Get a grip Susan.Govt is the biggest murderer of people.Hitler 6 Million Jews and millions more due to war.Pol Pot total 3 million.Chairman Mao 60 million and Starlin 20 million.

The USA has 800 FEMA camps supposedly built for illegal immigrants but they are empty.The USA has the Patriot Act ,Preventative Detention,legalised assassination of suspected terrorists and now the NDAA which gives the military absolute power.

The last thing the US people have to protect them from their Govt is their guns.The USA Constitution has been trashed and that no longer protects them.

I bet the people of Germany never thought that fascism would come to their country either.

Belly,
See there's the problem in a nutshell, if European and European descended populations outside the U.S have the lowest gun homicide rates logic dictates that European Americans would have a similar if not identical relationship with firearms.
Again, this is Leftist PC religious dogma running up against reality or the world as we know it.
The idea of the Redneck "Bubba" running around shooting up the countryside and lynching negroes doesn't fit the world as we know it, to accept that view of White America requires suspension of disbelief on the part of people like Suse and in doing so they are simply moving from the real world to a the fantasy world of FAITH rather than facts.
So, OK. let the American security state crack down on gun control and hear the shrieks of "RACISM" as the Black and Latin prison populations double, then triple, then quadruple...as I said earlier, this debate isn't about guns it's about who gets to control and prosper from the security state and given the fact that the U.S is now a single party state with no hope of ever seeing another conservative administration "Big Brother" is the Democrats and the Left.
But aint it the way of things, "The One", if he acts will get away with jailing possibly hundreds of thousands more of "his people" just because of the colour of his skin, the idea of a gun crackdown on minorities going ahed under Romney is laughable, it's never happen.

What the bloody hell is a "hoplophobe"?

(only joking - I don't really want to know. The reality is that I don't care what a hoplophobe is:)

Anyway thanks, Suze.... but judging by the last few posts, I think this thread might have run its course for me.

Obama could look decisive by adopting ex-PM Howard's politically correct, populist 'initiatives': gun buy-back and gun control that only affected respectable law-abiding citizens such as clay pigeon shooters and farmers. After all, criminals don't apply for licences nor do they register their tools of trade.

Surrender their 'gangster' and ferocious looking guns specially imported to order thanks to that wide-open customs inspection? Not *bleep* likely!

Only the Left could applaud laws that require police to record the personal information of ordinary law abiding citizens as 'persons of interest' on police computers and enabled police to make any number of random inspections in an ordinary citizen's home.

What a way to humiliate an a citizen who is obeying the law and at the same time make it public that s/he has a (licensed) firearm on the premises? Not something the libertarians would accept for known or suspected criminals though. Nope, if done to the local drug trafficker it would always be a shocking invasion of privacy by police.

I wonder if any police have ever been caused to ruminate on the public relations consequences of the costly, intrusive and heavy handed Howard 'initiatives'? Those licensed firearms owners have passed the good character tests to be permitted a licence. So one would imagine that police should be interested in positive public relations with them

In Israel, almost every man aged about 18-40 and most women aged 18-25 is REQUIRED to take an automatic gun home when they are on leave from the army (including reserves).

Now that's disgusting: relatively speaking, it is better not to be allowed to have a gun than to be forced to have one, but the point is that in Israel, despite the large number of guns, we almost don't see such massacres as in the USA (except for the one case of Ami Popper, who in 1990 killed 7 Arabs on nationalist/racist grounds). One helping factor, is that the army screens and rejects potential soldiers with mental issues, however Popper was using his brother's gun.

Now lets face it: police in Australia are unable to protect the elderly in their homes and unlikely to be able to provide them with safety in the near future.

We do find that nearly, if not all, mass-indiscriminate-murderers are young men in their 20's. Why should the elderly suffer because of them?

Those vulnerable demographic groups that are likely to be victims of crime rather than the perpetrators of crime, should be allowed to have a gun to protect their homes. That includes the disabled (though NOT the mentally-disabled!) and those above a certain age, with the stupidity of youth behind them. Naturally, a due checking is necessary (no criminal or mental-illness history, no bad drinking habits, etc.) and those guns must be kept secure and only at home (GPS technology can even ensure that). So long as police is unable to provide safety, vulnerable people should, if a burglar attacks them in their home, be able to shoot them in self-defence.

banning guns might be useless but its a breath of fresh air to those who think education and more money is the answer to the evil heart of man. The more we ignore, shut our eyes to God and believe evolutionary fantasies and moral relativism the more death, evil and lawlessness. I laughed in hysterics one day when a Professor tried to tell me that we are more moral creatures now than a predecessors. He actually believed that nonsense believing man becoming more moral and good is part of the 'evolutionary 'process. Would be funny if it was not so sad. Godlessness unfortunately will continue to increase and no amount of laws will change man's heart.