I find the Genesis story very dissatisfying. there are many plot holes and the characters are never fully fleshed out. Here is my attempt to give the characters a bit more personality. There are still many plot holes but I think it gives a better idea of what god was thinking when it all went down.

God increases productivity exponentially…. Result Questionable!

One morning well before time began god awoke and found himself bored. Wondering what the day had in store for him, as he was the only thing in existence he concluded that today would be much the same as yesterday or the day before that. Being the only thing to exist he distressed that tomorrow or the day after would also be exactly the same. To occupy himself he created light. He said “let there be light.” and there was. Anyway when light was created he had a look around, as before this he had never seen anything. He was very disappointed as this place was even more boring once illuminated. He quickly reinstated the darkness for half the time because if he had to look at the place during the times of light (which he decided to call day) he would become too depressed and perhaps contemplate suicide. The next day he awoke and again found himself bored. He sat there wondering what to do and then he decided that a bit of colour would liven up the place. So he said “let there be paint” and painted some of the vast whiteness blue. This he called sky and he promptly called dibs on it as his bedroom. After a day of painting his bed room god was rather tired and thanked his creator for the arrival of the blackness because it made it easier to sleep. That night he pondered the meaning of his existence. He thought he should create something big. All this feverish activity over the last two days had inspired him. He wondered why he had not thought of doing this in the countless eons he had already existed.

'I find the Genesis story very dissatisfying'
Many do, that is why they make up such a hideous fantasy as evolution. It takes such faith to believe in such nonsense.

Oh look. An atheist troll. How original.

Dear TC,

Good attempt - but you could have done better.
You could have made the story more interesting.
If you're going to re-write something - improve
on it. Yours is, well, how shall I put it -
a bit flat and not very imaginative.

I wrote a children's
story a few years back about a prankster spirit -
(long, long ago at the beginning of time) who could
do magical things and was one of the Great Creator's
many helpers, who had been given special powers - one of
which was the power of Creation. The problem was he
wasn't able to do as he was told... I won't say anymore -
but the kids loved the story. So I say to you -
try again. Write it again and do better this time.
Good Luck.

<<One morning well before time began god awoke>>

Already failed:

Psalms 121:4 - 'indeed, he who watches over Israel will neither slumber nor sleep".

If you stick to the Jewish version of god, then you must stick with it all the way.

It's not really possible to stick with the Jewish version all the way, though.

Compare Genesis 1:1-2:3 with Genesis 2:4-2:25. While they are similar, they reverse the order of creation and, as such, aren't entirely compatible with each other. The creation story contained in children's Bibles and taught at Sunday Schools tends to be a composite story, taking the best of each. We have the seven days of the first story, coupled with the Adam and Eve part of the second.

tc...interesting 'creation story'..but the truth is god is eternal
so lets say your story happond..[big bang]=[let there be light]

but how did there become to be 'nuthin'?
god switched off..finally allowed mankind..
to try to do the stuff he was doing..naturally

and the result was nuthin
everything stopped[space folded back onto itself..and all mass in the universe became as if nuthing..[science informs us..it was the size of a fullstop[.]

then god got curious again..and thought
lets see how you went man kind..doing things your way

he saw nuthin..then turnmed on the light
and resumed doing yet ahgain what god has been trying to do over all time[find an equal]..

ok adam wanted what the =beasts got
so god cloned him a sister..yet he was her father
but he also was her lover..hushband..and high priest[adviser of the things of god]

but adam never god what god was trying to do
anyhow he mated with his..daughter eve..[god built the tree of knowledge..of good/bad]..

the keeper of fixtures
killed his brother the keeper of fungables...

he destroyed the tree of life
and science subverted the pre-text
eve=lucy..big banbk =let light be..the science fraud
[their faux/..tree of life..since refuted as its based on taxonomy[now thoughrilly refuted by the dna..not maching the presumed evolution

the silence there alone
causes the big bang to end
cause the deep..in which god
will yet again ponder turning on the photon release..

[let there be seen[in his light]
life in the light/sustained by the light]

fixtures god grows
fungables we sheppard into growing fat[healthyy fat of contentment/giving back to god..that good..he gifts freely upon us all..

The two Genesis accounts are from two cultures, one Chaldean pre Abraham and one Hebrew, post Moses. The seven days of creation refer to days of revelation and not 24 hour periods. Days are days of light, enlightenment or revelation as the sun was not lighted till day four.

It is naive to change history to suit ones view.
Writing childish stories distorts facts.

joseph..lets focus..on the fact..
god is eternal/infinite/omnipresent
[the spirit..that sustains life long enough
that that life create a soul..that houses gods spirit..in the next life

science theo-ises..that there may have been many big bangs
expansion/contraction...change of state[next big bang]

what you call two different versions of gene-sis
might simply be the result of two sequences of past big bangs

thing is we dont know
yes one may have been channeld one version..from a spirit from a past big bang..and one from a spirit who witnessed this present one]

either way..there was a beginning
life comes from life..[and if alians begat life
;where did their life begat]..alians..outside seeding
avoids explaining how the first LIFE..came ...*from not life!

science dont expklain nuthin
it has THEORIES..but science NEEDS faulsifications[that if refuted refute the THEORY*]

name first life[by genus]
what next genus did it evolve into?

give the dna proof
how was the first cell MEMbrain..formed
[and mud bubble is theory..lol science THEORY*..

lol
.

Sorry, you're all wrong.

There was a giant galah, who mixed it with a goanna.

They fell out over a snake.

Outcome?

The snake went south to create the darkspirit land (xtians think this is Hell) and the galah flew skywards to create the lightspirit land (xtians think this is called Heaven).

The goanna was left to roam the Earth, and has evolved into humans.

Simple.

It's all absolutely true, and we know this because 1000 completely different but similar versions have been passed down in story form for at least 60,000 years, far longer than the very contemporary tale of Jesus, so all of the discussion here is pointless.

You need to get with the strength, and it's pretty obvious that the Big Galah, beginning with a G, refers to, well, you know who.

Folks - you're taking this all literally.
Goodness me - the title of this thread refers
to fiction after-all - so use your imaginations
and lighten up.

I love TBC's reference to "Dream-Time."

How about some Norse myths and legends?
Or - "Once upon a time" versions. We all have
the capacity to be story-tellers afterall -
and dream. We need to dream: souring imagination
is the glue that keeps our souls from shattering
under the impact of a prosaic world. But dreaming
can be a tricky business and if we're not careful,
can disappear altogether from our lives.

if I was going to re-write the bible, I'd change it so that the hero didn't get killed halfway into the story.

Yes Poweless,a good twist indeed.

Now, what about injecting something really offensive into the story?

You know, as with the old adage from deepest deepest 'Deliverance' Tasmania (or Qld/WA/NT)'vice is nice, but incest is best'.

We could have the hero grow up, get crucified as in the great fable, but be rescued from the tomb by the harlots of the city who hide him, feed him up and then, being harldy an Earthling in the first place, he marries his mother, producing a whole tribe of royal princes, who set out to the 12 corners of the flat Earth and begat entire nations of peoples who are forever destined to not hear a word of what their cousins say, so babbled up in religion, bigotry and stupidity as their thinking and speech is, that end times come and there are no non-sinners left to get transported up to meet the Big Galah after all.

Dear AP,

Ah, but you could reincarnate Him.
The possibilities are endless.
In story telling the only limit,
is - your imagination.

I suppose this post can be viewed as trolling but it comes from my frustration with creationists and worst of all young earth creationists. If they want to believe in the literal nature of a text there are much better ones out there to choose from. I accept that some don't believe in the literal nature of genesis but some do. My problem is that many people do not question religious texts and my "fan fiction" was a (very poor) attempt to get people to ask why the believe what they believe considering the poor quality of the text.

thecat

don't be to dissappointed. Your attempt was as scholarly as any evolutionary explanation.

Literalism has its own problems... if we're trying to define 'scholarly'.

One of my favorites is from Numbers 22 - especially the bit where the angel of the Lord spoke through his ass.

Dear TC,

Most people don't take the Bible literally.
Even Cardinal Pell described it as "symbolic."
And he's not alone. Biblical scholars interpret
the story of the Creation as a symbolic, rather
than literal account of the origin of human beings
and other living things. They don't find this
symbolic interpretation incompatible with the
findings of evolutionary biologists. For many
people, the idea that human beings evolved from
lower forms of life does not diminish the
uniqueness of human capabilities and the
accomplishments of human civilisations.

Lexi, are you saying that the goanna is a lower form of life?

Cardinal Pell also said that an atheist can go to heaven. It seems he believes little of the bible. One has to be pretty foolish to reject Jesus clear teachings.

Dear runner,

Then you be sure to not only preach -
but practice what He teaches as well

Lexi,

I did not know that you believed in the resurrected Christ. You deny the Genesis account so it surprises me that you believe Jesus words which confirm Genesis. You are extremely selective filtering what does not fit your world view.

Funny how you want to impose on me something you don't believe in. Kind of like many who want to impose a carbon tax but are really completely incompetent in defending it.

runner,

Lexi isn't trying to impose anything on you. She, like me , is obviously puzzled by the discrepancy between what you preach and what you practice. There's plenty of judgement but very little kindness emanating from you. Lexi usually endeavours to show humility and care toward fellow posters.

Just as well you aren't attempting to start your own branch of Christianity - you'd end up talking to yourself.

Poirot, runner needs a chaplain with a large listening EAR to hear his whinges and placate him.

Actually, he sounds like Pyne, Abbott and a host of other deniers, so he has his own religion and, sadly, he's far from solo.

Poirot

'There's plenty of judgement but very little kindness emanating from you'

Closer to the mark their is plenty of demonisation to anyone who speaks plainly on moral issues. You are homophobic if you are against 'gay'marriage, you are hateful when you call abortion murder and judgemental when you point out Government lies. You and Lexi might speak nicely most the time but their is a forked tongue often behind your messages. Personally I prefer people to say it as it is rather than hide behind weasel words.

Funny enough Jesus said that

(Luk 7:33) For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, He has a demon.

(Luk 7:34) The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, Behold a gluttonous man and a winebibber, a friend of tax-collectors and sinners!

In other words it did not matter how Jesus message was given (by a wowser or by Jesus) excuses were made to reject the truth.

Not fair... runner's doing his best to set an example.

Speaking of Genesis... I could never work out in the Adamic and Noahic traditions how many generations it took before there was no incest any more?

And did this include the giants and where did they come from anyway?

Speaking of which, where did they reappear from after the Flood? Were they hiding on the ark, or what?

Twenty years of bible study and more questions at the end than answers. Plus I never could find out where the contents page was and wondered how some people were so convinced they had the complete text anyway, let alone insisting on a literal belief based on a poor medieval translation of mistranslated Greek, etc. etc. etc.

I admit its influence led to lots of great music, art and architecture though... BUT tele-evangelists!

If you wish to paint the Biblical text as fiction then do not present your own unscolarly bias of the text. Id rather read a scolarly opposing view or interpretations of the text than self imposed fiction.

There are many religious people who seemingly want nothing else than for me to agree with them and follow their religion. I also would like people to change their minds and have them follow my belief system, as I believe that an atheist society would accomplish much. The problem is that they offer explanations that I cannot accept and I don’t see this changing. Likewise any evidence I offer is rejected.
I suppose a question here is appropriate. If you had to boil it down to a single factor, what is it that makes you religious? Is it fear of death/nothingness? To quote Mark Twain “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”.
Is it a means of explaining the unknown? Surely the search for knowledge is much more satisfying than chalking any piece of knowledge up to our big friend in the sky.
Anyway a favorite quote of mine is the following:
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen F. Roberts

the cat/quote..:""I suppose a question..here is appropriate.
If you had to boil it down..to a single factor,
what is it that makes you religious?""

not the stories..nor the promises
im confused that you claim religious...[what is that]
i love god..and learned much from the study of many religiouns

[found generally just a love of god..shared..is enough..
but as for ''makes you religious''..

[i detest the ritual/creed/saintly ones..proffits and
texts..that have become more important than the living good[god]

""Is it fear of death/nothingness?""

there is no fear[energy cant be created NOR destroyed]
we are flesh animated by energy..that which is our memory..is our E

Mark Twain""had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”.'

pre his being born..[so he says]..
but death isnt 'conveniant'..its inevitable
]except dead aint dead..its transmutaion of E


""Is it a means of explaining the unknown?""

what?...dead..or dead not meaning morte?

""Surely the search for knowledge
is much more satisfying..than chalking any piece of knowledge..
up to our big friend in the sky.""

thats the trick..those who cant concieve
an eternal living loving good..so god [E}..is in all living things..

sustaining ALL living things..to live..
every living creature..[in fact..*where life is*..[the life sustaining good is..!

life's prime cause=E

""athiests..just believe in one fewer god than you do.""

thats simple..i like it..
but by being simple..dont imply a rule..to live by..anywhere near as powerfull as..'love god by trying to love 'other'[that love you gave to the least[ye gave to good[god]

""When you understand""

good..[god]..in everything
you just might find the good in you

many ''excuses'..for athism..refute things religions do!

ignore thy brothers sin..[ignorance]

..but dont reject the one true good
sustaing you..[we]..us/your[our]..lives

what does it hurt to believe
ONLY in the supreeem unity of all good..is god made whole..[holy whole]

<<There are many religious people who seemingly want nothing else than for me to agree with them and follow their religion.>>

Beware, TheCat, you may find that you are more religious then them!

How foolish it is to ask someone else to follow your religion: everyone's religion is unique; their religion leads THEM towards God, which is well and good, but why should the same acts and the same thoughts lead you as well?

It is like you want to meet your friend at a certain place and they tell you: "Go 35.2Km in a 14.33 degrees north-north-east direction". However, that's only how they get to the spot from their place and as your house is elsewhere, your path is different. If you went 35.2 kilometers in a 14.33 NNE direction, you would end up nowhere!

Belief is only one religious technique among many. It suits some but not others, so watch it - perhaps your atheism leads you closer to God faster than their belief leads them.

<<If you had to boil it down to a single factor, what is it that makes you religious?>>

You had enough of the world and its painful illusions. Feeling sick of the lie of existence and tired of appearances, you turn to search for the ultimate, unchanging Truth beyond.

No ghosts, demons, deities, spirits, angels or devils exist.

There's not one shred of proof, or even one shred of evidence, for the existence of any supernatural life whatsoever ... religious superstitions are all 100% belief based.

Mankind is still at a very primitive stage of it's intellectual biology. Ancient cultures invented various deities, in mankind's image (the Christian deity for example) as an explanation for what they didn't understand. "Some" of mankind still believes in these various ancient, uneducated superstitions.

We have a long way to go, and until science can provide ALL the answers regarding existence (that may take many dozens of thousands of years), then the various religious superstitions will likely linger on. At the moment, the 2 main superstitions are Islam and Christianity. Within 5,000 years they'll both be replaced by other superstitions, and those replacements will themselves be replaced .... and so it goes on. The primitive, superstitious beliefs of mankind will continue for quite some time yet.

<<No ghosts, demons, deities, spirits, angels or devils exist>>

Science may not agree: those demons, long suspected of leading us astray and afflicting our character, were finally located and discovered to be... our genes!

(earlier, science also discovered germs and viruses, a.k.a. devils)

You seem to hypothesize what science will find within the next 5000 years, but for that you need to run experiments and once you run them, who knows what else science is going to discover next!

(perhaps some elementary particles formerly described as 'angels'?)

Religion was always saying: "Don't listen to your demons", now translated into modern/scientific terms, it becomes "Don't listen to your genes", yet for all practical purposes, nothing has changed and what the sages of old told us then, still holds true today!

Dear runner,

You have the tendency to arrogantly think that your
beliefs are the "right and only way" and any one who may
disagree with them is bad. You have a tendency to
judge, to blame, your posts are often angry and
you tend to make judgements and assumptions about
people you don't even know.
That to me is not the behaviour of a self-proclaimed
Christian. I would not dream of imposing my views onto
you - and I would appreciate it if you did the same
as far as I (and others on this forum) are concerned.

I actually don't bother reading many of your posts -
because frankly they're not that interesting. Anyway,
you are entitled to your opinion - just as the rest of
us are entitled to ours. And quite frankly what anyone
does or does not believe is none of your business - and
please don't try to assume that you have the qualifications
to try to convert any of us to your blinkered, narrow-minded
point of view.

FP72E,...read lexies post
she like you has closed her mind to new info

made a blanket call..
much like you..''No ghosts,demons,
deities,spirits,angels or devils exist.""

and your so sure
you like her wount bother reading the truth...
or willing to test your faith/hope/bias/fear/hate..is true

there are many books available
but you wont read any...lol

try refuting dr carl wickland
[30 years ammoung the dead]

the proof was in print..way back in 1924]
its now pdf..but heck easier to accept the lies of other science[that allows you to simply ignore proof..[thanks lexie and sgt shultz]

No ghosts, demons,deities,
spirits, angels or devils exist....lol
you got proof of this of course..please prove you egsist

give us the first life..[from non life]..
its genus will do...[next give us..what genus 'it' evolved into
next reveal the dna..not taxonomic evidence[taxonomy has been proved fraud

that critter[with feet of clay]..is evolution
[the normal thing for your type to do ..is say they cant make sense of the post..others like yopu...simply run away..and the topic ends

but thats fine..its on the record
you spake from ignorance/bias/fear or hope
but your wrong..[but thats right]..you refuse to read the proof anyhow

lol

that beinbg said much info is being spouted
much like the delusions/fear..of those rejecting that all knowing vile god that judges people

[ie santa claws..perverted even the saviours birth day]..
man is man..not god..god is the sum total of truth..[good]
because lies are faulse..only our belief made them real for us

and so it is with demons/angels
ginn[demon]..are adicted to possesing your flesh..to meet its desires of ythe floesh[see he/ashe..can only realise a lie..in the oplace of lies]

in heaven lies only the truth
buit cause fears hates etc ..needs its own place..we got this realm and hell..[but these states are states of materialistic bias]..based on hurt or faulsity...thus essentially not good from god

but its only too easy to sing up demons
by driving away the angel..[by thinking vile the vile comes]
and as light dispells the darkness...your wish for darkness..must be respected by the bearor of light

but its pearl before swine
ya stopped reading ..like lexie dont read runner
its sad..cause just rejecting the concept...that alone drives the angels away[they work by respecting your will]

but demons dont sweat on niceities..they follow the viule thought and pile in far more[do the simple test...think of a vile thought[instantly..they feed you many more]..its almost like they se the darkness reppear..as the light of reasion is driven away

but you would never read the free text gone west..ot facts..or any other thing..cause your mind is closed[you know it al]..yet realise you know..the lies of demons

get science to make just one life[from not life]
if survival of the fittest teaches anything..
its that..the fit live longer
yet both lived..

both living things..came from living parents..
passed on the gift of life..thus ifs offspring survived
science cant make life..it cant make a cell membrane..

its mainly based on looks like [phenotype]..not gene evolution proved..via definitive dna...linkage..[ie genotype]

oh well welcome to the silence
as yet another athiest takes his blue p[ill]

eye see nuthin
mind sees nuthing
nose knows nuthing

FP72E,
If you believe in a polytheistic world view ghosts, demons, deities, spirits, angels or devils exist to explain the events of the universe; which was the case in NT times.

However Christianity was born in Hebrew culture with a political controlling Greco-Roman culture with recent Persian influence. However Christianity is monotheistic and those ideas are to be exorcised from the mind. There is but one sovereign spirit behind the universe that created all things. The mind of man is the only opposing creating immoral force in this creation.

Science has given support to the existence of unity of one mind in the Universe, and people like Louis Pastuer dispelled the idea that sickness was associated with demons with the discovery of bacteria. How people understand the universe has changed but the observeable facts have not changed.

UOG thinks he has "proof" that his deity exists. I just love it when the believers in superstition try to "prove" that their mythical supernatural creatures exist. They clearly have no "faith and belief". Why? Because they try to seek "proof".

The fact is, all religious superstitions are based 100% on faith and belief. Why? Because there's no proof, or even evidence ... just faith and belief.

I've read, a long time ago, ALL of UOG's so called proof. It's all been totally discredited, word for word, and the only people who believe such rubbish are people who "believe" anyway.

Christians and Muslims who are severely lacking in their faith and belief, get very offended when it's pointed out to them: People like UOG. They can't accept that their beliefs are just that, "beliefs".

Mankind is still very primitive, extremely primitive, and until science provides all the answers to existence, "some" people will continue to cling to ancient, uneducated superstitions.

as i thought
ya got nuthin

yopu claim refutal
present the link

clearly ya got no idea re the science

lol

Some form of religion has existed in every society
that we know of. Religious beliefs and practices are so
ancient that they can be traced into prehistory, perhaps more
than - 100,000 years ago. Even the primitive Neanderthal
people of that time, it seems, had some concept of a
supernatural realm that lay beyond everyday reality.

Among the fossilized remains of these cave dwellers,
anthropologists have found evidence of funeral ceremonies in
the form of flowers and artifacts that were buried with the
dead, presumably to accompany them on the journey to an
afterlife.

Although religion is a universal social institution, it
takes a multitude of forms. Believers may worship gods,
ancestors, or totems; they may practice solitary
meditation, frenzied rituals, or solemn prayer.
Many definitions have been offered in the past, but most
of the ones we are familiar with have been bbiased by
ethnocentric Judeo-Christian ideas about religion.

These ideas are based on a number of central beliefs:
that there exists one supreme being or God: that God
created the universe and all life and takes a continuing
interest in the creation: that there is a life hereafter,
and that our moral behaviour in this life influences our
fate in the next.

In cross-cultural terms, however, this particular
combination of beliefs is unusual. Many religions do not
recognise a supreme being, and a number do not believe
in gods at all. Several religions ignore questions about
the origins of the universe and life, leaving these
problems to be dealt with instead by nonreligious myth.

Many religions assume that the gods take little interest
in human affairs. Some have almost nothing to say about life
after death, and many - do not link our earthly morality with
our fate beyond the grave.

Obviously, religion cannot be defined in terms of Western
religious tradition alone.

cont'd ...

cont'd ...

Emile Durkheim, one of the first sociologists to
study religion, pointed out that a single feature
common to all religions: a sharp distinction between
the sacred and the profane. In other words that
religion is a system of commonly shared beliefs and rituals
that are originated towards some sacred, supernatural
realm.

Durkheim pointed out that, whatever their source, the
rituals enacted in any religion enhanced the solidarity
of the community as well as its faith. Consider such
religious rituals as baptism, bar mitzvah, weddings, Sabbath
services, Christmas and Easter mass, and funerals. Rituals
like these serve to bring people together, to remind them
of their common group membership, to
re-affirm their traditional values, to maintain prohibitions
and taboos, to offer comfort in times of crisis, and in
general, to help transmit the cultural heritage from one
generation to the next.

In fact Durkheim argued, shared religious beliefs and the
rituals that go with them are so important that every
society needs a religion, or at least some belief system
that serves the same functions.

For many yeayrs it was widely felt that as science
progressively provided rational explanations for the
mysterieis of the universe, religion would have less and
less of a role to play and would eventually disappear
unmasked as nothing more than superstition.

But there are still gaps in our understanding that science
can never fill. On the ultimately important questions -
of the meaning and purpose of life and the nature of
morality - science is silent, and by its very nature, always
will be.

Few citizens of modern societies would utterly deny the
possibility of some higher power in the universe, some
supernatural, transcendental realm that lies beyond the
boundaries of ordinary experience, and in this fundamental
sense religion is probably here to stay.

FP72E,
Please explain how matter came into existence or how DNA came into existence in a sterile environment by science.

he isnt going to reply josephus
read his words

first context..

QUOTE..""..I just love it
when the believers in superstition
try to "prove" that their mythical supernatural creatures exist...

..""*They clearly have no "faith and belief".""

lol

""Why?..Because they try to seek "proof".""

see he dont seek proof of nuthin
he has full faith in his diss-belief..

""The fact is,""..without any proof at all...
""all religious superstitions are based 100% on faith and belief.""

lol
not based on scrolls//nor thoughts nor writing..or deep thought
""ALL ARE BASED 100%...lol...on faith.../belief""

""Why? Because there's no proof,""

sgt shultz sees nothing[needs no proof]
hasnt sought it mind..dismisses the whole concept

lol
no proof,..""or even evidence
... just faith and belief.""

jesus said that without works
faith is usweless

HOW ABOUT THIS INSANITY
..""I've read,a long time ago,
ALL of UOG's so called proof."""

ohhhh dear
thats clearly a lie
""ALL...of ougs proofs""

he never heard of strickland till 5 minutes before postying his lie

now instead of specifics..he goes general

""It's all been totally discredited,""

genericly..[but just in case you dont get grand egsajuration note

""word for word,""

lol

""and the only people
who believe such rubbish..are people who "believe" anyway.""

and only ignorant fools
who refuse to try to decide true..from faulse...see nuthing
refuse seeing any proof..its sad but the ignorant just keep spoutinbg their ignorance..get some learning..give proof of evolution out of genus..NAME 1ST life from non life..no way..run away

lolloloolololol

""Christians and Muslims..who are severely lacking""

not just lacking..but 'SERVERLY LACKLING""..lol

""in their faith and belief,
get very offended when it's pointed out to them:""

by numbnutts who got no proof of conmcept
yet stil blather on absiurdities..like evolution out of genus

""They can't accept
that their beliefs are just that,.."beliefs".""

lol
as is your faith and dis belief..in your faithlesness..lol
you take it on faith..HOPING science is right..but never egsamined the science...lol


some..will mindlessly..cling to faith in evolution
as a science..but at bests its a taxonomic theory

as the quaran says..[first make just one like it]
to wit one living thing..lol from nuthing

Dear Johan (OUG),

Mr Thwackum, a character in Henry Fielding's novel,
"Tom Jones," declares, "When I mention religion, I
mean the Christian religion; and not only the Christian
religion, but the Protestant religion; and not only
the Protestand religion, but the Church of England."

Many people are like Mr Thwackum when they mention
religion, they have their own in mind.

Whatever our religious beliefs may be, we usually
learn them from other people through socialisation into
a particular faith (or through re-solcialisation if
we convert from one faith to another). The religious
convictions that anyone holds are thus influenced by
the historical and social context in which that person
happens to live.

The fact that a religious doctrine is culturally learned
does not necessarily put its "truth" in question. What
this cultural variety does mean, however, is that there
are a large number of religions, many of whose members
are convinced that theirs is the one true faith and that
all others are misguided, superstitious, even wicked.

None of us are really competent to investigate the
supernatural or play umpire between cometing faiths.
None of us really know that much about the theological
aspects of religion. Even sociologists direct their
research into social rather than the theological aspects.

Most Western Christians, being white, tend to think of
both God and Jesus as white. The idea of a black God is
almost unimaginable to them, and portraits of Jesus
frequently present him as a blond Caucasian rather than
the person of Semitic features he no doubt was. In many
African churches, on the other hand, statues and portraits
of Jesus show him with dark, Negroid features.

I am a believer.
I believe the word would be a better place with out the myth of religions.
Or if we must ,invent one single one for us all.
I stayed away, only thought about even looking in.
Thought the first post a bit insulting.
I see no need to target every believer, some invite it.
But just must say this,true believers rarely give any credence to belief of others.
Hence lets re invent the invention and make one huge straw for us all to clutch so humanity,at last can be one.

thanks lexie...having the elite lok like the natives..is a basic thing
one of the funiest 'discoveries'..of mine was how hrh..image..[on nz stamps]..more resemble the first people..than her true features,..

the lable 'religion'..is a myth
each church has its sects[and that was what jesus came to fix]
he came to unite the people[like john before him]..back to the one father

the fathers house seems divided
yet across all creeds..[including the athiest creed's]there are those who gasp...its good works/charity..that alone can return those caught up in creed/back to the father..

its not important..to our father
its important to us..[of all creed's
following the tao[path/way]..of their particular messenger

all paths..[that seek the good]..lead to god
heaven is free from sects..jesus didnt die for our sins
sin is suicide..[but at the higher level..who the bigger sin
one who does a sillyness..or one who judges..the other as sinner

its the wholesale snap decisions
made in ignorance..as you put
but such is by choice..and free choice is sacrosanct[spiritually determiativly speaking..if a goat is to herd..with other goats..he must first learn..'he is a goat'..from there on its easy

all goats follow the same tao[path]
so goat paths rightly begin at whatever logos..the goat path fails

from then they must see they arnt goat..[in fact werrnt ever goats]..
but not till walking its ways..did we real-ise..
it wernt even a path leading somewhere..it was just a tao[way]..path to goat greatness

its not till ya look arround
see the goats..that some see heck that goat image..thats just not me

and just being a goat is just fine [for goats]
but telling sheep they are goats..thats a mortal sin
the lower hells are full of those..who deecieved goats
away from the head goat..or whatever type of ';head' truth they fully be..

good for gods sake
then not realkly for his/her..sake
as much as those recieving our good..that they seek doing..better..

Dear Belly,

Your last post reflects what I feel.
If we could only remove from our hearts
the illusion that we are separate.
I would wish every nation and every people
and every colour and every religion to find
at last the one heartbeat we share.

I look forward to the possibility of this in
the future - at least for my grandchildren.

Dear Johan (OUG),

Goodwill towards all is a true religion.

lexie..good will to all forms of belief?
indeed is all science of good will?

do they all plan
good will to us all[or just some]

the highest call is a call to charity
[that we do for other..we did for god]

and church[or rather more specificly lol[generally spoeaking religions..seems to be doing less and less with more and more govt assistance

[seems charity isnt doled out in cents to poverty
but midle class agencies wanting dollars..huge dollars
they mostly put into trust fund's

its not what others did or didnt do..
but what we specificly chose to do

i see in evbery living thing the spirit of our creator..sustaining its its life/living..then we get ignorants..

that claim things like evolution in ignorance..
of how that dont refute god..but only reveals..the ignorance by faith..by many chosing ignorance genericly via called idoletry

[faith by looks like[phenotype]....called science..
[if science talks only in species..not genus..[it distorts half the story into lie]..if it relies on aslian dna..[and dont present dna proof..its caught up in past lies[like taxonomy]

but its so easy to appear clever[by supporting faith in science]
yet remain completly ignorant..of the works needed to affirm it..

that cant be done..cause
its a theory..of science..not pure science..[dealing in faulsifyable fact]..just faith in others opinions[just as imaginative as the alian or commet theory..of how dna/cell membrains got here..

its sad its so easy
to go with those who seem to be..the clever guys
but only cause peer revieuw..dont question its creeds
they are as fixed in stone as any creed can be..[peer revieuw peauew]

Dear Johan (OUG),

I did say - "Goodwill towards all," there is a
difference there in meaning. "Do unto others,"
"Love your neighbour ..." "Treat others as you
want to be treated," and so on. I'm sure you get the
picture.

Dear Johan (OUG),

Many people don't accept the theory of evolution
because it conflicts with their religious beliefs.
Judaism, Christianity, and a number of other
religions teach that God is the sole guiding force
in the universe. According to the Bible, God is the
Creator, Sustainer, and Ultimate End of all things.
The wide variety of forms of life is interpreted
as a reflection of His love and inspiration. The
Bible also states that human beings were created in the
image of God and thus were elevated above all other
forms of life.

Some people find it difficult to reconcile these
views with the concept that life on earth has
evolved through natural processes.
Some people also feel that evolutionary theory conflicts
with the Bible's teachings regarding the reality of sin
and of redemption from sin. They believe that sin tends
to become mere imperfection if humans are seen to be
in the process of evolving from a lower state, and thus
the Gospel of redemption from the guilt of sin tends to
lose meaning.

However, as I've stated in the past, many people accept
the basic principles of evolution within the framework of
their religious beliefs. For example, Biblical scholars
interpret the story of Creation as a symbolic, rather
than a literal account of the origin of human beings and
other living things. They do not find this symbolic
interpretation incompatible with the findings of
evolutionary biologists. And I'll state once again, that
for many people, the idea that human beings evolved from
lower forms of life does not diminish the uniqueness
of human capabilities and the accomplishments of human
civilisations.

lexie/quote..""Some people find it difficult to reconcile these
views with the concept that life on earth has
evolved through natural processes.""

nature must belong to god[as opposed to mans claim 'to' science]
we know science never 'evolved' ANY change of genus[thus its theory]

i feel bias is biasing..the science
some need a god free excuse so think sacience dun it all[it didnt do nuthing]..ok gmo..it did that[yet used gods natural genes]..ok it made antibiotic resistance..but god made the bacteria resisting sciences best shot

recall that professing teacher of docters
mutating vbacteria into bacteria[thats evolution
[WITHIN ITS PARENTAL GENUS*..like making like just like itself..[dog from dog..pea from pea

the lie is new genus
so many brag about their theoiry
but so many dont got no clue of science method
[comprehend what the theory promises..but will never deliver

""Some people also feel that evolutionary theory conflicts
with the Bible's teachings"""[till they explain..HOW GOD DUN IT..they too have only faith..in a theory

""regarding the reality of sin
and of redemption from sin.""

isnt relitive to evolution's theory
science is much like a true xtian..in that
they claim nothing..as truelly vile..

[no vile they
ok SOME..wouldnt do]

""Biblical scholars..interpret
the story of Creation as a symbolic, rather
than a literal account of the origin of human beings and
other living things.""

its a kids version of how/what god is said to have done
we then go out into life..and see it first hand
yes some of gods creations look like they are related..-phenotype]..but yet not by dna proof genotype[only by the same hand of their creator]

think of it like science saying men can fly
yet leave out in an airoplane..[science has a concept..but not the science proof..nor the means to evolve itself beyond hopw it looks[taxonomic clasiofication is revealed science fraud

""They do not find this symbolic
interpretation incompatible with the findings of
evolutionary biologists.>>""

of course not
it egsists..

how it came to egsist..science theorises
yet cant name first life from non life...etc
nor suply the genes/dna.. to prove its their evolving

OUG I have danced the dance before where I say X and it is rejected and someone says Y and I reject that, however I have just finished my masters in medical biotechnology and all I will say is that I will not misrepresent religion by misrepresenting the knowledge I have of the subject.

Dear Johan (OUG),

I don't want to argue with you on this issue.
I don't see the point. As we all know people
in different walks of life may interpret the
same phenomenon - whether it is a PM's policies,
a religious doctrine, or a political scandal - in
very different ways. In other words, people tend
to see the world from a viewpoint of subjectivity -
an interpretation based on personal values and
experiences.

Inevitably all of us will be guilty of some
measure of bias - the tendency, often unconscious,
to interpret facts according to our own values.

I've expressed my views on the topic - from my
subjective point of view. You have expressed yours.
Both of our views have been presented as a matter of
personal opinion. It's been interesting - however
for me now this subject has run its course and I have
nothing more to add. See you on another thread.

I think FP72E, at the top of page 7, summed things up very accurately. Great post FP, well done. Religious belief is - - - belief.

nojh..yes belief
that people have in lue of fact

so you have 'fact'?
how did the first cell form by accident

what is the first 'living' genus
what is it that genus first evolution..[into what NEW 'evolved' genus]

present dna proof

think ol mate
if you dont got fact..you got theory
and thats what those WITH FAITH in science 'theo-ry'..have

if you dont know the science
AT BEST you only got just..another faith..in another theory

the theory is the theory of evolution of SPECIES
not evoplution into new genus..that is implied and accepted BY FAITH..by those who 'like the idea' of a godless creation theory

but the facts dont back it up
eg show this half coldblood/have warmblood evolution
[that un-namable thing][not cold..not warm..ie faith]

till your able to present faulsifyable fact
[which if disproved..invalidates the theory]

heck just present one faulsifyable fact
or were the waters of the deep salty or fresh water
or how about plants/animals symbiology..[who without the other die]

how life began..science dont know
hasnt replicated...and not one evolution ..into a new genus
has ever been observed or reported

[natural selection alone..proves it wernt science what dun it]

natural/nurture..belongs to nature[god]..
its not science method]..ignorants have faith it is
and are too ignorant to look for any other solution..let alone study[or supply relivant facts]

Religion especially Christianity is not merely belief about a person or God but belief in a life and attitude we are to emulate, to posess to live and to follow. God is Spirit as motive and attitude are spiritual not a physical historical being, though expressed in His physical Creation.

It is ininformed to just believe people assent to a reality (actual or immagined) as defining a Christian person.

You cannot say a person is a Buddahist unless he practises the teachings of Buddah. Merely mentally assenting to the reality of Buddah and claiming to believe in Buddahism does not define one as a Buddahist.

Dear Josephus,

I think that the point that some people are trying to
make regarding some Christians (or any other religion
for that matter) is that - it's all well and good
to feel that one is on the right path, however problems
arise when one tries to enforce that path onto others
believing that yours is the only right path.

And of course as I've stated in the past to one
particular poster who makes judgements and assumptions
about others on this forum:

"I think God would prefer an honest and righteous atheist
to a preacher whose every word is God, God, God, God,
and whose every deed is foul, foul, foul, foul."

Lexi,
A person would not be considered a committed follower unless they believed it was the right way, the right truth, the right life. Otherwise they are merely an observer of perhaps what they assume good ideas.

"I think God would prefer an honest and righteous atheist
to a preacher whose every word is God, God, God, God,
and whose every deed is foul, foul, foul, foul."

So you pass judgment on people you disagree with and whose life and actions you do not observe! If you observe their actions as so foul then be honest and condemn them to their face.

Dear Josephus,

I don't pass judgement on anyone's beliefs (providing
those beliefs don't hurt others) - merely on
the actions of individuals within those religious
institutions. Kindly re-read my previous post.

A vital healthy society is not one in which we all
agree. Without personal commitment to the attributes
of fair play and integrity our nation is in grave
danger. Malice and intolerance stalk our society staking
claim to our minds and not one corner of our social
order is unaffected. This darkness is a significant
threat to our national good, perhaps the most significant
threat in our history for it strikes at the heart
of democracy. Where people are not free to disagree,
there can be no democracy, since that is what democracy is.

There is a tendency on so many people's parts to think that
their way is the right way and that people who disagree with
them are bad. Many of the things that most of us were
brought up to think "could never happen here," have already
begun to happen: dangerous scapegoating, violent hate crimes,
small-minded intolerance for the views of others.

It is therefore important that we renew dignified and
respectful dialogue with those who do not agree with us than we
keep slavisly congratulating those who have the wisdom to
see things our way.

I hope that this clarifies things for you.

See you on another thread.