runner,

It appears you started this thread under the guise of recognising the bravery of some young men...but it was only a vehicle for you to put the boot into feminists.

Tip: If in the future you wish to criticise feminism, just start a thread criticising feminism.

Not very good form.

I would like to say, I would like to give credit for all the bravery that occurred on that day.

It is hitting below the belt, to try and turn the bravery into an argument against feminism.

Firstly I agree with those who make the point that bravery and self sacrifice is not gendered.

Now for the bit where I'll hate myself in the morning, I need to stick up for runner(a bit).

Of runners critics other than Poirot who gets as outraged when its someone from the mums lobby playing up a incident where a dad harms his kids as a way of trying to leverage the incident? Thats happened often enough on OLO to be something that those who've been around for a while can ask themselves.

I rad runners comments as a response to the often overwhelmingly negative views of males and masculinity espoused by SOME feminist authors. Who doubts the view that numbers of feminist writers tout a line of male oppression of women, of male privilege with little mention of male sacrifice for family.

I dont agree with many of runners views but some of the outrage directed at him over this seems well out of context.

It is tasteless to try to score points off such a tragedy but in the face of the some of the portrayal of msaculinity I've seen I have some empathy for the point runner appears to be trying to make.

R0bert

RObert,

You are the most reasonable of male contributors to this forum. Your reason, tolerance and balance are difficult to surpass. (really respect you, mate)

It just seems a bit off to use the incredible bravery of those men, who probably reacted from instinct (and shows you how men are programmed to protect as much as anything) to slam dunk feminists.

WmTrevor made a spectacular point with his post... that it's usually other "men" who men have to protect women from - as in the cinema situation. The point feminism makes is that violence from men is a huge problem - and it is. That doesn't mean that women are perfect or that all men are violent.

I get runner's point - but as you say, it's tasteless in the face of tragedy.

G'day R0bert, I actually share your bit of empathy for the point runner may have been trying to make which is why my post attempted instruction…

Maybe he would have been better off using the 'C' word?

As in: "I look forward to the acknowledgements of the chivalry shown by so many brave men in the aurora shooting from posters who only ever comment negatively about males."

Some women put men down, and some men put women down. However, I don't know what sex does it more, and I don't know that feminists do it more than other women. I imagine there is plenty of putdowns of men among women who are not feminists.

I think runner has a stereotype of a feminist which does not accord with reality. It looks to me similar to the white people in the US who called black people demonstrating for civil rights uppity. Prejudice against another group is ugly, but it is common. Sometimes it is a reaction against a group which wants to be treated equally. Sometimes a protesting group may be ugly in their protest. That does not make their protest less valid.

Under the guise of morality and concern for life runner gets excited about abortion. The right of abortion is part of the right of women to control their own bodies. That drives runner up the wall. The life of a woman is more important than the life of a fetus. That is my view which I think differs from that of runner. However, runner, I and everybody else owe our lives to a woman.