Belly>>I am, and will remain an ALP voter.<<

See sport, there is the intellect thing again.

You also said this:
“Gillard her installation,her continued holding a position she should not have.
Thomson affair, death of the JOY Kevin 07 bought. NSW Labor, SUSSEX STREET MAGGOTS, QLD,lost for maybe 15 years, tainted by our association with the greens, plenty to concern me.”

You forgot to add we are $880 BILLION in debt, we have moved from owing less than 10% of our GDP in 2008 to owing 23% of our GDP today. Everything Labor has touched has failed. The bureau of stats shows us that over the last 50 years Labor spends and Libs save, it is as simple as that, except no Labor govt has ever taken on national debt and increased taxes like the Rudd/ Gillard circus.

You admit the shambles yourself, and then tell me proudly, Labor to the death. It's like sticking your hand in fire, if you have the intellect required you will pull it out, if not you keep burning. Alternate to it being an intellect issue it could be about being an accolyte. Belly being an acolyte is a psychological crutch, you need a team, or an identity and you stick to them even when you know they are not fit for purpose. I remember as a teen jigging school to march in the Viet moratoriums, proud to stand with the common sense Labor party of the times, the one you and I grew up with….it’s gone, swallowed by lawyers and social warriors needing a cause.

They went from taking the best bits of the socialist revolution and applying it to the people of their nation, so as to attain social justice. To selling their people to the U.N.’s view of a utopian world with every breath you take and every move you make being directed from some bullsheiser bureaucrat with a protocol from Europe.

But none of this is personally insulting to you Belly, it’s a view formulated by looking at facts and then reading what you write.

Funny thing - GDP.
Some people seem obsessed with it as a measure of success but -
Every time a forest is cleared - the GDP goes up.
Every time there is a toxic oil spill, the GDP goes up and
Every time somebody is diagnosed with cancer, the GDP goes up.

As unpopular as the ALP are, they are historically the party who built things and made the necessary social reforms that we now take for granted.

The Conservatives are a bunch of amoral, elitist, socially divisive, self-serving, do-nothing hypocrites who are no more than the mouthpiece of certain business interests.

They are a handbrake on modern society and are dedicated to keeping power where they think it belongs - in the hands of their financial sponsors and helping them line their pockets accordingly.

They build nothing in the way of infrastructure and only act on social change for electoral purposes, not out of public interest.
(What did Howard build during his "miracle years"? A dud railway and a bunch of flagpoles for schools. He did manage to put most of our public assets into private hands and hasn't that worked out well for the consumer?)

The next coalition government will do the only thing they have always done - give tax relief to the wealthy and impose further costs on the poor.

A few terms later, they will in turn be thrown out and the cycle begins again.

Lexi I excepted the words to be aimed at me.
Your retraction is noted, my view stands.
I see the usual, of little help to the ALP, the better of two sides but not perfect in this debate.
I see too the refusal, from every one, to look at just who are the proposed leaders post next election.
What the proposed policy's are, and what the effects of those IF IMPLEMENTED ARE.
Sonofglion has come back from a spell, rude crude and armed with a miss placed self confidence, nothing new there.
But some what more overbearing than usual.
This mornings Galaxy poll, tells what I have been saying for two years.
No last minute save here, right now, believe it, Liberals scandals are FAR WORSE than Labors, no one wants to know, few care.
Julie Gillard is blinding voters to our achievements.
Based on nothing but understanding my party internally, MUST BELIEVE we can not win.
We have both Rudd and Shorten, who could lift our vote by near double figures.
But do not, it appears want to waste them? but are prepared to put more than half our members heads on Gillards block.
Abbott? surely we know he is a three dollar bill!as Gillard is.

Need to thank Ludwig, and defend him, a great poster .
And try.
Yes try to re focus on this subject, is it not clear men have turned away from Gillard?
She, if arriving with God on her arm, can not lead to an election victory.
But Abbott, if he lasts, will.
What then.
What direction would we take.
Why can 5 better leaders it, sometimes on the back benches, behind these two, and not be able to grow.
Answer! both are experts at wringing the life out of new growth new talent.
Hiding their lack of any such thing.
And the jelly fish nature of their party's, no back bone.

What is it with labor supporters, as they can either see no wrong, or, they just can't see the big picture.

They (labor) have had two cracks in the past twenty odd years, both times being voted in with popular leaders, Hawlk &Rudd, both times the faceless men have defied the wishes of the voters and elected a leader who they can control, this is despite the fact that both leaders were popular people people.

Sure, Bob was a flirt, a gambler and cheated on his wife, but that did nit effect his management, and Rudd swore and was a hard man, much the same as most business leaders.

BTW, just for the record, I loved Bob, but was not a fan of Rudd, but think he was far better than our current PM.
Furthermore, both labor governments have left us with huge debt and very low business confidence.

At the end of the day, if god himself led the libs, I doubt even he could continue to dig us out of the holes left by labor.

But it not only the holes they dig in our bank account, it's also the distrust they create in the workplace.

Right this moment they are planning to take a big stick to one of the few sectors that is propping us up, and word is that sector (coking coal) may well be on shaky grounds, no thanks to the new taxes.

Now as for Tony, he doesn't have to win any election, as labor are going to losse it.

Wobbles said; Howard gave us a dud railway.
Well any major railway is a very important infrastructure for the future.

Lexi, if things are so wonderful, why did Wayne Swan put a authority
through parliament to increase the "off balance sheet" credit limit
from $225 Billion to $250 billion ?

This the money that is being borrowed for such important work as the
carbon tax compensation and similar expenditure.
This borrowing is additional to the accumalated deficit that we have
had since 2008.

Our GDP is a measure of all financial activity, positive and negative,
and if the decreasing mining activity is subtracted then we are in
real trouble and all those percentage of GDP figures can be multiplied
by about four.

So just keep praying that China keeps paying a good price for our iron
ore and burns all our coal.