Its been a long held belief that council and government have been over staffed for a LONG time and by and large have been considered inept and hard to deal with ... as an entity. Telstra have been cutting jobs for a long time as have many other businesses in the private sector.

Queensland government just cut off 14,000 jobs (and demand we thank them for not lobbing off 6,000 more) from what they consider non-essential and 'surplus to requirements'.

In Brisbane right now the media (social and MSM) are all over this like a pack of dogs on a carcass, and possibly justifiably so but, ignoring the stress dumped on the workers - but acknowledging and sending thoughts - are the cuts justified?

No not that many, and not to health and education.
Yet they, both QLD and NSW are both helpful and in an extraordinary way a future predicted, Abbott,s action will be the same.
At a time Gillard is incapable of winning anything, Liberals are intent on giving her a rails run.
And by this time next year, well not Gillard but Labor is in with a show.

The way I'm seeing it is that instead of investigating where some fat can be trimmed - so to speak - they've just looked at the books and identified wages being their greatest expenditure and decided to knock that back by a tonne.

Makes it wrong, IMO.

Probably about half of what they should have cut. We can see by the public servants reaction that they have no interest in what's best for the long suffering tax payer, just keeping their own pay packet rolling in, despite in so many instances, doing nothing for it.

Yes have a look at Telstra. Less than half the staff of when they were public servants, doing twice as much work. This shows the PS are still probably 40% over staffed now. If no more sackings, there should be at least a freeze on hiring for many years.

If we had been hearing rumblings from with in the PS of complaints of over manning, I may have some sympathy for those now losing their jobs, but there was no such rumblings. They were prepared to bludge along, in their over paid positions, & to hell with those footing the bill. Well to hell with those now providing the savings.

Belly it is crazy to say none from some special area. A bludger is a bludger anywhere. Probably half of those in make work positions were merely slowing the rate of work down, not facilitating it.

Job cutting is wrong. If a job is not needed than transfer the job holder to another position. If the position is highly paid then offer the incumbent voluntary retirement & if that is not an option put the jobholder on a reduced pay until the job holder's expertise makes him a viable option to get another higher paid position. We simply can not afford to keep Public Servants simply for being there. I see public Servants costing us up to a million Dollars a year for no visible or apparent benefit to Qld.
Meanwhile we are obliged to get three quotes for anything over a thousand Dollars, wasting ours & businesses time at the expense to the taxpayer. Something needs changing in the present idiotic system.

Just history repeating itself I am afraid.

We just keep goimg from money in the bank, to broke, borrowing well beyond our means, back to cost cutting just so labor can get back in one day and start the process again.

rehctub,
yes it's like a step forward & a step back. If there were just slightly fewer ALP supporters we could actually achieve 2 steps forward & only 1 back.
I wonder if there was a way of getting them to see that through their $$$$curtains.

Indi....Job cutting is wrong. If a job is not needed than transfer the job holder to another position

And there in lies the problem.

You see under these rediculus IR agreements, if ones job is effectively 'chopped' some unions won't allow for that worker to be reassigned to an alternative position, this is why some PS sit in an office and do nothing. At least that was the case, perhaps this has changed, I hope so.

What CN is doing is throwing out the dead wood, and, unfortunately some good people get caught up in the mix.

Are people aware that many of the funny emails that get passed around come from public servants.

We need flexibility in IR before we can move forward.

If a better worker comes along, employers must be able to give them a job, in favor of a worse one, much the same way as workers are free to choose jobs, employers must have the same flexibility, otherwise we will simply see more casuals, more contracts and more uncertainty.

Let's face it, if you don't have the smarts, or the work ethics, that's your problem, not the employers.

Just of late I am concerned for OLO.
Now I am aware the same charges can be laid against me.
And that while I like the bloke, GY must get sick of my oposeing views.
But of late we are not seeing the middle folk we once did, many would take to me,and it was ok.
But very many recent arrivals contribute an extreme position.
Frankly, kick me if you wish, seemingly not linked to great ability to think clearly.
Lets be honest,last government in QLD can share the blame.
Some weird anti worker stuff came out of them too.
But this bloke?
He aims at struggle street,even his side are repelled.
Tough but foolish he loads Labors guns.
Without evolving, learning from its mistakes, QLD Labor is back in the race, more power to them.
Ordinary Australians, unionists, public servants are not all bludgers.
For folk to say they are is nothing less than insulting rubbish.
A day must come, that Gillard is gone.
And Labor can unite against a frightening developing future

Belly,
Ok, so you had your standard input however, how about giving us your view how CN should deal with the deadwood in the Public Service. Please no attack, just your idea of how the problem can be or should be solved. Where/how would you employ the useless & how much do you believe they should get paid. How would you change the culture of the public service ?

<<Just history repeating itself I am afraid.

We just keep goimg from money in the bank, to broke, borrowing well beyond our means, back to cost cutting just so labor can get back in one day and start the process again.>>

I agree wholeheartedly with rechtub's observation, and would add this.
It's extremists at both ends of the spectrum who drive these cycles, the idiotic far left , (true believer socialists), on the one hand and the equally idiotic far right Tea Party wannabes on the other hand.
History teaches us that free markets cause huge damages, while the more moderate approach of free enterprise is what has created most of the world's wealth.
Equally, socialism has caused untold destruction but social safety nets have savedcounless lives and given people a chance to rebuild.
The best answer is somewhere in the middle, i.e. the best of both sets of beliefs brought into balance.
And, I believe, that seeking a balance somewhere around the middle of the spectrum would dampen the the wild cycles that rechtub rightly highlights.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.a

The whole problem of cutting back on the number of public servants
could be solved easily.

Just print the money to pay them !
Hmm, well as I just wrote to Belly on the other thread that is how
the financial system likes to solve their debt problem.

The cause of the problem is because you do not have the money to pay
all those public servants.
There are only two possible solutions, print money or sack them and
get them earning their keep elsewhere.

We are in an era of very low growth and some countries are already in
contraction. Growth depends on increasing energy but our government
is determined to reduce the amount of energy we are using so
contraction is inevitable.

So stop whinging and live with it !

The reality is that Govts can't keep spending more than they earn
and the interview with Rudd last night on the 7.30 report, kind
of said it all. Rudd had a go at Costello and claimed along the
lines that labor built things and the liberals tore them down.

Well not really Kevie. If I had a partner who used her Visa card
like labor does, I would have cut it up long ago! Labor just
can't manage money and the libs are left to clean up the financial
mess. If Rudd had half of Costello's ability with numbers,
we would not have the mess which we have today.

Some true drivel as expected here.
But first let us look at how our professional wingers know public servants are all bludgers.
Silence?
I can give evidence some are, one from the Hunter Valley RTA as it was haunts me here, be still Bruce not you.
It is IMPOSABLE! to break the culture of white wash some master.
But just for one of my professional wingers, Indy, here is my thoughts.
Every public servant should have annual reviews done on performance.
NOT BY ANOTHER PS.
Contract out as many top positions as you can cancel contract if not performing.
Too hard, yes no government has the guts to try it.
But thank for the slash and burn it puts my team back on the road.

A couple of points
- As I understand it Newman promised that this would not happen. He was well aware that the Qld economy was in a very bad way even if he did not have the detail. There is no genuine change of circumstance. It's not Ok that Julia broke a committment because she could not find a way for her to be PM and keep that committment, it was not Ok for Bligh to discover after the previous state election that the state economy was in a mess and do what they denied planning to do and it's not Ok for Newman to break his committments.

- Sometimes things my need to be done but the way they are done can create bigger problems than the original. Plenty of government initiatives fall into that trap. Having so many people with similar skill sets out of work at once creates a massive problem for their chances of finding new jobs or being retrained, it creates problems for others with similar skill sets who may also be looking for work.

Has any work been done to ensure that tafes and other training bodies are geared up to start retraining a bunch of office workers who may not be able to afford to be unemployed until the government finds that they actually do need a lot of them back?

R0bert

The thing I find annoying is that any time an economy is in trouble, be it Greece, Spain,, the USA or Qld, somehow the only solution is to make ordinary working folk carry the bulk of the pain and suffering.
Given that these same people practically never have a say in creating the problem, I can't see the justice in that.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

You are right Anthony there is no justice in it.
Except for the Greeks, they just did not pay their tax.
They even have chips in their cash registers that the tax man collects
but they just didn't use the cash register.

Good point about the Greeks, Bazz.
A work associate of mine a few years ago was running a division based in Athens.
He told me that when his wife went into labor the Greek obstetrician required 3,500euros cash up front, and then gave him a receipt for 600.
When he mentioned it to his Greek staff they were amazed that he got a receipt at all.
I suppose we should be grateful that at least specialists in Oz give us a recipt for the right amount when they screw us:)
Anhtony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

*Given that these same people practically never have a say in creating the problem, I can't see the justice in that.*

Well they certainly do. It was the American people who voted for
George Bush, who blew up the economy. Its the Australian people
who vote for some politicians and not others. They live by the consequences of their
actions. That is life, suck it up.

Yes Belly, I say ALL WORKERS should be assessed every year.

Robert, had the public servants worked efficiently, many, if not all the jobs being lost would not have been created in the first place.

After all, it's their fault the PS is over staffed, not the lib governments, or, if it is labor's fault, then it is they who are to blame.

However, if one goes to work, knowing that they are not really putting in the hard yards, then it may just be a case of their times up.

A fair days pay for a fair days work, also means a fair days work for a fair days pay.

At least we can all see why Anna has run away with tail between legs.

It's a disgrace to think ANY GOVERNMENT can go broke during a property and mining boom.

If only they had insurance, so we could get our money back.

Contract out as many top positions as you can cancel contract if not performing.
Belly,
You really are full of surprises. You floored me when you openly supported work choices like this.
good onya !

Yabby,
I'm going to take a punt that you have about the world's shortest memory.
Wall st ring any bells?
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

*Wall st ring any bells?*

I have a great memory Anthony, but also a good understaning of
what happened. Mr Bush and Mr Cheney turned the SEC into a toothless
tiger and removed all FBI work from catching corporate criminals to
chasing Osama. Now let me tell you Anthony, if your Govt cancelled
the police in your State, you might just have a bit of extra crime
to deal with and should not be amazed if you did. That is exactly what
happened in America.

Yabby,
BAAAP No cigar.
Sorry, mate you're wrong again.
The dismantling of the financial controls that allowed the GFC actually began under Clinton, so it wouldn't matter which way voters went, as both parties set the scene.
But the corrupt, arguably criminal, behaviour that led to the GFC can be sheeted home directly to Wall St.
It fell to governments - in the USA it was Obama, in Australia it was Rudd - to act to rescue the world from another great depression.
Like, I said, mate, short memory.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Rehctub you are making pretty big assumptions about those being retrenched and the likelyhood that the cut's will be done based on peoples individual performance.

I've never been direct public service but have worked for a GOC and neither of your assumptions reflect what I've experienced. Most of the people I've worked with have worked fairly hard, from what I've seen in small businesses around the place the people I've worked with have nothing to be ashamed of in their work ethic.

I went through a retrenchment some years ago and the cut's were not based on performance, it was a numbers game with departments having to cut numbers regardless of performance. My position went in the same week I got a commendation from the CEO for the work I'd done on a project that had just wound up.

There is some dead wood in government but a lot of people work very hard as well. Nothing I've seen of what Newman is doing suggests a cull of bludgers.

None of that excuses Newman for breaking his word. It wasn't good enough when it was Labor, it's not good enough when it's the side I vote for.

R0bert

Bad luck Anthony, for I have only the very best cigars, right here :)
So you can stick yours wherever you like, it really doesen't matter.

So now you want to blame Clinton for what happened 8 years later.
You really don't know much about Wall St, Anthony, so to knitting or
something where you know something.

It was in fact Mr Costello, who installed a tough banking regulator
to oversee the Australian financial sector. Result was that we
came out in great shape. Costello left our Govt debt free too.
Its been downhill ever since

Nothing I've seen of what Newman is doing suggests a cull of bludgers
R0bert,
You've got a point there. I'm very keen to find out which positions are going. There are many Q-Build tradies in the firing line yet no bureaucrats who could afford to go early. I think CN needs to exercise a lot of reason rather than just cut'n slash. As I said before he should offer lower pay & the people could then choose to leave or stay. After all, any job loss is a nail in the Qld economy's coffin. How about a pay cut for parliamentarians & high ranking bureaucrats who are not really of benefit to Qld.

Yabby,
For once you're partly right, in Australia it was Costello who withstood pressure to lighten regulation.
But you just disproved your own originl point that it's who voters elect who cause all the problems, by acknowledging that it was a politician who protected the punters from.... Wait for it, here it comes... The BANKERS.
Which proves my original point that it isn't ordinary working people who create these problems, but people who never have to suffer the consequences.
Yabby, you can't even manage to be consistent in what you're arguing for.
But thanks for supporting my original proposition.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Anthony, you remain totally confused, but that does not suprise me.

Politicians can do good or bad, it depends who people elect. In
this case people were smart enough to have elected Costello and he
got it right. Those who voted for Bush can only blame themselves for
their poor judgement, so they are responsible for their actions.

You remain confused with your "bankers" claim. Savings banks are
not so called investment banks. Those who work in so called
investment banks are hardly bankers, but traders, deal doers,
etc. There are crooks on Wall St as there are crooks on every street.
It is the job of Govt to regulate them and jail those who are.

People who work in the finance industry are ordinary people, just
like people who work in the food industry or medical industry.
Crooks exist in every industry.

Ordinary Americans are to blame for electing George Bush, and he
was the man ultimately responsible for screwing up. Just as we
are to blame for the Govt that we elected.

to yabby - absolutly correct,Costello made the rule that NO bank could borrow from any source, more than it had as colateral in funds under management. This little rule was common sense and it saved ozzie bacon with the big crunch.

Robert, in the REAL WORLD, if a job calls for five people, they hire five, not eight.

Now, if the five required forth PS job were capable of doing the job in the first place, then the additional three would not have been employed and, would not be loosing thier jobs.

Think about it!