runner, and others who blame all abortions on women should also acknowledge, that many men also demand the same action.

Woman are not always in the position to proceed with having the baby, often because of lack of support from the father.

It is a shame to see the bravery of both sexes used as an attack against feminism.

It just proves how some men cannot accept the reality of the modern age That is, woman are no longer have to depend on men for their existence.

Like most women, I do love men. Loving men, does not mean I like to depend on them. I also love my independence. I have met few men that want to depend on woman for their existence. Why should they.

Poirot, agreed that it's tasteless. The respect is mutual BTW.

Part of my point is that runner is not an island in trying to score points off tragedy. In the recognising violence thread in the Articles area Jocelynne Scutt uses an example of abuse of a child (in this case by a woman) to set the scene for supporting the expanded definitions of what's violence in DV situations as well as to remind us several times that it's mostly women and children at risk. http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=13912

In an article from June last year Patricia Merkin used one of the West Gate Bridge tragedies to push an anti-male agenda. http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=12255&page=0 There have been a number of other articles using a similar tactic, I've responded at times by pointing to tragedies which highlight the other side of that coin, not to try and score points of tragedy but to try and provide some balance to the one sided portrayal of family violence used by some authors.

runner has not invented the tactic, it's still tasteless and like some others omitting examples which don't suit the point. Or as ChazP put it when caught out selectively quoting stats on child abuse "The selective use/misuse of information is part and parcel of any debate." http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12255#212833 - from memory ChazP is the Patricia who use the West Gate Bridge example.

R0bert

Flo

'runner, and others who blame all abortions on women should also acknowledge, that many men also demand the same action.'

No problem at all Flo. I agree 100%.

I find it interesting that posters accuse me of trying to score 'points ' from a tragedy. If pointing out the silence of those acknowledging the bravery of the 4 males who took bullets for their woman is scoring points so be it. I do thank you Robert for being reasonable in your posts.

To me every abortion is a tragedy. I do think however in the Batman slaughter that the extreme bravery of these men have not been widely acknowledged or the fact that it was instinctive to them to protect the fairer species.

Many feminist should be the last to pontificate about me point scoring. Look at the vile things said by Deveny about Bindy Irvine.

Runner…

...Your very brave me thinks. This is a site rich in the bile of lesbian politics and menaces of homosexuality and liberalism! Like the penguins they are, they huddle for warmth within the secured walls of OLO.

...But...I love your posts and will continue to read (and support) them, with relish!

Dear runner,

You write: "To me every abortion is a tragedy"

In there is no nuance - no acknowledgement of circumstances. If a woman who is raped is compelled to bear the child of the criminal who raped her that is a tragedy. The abortion is not.

If a woman who has 11 child and is pregnant with the twelth because of the sexual demands of her husband who refuses to use a contraceptive is compelled to have a twelfth child that is a tragedy. The abortion is not.

My wife was a visiting nurse. She gave women who did not want more children contraceptive advice. When the agency found out they fired her.

In the above cases and in many other cases the rights of the born prevail over the rights of the unborn.

in some cases abortion is simply the best course of action for the pregnant woman. Those abortions are not tragedies. The births are.

Colorado shooter was under the care of University Psychiatrist.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/aurora-shooting-suspect-was-under-psychiatrists-care-7984483.html
The doctor who was allegedly managing Holmes' case is an expert on schizophrenia and was a member of a board which assessed the threats to campus security posed by disruptive or mentally ill students.

The Pseudocommando mass killer often dies in a shootout with Police or commits suicide, many who are apprehended are found mentally unfit to stand trial, it's only a minority who are well enough to be tried and jailed or executed.
http://www.julianknight-hoddlestreet.ca/julian-knight-research-file/mass-murderers.html