Dear Gillard,
Here are the latest costs for just picking up the seekers.

Program component
2012-2012
Offshore Asylum Seeker Management $689,018,000
Offshore Asylum Seeker Managemet - Service Delivery $308,202,000
Offshore Asylum Seeker Management - Policy Advice and Program Design $6,022,000
Refugee Status Determinations for Offshore Entry Persons $13,617,000
Refugee tatus Determinations for Offshore Entry Persons - Service Delivery $27,308,000
Total $1,044,167,000

I don't want to burden you with my problems but I have no time to concern myself with "this" particular Gillard lie or “that” particular Gillard lie, you see I'm looking forward to my disability scheme promise, sadly I will have to wait until 2018.

I was getting my teeth fixed via the government dental scheme, but you axed that last month....but you promised you would bring it back in 2014, so that is a pain….literally..

Unluckily I picked up a touch of cancer a while back but you axed the subsidy for the chemotherapy drugs that I was getting just last month and I cannot afford an extra $100 per treatment, but you said the $40 million is a needed budget cut.

But I still have a warm feeling inside knowing that my taxes are helping the asylum seekers find a better life after they fly to Indonesia and throw away their identity and travel documents. It costs me $200,000 per seeker and that is before they are let loose into the community and Centrelink then starts supporting them with a benefit that makes an old age pensioners bank account drool.

But that is no surprise….as you said “why give the pensioners a pay rise, they don’t vote for us anyway”. I guess you have found people who will vote for you to give our money to. I don’t want to be uncharitable but if 200 less asylum seekers had lobbed we would have the $40 million for the chemo drugs. Best of health Gillard.

Yours sincerely,
The Sick Taxpayer.

Sonogloin,
I have a critisism of you. You refered to these illegals as seekers, which is an insult to a good singing group of some years ago.

Plese refer to these free loaders and gate crashers by the proper terminolgy of illegal entrants or illegals, for short.

Dear SOG,

What a depressing state of affairs you seem to
find yourself in. Goodness me. Has it occurred to
you that perhaps you're expecting too much from
the government? Perhaps you should take some
responsibility yourself - such as getting medical
insurance to cover some of your dire expenses?
One minute the government is being criticised for
spending too much. Next for not spending enough.

As for asylum seekers? You need to do a bit more
research on this complicated topic. And have a
general re-think before you post.

Lexi, my belle, all fair observations.

Re the "patient pay for thyself", a compassionate society carries both the fools and those sideswiped by fate that survive among us. I was not asking for more like greedy Oliver Twist, I am asking for restoration of something we had, something that saves the poorer Australians from suffering the fate of third world citizens...get sick....you die.

Re the asylum seekers, every five illegal boat people that willfully threw away their documents and then became our problem costs us 1 million dollars. Last month a boat with 70 appeared. That moment cost us 14 million dollars. The money Gillard took from the chemo subsidy pays for three boats of 70 illegals.

Not a complicated subject for me.

Part 1: Strong young men catch international flight, throw away their documents, board boats and tell our supposed boarder security anything they want. Cost “before” we house clothe feed and give them cash, 1 BILLION this year alone.

Part2: Fred Johnson, little education, spent most of his time as factory fodder, only achievement was paying taxes, retired with nothing has cancer and is on the chemo subsidy. Cost before we support him in his time of greatest need, negative, he was taxpaying. Cost to support him now…200 fit strong healthy illegals. Sorry Lexi, Fred wins.

Banjo>>You refered to these illegals as seekers, which is an insult to a good singing group of some years ago.<<
Banjo, my bride said exactly that!

sonofgloin - You have missed out on a lot of things.
1) the millions of extra dollars that were given to New Guinea to allow Manus to be reopened.
2) Hundreds of millions for the royal Australian taxi service to go 370kn or so into Indonesian waters to bring them to Australia.
3) The millions of dollars for legal fees for the refugees to challenge every decision.
4) The millions of dollars to repair facilities after they have rioted and burnt down buildings.
5) The cost of at least 2 times chartering a jet to bring 1 person from Christmas Island and 1 from Nauru.
6) The cost of police overtime attending the riots etc. (remember the SWAT team in Broadmeadows for 4 on the roof of the house.)
7) The HIDDEN cost of the thousands who have already been put into the community and looked after by the charities - THAT COST IS ULTIMATELY PAID BY TAX PAYERS.
8)The social cost because no welfare for lifers are homeless but thousands of Australians are.
9)The millions of dollars and equipment we give Indonesia to help them stop the boats (which they fail to do)

To name some.

Let the people of Australia decide:

Those who like refugees - should pay to bring them in.

Those who like to provide dental, disability and cancer-assistance to the poor should direct their funds towards these noble causes.

Wouldn't you, Sonofgloin, feel better and warmer inside to have your medical needs met by caring people who gave their money freely to help you? or perhaps by Christians who believe they'll go to heaven as a result? or others perhaps who want to make up for their past bad actions? - that, rather than by an armed gang that takes people's wealth without their consent (what are such people normally called?)? Does becoming an accomplice to their actions make you feel nice and worthy?usually

As for the refugees, if you're going to help someone find a shelter in Australia with your own money, if you are not bound by conventions and formalities but by your own conscience alone, if you use only common-sense instead of legalities, then you would know much faster and with higher precision than any lawyers and agencies whether the people you pay to bring are genuine or not. When that happens and refugees come to know it, every refugee who has a shred of identification papers remaining, would keep them like gold.

I am not saying that Ms. Gillard couldn't help - she is more than welcome, but from her own purse, please!

Gee, you can just feel the resentment, hate, paranoia and fear from the handful of "Fortress Australia" devotees on this far right wing forum. Sad.

Sad is right, DiamondPete.

Fancy living with such fear and loathing every day. Must become terribly stressful.

I need only one post put my thoughts about this.
First can we except that that has been done can not be undone.
Yes Labor policy has bought about these huge numbers.
And yes, even if both points can be rebutted, economic refugees out number true refugees.
A third truth? more than half of us, Australians, do not want the boats to continue
Now, the back bone, how would you stop them?
If, and it is more than just likely, Liberals win office.
And Labor and the greens team up to stop such as the Malaysian solution.
Would conservatives be unhappy? as they seem quietly pleased that Abbott has put his ambitions before our country.
A scandal that after a quick look best discribes his concerns for only himself.

Pericles>> Fancy living with such fear and loathing every day. Must become terribly stressful.<<

You hit it on the head there Pericles, Gillard certainly brings rage and revulsion from a fair slice of the electorate. I back that statement with this:

>>The first major Nielson opinion poll after the carbon tax showed the Labor party's primary vote dropped to 26 percent, the lowest for a major party in the poll's 39-year history.<<

Just for the record Pericles I am certainly not right wing, just like the lawyers and centralists that currently run the Australian Labor Party are certainly not left wing.

Lexi, To the extreme right its all black and white....... get rid of the Blacks and keep the Whites.
The weekly hate discussion, from the usual suspects.
Can I ask, sonofgloin and banjo do you hold a meeting in some dingy basement to plan your posts, can't be spontaneous.
sonofgloin refers to asylum seekers, then its banjo's job to castigate sonofgloin as some kind of bleeding heart liberal by referring to asylum seekers, its illegals, free loaders and gate crashers, illegal entrants or illegals.

Sonofgloin
A good exposé of *some* of the waste that arises from us pandering to the immigration scammers and their Oz based accomplices.

There has been recent calls that we can no longer afford to fund middle class welfare. Yet –as can be seen from your list of expenses --we continue sign blank cheques willy-nilly to accommodate the costly “asylum seeker” scam.

To adapt a much used quip: Never has so much been spent to placate so “few”. The “few” in this case being the boat borne opportunists and the vocal holy-than-thou minority who advocate for them.

If anything, Sonofgloin, you were a little too soft on the PM. Though, I’m not so naïve as to believe we can beat this scam by simply changing the PM, or even the governing party. There is a whole industry of lawyers, public servants and those who simply would find life empty if they didnt have a detention centre to picket, who need our present "it's a complicated topic" namby-pambism to continue.

Paul1405,
I do not know sonofgloin, so can only speak for myself.

Haveing looked closely at the motives of the illegals, the route they take, How they get their travel docs and why they destroy them before arrival here and at why they are willing to pay far more than the current air fare to smugglers, I have came to the conclusion that the illegals are shonks that gate crash our country and lie to our officials.

Not the type of people we need in our society, they deserve our condemnation.

I will not pass the opportunity to correct others who try to portray them in a better light, than the con artists that they are. They are illegal entrants when they arrive and that is the term that should be used.

Paul,

About your comment on black and white:

* there are more than forty million frefugees in the world. A huge proportion of them are in Africa. At one camp in Kenya, there are more than 300,000 refugees from Sudan, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Uganda and Somalia.

Some questions: how many of them would like to come to Australia ? How many have their names down, and how long have some of them been waiting their turn, in the queue ? Five years ? Ten years ? Who would you knock back ?

How many African refugees get on those boats to flee their dire situations ?

The dilemma for every one of those forty million refugees must be terrible and tragic, but there have to be some criteria for selection, I'm sure you would agree.

In my view, the government should double the refugee intake on the one hand, and develop much more 'persuasive' policies to discourage queue-jumpers and illegal immigrants on the other.

Dreadfully hard decisions must be made, but for everyone who criticises governments for their hard-heartedness, the question remains: what's YOUR upper limit, out of that forty million ? Who would you exclude, and put at the back of the queue, in favour of someone else ?

Some problems don't have easy solutions, that's for sure.

Cheers,

Joe

I am not sure what is being advocated. Is it that if we elect Abbott this will all stop?

Without brutality on the part of Australia it will not stop! Such brutality could be to undertake to shell and sink a percentage of the boats and actually carrying out that threat.

Most thinking people accept that curing the political and well-being problems in the home countries is the only long term solution.

The "no advantage" rules are about the only reasonably humane philosophy and course of action available to Australia's politicians.

It's interesting to read the various points of view.
Underneath it all, I still believe that Australians
are the most generous of people with big hearts.
And I also believe that none would turn away people
who are in dire need of help. Asylum-seekers are a
global problem and one that will remain with us for
some time yet. A problem regardless of whichever government is
in power - will have to deal with.

I also feel that in this country we are very fortunate.
Many Americans would love to have our Medicare System,
and our Healthcare, as well as our working conditions.
If we were to compare our lifestyle
with what's on offer elsewhere in the world, (including
the current state of our economy) - we'd realise just
how fortunate we really are. Perhaps that's the reason
so many want to come here.

Oh Lexi, your back !
I guess there is no internet up on that cloud nine where you have been.

To add insult to injury, the government has agreed to this payment to
poor countries because we have generated some co2.
China is one of the countries on the receiving end of this largess.
Where will they get it ?
Why, borrow it from the Chinese !
While they are at it they will borrow the money for the illegals.
Where will they get it ?
Why, borrow it from the Chinese !
Aaaarrrrgggghhhh !

Lexi - You are totally right with the reason for them coming in your last paragraph but the reason is the problem because THEY ARE ECONOMIC REFUGEES and most can't speak English so technically it is impossible to employ them so they end up as WELFARE FOR LIFERS at the expense of the taxpayer.

They can (or most can) be stopped Howard did it Rudd undid it.

In Germany and other countries they get a fraction of what German citizens get for welfare, but here they get the same. They Government says they don't but they do the shortfall is given in by the charities but the money etc comes from the taxpayers.

Starting last week thousands will be released into the community
Juliars motto WE WON"T HAVE ONE HOMELESS REFUGEE to bad for the homeless Australians and rent prices will start to go up in major cities because the Government will pay higher to make sure they get the houses.

Ou-wah, Lexi, now you’ve gone and done it.

<<our Medicare System, and our Healthcare, as well as our working conditions.… Perhaps that's the reason so many want to come here.>>

If they were/are coming to OZ for the aforementioned benefits they would not be “refugees” would they?

In fact, that is what most of the posters on the nay side have been saying for a long time: they ARE primarily attracted by our affluence.

Now poor old Paul 1405 will be penciling you down as just another racist redneck fish-paper reader –you can kiss goodbye to any likelihood of an invite to his Christmas bash this year!

I am to make a suggestion that is going to raise shock and horror!

Detention as we have is inhumane. Undoubtedly, many will agree with me.

During WWII many fled their own countries invaded by nazis. Indeed, many fled to enlist in foreign armies to fight Hitler. My father was one such person. These people were well respected and valued contingents.

Undoubtedly, many coming to our shores feel the same way about seeing their own country freed. Perhaps those of arms-bearing age could be conscripted and trained and sent home, as special contingents. Knowing the terrain and language, they would be invaluable. Importantly, they could replace some of our troops, which very few people want to see there.

I would not, however, suggest that they be given only six-weeks basic training as our men were before being sent to fight a professional and extremely well-trained army in New Guinea during WWII.

An interesting idea, Danielle,

Some variation of this is worth considering if we can work out the details, however:

1. <<Detention as we have is inhumane. Undoubtedly, many will agree with me.>>
2. <<Perhaps those of arms-bearing age could be conscripted and...>>

Conscription is at least as inhumane as detention.

Danielle - What are you smoking?

Quote "Perhaps those of arms-bearing age could be conscripted" This must be a joke these cowards left there family behind supposedly to escape terror and torture etc and you expect them to go back.

Remember 95% that arrive here are men BUT in Africa and Syria and other conflict zones it is WOMEN & CHILDREN or whole families. We get economic cowards.

Quote "Detention as we have is inhumane" THEY GET much more than the tent and some food and water that the UN give other refugees.
If they don't like it BAD LUCK they can go home or stop in one of the many safe countries they were in before they got to Australia.

Indonesia has over 100,000 refugees there trying to get to Australia Malaysia has more than that both countries GIVE THEM NOTHING NOT ONE CENT that is why they come here Economic welfare for lifers.

Danielle,

<<Undoubtedly, many coming to our shores feel the same way about seeing their own country freed. Perhaps those of arms-bearing age could be conscripted and trained and sent home, as special contingents. Knowing the terrain and language, they would be invaluable. Importantly, they could replace some of our troops, which very few people want to see there>>

The wall-to-wall human rights bodies that we’ve inflicted on ourselves would not let you get to first base on that one.

However, even if we were to fudge it, there is every likelihood that once put in that position our "refugees" would suddenly discover they have a lot in common with "the enemy" and swap sides.

You are right, of course. What do you suggest other than detention?

Perhaps many would be more than willing to form a contingent, train, and return home.

However, I firmly believe that those who wish to come to Australia receive English lessons, are trained in some skill (if they have none), and importantly be educated in our value system. If they must be detained, they should be educated there. We don't want them to suffer culture shock!

Interesting to note, that many men who come with their families enjoy a freedom and democracy unheard of in their own countries. Unfortunately, however, this so often doesn't extend to their womenfolk and daughters, who remain in the same controlled and parlous state they were prior to coming here. Somehow, this picture does not seem right.

Many trumpet freedom for asylum seekers ... male asylum seekers only, it seems.

When such people advocate, indeed, fight for the rights of these women, I will believe them to be sincere.

Danielle>> Unfortunately, however, this so often doesn't extend to their womenfolk and daughters, who remain in the same controlled and parlous state they were prior to coming here.<<

Hang on a minute there Danielle, I don't think you can blame the boys for this one, it's the Religion.

Even the Muslim ladies and girls defend their servitude; it's the faith that dictates the culture. I am not saying that the Koran vindicates the cultural oppression of women as a part of doctrine, but the creation of Adam before Eve is a strong base premise that Muslim fundamentalist carry as to the role of the woman in society.

Over the past 1000 years we have witnessed evolving doctrines and acceptance of the “other” from all the major religions of the globe, except Islam. Islam is a robotic religion that has no updates installed, and there are none coming.

Dear Sonofgloin,

<<Hang on a minute there Danielle, I don't think you can blame the boys for this one, it's the Religion.>>

It's nothing to do with religion, just some primitive tribal customs.
Apparently some of that tribe have an interest in selling you such fairy-tales as if their abhorrent customs are backed up by religion. Sadly you seem to buy theirs.

Yuyutsu,

Most of these ancient tribal customs, which indeed pre-date Islam, are embedded within religion. They serve a purpose (to at least one section of their communities) and thus remain.

A friend, now retired from a government position, spoke of matters handled by her department. A woman, originally a child bride was brought in as a refugee. She was not permitted by her husband to learn English, indeed have contacts beyond her community. Due to ongoing abuse,she immolated herself.

Whilst we have suicides within the wider community due to abusive relationships, the instance mentioned above was neither isolated, nor unique. Such women at risk have nowhere to turn. Whilst the menfolk are helped and given money, which the women frequently never 'see', the women remain chattels. Yes, many women 'approve' of their position - they have little choice.

So much space and energy is committed to the rights of refugees; but for an important part of this group ... they may as well not be here.

Yuyutsu and Danielle, religion or cultural imprint, they are not changing in a hurry.

Just remember come election time WHO CAUSED THIS MESS.

I fear we will NEVER recover from this intrusion in our lives and financial purse.

I say again, and will continue to say, do we act now, or do we wait for them to arrive with guns.

There are many solutions to where we are today.

1. Illegal arrivals.
Withdraw from the United nations Convention on refugees and then simply turn the boats around at their peril.
2. Massive deficits in federal and state finances.
Increase the GST to 20% and collect it all, not only half of it. Kill the cash economy.
3. The drug problem/
Set up a "Legal Commission" that has coercive penal rights. Ask the right questions and follow the supply chains to the top. Lock the up for life without parole.
4. Prison Economics.
Make all prisoners work for their sustenance. Remember when it used to be "Imprisonment with hard labor"?
5. Crime.
Bring back the 'Vagrancy Act' If you will not work you go to prison where you will work or starve.
Bring back the 'Consorting Act' If you mix with other convicted criminals you go back to prison.
Bring in a 'Third time Losers Act' Three indictable convictions and you go to prison for the rest of your life.
6. Juvenile Crime.
repeal the 'Juvenile Justices Act' and bring back the 'Child Welfare Act' A crime is a crime and treated like one and thew offenders get locked up where they learn the values of society.
7. Most Impotent. Treat all races, colors and creeds as the same.
CG

Chrisgaff,
Your first proposal is logical, the other points are not.

cg1000>> Make all prisoners work for their sustenance. Remember when it used to be "Imprisonment with hard labor"?<<

We used to do that, but with free trade agreements the prisons found that they could source the same items cheaper from third world prisons. Blame the Lima agreement on that.

Dear chrisgaff1000 and Sonofgloin,

<<"Imprisonment with hard labor">>

Though I don't wish it on anyone, one day you too could become a prisoner, either because you have no conscience or because you have one, or perhaps just because you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Nauru should be used as a staging point.

The illegal immigrants should be shipped here, processed, and the economic migrants put on a plane back.

Turning around the boats and TPVs will also be a great dis incentive.

Bugger putting them on planes SM, by the time they have been assessed, they have cost us enough all ready.

Stick them back on the boats they came on, & give them 24 hours to get out of our territorial waters, or be sunk as invaders, which is of course, what they are.

the letter most written on peoples mind to the PM is election please. The grubby independants who took the morally superior ground in disguising their hatred will be gone soon. The slimy smirk on their faces is disappearing albiet slowly.

Agreed Hasbeen; Indonesia cannot refuse them entry because the boats
are Indonesian and have Indonesian crew.

It really is as simple as that.

Remember the Tamil boat people, no, not the ones arriving here but the
ones that went to Sri Lanka. In the end they demanded half the country
from the Ceylonese.
We will be looking down the same barrel in the future.

They have to stop them being able to bring the family - remember 95% are men by them self X that by 3 to 5 in the family and there alone we are forced to take nearly 40,000 more just for the ones who came in the last 3 months.

CUT DOWN WHAT THEY ARE GIVEN food stamps only

[Deleted. Abuse. Trolling.]

Yes we would, but then they would arrive by plane.

Bazz, that a nice right wing "PC" response from you. It proves my point well.

I am glad about that !

[Deleted for abuse and trolling as are the rest of the comments by Diamond Peter, on this thread.]

Attention everyone:
New laws to be introduced next year will make it an offense to offend
another person by saying or writing a statement that offends them.

We should perhaps start practicing how to make accusations of being
stupid or racist or left or right politically, without leaving
ourselves open to having a complaint made to the discrimination commissioner.
Tony Abbott would be able to complain that Julia Gillard called him a misoginist.

You think I am joking ?
No way, the Labour government has already published the bill.
Julia Gillard will present it to the next session of parliament.

It appears to have distinctions between workplaces and elsewhere.
If you printed out something offensive to moslems you would not be
committing an offense unless you took it to work.

So get ready and practice being nice to each other and don't write
anything that someone might not like.

DiamondPete - Quote "if the boat people were all white/fair skinned/blond haired (happy now SPOR?) people from a starving/war torn England, USA, Canada etc etc, then you'd be welcoming them with OPEN ARMS. AND YOU KNOW IT."

1) It amazes me how you seem to know what people would do even after them saying over and over they would not accept welfare for lifers NO MATTER WHERE THEY COME FROM.

2) You forgot to mention these people from England etc would be women and children as what happened during WW2, NOT THESE WE GET 95% ON MOST BOATS MEN.

3) Again you have thrown out the racist card without any hard evidence to prove that.

4) Simply not wanting boatloads of welfare for lifers FROM ANYWHERE does not make one a racist except in your mind.

5) The last few pages will lead to joy for everyone except yourself because you will have used your 8 posts now we don't have to hear your dribble for 24 hours.

Careful Philip S, next year Diamond Pete could report you for saying
he is offended because you said he talks dribble.
Truth is not a defence.

Dear Bazz,

<<If you printed out something offensive to moslems you would not be committing an offense unless you took it to work.>>

Where does a judge work? In court, isn't it?

So we have nothing to worry about - if a judge said that I'm guilty, then they would offend me, hence s/he would be committing an offence!

Case #1234567, Prosecution:

Ms. Jane Citizen, is it true that you told the witness, "Stop touching my breasts, I don't know you and have no interest knowing you ever, how less so to have sex with you"?

- Just answer with 'Yes' or 'No'.

Would it be unreasonable to assume, your honour, that the defendant was well aware that her statement would offend the witness, in breach of section 6789X?

I ask the court to pronounce Ms. Citizen guilty on 3 counts of offensive language!

Perhaps we could get back to the topic :)

There are more than forty million refugees across the world at the moment. A high proportion of them are fleeing civil wars in African countries, and are desperately destitute.

Perhaps a hundred thousand have put their names down for refuge in Australia. Since we are now taking in around twenty thousand a year, that necessarily means that people on the list may have to wait around five years. i.e. a queue.

Question: if 'boat-people' are to form part of the refugee intake, what happens to all of those poor buggers who have done the right thing, put their names forward, and waited ? There is a refugee camp in Kenya where 300,000 people are waiting.

The refugees on the boats may well be genuine refugees, but they are refugees who can afford - or their relatives can, between them, afford - to pay smugglers thousands to get on those boats. Can any of those 300,000 in that one camp in Kenya afford to do so ? Aren't they at least as deserving ? But we will never see them on the boats.

I'm not begrudging the desperate people who do scrape together all of their - and their relatives' - savings to get on a boat to Australia, but before we do a Sarah H-Y, and weep at the sight of the first refugee we see, let's not forget those poor fellow-human beings who are trapped in vast, ghastly, desert camps, with literally not even a pot to cook food in, people who have put their names down and are waiting their turn.

It's a b@stard of a world, but destitute and desperate people who have done the right thing should be attended to first, or at least, certainly shouldn't be shuffled to the back of the queue just because others jump in front of them.

Sonofgloin, obviously some commenters haven't picked up on the fact you were putting forward the facts with an attempt at humour. However, it can't be disputed that it is our money from our pockets the government uses to shower benevolence in all directions here and abroad, with obviously no regard for the consequences of the huge costs for us, as they use our money to do this. The State has NO money except what they glean from us through borrowing our savings or increased taxation - much of it in various hidden taxes. The overall picture of our finances and the profligate waste and mismanagement should have every person in this country scared - very scared! Tomorrow will come, and how will just the annual 7 billion interest on our present borrowing be funded? Simple and only answer has to be more taxes and cuts to essential services which we previously had, and it is our money which will be used to do it, because ours is the only money they have to play with. I stress - the State has no money except ours!
The Reserve Bank has lowered it's rates to 'emergency levels', and Wayne Swan had the effrontery to go on television and call lower interest rates a Xmas gift to families, while completely ignoring the reasons why the Reserve have lowered their rates to such drastic levels.
Voters who cannot see this true picture must be extremely naiive.
It would be a brave person who could argue that a $4 billion surplus inherited from the previous government and turned into a more than $140 billion deficit in just 4 years by this present government is a good thing for this country!

worldwatcher>> voters who cannot see this true picture must be extremely naiive<<

I just returned from a business trip to far western NSW. On Wednesday night I was sitting in the town’s only pub, and only traveler accommodation, when the nightly news had an item about the economic refugees and the cost to our taxpayers. The half a dozen blokes in the bar overwhelmingly voiced their disgust at the situation that brought about this illegal flow with words and sentiments not fit to print in this forum.

I added some factual costs to the argument that further shocked all the boys and generated more unprintable comments regarding the situation. I then commented that the change of government next year would start the slow crawl back to a logical solution with permanent protection visas and the curtailing of these illegal’s to access our court system free of charge.

Immediately the focus shifted from the illegal’s to Tony Abbott. “Can’t stand Abbott,” was the sentiment that a few of the boys expressed and no amount of logic could move them, they were voting for Gillard no matter how big a hole she was digging our nation into. I attempted to explain that I have a footy team that I follow, right or wrong, winning or losing, because I am a faithful supporter, but when it came to politics I vote on performance, and change teams based on that. They could not see it. They employed the same logic I apply to my footy team; they will stick with Labor because they always have. I gave up and then considered how on the face of it rational hard working Aussies could vote for such a dud bunch of self serving lying clowns.

Simpletons walk among us and their ranks are growing. Perhaps it has something to do with a generation of dills. This week’s release of global literacy results for primary students may have something to do with it. Australian kids are ranked LAST in literacy among all the English speaking nations of the globe. We tied with nations like Bulgaria.

Loudmouth, to rub salt in, they have already passed through two or more
countries of safety. It is that which converts them from refugees
into economic illegal migrants; if they were ever refugees.

Worldwatcher, well actually it is not our money, it is either the
proceeds of the sale of Aus Govt bonds or money borrowed from such as China.
Now the govt has signed up to pay "poor" countries for so called
damage from global warming. China is one of the countries to be paid !

So we borrow from one "poor" country to pay that "poor" country for the
damage that that "poor" country has caused more than anyone else !

I wonder what Alice would have made of it all.

Bazz,
As well as borrowing from China, government bonds are funded by us, the people. It is our money which enables the State to issue bonds. The State does not have any other source of money it can call on, and the State does not have any money unless it borrows it. As for Alice Bazz, we've joined her character in our own looking glass, and are just as befuddled that we [mostly] sane people have some real doozies running the show for us, and making crazy decisions that leave intelligent people wondering how long this nightmare is going to last, and what more damage they can do to our wonderful country and people.
Yes, there is suffering all around the world - always has been, but we have had our share of suffering here too. Our first priority should be those people who built this country through sheer hard work and who coped with adversities without government help. Mateship meant people who helped their peers through hard times, which is why - with such a widespread comparitively small population- we were admired for our attitude.
How can our just over 20 million people in this 90% desert country cope with over $140 billion debt, and take in even more people who don't have our values and work ethics, or even speak our language? What other country would allow this to happen?
Here's an interesting fact. Obama presides over 300 million people, yet he receives an annual salary which is less that our P.M.'s. Which leaves me to posit that he is either grossly underpaid, or our P.M. is grossly overpaid, especially as she is such a poor manager, and would not have lasted 5 minutes in the private sector for such poor performance. Of course, also in the private sector, the CEO's are promoted on past performances, not because they stabbed their boss in the back. Anyway,the true power in this country now is held by a couple of Greens who have a much smaller agenda they work towards.

Sonofgloin,
You don't surprise me. How people who can ignore logic that stares them in the face is beyond my comprehension. Maybe you're right, Aussie intelligence appears to have slipped considerably. Spin is winning out over commonsense. A vote should be based on performance [or lack of it] of governments. So the people with whom you spoke didn't like Tony Abbott. What a lame excuse for ignoring the fact that they should vote for which is the best party, and has the best record for fiscal management, and the only party which has delivered surpluses is Liberal.
Politics is not football where one team has always been your favorite, so you stick with it because you always have although maybe they're a poor performing team. A game only briefly touches their lives once a week. Poor politics affect the whole of our lives, which is happening to all of us right now. How does one educate such people
to understand this I wonder? Maybe to draw the analogy that whilst they may not like one football particular team member, it is the whole team they still choose to support. Wish I'd been there with you.

World watcher, many of those bonds are bought by foreign governments and financial institutions.
They all have to be paid back.
What makes you think the debt is $140 billion ?
It is more like $600 to $700 billion if you count everything that has
to be repaid with interest.

Bazz - slap my hand for understating the amount of our enormous deficit. Now I stand corrrected - thank you for scaring me even more with your probably more accurate calculations!! Any ideas on how just over 20 million of us will ever pay this back, even though interest rates are historically as low as they've ever been?
It is a given that this government doesn't even seem to care about the enormous monkey the've put on our backs. Our present government has an inflated sense of it's importance on the world stage. They are like children attempting to play adult games, which impresses no-one except those who take the handouts being so generously distributed every time our P.M. opens her mouth.
Is the present government so heedless of consequences for the people of Australia that they will continue this path to our destruction? I fear the desire for personal power at all costs, together with trying to impress on the world stage has completely eclipsed any hopes we may have had of good governance for the people.

Well said ww.

Not to worry world watcher, it is not easy to get exact liabilities
when it comes to government debt.
When Barnaby Joyce said the gross figure was something bear $900 billion
he was attacked by Wayne Swann as a financial illiterate.
However Joyce explained that government deficit is the one government
likes to use, but you do have to add on bonds that have been sold and
not yet redeemed plus a number of other outstanding debts such as
unfunded superannuation liabilities.

I am no expert on these matters and I think govt tries to hide it all
by scattering the debt about under different names.
That was the point Joyce made, doesn't matter what you call them,
they still have to be repaid and interest paid.