Wonders will never cease. Yes it's official, the scam is over.

I almost dropped my coffee in surprise this morning, when I actually heard the IPCC, & it's reporting methods criticized on the ABC. Yes I'll say it again, the ABC has actually allowed criticism of the IPCC.

They actually interviewed Donna Laframboise the author of the book, "The Delinquent Teenager", who was mistaken for the world's top climate expert. Such a happening has not been allowed these many years.

Yes we know Spain, Germany & in fact everyone but the poms & us have woken up to the scam, but hell, this is our ABC I'm talking about. Wonders will never cease, they appear to be cracking. Could they have seen the writing on the wall? Are they having a dollar each way on the scam dying? I sure hope so.

This was right after a very civil, [would you believe], party games. I'm not sure I am actually awake. I must be dreaming.

problem was that no thinking person was ever scared. The brainwashing of the kids was the biggest travesty. It appears to be still going on by the leftist brigade and those who truely believe it was the biggest 'moral'issue of the century. Ms Gillard certainly did not as she advised Rudd not to tax people. If she had of listened to her own advice she might of had a chance at the next election. In my school days global cooling was the official scare.

Ah my dear Hasbeen,

Your name in conjunction with Climate Change brings back really pleasant memories. It had been a long time since I had that much fun on OLO.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5123&page=0#138492

So who do you have for us now? A climate scientist? A meterologist? Just a run of the mill scientist?

Nope, none of the above, instead we have Donna Laframboise, a journalist who dismisses climate models as just 'a bunch of numbers in' and 'a bunch of numbers out'.
ABC Radio John Faine.

Wow. Can I have my 8 cents back today please?

Seriously though we do need investigative journalists to scrutinise governing bodies. I am prepared to listen to Donna more than Andrew Bolt any day. If she identifies governance problems within the IPCC then I want them exposed and dealt with. What I am not prepared to do is to give any undue weight to any of her pronouncements on the science of Climate Change nor of any announcements from yourself that the threat of GW is over because the ABC interviewed her.

<< Yes it's official, the scam is over >>

Hahaha Hasbeen. If you try hard enough, you might just convince yourself that it is all just a scam…. and that it is over.

Seems to me that this is exactly what you are doing here – desperately trying to convince yourself that it’s all over.

You’ve picked such an insignificant example and blown it out of all proportion, in fact; blown it right to the end of the spectrum by declaring that it means the ‘scam’ is over.

I wish I knew why it was so important to you that AGW not be real. It just doesn’t make any sense.

I’ve said a whole bunch of times; you can’t assert that! You don’t know! No one knows!

Denialism makes no sense! You should be a sceptic. And sceptics should err on the side of caution, which basically means doing the same things that the warmists or climate-change worriers advocate.

And then there’s peak oil, which means that we should be doing much of the same sort of things as for climate change, irrelevant of whether AGW is real or not.

Hasbeen,
Dont get your hopes up, one swallow does not make a spring. only last night on ABC news segment about famine in west Africa they were blaming climate change for the drought. A couple of days ago one paper was spruking abour the Great Ocean Road being in danger from rising sea levels. So the scammers are still at it.

Looks like the government in your sunny state are going to remove the rotten properganda from the school text books, so that is a start.

Problem being AGW is a religion where belief does not require hard evidence.

If that feller Faine is still working for the ABC next Monday, we will know it is official policy to get off the total fixation with the AGW fraud. I guess they are getting frightened of what Tony might do to them after the election.

It will be really interesting to watch these clowns when they are torn between pleasing the boss, & sucking up to their lefty mates.

Luddy mate, it comes totally naturally. I have always had a nose for a fraud, but I slipped up by not even looking at this one for years. I even continued to believe the trial run of the con, the great ozone hole fraud. We can all now see the cure was just another fraud.

But they have lost. Too many have woken up, & too many others are hurting too damn much to care either way. Yep they got close, but the Kewpie doll will be ours.

Shock? no not a bit my mate hasbeen is like this.
Clutching at straws that are not there.
Leaping on facts and trying to strangle the life out of them.
Shouting about lieing science and a world wide fraud, that he supports in his posts.
Why ever would 7 BILLION humans have any impact on our environment?
Well enjoy folks, but remember this thread will be Iconic one day, for its blindness to reality.
4 blooming Lilly's now Hasbeen! after inches of rain my home is renamed *foot rot flats* can day Lille's swim?

Why ever would 7 BILLION humans have any impact on our environment?
Belly,
Although 7 billion is way too many, the planet can deal with it. What the planet can't digest is pollution from warfare, medical waste, frivolous industry waste & commercial sport waste.
Also, the greenies are fighting against evolution every two minutes. Medical industry too is fighting nature all the way.
Let the planet run itself for a little while and you'll see.

indiviual,

"Let the planet run itself for a while and you'll see."

This is what you'll see:....http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

A pertinent example of a lack of regulation.

You see, the planet does run itself quite efficiently, but it has this dastardly clever species called Homo Sapiens that is as avaricious and devoid of wisdom and control as it is intelligent.

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/
Poirot,
That's beyond the wildest imagination yet it is dreadful reality. Send that Post to those who believe in growth & keep the gates open for uncontrolled immigration.
At least they'll know what's at the end of that tunnel. See if they have a change of heart.
I just learnt that my Apple Macs were made in China, almost made me throw them out of the window. I would if I could be guaranteed other brands weren't produced under the same dreadful conditions.

Hasbeen,
Wikipeadia has, down in the references, about number 85, there are quite a few on the emissions equivalence.

I think this MIT is the Mass Inst Tech
http://web.mit.edu/evt/summary_wtw.pdf

http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2009-04-24/odac-guest-commentary-how-green-are-electric-cars

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/smart-transportation-solutions/advanced-vehicle-technologies/electric-cars/emissions-and-charging-costs-electric-cars.html

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.php

I could not find some of the original articles that I read in the past.

However there are lots there. If you are in an area of inefficient
power generation with high co2 emissions you might come out square,
but the consensus (ha ha) seems to be that you emit about 60% to 75% of a similar ic engine car.

Anyway, I thought you were not interested in global warming !

The scam is not over fro Labor and Greens.They will milk it for all its worth.Don't trust the Coalition either.

csteele, I wasn't going to say it, but I'm afraid I must. You see mate, you need help. Your statement that you are not prepared to listen to Andrew Bolt shows this. It is facts, not who said what that matters.

Granted I find Bolt grates a little, but I'm interested in the facts he exposes.

It is an academic trait, the cause of many major mistakes, that they are more interested in who said something, rather than what was said. The continual deference to authority leads to the unexamined acceptance of much garbage.

The climate gate Emails have proved that our so called climate scientists have no interest in the truth. Nobody other than the feeble minded, who has read just a couple of dozen of them could ever take anything they pronounce as anything but garbage supported only by contrived, tortured & simply made up data.

This leads me to believe that you have avoided reading them, or are prepared to use anything to promote your interest. Tell me, are your interests financial, or is it a green god that leads you. If you have not seen the hundreds of cases of false data used by the IPCC, found by so many people, it can only be that your eyes are locked shut.

In a decade or so we'll have forgotten about the "Coal Barons" and be railing against the "Green Barons", AGW is about money and power, when vested interests find a way to monopolise renewable energy generation they'll divert people's attention with some other scam.
I'll take any bet that in years to come there will be legislation pushed by the power companies to limit or outlaw private, backyard energy generation and solar panels or turbines will be restricted and only rented out to households.

Dear Hasbeen,

Not raising this again are we? Streuth laddie, don't you ever learn?

Just to get this straight, you want me to take the word of a person our own legal system has described as “…at worst, dishonest and misleading and at best, grossly careless.” over a group of scientists who were subjected to 9 separate inquiries and completely exonerated?

Then on that basis chuck out any notion of Global Warming?

Anybody who would do that would rightly be labelled as delusional. And you then have the hide to claim I'm the one needing help? 

Sheesh!

well I suppose csteele could listen to Flannery who predicted empty dams in Sydney and Melbourne as well as a number of other idiotic predictions. And then theirs the great evangelist Al Gore who has made millions by telling lies. How dare any journalist question these prophets.

Steely I want you to take the word of your gods. The words they wrote in those emails. The ones that tell us in their own words, that no shonky business is going too far in their quest for their goal.

Have you ever read them, or aren't you game?

Dear runner,

You said "And then theirs(sic) the great evangelist Al Gore who has made millions by telling lies."

Well you and your lot should be able to pick them my friend.

Remember the most powerful evangelist pastor through the Bush presidency one Ted Haggard. Married with five children, stridently anti-homosexual but caught doing drugs off a gay prostitute's arse.

But tell me runner, how has Al Gore made millions for himself off the fight against GW?

Dear Hasbeen,

You're the one touting these emails as the smoking gun. How about getting of your backside, doing a little work for once and presenting the evidence here. I got pretty jack last time of you lazy blighters giving 50 word responses to  evidence I would provide spanning a couple of posts.

You lay out the reasons we should ignore the findings of 9 investigations.

The floor is yours my friend. Put up or put a sock in it.

Hasbeen! stop it! it will only hurt you.
Admitting to listening/watching BOLT!
We now understand why you get a bit far right on your track to hunt down truth and strangle the life out of it.

Belly did you miss the subject matter of this thread. Now if I were to listen to either Bolt, or OUR ABC without first turning on my bull sh1t detector I would be a real fool.

Of course bolt is 30 minutes a week, the ABC is 4 channels adding up to 87 hours, plus all that radio. I know which one would rot your brain, if you took it all, or even 10% of it for gospel.

Hasbeen,

I've "never" listened to Bolt...do yer reckon that's where I'm going wrong?

I'm fascinated that your self-styled scientific qualifications seem to rest on your assumption that you have a "nose" or "detector" for bullsh!t. Have you a link to a peer reviewed paper on that point?

Hasbeen I actually like you, true.
But leave your detector at home.
Wandering the streets with it constantly ticking and pointing at you is embarrassing your Friends.

Here we are, Groundhog Day all over again, with Hasbeen and his Gallileo wannabe mates clinging desperately to any words - no matter how ill informed or unqualified the speaker - to justify their terror at, and denial of, AGW.
I noted somewhere in the comments, it might have been Arjay, an assertion that the Germans "get it".
The fact is that Germany is a world leader in combating global warming, and its reality is overwhelmingly accepted by the vast majority of the population.
Enjoy what little time you have left, Denialists, for the tide of history will soon sweep you away in Australia as it is in so many other countries.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.a

I didn't receive my notification of this thread until Monday. Everyone else seems to have received the email on Friday. I wonder why that is?

I can't really comment on what Bolt said on the ABC. I didn't see the broadcast. I don't listen to the radio either. In fact the only time I see an article by Bolt is in the Sunday Mail. Some things he has to say I agree with & some things I don't.

One thing I don't do is get my knickers in a knot which seems to be the case with a lot of fanatical posters. It's only one persons view, either you agree or disagree. If you take to heart everything that is said or written you are bound to give yourself a heart attack. Stress Less & Live.

Here's a thing I find strange. Most posters in this group seem to spend ALL their time posting on "multiple" threads at the same time. They listen & watch every Newscast & TV Program, read every Newspaper, look up every thread on the Internet & read every Report done on which ever subject, on whatever, we are discussing. Then profess to be an expert authority on THAT subject & everyone else that disagrees with them is a fool. Does anybody work, do housework, play with your children/grandchildren, go fishing or shopping. Are you all like me? retired & have nothing better to do with your time.
cont.

cont,
The other thing I have noticed is, with all this professed knowledge of what is & isn't true, right or wrong, correct or incorrect, no-one has put forward any answers or solutions. Just argument. I have been informed here many times, "It's not my job." A typical Public Service answer. I , at least have proposed some answers & solutions, but have been met with derision. That is a typical "Woman" thin, not a "Man" thing. Men find answers/solutions to problems not a pat on the back with a "there, there, it'll be OK. The bastard." as in the case of women. Therefore I feel that what I have here, in all these posts is a bunch of narky old women. ;-)

Yayb,
I understand your sentiment that :-

Therefore I feel that what I have here, in all these posts is a bunch of narky old women. ;-)

I object to your blatant sexism.

csteele

'Remember the most powerful evangelist pastor through the Bush presidency one Ted Haggard. Married with five children, stridently anti-homosexual but caught doing drugs off a gay prostitute's arse.'

Yes of course with moral relativism you have trouble calling what Haggard did was wrong. Oh no you don't because only Christians can do wrong. That is why you are happy to tolerate the gw high priests on the public trough along with the evalengist like Gore and Flannery who make megga bucks from lies. Then you have the hide to critize the likes of Bolt who expose these charlatans.

Runner,
Andrew Bolt is on the record as saying that he took his contrarian position at the getgo because he saw that it would advance his journalistic career, which it has indeed done.
So he's on the record as admitting he has no journalistic ethics, by his own admission.
Now, you assert that Gore and Flannery lie.
Okay, prove it.
And, btw, is NASA lying when it states that ten of the last eleven years have been the hottest on record since records have been kept?
Open your mind, Runner and stop being so fearful of the need to change.
But even if you can't achieve that - please try to stay within the bounds of demonstrable reality.
And the first step in achieving that is to be a tad more discerning in your information sourcing.
To put that another way, I cite NASA, while you cite Bolt and accuse anybody who doesn't agree with Uncle Andrew of lying. Who do you think has a credibility problem?
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Anthonyve

'Open your mind, Runner and stop being so fearful of the need to change.'

a healthy fear of God and you have no need to be fearful of anything else. It is the true believers of gw that are filled with fear (although I suspect most are just filled with false ideology). The earth will be burn't up in judgement at same stage anyway. Just read the Scriptures that never lie unlike the warmist high priests). We will then know what true man made warming is as we pay the price for our wickedness and rejection of God's Son.

Just look at Flannery's idiotic predictions on rainfall in the Eastern States. Gore is no better and anyone who can google will find ample evidence of their deceit. Every time Flannery opens his mouth he has egg on his face.

Personally I am not concerned how many idiotic taxes their are for my own benefit. I can afford to pay. When I see pensioners who are to frightened to turn heaters on because of the deceit of the warmist i get annonyed. Their are plenty of them and the compensation given by this lying Government is not sustainable in the long run.

Runner,
Several points:
1. There is no such thing as a 'healthy' fear in God;
2. If you believe in God then you are admitting to believing in something without a shred of scientific evidence to support it, so I guess it's easy to believe climate change denialism, which also doesn't have a shred of evidence to support it.
3. You quickly call Gore and Flannery liars, yet you seem to yet you are unable to show evidence.
3. I have pointed out to you before on another thread, Runner, that your assertions that pensioners are afraid to turn on their heaters due to the Carbon Tax is a blatant, provable lie. My evidence for that assertion is treasury figures, acknowledged even by the Coalition, that pensioners receive compensation which more than covers any impact of the Carbon Tax.
So, what are we to make of a person who professes a 'healthy' fear of 'God' yet who accuses others of lying but is unable to provide evidence and who blatantly lies even after having the lie pointed out to them?
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

It never ceases to amaze me that people seem to pin most of this on Al Gore - as if he "discovered" the concept of AGW.

He was just a high documentary profile presenter putting forward a case for something that has been researched for decades.

It's like claiming that David Attenborough "discovered" all those animals he presents on his documentaries of that Neil Armstrong "discovered" the Moon.

Unbelieveably naive.

And as for Bolt, he's just a lying and paid mouthpiece for Gina the Hutt and her cronies who have their own agenda and wingnuts-for-hire like "Lord" Monkton are no better His current campaign is trying to prove that Obama was not born on US soil. I suppose he's an expert in that field too.

Just because AGW isn't on the front page of the news every day (like the wars in Afghanist and and Iraq aren't) doesn't mean it's gone away and by no means disproven.

Your last point is well made, Wobbles.
The reason AGW is no longer on the front page so much, is because most thinking people now accept the reality of AGW.
Also, since the Carbon Tax has come into force, and we find that the sky hasn't fallen in, and Abbott's absurd scaremongering has been shown for the sham it is, there is no longer much sensation in the topic.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Harking back a few of your posts Hasbeen, you wrote:

<< Luddy mate, it comes totally naturally. I have always had a nose for a fraud … >>

Hehehe. You do indeed have an innate ability to be suspicious, if not immediately see the worst possible side of these things.

It seems to me you are all too willing to condemn people and processes unless they can demonstrate strong and immediate positive things, and no negatives.

You condemn every politician, every academic, every person who puts forward any ideas for improving our society. Well, so it seems to me.

It’s all just sooo negative!

I reckon it is fundamentally due to a great fear of major changes to our way of life and our quality of life, and an enormous desire for things stay as they are.

This appears to be the bottom line for abject denialists. They just don’t want to know about anything that is likely to threaten our peaceful existence and end up just totally denying that there are any threats to it, and denouncing anyone who says that there are.

<< …the great ozone hole fraud. >>

I’ve got to admit, I chuckled profusely when I read that! (:>)

PEST: Therefore I feel that what I have here, in all these posts is a bunch of narky old women. I object to your blatant sexism.

I'm confused PEST. You weren’t specific in your objection. Was it the word ; a. bunch (wrong collective noun) b. Narky (name calling), c. old (ageism), d. women (genderism) or e all of the above.

Please look up my profile. It states that I am "anti PC". It's the only thing I hate. Well one can't be perfect, can one? So I’ll not apologize. I object to your intolerance, I feel that it's Politically Incorrect. I await an apology for your intolerance.

Ludwig: the great ozone hole fraud. I’ve got to admit, I chuckled profusely when I read that!

Yes I remember it well. I remember that some scientist said we'd all be burnt to a crisp with Solar Radiation by the year 2000. I sent him an email at the time and said the simple answer was that when all planes flew over or near the poles they release Ozone. He did have the courtesy to reply with, "if that were to happen that would give people the excuse not to do anything about the CFC's". So he really wasn't interested in saving the planet by doing all that was possible. He was only interested in his crusade. I find a lot of the same thing around here.

Anthonyve,

'Every NSW town visited by Professor Tim Flannery or his Climate Commission colleagues for community forums where residents were told they were in a "drying trend" has been deluged by rain up to three times the annual average. '

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-news/its-a-case-of-tim-foolery-as-flannerys-predictions-of-dry-dams-go-unfulfilled/comments-e6freuzi-1226297567261

come out of denial before accusing people of being liars

Hay Wobbley, I thought that was supposed to be big oil that paid the dissenters.

Ludwig old mate, I'm the one who has had 4 different careers.

I'm the one who chucked up the security thing, & went sailing around the Pacific Islands.

I guess my disgust with these so called leaders is intensified as I was too damn busy extracting experience out of this life, to have time to bother to look in the past.

Now the body can't handle flying off aircraft carriers, [as if we still had one], racing cars, sailing around the Pacific, riding show jumpers, or even breeding cattle, I've got too much time to look & see what a lousy bunch of "C" graders we have.

Of course we are not alone in this. From what I did notice, & have read since slowing down, the whole western world must be about as badly lead as it has ever been.

When you look back at fools like Fraser, Gorton & a few of the others, they were virtually harmless, as they never did much. Today we have even more stupid folk, doing far too much damage, because they think they know. God help us.

If Europe, or the US were any better led it would not be so bad, but if anything their lot are worse.

Still keeps me interested if nothing else.

Hasbeen,

Big Oil are certainly one of the primary funders of the global (so-called) Think Tanks behind the dissenters while locally it seems to be the miners who are more obviously paying for the biassed media commentary and footing the accommodation bills for visiting "experts".

Go to http://sourcewatch.org/index.php and do a search on whatever group is making contrary statements and look at who funds them.

You can also search on who funds or promotes individual commentators, such as http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heartland_Institute/Global_warming_experts

Then again you can just let somebody like Alan Jones do all your thinking for you, repeat whatever conspiratorial slogans are doing the rounds and sound well informed.

jayb was not being sexist just self descriptive.
I find it good that some clearly see their own faults.
We will, those of us still about, see the issue very much alive and proved next decade.

Belly: jayb was not being sexist just self descriptive.
We will, those of us still about, see the issue very much alive and proved next decade.

No I wasn't. & that's what they said about the Ozone layer. Belly please propose a solution, other than a Carbon tax, for AGW.

Oops, http://news.yahoo.com/does-tree-ring-study-put-chill-global-warming-170718316.html

More scientific data.

Oh dear...lol...the greens are bad.
\
\
cc

Could I invite those who are capable of reasonable discussion (sorry runner) to stroll on over to Graham's blog to examine the study touted by Jayb two posts ago.
http://www.ambitgambit.com/2012/07/12/more-accurate-dendrochronology-straightens-hockey-stick/

Tit for tat can be fun but I for one really don't learn much. These studies, for me at least, take a bit of getting my head around so I would find it helpful having a few extra heads there especially if they are taking a skeptical viewpoint.

If we park some of the hairy chest stuff at least for this exercise it may be productive.

Csteel, I had seen a report on this just recently and a comment by the
author was that it was not a contradiction of global warming.
I understand that it is a modification of the warming.
I don't remember where I read it.

There are a number of contradictions in this whole business.
One is that the world has been warming for the last 300 years because
of the end of the Maunder Minimum.
That puts the warming back past the start of coal mining.
Oh dear, and they wonder why there are skeptics.

csteele, I studied this stuff for a couple of years.

I had real trouble getting my head around the fact that the type of people I had trusted ever since my uni days were actually lying to me. It was only after I refreshed my math, so I could actually understand enough, that I admitted to myself it was happening

When I first reached the conclusion that they were wrong, I assumed that they had misread the evidence, or were not up with the latest information.

Then as the evidence continued to mount, & every bit of new pronouncement by the AGW brigade was refuted even more quickly, I started to admit that these people were pushing a barrow, a barrow full of BS.

Some I'm sure had a quid involved, or the vice chancellor had given them the word that the institutions now depended on the AGW dollar from governments. Some probably were just too vain to admit their gullibility.

Yes I'm angry about it. I have been conned, & don't like it. Even more, I don't like that I fell for it for so long. Why I did not apply the lesson from the Y2K fiasco, I can't imagine, but it won't happen again.

Go read from some of the sites you don't like, for a while. I like Tallbloke's Talkshop. The math gives me a headache sometimes, but it really gets to the guts of things. There are many others, a lot of them with full detail of many new papers, but some, like the warmers, do require faith.

Faith has nothing whatever to do with it.
10 of the last 11 years have globally been the hottest on record, since records have been kept - ever.
No faith needed there.
Just common sense and no psychological need to satisfy.
Everybody in the world, including NASA, CSIRO, all the world's best universities, are lying except the two or three 'geniuses' on this site who can see through their nefarious schemes.
Oh, gimme a break.
Talk about delusions of adequacy.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Hasbeen said;
apply the lesson from the Y2K fiasco,

The Y2K fiasco was real. It really was a major problem.
The only reason that you saw no problems was because 100Ks of
programmers worked overtime for months modifying and testing programs.

I know that I had to fix a couple of my own minor programs.
In a couple of cases that I am aware of people would not have been
paid their wages if it had not been fixed.

Anty that's only if you use the figres that have beem hamonogised tortured, corrected & otherwise falsified by those with the most to gain by the scam.

If you have to "hide the decline" you're lying. There is no other way to say it. Freedome of information does not worry honest men, only those with something to hide.

Weather events are getting increasingly violent.
Something to do with ocean temperature.
There's a fair chance drought will return to the Eastern side of AU.

Hasbeen,
Two popints.
First of all you said, 'hamonogised'? I don't even know what that means.
Sounds like the title for a Pedro Aldomovar movie.
Second, you said,'corrected and otherwise falsified'. You don't think that's seems, well, a tad oxymoronic?
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

One of the AGW reports was that the number of Hurricanes in the US
had increased. Thw wx bureau reported that it was no so. In fact there
had been less.

If I went to 9 Doctors and each one did independent tests and all said that smoking was causing me health problems and that if I did not stop, the problems would get worse.

I then go to a 10th Doctor and he says the others are all wrong, that they are only testing me for my money and that I should continue to smoke.

Furthermore if that 10th Doctor is being paid by a cigarette company then who should I believe?

Perhaps I'll just light one up now while I consider the problem.

Dear Bazz,

One of the denier's reports was that the number of Hurricanes in the US
had decreased. Thw wx bureau reported that it was no so. In fact there
had been more.

Geez, that was easy.

Next.

Dear has been,

I too studied this stuff for a couple of years before landing on the stance I now have. Natural scepticism is really important. The danger we fall into is having adopted a particular position we often vigorously defend it well past its merits.

It is very easy to present stuff that supports one's position but a hell of a lot harder to shift someone else's. That is how it should be. So if I'm told by a person they have damning and irrefutable evidence that my particular stance is wrong then it needs to be at least of equal weight and veracity to that which solidified my thinking in the first place.

Naturally if the only thing that person furnishes is vitriol and cries of 'Scam' then they deserve short shrift.

csteele,
You make a good point.
But, here's a thing. Each time I meet someone who claims to be a clear thinking skeptic who has studied Global Warming carefully before reaching an opinion for or against, (and it's usually against as the people who tend to be for, are more likely to go with the 98% of climate scientists who support AGW), I always ask this question.
"So, what else have you studied - other than global warming - with the same level of diligence before forming an opinion?"
And you know something? Hardly ever does the clear thinking skeptic have an answer.
Now, I'm not saying you fall in this category, I have no idea.
But I do know quite a few folk who do.
They're clear headed, hard thinking, hard studying, pragmatic skeptics when it comes to global warming, but on every other topic, they're just like the rest of us.
Yeah, right.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

csteele, before you come back with sarcastic responses I suggest you
do a little checking.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pdf/05pielke.pdf

CONCLUSIONS. To summarize, claims of link-
ages between global warming and hurricane impacts
are premature for three reasons.

There is a stack of information on the noaa site, so you can amuse
yourself for days on just that site.
I could not be bothered to search further.

Dear Bazz,

Can't be bothered about sums your effort up.

If you come on here and post something without backing it up in any way shape or form you certainly deserve to be slapped over the knuckles.

It is not our job but rather yours to go and substantiate your argument. At a bare minimum you should let us know which 'AGW report' stated the number of hurricanes had increased and at least furbish a link to the weather bureau document that claims there have been less.

If you can't be bothered doing any substantiating work then why bother posting in the first place.

As your link states even in 2005 IPCC writers like Linda Mearns, of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR), were saying “There’s a push on climatologists to say something about extremes, because they are so important. But that can be very dangerous if we really don’t know the answer”.

That to me about sums it up.

Oh....the world is not changing...OK:)....either way,.....the planet is still heating up.

Again...now what are you to do?

cc

A few words from the Devils advocate, mostly ones I have read here.
Climate change is not happing.
It is happening but is natural.
It does not matter its effects will be good more than bad.
Believers have been conned, by Germany who wants to take over the world, science who just lie.
Its about taxing us not climate.
Cutting Australian emissions will do nothing about the worlds out put.
Now my thoughts, if half those charges against us believers are true, just half.
Look no more, you have found the missing link!
It is us! the believers who so easily have been flim flamed.
We are a primitive form of humanity.

Belly:
"But leave your detector at home.
Wandering the streets with it constantly ticking and pointing at you is embarrassing your Friends."

Thanks so much for the laugh!

And thanks everyone else for the entertaining read. But I'll be heading back to the real world now where the views of scientists on matters of science are valued over the views of "journalists" and politicians.

Corbet: But I'll be heading back to the real world now where the views of scientists on matters of science are valued over the views of "journalists" and politicians.

Another one that's been Flim Flamed. I'm with you Belly. Journalists are like Lawyers, they play both ends against the middle to sell papers. & Politicians will use any excuse to introduce another Tax.

AGW scare is officially over!?

PHOOOOOWEY !! !!

Ludwig: PHOOOOOOWEY.

Buggar! What will we bicker about now?

Ah Jayb, if you are looking for something different to have a good old bicker-fest over, how about this::

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5278

Such an important issue, but no one except me old mate Belly seems to give the slightest hoot.

Very disappointing indeed!