians.
Women dislike Abbott
Men Gillard.
Both alternative leaders raised their profiles during the Christmas break.
Turnbull seemed to stall his mid stream, maybe he does not need to? or maybe the numbers are not there, yet.
Rudd is full on.
IF one side changes leaders?
And the other does not?
That side wins.
Get ready, the Baby kissing and two brand new leaders ,still Gillard and Abbott, the unloved twins,but in a form all brushed and polished for the long campaign folk we never saw before.
Both sides may be lead by others by election.
OR we must confront two disliked folk trying to convert us to their camps by, what an unfortunate fact.

Can you believe this, Abbott wants to talk economics, 4 years and nothing but crap and now he wants to talk about the welfare of AU.
Hard to believe that it can happen, no i will not believe it.
Foot in mouth syndrome will take centre stage, as usual.
This bloke has been mute for four years and now says he wants to say something. Unbelievable, not fair dinkum. It can not happen. I for one will not believe it until i hear it.

579 in fact Abbott even by his own words, is not interested in the subject.
It however presents ample opportunity to frighten the chooks.
His popularity was built on that.
Scare campaigns.
Enough fall for it for a time, but his chook shed is falling down.
Global Warming and carbon tax are his mortal enemy's.
As soon as, very soon, polls show real concerns about Global warming, Abbott will be dumped.
Turnbull, can freely dump any policy he made, that is not supported including GW.
This ensures, in the name of good politics, Abbott goes Turnbull returns.
PS if Rudd is not put back in his job he will leave federal Parliament before the election at it is more likely

I reckon you are right, he would not know what economics was. Abbott's sole purpose was to force an election by the end of 2010.
Two years later he is lost, he doesn't know what to do next.
Turnbull is their only hope, if they are fair dinkum.
The carbon tax was an enormous fizzer, i believe that was the end for Abbott.
Can you imagine Abbott and the worm, when he doesn't have someone writing the answers for him.
Not even a real liberal. Hard to understand how they thought Abbott could be a statesman, and look after our interests.
It is incredible how strong Gillard is.
I see Abbott as a weakling, certainly not PM material.
Keating called him a political illiterate, i Reckon he was right.
Certainly not in favor with women, a powerful force with issues to protect.
Rudd may be looking for the UN position, for two years

http://www.news.com.au/national/federal-mp-peter-shack-convicted-of-100000-fraud/story-fndo4e3y-1226557084455
579 the link is to show Liberals have rats too.
I think, honestly, as many as we have.
But having said that we need to talk.
An election is many things.
It is not every voter giving balanced and well, thought out opinins.
Some walk in to the booth, not even having bothered to read the how to vote, with great passion, and silliness, vote informal, while thinking they support one or the other.
Gillard is not what you think.
She will pull off a miricule if she wins, only against Abbott is that possible.
Both sides of politics know, a very big slice of the electorate is not changing its mind, made up long ago.
Men, in big numbers, do not want Gillard.
Just as Turnbull will bring back passion and commitment to his side, other than Gillard, if well chosen can too.
For Labor.

Belly It's hard to say if Abbott will see an election or not.
I am pretty sure Gillard will be there, can't see Rudd making a play, could be wrong. Either way it's the party, what it is all about.
Abbott would be a vicious man, and not to be trusted. Agendas behind agendas. Like Newman a radical. And now he wants the people to tell him what to do next. The people of QLD never got what they thought they were getting.
Parliament back in a couple of weeks, see if the mood has changed or it's the same crap being thrown around. Hasn't done Abbott any good. People have had enough of his tactics, time to come clean if he can, and play politics.

579!
Mate yes!
It is the party, the dreams, wishes , the things our followers want.
The very core of our existence is to be the party of fair go mate.
The one that did as we did put pensions up.
Say sorry, to both the stolen generation and victims , SOME OF WHOM are white, that dreadful era was the same that took poor whites from parents.
And saw kids in care raped.
For me and you it is the party.
MATE not for everyone.
We are running just behind, in a two horse race, both horses are lame
KNOW my friend we will be flogged for decades over our mess, not policy's, Torys will adopt most.
Swinging voters will flock to Turnbull.
And our chance die.
Hope Abbott survives but face the truth, we have to stop burying our faults .
You view of Gillard is with rose colored glases, she has damaged our party.

Belly and 579, over three weeks ago I posted a message that contained the following:

"There is an old Australian saying that I love. I love it because it is always true. Stated simply, you should never believe your own b*llsh*t! And I am gratified that Lexi and the leftwing Fairfax press and all the Labor supporters who repeat the claim, “"I have never voted Liberal in my life but I could cope with Turnbull as our PM." are guilty of this silly and un-Australian mistake.

Do you Labor voters really believe that true-blue Liberal voters will see you as being altruistic and offering helpful suggestions to help us get the Liberal Party back into gov’t? Or, is it more likely that we just smile at your stupidity?

Sam (de Brito) has painted Tony Abbott as ‘vulgar’. How does he characterise the Labor Party and Ms Gillard? Just imagine what the likes of Sam de Brito would say if the Howard/Costello or an Abbott Gov’t did the following:

1. Increased the retirement age for women factory workers from 60 to 67!
2. Cut $50 million out of the health budget by denying chemotherapy drugs to Australians.
3. Forced single mothers back into the workforce when their youngest child reaches six years of age!

I challenge Sam de Brito and any other Labor supporter to defend that trifecta."

Three weeks later you are still making the same mistakes. You believe your own b*llsh*t, and you don't have the guts to answer the definitive three policy questions above!

Instead of making making cheap ad hominem sttacks on Abbott, why can't you stop laying claim to the moral high ground and face the facts!

Geoffrey Kelley

What facts, Abbott is a dim-wit, a non economic, a woman in power hater.
Any one with half a brain can see Abbott has his own agenda, and wants to say nothing.
Chemo drugs, if the drugs are only a stop gap to prolong life for a few weeks,,, a lot of expense for what.
Can't single mothers pull their weight once their kids are at kinda etc.
Howard put the retirement age into motion.

Belly You are probably right about Gillard, But she has Abbott's measure. If there was going to be any change, i think it would have happened by now.

579 says,

"Chemo drugs, if the drugs are only a stop gap to prolong life for a few weeks,,, a lot of expense for what."

You vile b**tard! Chemo drugs save lives and give hope to cancer sufferers! Only a miserable socilaist Labor voter like you and Gillard would think like that! You really are the pits!

"Can't single mothers pull their weight once their kids are at kinda etc."

Once again 579, try to put yourself in the shoes of these mothers. You are as callous as that turdiferous Labor Gov't Family Services minister, Jenny Macklin, who says she could live on that sort of money. There are about ten weeks a year that kids are home on holidays even if they are not sick. What does a working mother do with her kids for ten weeks a year? No wonder I despise you lot!

"Howard put the retirement age into motion."

No, he adjusted it to allow senior citizens to work if they wanted to! You do not even understand the consequences of these appalling policies, but you are happy to watch Australians lose their jobs while the Labor Gov't gives $3 Billion to the likes of Gadaffi (thankfully dead now) and socialist tyrants like Robert Mugabe.

Geoffrey Kelley

Geoffrey Kelly, do you have the courage to see your own words as the world does?
Has it escaped your attention or are you just to stubborn to except truth.
63% Of us dislike Abbott, can you except that from polling must be far more than Labor voters.
If you disagree with the above lets stop the debate, it is beyond your understanding.
Hurts do it not? me being as RUDE to you as you tried with me.
Gillard, by miles the worst leader my party ever had, IS IN FRONT OF ABBOTT!.
Truth to harsh?
It is the only measure worth while.
How my rude and combative opponent, can you avoid the fact,Labors two party preferred vote is 48%
So, writing slowly my friend, 25% of the I do not want Abbott vote is other than ALP.
Last your post lives in my book, your view rudeness and all, will come back to haunt.
In an election year, THOSE WHO CAN COUNT not you, will remove Abbott, and in doing so ensure a Liberal victory.
Your posting style asks more questions about you than me.

Belly, I don't give a fig for your stats. There is only one poll that counts.

Have a look at the response from 579 before you call me "rude" or impolite or whatever else you can think of. I abhor your side of politics. One of the main reasons I hate socialists is that you consistently claim the high moral ground. Yet, you write hatefully about Abbott being cruel, and then a vicious little bastard like 579 offers answers like the ones he gave to me defending three appalling Labor initiatives. And Swan still cannot balance his budget!

Read 579's response to my three questions defending those three policy initiatives and then give me your opinion on his answers. If you have the guts, why don't you try and answer my questions.

After reading all the hateful comments about my side of politics made by you and your sort, I really don't care how rude you believe me to be.

Geoffrey Kelley

The difference between what i wrote and what you thought i wrote are two different things. For the kemo drugs i said. If;
The single mothers can pull their weight once their kids are in kinda. Sorry;
I think you will find that Howard put the extention of retirement age in place. Seniors have always had the right to work if they want.
Abbott is still a pig.

GK put it on the table.
Apart from using the word Tory, conservative, and personal insults to Abbott you have no evidence.
Here is the very roots of my recent discontent here.
Hasbeen Individual, Shadow Minister, you, and flocks of recent arrivals, INVITED?
List could be longer, target every Labor voter/supporter.
You then inform me the very evidence of your wrong and rude blast is? not worth reading.
Once a grub targeted me here as PEDOPHILE, I had to wait to get that removed.
BECAUSE SOME WHO I DESPISE in my party are.
There is the challenge.
Right there.
This is a LIBERAL SITE.
While no effort to stop my posts has ever been made, folk like you, in the end unsupported by evidence , or thought,run your hob nailed boots over free speech.
MANY leave, from both sides of the fence, as such as you blacken free speech.
A SIMPLE HONEST TRUTH, NO POSTER HERE EVER TOOK TO MY PARTY MORE THAN ME.
I believe I never ever TARGETED all Liberals, while the extremes will never under stand,including you.
80% of this country has the same wants and values.
Until you get some one who can count to explain 63% will not go in to 47% you need to stop insulting others.
A truth, others can consider, it will be in the interests of ALP voters that Nasty man Abbott remain.
It is unlikely even near every ALP voter is not aware of this.
A chance exists that the 63% is nearer half and half.
Even you will have no difficulty in seeing Gillards unpopularity is more than ALP alone.
Considered opinion is a worth while target.
Not providing evidence you are not well informed.

GK get some one who can read.
Look again at your weak insulting broadside at me.
See my repeated requests to 579 to face reality.
IF he committed your crime, you mastered it in your dummy spit, quite spiteful.
A tip, in starting a verbal tennis war, bring a racket with substance, say strings in it.
I leave you to wallow in your self righteousnesses, it is miss placed, lets not bother one another again.

People with rare cancers of the blood and bone marrow, including two forms of leukaemia, will not be given a new drug on the NHS even though it has been proven to extend their lives by nine months.
The National Institute for health and Clinical Excellence (Nice) has said at £45,000 per patient it is too expensive.
Campaigners have said people were being penalised for having the 'wrong' type of cancer and the system was failing people with rare conditions.
In final draft guidance Nice has recommended that azacitidine should not be used to treat people with a range of blood and bone marrow conditions, including myelodysplastic syndromes (MDS), chronic myelomonocytic leukaemia and acute myeloid leukaemia.
It is thought around 700 people a year would have been eligible for treatment and patients groups said such a small group of patients could not place an undue burden on the NHS

Three years ago, in the May 2009 Federal Budget, the Government announced that the Age Pension age is set to increase to 67 years of age from 2023. This major change may have disappeared from the front pages of newspapers but it should be ‘top of mind’ for most Australians thinking about retirement.

For most Australians, the Age Pension will remain an important component of any retirement plan, even when an individual has substantial superannuation and non-superannuation savings. Around 80% of Australians who have reached Age Pension age receive a full or part Age Pension. Some couples who hold more than a $1 million in assets (in addition to the family home) are eligible for a part Age Pension.

Currently, Australians can access the Age Pension at age 65 (for men) and from 64.5 years (for women, although the Age Pension age is moving to 65 for women from 2014). The Age Pension age will then remain at 65 for anyone born before July 1952.

The lift in Age Pension age applies to all Australians born after June 1952. Your retirement planning will be affected if you were born after June 1952, and you’re expecting to receive a part- or full Age Pension on retirement.

The rules are changing for people who started receiving Parenting Payment before 1 July 2006. The same rules will apply to these parents as to someone who is claiming for the first time.

From 1 January 2013, you will no longer be eligible for Parenting Payment when your youngest child turns:

six years of age if you receive Parenting Payment Partnered, or
eight years of age if you receive Parenting Payment Single.

We understand this change may not be easy for you and there is support available to help you. We will arrange an interview for you at your local service centre to talk about this change and your options.
How you will be affected

Any changes for you will depend on whether you’re receiving the single or partnered rate of Parenting Payment. If you move to Newstart Allowance you will still be able to access a lot of the same allowances you could while you were on Parenting Payment.

If you’re on Parenting Payment Single and you move to Newstart Allowance your payment may be less. Some parents will be eligible for a higher rate of Newstart Allowance, which is the same amount as Parenting Payment Single. Single principal carers with large families of four or more, foster carers, and those who are providing home schooling or distance education have access to this higher rate. If this applies to you we can help you with your claim in your interview.

579,

I understand your your ALP policy. Cutting and pasting your vile policies might be fun for you, but according to your figures (are they from Australia or the U.K.?) you choose the make the deaths of 700 Australians a nightmare whilst at the same time giving $A3 Billion to the Africans! $50 Million cut out of the Australian Health budget to help 700 Australian taxpayers through their worst nightmare, and SIXTY TIMES that much to the likes of Robert Mugabe!

That is the policy you embrace and applaud and I despise you for that policy!

I am an Australian taxpayer and I am willing to carry that burden. I assume you are (or have been ) an Australian taxpayer and you and your sort are not willing to carry that burden. It is as simple as that. You are a typical Labor voter and I despise you for your values.

You are an appalling excuse for a human being, just like that vile PM Gillard. A proven liar, a cheat and a crook. I will take Abbott any day over your lot!

Geoffrey Kelley

Metung

579
On Tuesday, 22 January 2013 12:54:37 PM once again you cut and pasted (again, without attribution) another vile ALP policy introduced by this hateful gov't. about the retirement age. Let me give you a practical example of the consequences of this Labor policy. A man I know was gainfully employed as a computer analyst working from home. He was self-employed. Aged about 68 he had a massive stroke that left him totally disabled. His wife was only about 62 years of age and worked as a shop assistant. My friend has to stay alone at home until his wife turns 67 before they can get a pension!

By your standards he is a man who ought to contribute to society and get over it! He has contributed to society by educating about six children at a Catholic private school, but you and your lousy Labor mates penalise him by making his wife work until she is 67.

I am a semi-retired self employed professional man who is way to the right of you and Belly, but even I am not as greedy as you lot.

And that is why I despise you and all that you socialists stand for!

Geoffrey Kelley, Metung

579

Once again (Posted by 579, Tuesday, 22 January 2013 12:54:37 PM) you posted a message without attribution.

I understand your your vile policies penalisng single mothers, even if you cannot articulate them and have to plagiarise another's text. That is why I despise you.

If John Howard or Tony Abbott went to the next election with any three of these vile policies the left-wing journalists would crucify the Liberals. You are sad little socialists full of hate, and that is why I despise you all.

Geoffrey Kelley
Metung

So GK DESPISES 579, not the type of words we should see here in print.
Not sure, and not going to make an effort to find out, if ANY SUBSTANCE is found in the charges this rude dude lays.
I have, in the interests of debate, often spoke to 579 about a total defense style of posting, truth has value.
But nothing in GK,s posts, any of them, points to other than a hot head, without real connection to the real issues.
I could have went as low as GK but true debate requires me not to continue.

C'mon Belly, be fair. I did not confine my scorn to 579; you and all ALP supporters are included. I despise you all.

I despise your filthy policies. You say, "Not sure, and not going to make an effort to find out, if ANY SUBSTANCE is found in the charges this rude dude lays".

You are not going to make an effort to find out your own policies? Don't you know what you and your ilk stand for? You need to research your own political position?

You and your ALP mates think you can say anything you like about the conservative side of politics but you cannot even be bothered to understand your own miserable policies? Are you an intelligent thinking human being, or are you a lemming or a sheep? I think the latter.

Gillard, Rudd and all Labor supporters are destroying this country and you don't even know you are doing it.

I only wish we did not have compulsory voting in this country.

Geoffrey Kelley

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, not necessarily those of this station.
You have a dim view of Labor voters, You despise 50% of AU.
I think you are indicating that i am a Labor supporter, Maybe i am calling it as i see it.
Turnbull would be a far better leader for your lot rather than Abbott.
My opinion of Abbott is a pipsqueek. No vision no policies and no idea.
My opinion of you GK is your are probably a good bloke, just misguided,
you need to see the whole picture, instead of static beliefs.
Until someone can come forward with a make up of govt; that betters the Gillard govt; with policies ,costed and proven, i will back Gillards team, and your opinion will not shift that.
Abbott is losing ground and no doubt that adds to your frustrations.
But try and contain yourself, and look at both sides, to make an informed decision.

GK on page 27 the chap that had the massive stroke and left him totally disabled.
That man can get a disability pension at any age, and his wife can get a carers allowance.

579 do you understand?
In continuing conversation with your red necked hater, you feed him?
He by the very standards of free speech has the right to say as he wishes, to be an uninformed spite filled red neck.
You can silence him.
By ignoring him.
And my companion in voting for the party of reform the only party of reform the ALP .
Are not doing it much good in debating with a stone wall.
This thread, the day Turnbull replaces Abbott, will be your victory, not giving air to pure hate, a sin you continue to commit.
Understand, Labor can not win, not in a year the NSW investigation in to filth is going to kick us.
Not in the year HSU is going to crush us.
Not while Gillard leads.
Your victory comes after the incoming government drops its non core promises.
Have a shower after leaving this once interesting thread, it is now dirty.

They say a week is a long time in politics, but it has taken two weeks to make most of the pro-Turnbull comments redundant!

The ALP continues to stumble from one disaster to another and in the latest poll Abbott is only two points (41 : 39) behind Gillard as preferred PM.

The Libs are in a great position on the two-party preferred basis.

Why is this so? Well, Gillard has shown very bad judgement calling the poll so far out from the election date, but the big negatives are Craig Thomson, union corruption and poor policy choice such as stopping the free computers for school children.

Also, why is Nicola Roxon jumping ship? Could it anything to do wit her role in the AWU fiasco? Will she be forced to give evidence against Julia in a Vic court?

This year is going to be an exciting ride for those of us that love politics :-)

Geoffrey Kelley, Mount Eliza.

Grubby stuff but not unexpected, if you have knowledge of the posters mind set.
Here on clear display,is the mind set of the party we are about to elect.
Inferences and lies dirt bagging innocents and miss treating honesty.
AWU Australian Workers Union, this country's finest union.
Was nothing but a victim.
Not even knowing the miss deeds had taken place.
Gillards then boy friend,his dirt bag mate,and seemingly Gillard, ran a scam.
Yes a so called AWU fund that union never saw a cent or knew about.
It was first to inform the Police after it found out.
This much is true.
Labor by its own hand will be defeated.
Reality is the right bower that always beats the left.
No need exists to rant.
To breed pure hate.
CONSIDER THIS, VERY NEARLY HALF OUR COUNTRY IS BEING INSULTED BY MANUFACTURED JUNK, LIKE THAT POST.

Dear Belly,

You must live in a glass bubble manufactured by the socialist left! You say, "AWU Australian Workers Union, this country's finest union.
Was nothing but a victim.
Not even knowing the miss deeds had taken place."

Let me appraise you of the facts. Bill Shorten was a senior executive of the AWU and was living with his girlfriend of the time, Nicola Roxon, empolyed by Maurice Blackburn & Co.

Gillard was supposed to be the solicitor for the AWU and was a partner in Slater and Gordon, but in 1992 she betrayed her client and set up bank accounts using the AWU name without warning her paying client, the AWU.

When, in 1995, the AWU discovered her duplicitous behavior they took their business and all S&G's files to Maurice Blackburn and Roxon took over the files. Her boyfriend, Shorten, hushed the whole episode up and the AWU did not publicise the facts for fear that the publicity would be damaging.

Any action taken by the police against Gillard and S&G will possibly include asking Maurice Blackburn for their files taken from S&G.

Therefore I predict that Roxon may be required to give evidence against Gillard and S&G.

Belly, you cannot deny these facts. They do not look good for Gillard and her gov't.

Regards,

Geoffrey Kelley

Mad Hatter stuff.
Not unexpected, it took one single post to see you need help.
47 YEARS.
that is how long I was a member, an informed member of that union.
Lets end this, I had said I would not talk to you.
Doing so is wasting my efforts, your bigotry is fixed.
So too your failure to understand any thing requiring an IQ higher than two numbers.

Dear Belly,

By now you and I are the only ones left reading this thread. I want you to know how sincerely I feel for you as an old fashioned trade unionist.

We are about the same age I reckon. I am 67 years old. My great-grandfather was an English Methodist from Cornwall. I was taught that the unionism grew out of the Methodist chapels. My great-grandfather was a “boss” as he was a self-employed carpenter and builder. He actively supported the trade unions and was a leader of the SA Labor Party in the nineteenth century. He was one of the men who set up the Mechanics Institute to help educate working class men.

His son, my grandfather, rejected the ALP after the WW I and we became “Liberals” or conservatives. However, we still believed in and supported the trade unions. When I started out in business I would telephone the old THC for advice on what we now call IR problems. The old unionists would give frank and honest advice to me as an employer which I always took on board. Even today my girls are free to join a union, but they have never bothered as I always treat them above the award conditions.

In your and my lifetime we have seen opportunistic smart guys take over unions and use them as a stepping-stone to further their own careers. I can name them, starting with Gough Whitlam. He came from a wealthy Melbourne family and was educated at Canberra Grammar. He joined the ALP because he could not make it in the Liberal Party. Bill Shorten went to Scotch College in Melbourne, and Nicola Roxon went to MLC, the sister school of my old school, Wesley College. Both were Methodist schools but now are Uniting Church.
(Continued)

(Continued)
I know how much it distresses you, but men like John Cain (went to Alexander Downer’s old school Geelong Grammar followed by Scotch College) married Nancye (Williams) Cain who was the secretary of the Greythorn Young Libs! They were born and bred to be politicians. John Brumby (Old Melbourne Grammar School), John Thwaites (MGS as well), Rob Hulls (Peninsula Grammar) and the Minister for Silly Walks, Tiny Tim Holding (Haileybury college) all were educated at some of Melbourne’s finest schools.

All these men had one thing in common and that was ambition. Not one of them had the blood of Curtin or Chifley running in their veins. One of my great uncles, Harry Waterman, was a conservative voter but was Ben Chifley’s private secretary and Uncle Harry was devoted to Ben Chifley.

The real problem with the Australian Labor Party is that it is led by men who are not true to the cause! They are opportunistic power grabbers.

Everything I said in my previous post is accurate.

Turnbull will never lead the Liberal Party to the next election, not even if Abbott is run over by a bus!

You know damn well that Gillard was supposed to be representing the AWU in 1992, but she supported (pro bono) her lover and his mates to cheat the AWU, the client she was actually charging to do their legal work! Her professional duty of care was to the AWU and not to her lover and his mates.

You also know damn well that Bill Shorten was a senior officer in the AWU in 1996 when the truth came out about Gillard’s vile treachery to the union.

You also know bloody well that Shorten was living with Roxon when Gillard was living with Wilson.

(Continued)

(Continued)

You ought to know that the AWU took its business away from Slater and Gordon in 1996 and gave it to Maurice Blackburn; and Roxon received the files from Gillard so knew all about Gillard’s problems.

Of course Roxon (and everyone else at Maurice Blackburn & Co.) read the files with glee, if only to get up to speed!

And you ought to know that is why Shorten hushed up the scandal to protect the AWU.

Was it a coincidence that Gillard announced the election date the day before police charged Craig Thomson?

As Thomson has been charged, is it not possible that Gillard will be charged for a far greater crime? Thomson only misapplied union funds, but Gillard has the moral culpability of treachery to her client as well as cheating you and your fellow workers out of about $1 million in funds.

If Gillard is charged, will the Vic Police ask Roxon to give evidence on the grounds that Maurice Blackburn & Co. hold the primary evidence?

Belly, don’t shoot the messenger.

Abbott will win and he will win because the rank and file workers of Australia will vote for him. Bob Menzies always recognised that it was the workers who voted him into power.

The ALP needs to get back to grass roots. You need more Curtins and Chifleys and fewer Rudds and Gillards.

If you want my gratuitous advice, Martin Ferguson is the most promising and genuine candidate on your team. He is more in the mould of Curtin than Rudd, Shorten, Gillard, Roxon or any others I have missed.

I am sorry that we are enemies because I firmly believe that you and I could argue the toss in the pub and reach some common ground.

Regards,

Geoffrey Kelley, Mount Eliza.

I am that age too.
Unwilling however to feed your bitter half truths and an actual willingness to use the truth after twisting it to suit your biases.
The AWU and Shorten, had no idea about the filth involved in this sham.
ITS name is wrongly used in talking of the matter.
AWU changed lawyers, because it found out Gillard, while working for one, played a roll in betRaying the union.
My post history is clear.
I am till death savaging the filth in both unionism and my party.
Why then would I lie about your charges?
A fight has begone, to rid my party of its long time infestation, right wing power brokers.
Long ago they stopped being just a defense from the very left.
Now they are self serving FILTH.

Dear Belly,

On that note let us part friends,

Bye,

Geoffrey Kelley