'You have clearly never bought a business, Houllie. '

Of course not Yabs, I'm working class.

I would never take the risk for those rewards. Afraid of hard work too I am, and happy enough being a sh1t kicker with no responsibility. But incidentally, I was under the impression the risk involved going bust and losing some money.

You seem to see this as unfair, and that the employee should just have to walk away with no notice if the business fails, perhaps not even getting their earned leave entitlements payed out.

Where did the employee sign up for that risk, and what are the rewards again? What responsibility does the employee have for the management decisions that made the company go bust? I have zero responsibility. I don't get paid for that.

It also seems to me it's the employer's personal money when it suits, but not for tax purposes.

That said the avoidance of tax I see as the main advantage of starting a business, and the prime motivator for people doing so.

I accept this and congratulate such spirit, but object to the crying poor and bitching about employee awards and conditions. It would be like me saying that I deserve a larger piece of the pie, without taking on the risk.

Houllie, you are not working class. You are "really smart but just
could not be bothered" class.

I have no problem with holiday pay entitlements. But I have a problem
with sick pay entitlements. If you weren't sick, you don't need them.
I have a problem with pro rata long service leave entitlements and
termination payment entitlements of so many weeks pay for every
year employed. Why should you be paid for work that you have
not yet done? they have already paid you your salary, after all.

Sometimes businesses close down through no fault of their own.
Markets change, Govts change laws and all the rest.

I see no good reason why employees should be featherbedded in luxury
whilst employers risk everything, including their house, to pay
for it.

' I have a problem
with sick pay entitlements.'

I have to agree. I find the original proposition that you may be ill for 6 days per year preposterous to begin with.

Sick? Stay Home.
Well? Go to work.

Not so hard is it? What if you have pneumonia one year and you only have 6 days. Why do you get 6 days when you're not even sick? Makes no sense at all.

'I have a problem with pro rata long service leave entitlements and
termination payment entitlements of so many weeks pay for every
year employed'

Not sure how it works. If it's part of your yearly salary, then I guess it is owed to you. It's to stop companies laying off people the day before Long Service leave accrues. But what is that anyway man, long service leave it's ridiculous.

The thing is Yabbs, long service leave is used by many couples with children, to allow them to account for the 12 weeks school holidays. 4 weeks for him and 4 weeks for her leaves couples 4 weeks short, and also no time for a holiday together.

There needs to be some mechanism, I don't even care if it's unpaid, to deal with this. It should be protected like maternity leave, that employees can take up to 4 weeks unpaid leave a year. Then do away with long service leave.

What I always struggle with is companies seem to think they need all employees there all the time in my industry, there is no such thing as part time work, and asking for leave without pay is treated like you're some kind of a pikey.

Why do companies think they need to organise work in exact units of full time employees? Don't they ever have 25.2548 man years of work to get through in a year? It's always 25 or 26 it seems.

Maybe it's something to do with being cheaper in payroll tax I don't know

*If it's part of your yearly salary, then I guess it is owed to you*

Nope Houllie, its just another little extra in the fine print.
Robert Gottliebsen highlighted the effect, during the GFC. There
was a company making specialised materials which had two sections,
one was doing well, the other was stuffed and they had to close it.
But when they added up all the termination payments involved, their
only option was to shut the whole company down and send it broke,
rather then somehow preserve the profitable part. Crazy stuff indeed.

You are quite correct about the part time thing, but that must be
specific to your company. More and more companies are using labour
hire people, as if say they lose a contract and have to scale down,
at least they can get rid of the unrequired staff and let the rest of
the company survive. But unions are pushing for all the full time
permanent that they can get. It looks good for their members in the
short term, but it hardly creates efficient companies, as ultimately
the consumer pays for people to stand around and pick their noses or
whatever.

My business was only relatively small, but I used to tell the staff
the work that needed doing and they could work as and when they wanted,
to see it got done. They also had a major say in whom I hired, as if people get
along, its a much more pleasant and productive
workplace.

as topic now has run its course
comment is that in the ground our coal etc has no value
yabby that cash you got in ya bank...is subject to the same thinking

ditto that cash
we were forced to put into pensions
it wernt value..just sitting there..so it was speculated into nothing

and govt is still propping it up
top up ya own super [govt employment is your advantage
[your govt pension is that step too far

[one person=one pension rate[any pension by govt must be definitive and equal]..
or its biased by someone wanting to get extra..wanting to capitalise the valueless

well user pays..all the way
not just getting it but repairing the damage
if it dont make things better..your lack of values..[selective greed]

if its not used...you can steal it
fox is running the hen house

ahhhh\rgghh
how criminal minds need to make excuse
its value..has value just like the COMMON..WEALTH [hoard] it is

just you taking it ...cause you can
thats theft..unless under 'just terms'
globally...one day mate..those you took nuthing FROM

will ask for a fair share of it back
death duties and transaction taxes are fair
all other is fraud