http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-12/abbott-backs-call-for-child-abuse-royal-commission/4367364

"I believe we must do everything we can to make sure that what has happened in the past is never allowed to happen again."

Doesn’t Australia say this a lot?

The result of the Special Commission of Inquiry into Child Protection Services in NSW actually recommended in 2008 that we place all our children that are in Out Of Home Care into the hands of NGO’s (Not-for-Profits and Charities). This is being implemented right now in NSW.

Although not in the spirit of moving forward (because that just leads to a whole lot of apologies); shouldn’t the Royal Commission look at why a Special Commission of Inquiry came to this conclusion?

yes i feel all who covered anything up are as guilty
but untill govt changes the laws..we know its all just a joke.

we need laws federal laws..enforced federally..overseeing states laws[the joke]

anyone working with children must have more than full accountability and suffer real pain..till then its just more jobs for the boys.

we need lawfull protections for the victims here
we need full exposure..no secrets..i want to see this dead corpse bleed...not just further expose and hurt the innocent/till perverted.

as far as im concerned those who get these mongrels off are worse than the actual abusers..the lawyers are just too good at what they do..to innocents...

those making money from the sin..lawyers/judges
thats what really should be criminal..all such crimes must have minumum sentances..and the longer they 'got away with it'..the longer the jail time.

WHAT WE NEED IS REALLY GET TOUGH..federal law*
or its all revealed to be yet another sic* joke..[or worse red head spin.

Thanks TPP we need to look at a culture of covering up for Churchs and others.
Even police, I share your love of kids and the thought one of those I helped get a start had to suffer this would hurt.
I told of the little girl life ruined by her own dad, not knowing two others would appear the same story.
Time for our country to ask why so many say we do not need to investigate this.

That last little thread I had about the Loving Dad’s Year of Torment… falsely accused etc Belly. I guess that is the other side of the coin, you get it wrong there is much harm caused. Much indignation and hurt and apparently the irresistible urge to spread the harm to the kids you claimed not to have harmed in the first place. Arrgghh!

I think the last inquiry got it very wrong suggesting all the children go to NGO’s. But if I had a dozen things I wanted to hide I would put them in 12 different places as well, and that is my problem with NGO’s in foster care (the most vulnerable children they reckon in society).

But the last inquiry into what was all going wrong with DoCS decided lets scatter the children and lets not fix DoCS (now FaCS) let’s just change their job description and instead of looking too closely at the harm the charities and not-for-profits have caused throughout history along with the cover-ups we’ll give them even more children (the aforementioned vulnerable ones remember) and all during a time where more apologies were being handed to the last generation of children (see “vulnerable) they abused. AARRGGHH!

I guess this was the vent I was heading towards OUG.

Are “apologies” and “Royal Commissions” like “Wars” – do they get a politician more votes if they begin one?

I can't believe we are wasting millions, just to find out what we already know.

This grubby practice has been going on for decades, in fact, my late father spoke of it happening while at boys school, 1930's.

They (churches) are a law to themselves.

A confession fixes everything. Apparently!

You are right about that rehctub.
Catholics believe that all sins can be forgiven by a God, and thus if a clergyman rapes a child, he can ask for forgiveness in the confessional each and every time he abuses a child.
. All this with the added 'bonus' of his confession never being reported to the police because of the 'sanctity' of the confessional!

If any lay people get wind of the paedophile clergy men's 'activities', well that's ok also, because they can just be moved far away to another parish where the unsuspecting new prey won't know about him until too late.

A veritable paedophile paradise really.

They should have started this royal commission with the Catholic Church....

Aw Rehctub, you’re right again and got me thinking.

This is all stupid, the police just have to go get the victim statements and peruse them properly and charge people with obstructing justice or whatever they need to do when anyone gets in the damn way. I think in Britain they call it “robust policing”. Somewhere the police have let the victims down as well and are pointing fingers.

Then some decent laws put in place where every org/church is acting illegally if they over up any crimes or help relocate someone charged with a crime?

We might be in the wrong thread, or this also belongs in Paul1405’s thread.

My take on it is that right now foster parents are being shifted into the ranks of NGO’s without choice; they are told they have to go apply to an NGO if they want to foster children. It’s just wrong and this Royal Commission is exactly why it is wrong. They are state wards, as state wards I believe they need to be under the administration of the state.

Hey Suse, I’m now thinking no matter what horrible things the Royal Commission finds the Catholic Church has either covered up or allowed, what will be the result – they disband it? Not bloody likely.

TPP not that far from where I live ,well within 100klms is the center of the Hunter valley Catholic Church scandal.
You know I am not a Christian.
But I know something exists we do not understand.
I had to drive past that place, at least weekly, some times daily.
Not a bias, just the truth, my blood ran cold, even if I was unaware of what I was passing midnight or mid day.
I sat out side one day, contemplating what made it so, no way I could do it again.evil!
Watch the complaints, the silly idea Gillard will gain from this, see Abbott agrees with it.
See world wide the already finished inquiry's , see the results.
From Holland Ireland and America.
My friend you love kids,I took on the task for no pay, of raising 5, one of them,to his eternal shame, is a Pedophile.
I knew three victims.
I question the humanity, of ANY ONE who puts cash before Kids!
This marks the day my country both sides of politics said ENOUGH.
We should be proud, I wounder why some seem to fear this ?

We know what has been happening, but no one has been charged. So that is what a royal commission is all about. It will cost, and so have the actions of members of churches and other organizations.
I suspect there will be a heap of vacancies after this enquiry.

Belly all I see is that we have a history of putting cash before kids, churches and charities took cash from govt to care for The Stolen and The Forgotten children. We’ve only recently apologised for the Forced Adoptions while at the same time trying to push adoptions from the foster child pool of kids.

I’m so worried that this will all result in another Australian sorry without a thought given to the fact that what is in place now is a system that is not transparent and where a cash for kids business depends on being seen to be caring for children appropriately without the systems in place to make it so.

http://safehands.org.au/documents/psa_safehands_final.pdf
"Outsourcing has been tried before. In the 1990s the NSW
Government attempted to outsource out of home care. The
decision was reversed after thousands of children were found to
have been neglected, many became homeless and several died.

Right now, the NSW Government is preparing to accelerate the transfer
of children in out of home care to the non-government sector.
Under current plans all foster care placements will be managed
by the non-government sector by 2017, with over four thousand
children to be transferred in the next two years."

What is the saying about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

>>Catholics believe that all sins can be forgiven by a God, and thus if a clergyman rapes a child, he can ask for forgiveness in the confessional each and every time he abuses a child.<<

But he won't necessarily receive it. A Catholic priest is not required to grant absolution just because somebody confesses. From wikipedia:

>>sacramental confession requires three "acts" on the part of the penitent: contrition (sorrow of the soul for the sins committed), disclosure of the sins (the 'confession'), and satisfaction (the 'penance', i.e. doing something to make amends for the sins).<<

Contrition is 'sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again.'

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P4D.HTM

If the penitent doesn't show contrition he's not entitled to reconciliation.

Priests also have a lot of discretion when it comes to penance: they can ask that the penitent submit themselves to the law as part of their penance.

>>They should have started this royal commission with the Catholic Church....<<

So we can all enjoy a bit of good old-fashioned mick bashing? It would make a nice change from the Muslim bashing. But what about all those kids who were raped by Anglican Priests? Don't they deserve the same sort of justice as the victims of Catholic Priests?

Cheers,

Tony

Tony Lavis, do you think that is a bit uncharitable, just a little.
I see, maybe I am wrong? a wide ranging inquiry in to all child sex offenses.
That must, certainly should include the Muslim creed and those who break our laws by weding 9 year olds here.
FGM here.
Would you have some not investigated.
TPP this is a different thing but will be so broad and so painful it will draw a line forever .
Your other problem is understood, my home is surrounded with such kids.
Australia should be shamed by the need for so many to be in care.
NSW puts cash first and yes failure is the likely result.

Tony Lavis, just how would a Priest really 'know' that a paedophile is truly sorry about what he has done?
The paedophile can go to any number of priests for confession after each 'transgression', so how are the priests to know this isn't the first time?

What absolute rubbish this confessional business is!
Of course Priests should not be above the law and should report paedophiles to police immediately.

The church's position on this is that if they reported these criminals, then the paedophiles wouldn't come to confession and receive the 'counseling' that Priests could give them! Yeah right. Like that really worked well over the years.

This isn't a witch hunt against the Catholics at all. It was reported by many welfare groups and victim support organizations that Catholic clergy and Catholic institutions and schools were responsible for the bulk of complaints by victims.
That's why I think this RC should have started with them...

Suseonline very good very true this fact must never be set aside.
Peoples trust in the priest has let repeat offenders ofend again.
And Children suffer.
Is it not under stood.
This RC in rightly targeting the worst of it CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Will be in the end better for that Church if it ends these crimes before the Church dies.

its boring to read the same same..but lets get over 'confesionals'
and get into the 'in confidence' secrets..client lawyer privledges.

its clear no priest in his right mind can absolve..any sin
if its not..'going and sinning no more'..[pedophiles..I HATE THAT WORD..that means simply child lover..and who dont love kids

anyhow these filth.. dont seek absolution..if anything its boasting..
any pennance done by deciete cannot gain absolution..child perverters dont believe in god...be they govt law union buddist jew or muslim..

to raise the issue of child brides is not about protecting kids
its name calling..spinning the destraction..['billies mummy lets him do it'..why cant you?

just because someone else is doing it
isnt relitive..unless their doing it here

anyhow we all know its not going to change anything
lawyers will allways defend the criminals..from justice
the only hope is..that those hurt by criminals..do their own justice...and expose the perverts..we got here..not elsewhere

fix our own perverts first..plantem in the ground..make the punnishment fit the crime

i go back to if there is no rule change
nothing will change...getting a cop..to repeatedly question the victim..then a lawyer to rape the victim in pre trial then trial then appeal process..thats the real crime...while all the time a docs minder..is teaching the kid he/she is helpless..!

recall that bbc pervert making fun of his victims who dared complain

those in power are scum..thats how they got into power.
all pervert's trial's must be by a jury..not fudggy judgies..keeping the perversions in house...the fish is rotten.

if your not angry..think why.

good men doing nuthin..means
they wernt ever good....let no man think themselves god...or think that god will forgive taking others innocents...but as is clear in this thread..its the organisations..[watchers..not there to protect..]..

ie the fox is in the hen house..
cause thats where he gets his kicks...his ammusements
[read victims..his food and his friends...birds of a feather flock us together.

pedophilia, like many horrendous crimes, suffers badly from trial by media, so getting a fair trial, which any non convicted criminal is entitled to, is ne on impossible now, made even worse by the growing popularity of social media sites.

So, even if the priests dob these rock spiders into the authorities, chances are they will be tried by the media, well before they face the courts. Hence, they will most likely get off.

Tony: “Priests also have a lot of discretion when it comes to penance: they can ask that the penitent submit themselves to the law as part of their penance.”

Wow, I didn’t know that. But the victims and the police and the people involved in relocating the priests weren’t in the confessional.

But yes any adults committing crimes all deserve the same thing, or I thought Aussie law said they did.

Belly: “TPP this is a different thing but will be so broad and so painful it will draw a line forever .”

Wait – what?

OUG: “the only hope is..that those hurt by criminals..do their own justice...and expose the perverts..we got here..not elsewhere”

Good point, it’s an opportunity right now for the victims to be heard. We find out next week what will be in the Commission... or how it is structured?

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/government-still-failing-children-in-care-public-advocate-20121114-29ble.html

“The Royal Commission into institutional sex abuse should be broadened to examine other forms of neglect and abuse of children in care, according to ACT Public Advocate Anita Phillips.”

I’d like it to be broadened but not if (like Poirot and R0bert suggest) it will be too big a bite to chew. Surely these commissions are set up in such a way to handle the biggest problems? And maybe a broader focus will stop the trial be media rehctub mentions.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/break-the-seal-of-the-confessional-or-go-to-prison-says-barry-ofarrell/story-e6freuy9-1226516940401
Meanwhile, Premier Barry O'Farrell, a Catholic, was criticised yesterday for saying he "struggled to understand, that if a priest confesses to another priest that he's been involved in paedophile activities that that information should not be brought to police".

Until August, the state government had the power to charge priests who refused to give up colleagues who admitted in confessionals to be paedophiles.

However, state Attorney-General Greg Smith, a devout Catholic, passed on that authority to the Director of Public Prosecutions.

Mr O'Farrell's spokesman said yesterday the government would not be taking back that power because the DPP was independent of government and therefore the appropriate body to make the decision.

NSW Opposition Leader John Robertson said Mr O'Farrell should have known priests could be forced to reveal the details of confessionals.

… now I’m more confused.

Sex Rings Reveal The Worst of the Power Elite
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/11/child-sex-rings-reveal-worst-of-power.html

how diabolical the controlling elite really are.

According to Missingkids.com, 800,000 children under the age of 18 go missing each year globally -- 2,185 per day. Their hotline received an average of 580 calls per day to this point in the last quarter of 2012 --

3.5 million calls since the organization's inception in 1984.
It is clearly an epidemic of staggering proportions.

When Fritz Springmeier and David Icke began talking 20 years ago about organized pedophile rings and mind-controlled sex slaves (often with overtly Satanic themes) within the highest levels of society, most readers met them with serious doubt or outright dismissal. We would be very unwise to dismiss their research now.

The Jimmy Savile scandal/it is embedded within Britain's BBC corporate media itself where they were forced to lamely issue an apology that the original Newsnight investigation into numerous claims of sex acts with children was dropped, all the while insisting that "there was not enough evidence to say whether sexual abuse or harassment at the corporation was 'endemic'".

David Icke certainly has a different take on it. According to Icke, Savile "was the child-supplying fixer for the rich and famous in politics, entertainment and royalty" and can be linked to a massive child abuse scandal in North Wales.

(Source) Icke's 1998 book The Biggest Secret details a seemingly unbelievable number of prominent U.S. and UK political leaders who centrally figure into these scandals.

Icke details how Savile is indicative
not of a single evil person using their position of power to destroy innocence..but of systematic abuse.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Gerald_Sandusky_Sexual_Abuse_Findings_of_Grand_Jury.png/800px-Gerald_Sandusky_Sexual_Abuse_Findings_of_Grand_Jury.png

TPP this is what I meant.
This country I love, has for generations, failed its children in Church care and others.
This Royal Commission will take nothing less than 2 years, in my view left to run its course more than three.
Just as in Holland America and Ireland, its results will make us cry.
And never be forgotten.
It will take more generations, before your second point, one I am very much aware of, is investigated.
Governments of all colors are never short of white wash.
Right now, if you wanted to I could take you to children in the new care system who are badly miss used.
You know as I do getting action is near an impossibility.

Oh gotchya Belly, I just live in hope. Even I can’t get help to stop abuse from the system in place. You get punished if you complain about decisions that hurt children and that punishment can hurt even more children you care about. As always I feel trapped.

I see some other things being rolled out from Govt while this story of the Royal Commission has top billing. Deciding before birth to take peoples children if drugs, DV or alcohol are involved. So while saying the children are not safe in care and all providers need investigating we see them find reasons to make it easier to take more children.

OUG you just went global, I can’t begin to grasp all that yet.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/imported-priests-pose-risk-church-abuse-inquiry-told-20121109-293ka.html
The link is the peak of a very big very ugly ice berg.
Do not ignore it click the link, read it, shudder as I did.
Know real children who grew in to damaged adults are involved.
Know many died at their own hands.
Know God said *Suffer the little Children to come to me*
Not WHO come to me.

Gawd, some Bunnings Advert went bezerk on me.

I read the link Belly, it’s horrible.

Salvation Army is setting up a new NSW NGO now to take young people from DoCS. The Catholic Church has been around forever being handed our little Aussies.

I didn’t understand for a long time why the older victims didn’t help put a stop to new victims being created but I think I do get it now. It’s expecting too much from them after all they have been through and continue to go through.

apparently there is to be a consultation[7 day]..to frame 'the rules
so i want to toss a few out there

first its important to put things on permanent record
not keep the findings secret..so item one is a daily searchable transcript[so we know its on the public record.

next i feel establish the record..of all complainants /daily

begin the day with mention of names [before todays justiice
named/known..vicytims..who complain about other named names,before an authoritive court of record.[on the public record..cause we are sick of secrets.!

these 'names initially held back from the public record/online
become public ..on the transcript..once their evidence sworn signed statements..enter the record proper..of the commision..

its the openess..and availability of the names..so others can watch/witness the right thing being done in real time...without secrets..names must be named..[or fully exposed to those whjo may have been affected..

ie all official inquiry..must send off a form letter.
namingthe now exposed vile person..so other victims know[i hate secrets..victims are only told after[thats a huge wrong.

what i want to see
is people able to be going there being heard..asp[that day!..if only for the base facts..allready witnessed and testified in writing
not some vetting service..that keeps people from getting heard!

direct one to one..complain/publicy..
judge hearing orders the issue investigated..confirmed ratified..

then if validated..call back the victim..to formerlise..more detail
into the official PUBLIC written record..on line.
then get back to recording the replies...or whatever.