Did more harm than good in my case.

I think you have to be lucky really. Or maybe disposed to that kind of manipulation. There are many variables, and really who is to say whether some people are only really happy when they're miserable or unstable. The idea seems to me to be to make people more acceptable for those around them.

I don't think you should discount that you may well have ended up being in just the same place without the intervention sung wu. Half the journey was the decision to change, the other half was the routine enforced by the regular visits. You could have likely done the same sitting in a park talking to yourself.

Exercise is good squeers.

Suze,

'Even if they did, if the drugs helped them to restore themselves to a more 'normal' state, then where is the harm in that? '

What's normal?

I think there is a danger these days of eradicating different personalities. It's certainly the age of the extrovert for a start. Introverts are treated like they have some kind of a deficiency. A lot of people getting therapy to fit in with current trends.

There's nothing wrong with someone who lacks ambition, and doesn't like people all that much, and doesn't sing 'you're worth it!'.

The elephant in the room is that just perhaps, there is nothing mentally abnormal with anyone, it's society that has the problem.

I especially think men's traditional way of dealing with their issues are just as valid as women's traditional heart-churning navel gazing touch feely neuroticism.

Too many 'professionals' I believe attempt to break down the traditional male coping mechanisms and replace them with an ill-fitting foreign (female-orientated) substitute.

I'm not sure about any of this. My wife is a councilor, & I often hear her discussing with others the methods she has used with people to manipulate them, for their benefit.

I am sure this has worked in many situations, but in others it has failed. Often I believe it has failed because the subject can see the attempted manipulation being applied, & either reacts badly, or is offended. It probably works much better in instances such as o sungs, where they are actively seeking help.

Personally I prefer a good rant, [& OLO is a good place for that], & a bit of shouting, even if only at the moon. This always leaves me nicely relaxed, although it may not do all that much for those near by.

Everything said on this particular thread has merit I reckon. The desire to change is very important too. Without that desire, I think in my case, I would've failed miserably.

It's often a case of not being able to see the 'wood for the trees' sort of thing. Professional guidance tends to keep you on track, I found.

One particular component we did, was called the 'Nightmare group'. Apparently, most Vets with PTSD tend to have frequent nightmares ?

We were taught how to deal with them. And in my own case, I was plagued with the bloody things. Firstly they showed us, how to reduce their frequency. And secondly, how to reduce the intensity of the lousy things. There were no drugs prescribed, in order to aid us in overcoming these nightmares.

Without receiving expert professional help, there's no way in hell, I'd know how to deal with them. I'm so very very grateful, I really am, these terrific people persevered with me.

I believe now, that I've managed to thoroughly bore you all, to such an extent, I can already hear the zzzzzzzz's being emitted. And for that, I'm really very sorry.

In conclusion, all that remains to be said - my motive for exploring this delicate subject, is where possible, prevent yet another Vet. from suicide.

If the VC and NVA couldn't do the job, than neither should you. Simple as that.

Houellebecq, feeling 'normal' is how you feel when you have your life under relative control. At least, it is to me.

Anyone who has only negative feelings about mental health issues has never had , or known anyone with, a serious mental health disorder.
Men suffer these disorders just as much as women, so there is nothing to be gained by making it a gender issue.

I sincerely hope you never find out what it feels like.

i figure reality is what it is..fodder for dreams..,but lets here the DRUG FREE methods..in your next post..i suspect its not setting up key behaviuours..and avoiding drinking or other drugs

like some mantra mindfull meditation
or vivid dreaming..my favourite dream fix

but you/we need to go further..avoidance..if the channle seven choper doers things to your head..WELL GOVT SHOWED/trained us how to 'fix that!

blow it up..send in a recon mission
torture and kill anyone in the 'target area'
it all satuffs up your mind..SUPRESS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO

and kill that gook ...*now
you cant come back from something like that..!

without stopping thought alltogether..and thats what dreams are
if you dont want dreams..talk to yourself..in a loving way

envision it as your a tv..what your mind think's
attracts the watchers,..who love the way you think

or post..egsactly what they want you to say

or close enough..i heard of this wonan..CELIBATE..for 50 years
because she was told..if she was good..she would get some cash payment

this normal lady..was completly deluded..but normal..all her life
till the day she went to the bank to ask why here cash..isnt in her account..

she self hypnotised her whole life away
as we all do

so tell me
did she have bad dreams

how do you who get them..make them go away
i love dreams..as it proves im not alone...no thats crazey stuff....right?

I had a bit more in mind than just exercise. The point is we're sophisticated apes and our social/cultural burden takes us out of our bodily selves and into the chaotic, symbolic realm of competing sensibilities, anxieties and neuroses. Indeed to such a degree that we take it, idealism, as reality and forget how to be animals. Quieting the mind and devoting time to the body and its needs is what I mean. Not in a self-conscious way.
But gotta run..