All of us have our fair share of troubles. So, when things become just too tough to bear, should we then seek some help, help of a medical kind ? If so, which is best ?

In some cases our GP will refer us for Psychiatric assessment and subsequent therapy. In the hope a better skilled clinician will provide more specialist care that will assist us to deal with our problems more effectively.

How many of us have sought such (radical) treatment ? I have for one.

Some years ago, I was referred to the Vietnam Veterans Counselling Service (VVCS), ostensibily for counselling ! I attended there a couple of times a month, for an hour, for nearly two years. It was a Veteran specific group. We were a small batch of about five or six blokes at any one time.

While there, it was determined that I attend the 'Live In' PTSD programme, at the Repatriation Hospital, funded by the Department of Veterans' Affairs.

I managed to get sufficient sick leave from a compassionate and sympathetic police department. There were many Veterans in the job at that time.

Mainly, the medico's were a cross section of Psychiatrists, Psychologists, Social Workers and a few other specialist Doctors, including a Pharmacist. The programme was for a six weeks duration, with weekly follow-up's for another six weeks, as out-patients.

The benefits I received, were truly marvellous. I was taught so much about how to deal with my own personal issues, aggression, anger, drinking, intolerance, leading a healthier life-style etc. etc. But then, I'm a very boring person, so enough.

My message... If you have problems, problems of a kind, that seem to swamp or overwhelm you totally. Seek help.

It's no longer macho or overtly masculine, to remain mute and stoic. Stoicism is merely stupidity. In the coppers we had all manner of epithets for Psychiatrists - 'trick cyclists' etc etc etc. ?

For me at least, I reckon they're pretty good ! Give 'em a go if your need it ?

Psychiatry is little more than a source of comfort, empathy and motivation, yet it's extremely effective. The human engagement of non-predatory-practitioners is infinitely better for the depressed and disaffected than impersonal drugs. The analysand soon comes to realise that there is no "normal" and that it's a struggle for all of us to attain a "healthy" state of mind.
I don't think we should denigrate stoicism though, which has its place. For me the best cure is an old one--exercising the body. Putting the body through its paces, taking the focus off the mind--which so readily obsesses--is liberating and exhilarating.
The cultured mind is as much a curse as a source of fascination.

yes if you got a problem..SEEK HELP
but we are EXPERT at denial..deneying we even..'have..a problem'

YET>>we are the best position to judge..things like SELF harm
yet the decision as to what is best..FOR you ..to do for you..THATS TAKEN*..from you..immediatly

often cruelly hurtfully COMPLETLY
with every thing you do..being looked at as SYMPTOM
when in the end..its weighted against that as communicated,,by the victim

there is a simple rule..if they hurt other..
police have authority to act..to protect potential victim..or damage to assets..not just poor busy bodies/sensatives complaining/complaint

often redacted before trial

or family disputes..or stealing kids
you know if one member has a problem..THE WHOLE FAMILY needs the remedy..[there is no cure*..at best half way..or someone is taking away more than they give.

O sung WU, what a wonderful post.

You are a brave man to admit you needed help and you went out and sorted out some help for yourself.

If more men would just read stories like yours and gain the inspiration to seek help for their mental health issues, then I am sure their world would be a better place.

I too sought help as you did, and am glad to say I received excellent care and am now much happier.

Thank you for your story.

Cheers,
Suse.

its funny how the topic reminds me of an advert i saw on tv yesterday

blah blah blahh..see your family docter
in the backgound..distress..the advert is advising people..to go give docters income
so docters can sell the product left by the rep
[and get a nice bonus kickback from big pharma..getting billions of govt subsidy

adverse reactions to perscribed drug..the cause of 1 in 100 hospitalisations..1 in ten resulting in death

adverse reactions..and big legal drug dealers
advertising go to the quack..buy our subsidised by govt drug

just like the tamiflue scam..that needed the un PLUTOCRATS>>declaring a pandemic,..and govt contracts globally went live

we got wharehouse of expired poisen..tamillflew..in govt storage
costing billions globally..and phychiatry is even lower..

for the good it does..it does just as much bad or worse
old people druged into a passive zombie state

yeah a drug war on a plant
its great mate

78%//of police WORK*..is booze related
percribed legalised halusinatory drugs no worry
give a pill.. to your hyper active kid..

ie acid.
like the hippy girls used on the civilised hippy boys
PERSCFRIBED..by a docter..by symptom signifying a bias hate fear or peer based past judgments..that sought to limit lifes infinate variability...

conformity
in time you will all do as your told
or we will docile you..civil ise you..via your water
food drink airs an senses..

and make you cool..by spraying toxic aluminium
or flueride..or mercurised silver metal into your soft tissue..to maske you docile feel tired get sick..[the last 65 pure tassmanian ab-ororigonal..were genocided..in one generation..overr seen by just 6 docters

medicin/laws..we will lord it over you
with spin..poor media substandard education expensive acces to info..communication with TRUE peers..

govt represents..who

by wehat right does govt take away a mans freedumbs
if he is hurting no one and no thing

..just let them be..protect them..
like god wants us to protect our broithers..the beasts

no victim..no crime

OUG, what are you on about.?

Did anyone above mention taking drugs?
Even if they did, if the drugs helped them to restore themselves to a more 'normal' state, then where is the harm in that?

Have you ever taken antibiotics?
If you have, then you can thank the scientists for developing these medicines that have saved millions of lives.
The same can be said for the mental health medications that have made such a difference to so many people.

If you have never suffered from a serious mental health issue then you really have no idea...

Hi there SQUEERS...

I totally agree with what you say in relation to physical exercise, as an adjunct treatment accompaniment to other forms of therapy. At the Repat, they encouraged us all, to either take up a form of exercise, or expand what physical activity we were already undertaking.

All were on several types of 'anti' this and that tablets. Many carried several rather onerous side effects, the worst of which for us at least (all men), was impotence. And truth be known, most of us...no ALL of us, were not that great at being 'good' husbands anyway.

So, by suffering impotence for awhile, if at the end of it all; our lousy attitudes to life, dreadful personalities, and sustained moods...made us better men, then hopefully it might follow, we'd become better husbands ? And that can't be all that bad eh ?

Hello there ONE UNDER GOD...

Everything you say appears (prima facia), to be couched in metaphors.

I understand and accept, over time you've suffered at the hands of, government bureaucracy and the law, per se.

Your comments and assertions, that not only the mentally affected person, rather their entire family, should have access to appropriate counselling is, in my humble opinion correct.

One without the other seems pointless. Particular when the unwell person's behaviour or other symptoms, can deleteriously impact on other members of the family. Consequently, causing considerable dislocation to the family unit.

And as you suggest O U G, the family as a whole should be included in at least (part) of the counselling process. Otherwise the efficacy of the therapy sessions could well be negatively compromised.

Good afternoon to you, SUSEONLINE...

I'll pay you the thousand dollars later ! Seriously, your contribution was one of the nicest I've ever received on the Forum. I'm much more accustomed to receiving a resounding thrashing (generally well deserved), than your kind words of support.

And I do agree, with what you say about seeking help and if necessary medication, to relieve those awful days where that ol' 'Black Dog' stalks us unabatingly and ceaselessly, to a point where your only wish is to hide under a rock...forever. It's really terribly.

Being a bloke, remaining stoic, a regular tough guy, and trying to hold a marriage together, AND hold your job in the coppers...........?

Walking about the place full of hate, aggression, presenting as a totally misanthropic person, uncaring, where your language is much like a sewer, your behaviour even worse ? Yet it's you that's supposed to 'keep the peace', protect the weak, the innocent, the young and old ? Sure it all works for awhile, Suse ?

Then, comes your Divorce. Loss of respect. Not my fault you know, it was the war ? The war, be damned. Sure, the war may've have been the catalyst, but the real blame - that belongs squarely on my own shoulders, I'm afraid.

You need expert help, to assist you to identify what causes the nightmares and all the other anti-social behaviour(s) in which you've actively engaged over the years.

Now I've retired from the police force. I've remarried, rejoined the human race (not entirely sure if the 'human race' will accept me though ?), and I'm motoring along pretty well now, thank you.

All because of the expert help, compassion and the immense kindness, I've been most fortunate enough to have received. From so many of the Doctor's, Psych.Nurses, Social Workers, all of which, were at the Repatriation General Hospital. God bless em' all !

Thank you once again, SUSEONLINE.

OUG, wow,don't like the doc's huh. You got a hell of a mind going on up there, very entertaining and insightful.

i feel sorow if metaophores is presumed
i quote raw numbers..big pharma subsidy..IS in billions tens of billions EACH year..over time its trillions..especially globally..

so meds fix some people..by far more could be fixed..by negating trauma events..like wars..and dont say thats not possable..i met many vets in and after army service..no opne is talking aboput the suicide rates for vets..buts its one per hour

serving or retired..the burden on our protectors is huge
[i did teq support at kangeroo 2 32 signapories died..just practicing..for war..on our shore..

no trauma here..i was still in shock..getting ready to go to my second job..when mr smyth and western..did the nasty..to me and opend my eyes

but since then i been watching the numbers
and most of what i say is based on real facts

PROZAC ALONE*..has kiled 13,000
this still nox..makes zombies..automotons..that go on rampages

DRUGS..NO DRUGS>>FIX ISSUES people may have
with their mindset versus the reality..

join police tyo help people
job drive around wattching a computer..being here at the right time
but making money in between..fines that dont fix the real issue..OVERZEALOUS GOVT REVENUE RAISING*

heck dont you notice the price ioncreases from govt stuff?

the things we expect our SERVERS, to do is enough..for then to be doing

*without revuenue raising,police,policing policy..
or high visability in auto policing by random computer number plate search..its pathetic..

thus one in 4 of your new recruits last less than the second year
we expect the young to do our dirty work..when WE KNOW ITS GOING TO STUFF THEM UP FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES>>

we KNOW IT*

so lets get MATURE OLD PEOPLE..,doing it
who have had a lifetime lived..to prepare*

dont send in young thugs/guns
send in old hippies and some books

You might have something there OUG.
During my years as a community nurse I have seen so much suffering in Vets and their families.

Let's send in olderguys who are more mature and more settled in their civilian lives before they have to take on the horrors of war.

Even better, let's send in the politicians and old military personnel who have decided to ok the war in the first place!
We can only dream...

O sung WU, you are very welcome :)

Cheers,
Suse

Did more harm than good in my case.

I think you have to be lucky really. Or maybe disposed to that kind of manipulation. There are many variables, and really who is to say whether some people are only really happy when they're miserable or unstable. The idea seems to me to be to make people more acceptable for those around them.

I don't think you should discount that you may well have ended up being in just the same place without the intervention sung wu. Half the journey was the decision to change, the other half was the routine enforced by the regular visits. You could have likely done the same sitting in a park talking to yourself.

Exercise is good squeers.

Suze,

'Even if they did, if the drugs helped them to restore themselves to a more 'normal' state, then where is the harm in that? '

What's normal?

I think there is a danger these days of eradicating different personalities. It's certainly the age of the extrovert for a start. Introverts are treated like they have some kind of a deficiency. A lot of people getting therapy to fit in with current trends.

There's nothing wrong with someone who lacks ambition, and doesn't like people all that much, and doesn't sing 'you're worth it!'.

The elephant in the room is that just perhaps, there is nothing mentally abnormal with anyone, it's society that has the problem.

I especially think men's traditional way of dealing with their issues are just as valid as women's traditional heart-churning navel gazing touch feely neuroticism.

Too many 'professionals' I believe attempt to break down the traditional male coping mechanisms and replace them with an ill-fitting foreign (female-orientated) substitute.

I'm not sure about any of this. My wife is a councilor, & I often hear her discussing with others the methods she has used with people to manipulate them, for their benefit.

I am sure this has worked in many situations, but in others it has failed. Often I believe it has failed because the subject can see the attempted manipulation being applied, & either reacts badly, or is offended. It probably works much better in instances such as o sungs, where they are actively seeking help.

Personally I prefer a good rant, [& OLO is a good place for that], & a bit of shouting, even if only at the moon. This always leaves me nicely relaxed, although it may not do all that much for those near by.

Everything said on this particular thread has merit I reckon. The desire to change is very important too. Without that desire, I think in my case, I would've failed miserably.

It's often a case of not being able to see the 'wood for the trees' sort of thing. Professional guidance tends to keep you on track, I found.

One particular component we did, was called the 'Nightmare group'. Apparently, most Vets with PTSD tend to have frequent nightmares ?

We were taught how to deal with them. And in my own case, I was plagued with the bloody things. Firstly they showed us, how to reduce their frequency. And secondly, how to reduce the intensity of the lousy things. There were no drugs prescribed, in order to aid us in overcoming these nightmares.

Without receiving expert professional help, there's no way in hell, I'd know how to deal with them. I'm so very very grateful, I really am, these terrific people persevered with me.

I believe now, that I've managed to thoroughly bore you all, to such an extent, I can already hear the zzzzzzzz's being emitted. And for that, I'm really very sorry.

In conclusion, all that remains to be said - my motive for exploring this delicate subject, is where possible, prevent yet another Vet. from suicide.

If the VC and NVA couldn't do the job, than neither should you. Simple as that.

Houellebecq, feeling 'normal' is how you feel when you have your life under relative control. At least, it is to me.

Anyone who has only negative feelings about mental health issues has never had , or known anyone with, a serious mental health disorder.
Men suffer these disorders just as much as women, so there is nothing to be gained by making it a gender issue.

I sincerely hope you never find out what it feels like.

i figure reality is what it is..fodder for dreams..,but lets here the DRUG FREE methods..in your next post..i suspect its not setting up key behaviuours..and avoiding drinking or other drugs

like some mantra mindfull meditation
or vivid dreaming..my favourite dream fix

but you/we need to go further..avoidance..if the channle seven choper doers things to your head..WELL GOVT SHOWED/trained us how to 'fix that!

blow it up..send in a recon mission
torture and kill anyone in the 'target area'
it all satuffs up your mind..SUPRESS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO

and kill that gook ...*now
you cant come back from something like that..!

without stopping thought alltogether..and thats what dreams are
if you dont want dreams..talk to yourself..in a loving way

envision it as your a tv..what your mind think's
attracts the watchers,..who love the way you think

or post..egsactly what they want you to say

or close enough..i heard of this wonan..CELIBATE..for 50 years
because she was told..if she was good..she would get some cash payment

this normal lady..was completly deluded..but normal..all her life
till the day she went to the bank to ask why here cash..isnt in her account..

she self hypnotised her whole life away
as we all do

so tell me
did she have bad dreams

how do you who get them..make them go away
i love dreams..as it proves im not alone...no thats crazey stuff....right?

I had a bit more in mind than just exercise. The point is we're sophisticated apes and our social/cultural burden takes us out of our bodily selves and into the chaotic, symbolic realm of competing sensibilities, anxieties and neuroses. Indeed to such a degree that we take it, idealism, as reality and forget how to be animals. Quieting the mind and devoting time to the body and its needs is what I mean. Not in a self-conscious way.
But gotta run..

sqe..esq/quote..""I had a bit more in mind than just exercise.""

i feel its important..to think..
not mindlessly repeat say a mantra..that dulls the mind distracts..from the obsessive thought..which by its nature is 'obsessing',..thus not listening..

so matra's work..but if its fruit is 'nuthingness'
thats just another drug..that DELAYS FACING THE CHANGE..has changed things..irreversably..you cant undo mind rape..thus must rationalise..know why..not chant the mind into nuthingness..

in the end we must face our fears
and face the biggest fear is we didnt do good enough
get over it...ONLY GOD IS PERFECT..and even jesus got many things wrong

like think what he could do on youtube
or on twitter..

instead govts possably got the poor begger locked up or drugged into zombiesm..like sharon..not the logest dead person kept aloive in a coma..but the one that will shortly have its biggest affect

but

say the details..you get locked up
till you pass for normal...

WHAT IS NORMAL..i NEVER hurt anyone
i wall away rather rthan fight..turned my che'ek..so many times im not sure where my nose is pointing me to this time..

yet nuthingness plus adverse reactions
just to avoid thinking..?

PLEASE*

do think again

""The point is we're sophisticated apes and our social/cultural burden takes us out of our bodily selves and into the chaotic, symbolic realm of competing sensibilities, anxieties and neuroses.""

yep
but also we KNOW..watching a muder movie..JUST before bad
MEANS..the mkind is in shock..as the dreams reveal..but some love that feeling

""Indeed to such a degree that we take it, idealism,as reality""

or silly standards like a hero/idol/guide/program paryy person
that in the end has feet of clay..just like us

we must be our own hero
our own cheer squad..THAT VOICE IS his*voice

""and forget how to be animals.""

REMEMBERING..we ARE our animal brothers keepers

""Quieting the mind and devoting time to the body""

the sum total of all life living its being..that in time..we all unite..atone via atonement...AT-ONE-meant

come together as one..not for us living
but him sustaining us all our living,,from within

natures natural nurture
sustaining life..via mather natures nurture
[not survival of fittest..more love that hate in naturs nurture

all life begat of the father
sustained by the father light..that living logicly chose love

""and its needs is what I mean.
Not in a self-conscious way.""

yes that..*we do*..for the least
we do to the most..

he that is least
is yet greater..than the baptiser..ye may enterain angels unaware

BUT NEVER TELL NO ONE!

Oh if only you knew Suze.

'Anyone who has only negative feelings about mental health issues has never had , or known anyone with, a serious mental health disorder.'

What a supremely arrogant generalization. Does seeing a handful of different mental health practitioners at various stages in one 's life, being medicated and even hospitalized at one stage, count in your books. You can f8ck right off.

'Men suffer these disorders just as much as women, so there is nothing to be gained by making it a gender issue.'

Way to miss the point completely. It's about the supposed treatment, not the incidence of mental health problems.

Most 'therapy' is based on talking and open emoting and this is harmonious with what we have come to learn to be the nature of the female response to stress and loss but runs counter to the masculine path.

I find it naive in the extreme for a nurse to think gender is irelevant in mental health.

http://thevarsity.ca/2012/06/07/on-gender-bias-in-our-approach-to-mental-illness/

http://www.genderbias.net/docs/resources/guideline/Gender%20differences%20in%20mental%20health.pdf

"Most therapy is based on talking and openly emoting..."

Actually that is interesting. A friends daughter had a bit of trouble in her pre-teen years due to a health condition and ended up at a facility to help her back on track. This child was encouraged to talk openly about her fears by the staff who were caring for her. Time dragged on and eager to get back home and to her normal life, she began to notice that every time she was openly emotive, she seemed to be punished in some way. Eventually, she worked out that she should clam up and not let her fears out.

They sent her home two weeks later

Let's face it, everyone who doesn't think and act like 'us' is borderline personality disordered… And for many of them that line is very, very wide.

What's more to the point is whether their coping strategy – whatever that is, from substances to religion – is a help or a hindrance to them and not harming other people.

If they have sufficient self-awareness to realise the distinctions and make adjustments in their own self interests… Good. If they lack the self-awareness, the ability, the resources, the family and friends to assist, then it's much more complicated and unlikely to be resolved.

However… Having witnessed a close relative's week-long paranoid delirium caused by infections and drug treatment related to Cholangiocarcinoma – sometimes there is no realistic self-awareness and professional and third-party intervention and treatment is the only solution.

My point I suppose is – whatever works.

It's just that we are not always effective at self-diagnosis and treatment.

(This probably includes those who join OLO only to try to make others as miserable as they are.)

Houlebecke, you aren't happy unless you can be nasty to someone are you, especially women
I won't be f8ing off anytime soon, sorry!

My own personal thoughts and experience are no more important than yours, of course.

I am only drawing on 30 years experience as a registered nurse, and my own personal experiences with mental health problems, but I am well aware I could be wrong.
Mental health is such a difficult area to work in, and is not my favorite , mainly because of the aggression.

Have a happy day now won't you?

The healthy, well-adjusted apes are the most deluded of all.
My favourite piece of animation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9cWkUhZ8n4

Psychiatric Treatment - Does it work ? Is it an effective treatment ?
Only for the Psychiatrists.

G'day INDIVIDUAL...

Yeah, you may well be right ! I can only speak on my own behalf, that's all.

I reckon there'd be millions out there, who wouldn't give a toss, about them (psychiatrist), or their therapy(ies).

Thank you to everyone who were sufficiently motivated to put a view, or share an opinion. A tough topic for some, a joke for others.

Nevertheless, thank you all.

To ONE UNDER GOD...

G'day Mate -

I believe you could (expertly) recount and narrate to us all, such a lot by way of facts, specific data and general information that deals execlusively with issues of government malfeasance, as well as police insensitivity even ignorance.

Previously, I've indicated how sorry I am for what injustices have been occasioned to you and yours, whenever you found it necessary to deal with any of the above.

Being an ex copper, I naturally fall into that target group of your exasperation even wrath. All I can say to you OUG, not every copper is necessarily 'tarred' with the same brush.

It's that small majority, that gives all police a bad name.

Police by virtue of the job, need to occasionally, play 'hard ball' with some people, just a few fortunately. Otherwise the real 'heavies' would walk all over us, and in doing so, walk all over the community as a whole. I'm sure you recognise that ?

Take care of yourself ONE UNDER GOD, and I hope we can speak again soon.

Cheers.

yes it is as it is
thanks for talking..though i was looking forward..to the drug free remedy/meditaion..

i only learned the difference recently
like phychiatrysts..can issue medication
phycologist cant..so that 'drugfree' musy be via phycologist

but if we wish to keep secrets thats fine
i met a lot of good cops..your saying i say all bad is so wrong
i said so many positive things..even thried to join..but was in hindsight glad i was rejected.

i know im being pushy..but im hoping some good comes from all the garbage police heaped on so many..but not white collar

that reveals a level of complicity..your friends revenue raise
steal value..not add values

anyhoe nuthing personal
you got the gun..so to speak..

'espri de gore
and all that..but thats not their fault

not sure you want to know of this stuff i come accross

but here goes

File Attachment:
File Name: Jane-Doe-v-TPSB-1998-SCJ.pdf
File Size: 153 KB
Jane Doe is raped after Toronto police fail to warn her that a serial rapist, later to be known as the “balcony rapist”, was targeting women in a specific neighbourhood. Decision is a precedent setting case for two reasons. Firstly, court finds police breached s. 15 charter rights of Jane Doe and discriminated against her based on gender. Police did not act in accordance with their statutory duty to project the public from criminal activity and they carried out their duty in a manner that discriminated based on gender. Police believed rape myths. Police “adopted a policy not to warn her because of a stereotypical discriminatory belief that as a woman she and others like her would become hysterical and panic and scare off an attacker, among others” (Par 192) Secondly, the court held that liability of the police extends to victims of crime. Police failed in their duty of care to protect Jane Doe. Police do not have a general duty to all victims of crime, but there is sufficient proximity of police to Jane Doe. Police “were aware of a specific threat or risk to a specific group of women and they did nothing to warn those women of the danger they were in, nor did they take any measures to protect them.” (par 162) Although a lower court decision, the essential findings of the case have been upheld by higher courts including the Supreme Court in the Hill v Hamilton Police case (para 125-135).

File Attachment:
File Name: Hill-v-Hamilton-Wentworth-Regiional-Police-Services-Board-SCC-2007.pdf
File Size: 251 KB

http://public.worldfreemansociety.org/media/kunena/attachments/337/Hill-v-Hamilton-Wentworth-Regiional-Police-Services-Board-SCC-2007.pdf

This case finally establishes that police across Canada can be sued for negligent investigation. Prior to this decision, some provinces had not allowed actions against police for negligence.

Police conduct during an investigation should be measured against the standard of how a reasonable officer in like circumstances would have acted. The standard of care of a reasonable police officer in similar circumstances should be applied in a manner that gives due recognition to the discretion inherent in police investigation.

This standard is flexible, covers all aspects of investigatory police work, and is reinforced by the nature and importance of police investigation.

In this case, considering practices at the time, police are found to have meets the standard of a reasonable officer in similar circumstances.

Good evening to you, ONE UNDER GOD...

Wow, you've managed to clearly define the primary philosophy even the ideology of general policing per se '...the protection of life...' !

This Canadian judgement, though compelling reading in terms of the 'ratio decidendi', to my knowledge, it's not binding in terms of the Oz police, 'duty of care necessity', that I'm aware of at least ?

There are demands imposed on all police, in terms of a general requirement for the diligent and assiduous investigation of crime.

Nor, in all my years in the job, do I have any specific knowledge associated with a member who's had to deal, with such an allegation pursuant to - The general 'dereliction and negligence of duty', by a member.

The material that you've kindly sent me, makes for a thoroughly good read, O U G.

I do however, understand why you've seen fit to pass it on for my pursual, and I thank you very much for that. And I'm sure we could discuss elements of the 'ratio' ad infinitum, and probably go round in circles.

So, O U G, I might just leave it at that, as I'm not entirely sure what 'grounds' I'm on, in this particular matter. But I do thank you nevertheless, once again.

I believe (from what you've told me herein, and in other threads) you have suffered at the hands of either 'lazy' police, or police who've neither understood, and if they have, declined to act on that information. In relation to a matter(s), that you've previously brought to their attention, requiring at least, a thorough enquiry or investigation.

At this point O U G, I'll bid you good night. Take it easy, OK !

the grounds we are on is opinion..public opinion
i love that your able allowed to think for your self..this give me hope..

i will relay your reply to my ex forum..if i return
your inputs would be great on posts like this one
http://public.worldfreemansociety.org/index.php/forum/43-general-discussion/109240-on-against-in-the-public-record

a debate of what is the difference between for and on 'the record'

in the future our various guises../persona's
become more like our inner spiritual being
then the lion will lie with the lamb

thats where im trying to get 2
i feel we do this by being honest..no bull

look we both hate criminals..its just govt is criminaling KIDS..
under the lie of/BY..deeming a plant a drug..as justice staples himself said

''how absurd a law
that makes a plant a crime''..
[read genesis..FIRST page..gen 1;29

""BE-HOLD I GIVE YOU..every seed bearing herb"
yet perfectly good xtians,,IGNORE GODS WORDS..and bust kids experimenting..not bankers looting..we are al being ripped off

jesus called for serrvice to brother
not money changers..yet there they are..everytime our leaders meet

the leaders..the people
and keeping us appart..the thin blue line...

lol excuse me thick black back line backers
/mindlessly preventing the peoples WILL*..[you know for every letter..100 wanted to send..but didnt

ditto protests..once we get advance knowledge..that together
we have a hope to ccvhange insane actions of govt..signing away rights..LEGISLATING commerce..mate your caught up in it as much as we

act as intermediatry between the heads,
find a middle path..how do you KNOW*..them body gaurds are there to protect the [president..not hold hostage fame plus their family?

you dont yopu presume
heck on the streets..
of the obvious homeless..EVERYONE I MET..had been molesterd as a child

STATISTICLY one in 4 kids get molesterd
to me bringing a child[any innocent..into adulthood awarnessness..BEFORE their time..is criminal..

but even there rape
and kiddy fiddling..are sources/resources
true crims..get deals..and affectivly get off..and into the system

and 5 more kids are criminalised for life
by lie..

by those..who would have known better

had they listened more?

Hi there ONE UNDER GOD...

Gee wiz, you've handed me a curly one by asking me to provide you with the legal delineation, or interpretation of - 'on the record', and 'in the record' ?

Also, we are way off the Topic also, ONE UNDER GOD. I reckon you'll get me shot by the Moderator's ? And I'm far too old to be taken out by a bullet now ?

Anyway, looking at the above issue, 'in or on the record' - in relation to evidence, something recorded is always reduced to 'transcription' of that recording, whether or not that recording is presented (tendered) as the 'best evidence' to the court.

To try to answer your question (I'm probably in error). Where the meaning of that recording is clear, interpretation will be unnecessary. Thus, extrinsic evidence will be inadmissible, (that's the 'recording' issue to which your colleague has referred).

However where the meaning of a document (the actual transcription) is obscure, extrinsic evidence (the recording) to aid in it's interprtation, will often be admissible - there is a judgement somewhere on this issue, O U G .

I'd respectfully suggest, your friends on that former Site to which you've referred, are probably putting too fine a point on interpretation, and in doing so, arguing the inarguable ?

Perhaps also, they should rely on the 'Golden Rule' of 'Statutory Interpretation'. Or, look at the true intention of the law makers (parliament) when they drafted the legislation, rather than getting bogged down in mere words alone.

There is legislation provided specifically on Interpretation. And if my memory serves me well, it's titled, the 'Acts Interpretation Act 1901 (Cth)'. I can't recall many other details, other then it's legislation, used by legal practitioners and ors, to assist in interpreting specific Commonwealth Legislation.

I sincerely hope this helps O U G ? I should also remind you, my legal knowledge is now somewhat dulled by the passages of time, regrettably.

As always, take care.

Cheers.

the forum is down..
but i posted a link..on the wall*

thanks for clarifying..
]silent witness is my name there after they banned one under god
its amasing how 'freemen..yet found reason to delete my posts so often

see you know as i know..[or maybe im wrong
the crown..isnt her majesty..but the legislative arm of governance

i think langauge is so inportant..that when we talk of standing in court..this MEANS..your a personal injured part..or got a contract default injury claim

courts are there to remedy a finantal sccounting
where damages have occured..its so importasnt we access just grounds and at moment..its hard to know the lion from the lamb..cause their both acting like sheep

anyhow thanks for the feedback..and dont sweat on our moderators
after all the topic began with phyc..and one of us is delusional

and i know the money is on its being me
but mate i been rejected by lies all my life
i asked..for help..all they will give is perscribed meds or booze

booze killed my father
and all drugs have 'adverse reaction..ESPECIALLY where some mug can make cash*..[we all try to sort a path through peace..and being clear

or as clear as these times will allow
any how who the lie on who the laaaaamb..i rekon we both got a bit of

the word is mongrel..but in a loving way of a mate
poiunmting 3 fingers back at self,,

till we know what truth
really acts feels/looks like..we cant even comprehend what the other is saying[my writting is unclear because its not clear

but if you do a thing via fear or lie
even if its the right thing..its root is still a lie

i feel religious zealots have subverted both crown/pope
to loot the peons..by sending out the tax collecter..to catch the drunk cashed up RESPONSABLE proffitable workers

who cant take a day off to find out the lie
no injury no broken contract, no lawfull reason to act..UNLESS REAL AND PRESENT PUBLIC DANGER IS PRESENTED..;ie real and present danger

not some mug trying to get to work
sit outside pubs at closing time..where it matters

policing isnt 8 to 4..when money trade went 24/7..
thats why you get 'the big bucks'..lol

policing went 8 to 4..9 to 5..funny about that
thats egsactly when nmart thieves dont risk thieving or driving

your[generic]..they*

policy policers..are only catching mug workers
via unlawfull random search..to tax em..

or fools seeing a clear road relaxing for 3 seconds..nity picking,.,revenue raising by statute

anyhow if it was a debate you win
but i feel we both did

cheer johan

Hi There ONE UNDER GOD...

Again, many thanks for your Emails, and thoughtful responses. I will admit, I do need to read you material very carefully, in order that I might (fully) understand the import of your words, and the thrust of your comments or arguement(s).

If I do happen to miss 'exactly' what you're saying, it's because I'm a bit slower these days, and I am older at 70.

Nevertheless, I don't tend to read your sentences in isolation alone. Rather, I try to 'grab' the true intent of your words and often, that gives me the basis of understanding the issues to which you refer.

Thank you again, for taking the time to respond. I do hope we can speak again soon, 'til then, take good care of yourself, OK ?

Cheers.

stay well ol friend

forum is under a new moderator
taking a firm hand..i will be watching..but so far he seems ruthless
http://public.worldfreemansociety.org/index.php/forum/20-introductions/109659-hungry-like-a-wolf

i replied his post and he deleted mine..replaced it with what he had done/wrong presumption clarified..which is all we freemen seek

face our accuser..make fair reperation for injury to other

so watch that space
anyhow thanks for your sense-able advice..its good pr
but more importantly reveals you have a passion to serve..

thank you

just an update old mate
i posted/quoted ..your reply..and can you believe it it was cucked into the equivilent..of the trash can/where you can rethink your post

but your reply was to topic
they interfered directly..with my ccommunication with the origonal question asker..but a third party hid not just one..but 3 replies to others

i ask the universe..is this lawfull
can we make rules that allow interfering with communications

on second thought
we dont need no more laws
we just need the right people letting folks true laws will be restorative of immediate damages..not added punity to those allready disa abled by govts owns govt greedy lawyers/bankers miners and minesters

anyhow just needed to vent
but it does raise a point in law

but who cares..cheers
unsubscribing a topic is easy..
just go to settings or any email notice

its just i dont let things build up
or its the mad cow setting in
cheers

Hi there ONE UNDER GOD...

I've just had a look at the 'Freeman' Site, and there was a message from the 'new moderator' warning all and sundry what would happen if any poor contributor broke his (forum) rules.

Gee, I hope he doesn't take himself too seriously, lest he remain moderator of a Site with only one subscriber...himself ?

It's true though, we must all stick to the Topic at hand otherwise bedlem prevails ! And I'm one of the worst offenders me thinks ?

Thanks again OUG, and take care.

Cheers.