All three posts seem to fail to under stand mine.
Fester first, apprentices have always gone to better paddocks after finishing,to learn new and different skills.
Labor trains more but the truth is privatization is killing training.
Government once trained the majority and they,as is good, got head hunted by private firms, it is them who are not training.
SM sorry you make me grin.
Banjo, not the whole but far too many.
OK lets be open, do not feel sorry for me,I have been damaged, one day will say how, BECAUSE MY UNION COMES FIRST.
My posts are meant, the thread is meant, to say let both groups reform, IT IS NOT GOOD FOR LABOR/UNIONS to be so closely linked!
Both should stand on their own, in a year of reform, a year we face another 11/11 as in 1975, we turn our backs on middle Australia.
HSU stinks, it reeks, it is foulest by its betrayal of the rank and file.
An awful thing.
Union members stand in line to say they disapprove of this shambles.
This is an opportunity,to restore that word, not hide behind it,solidarity.
Sit this bloke in the other benches open up the report re invent that union and have blood on the sword.
Take no prisoners ,those guilty are the enemy's of every trade unionist and the ALP
Act or face 23 years on the wrong side of the house, how will putting Abbott in the seat help us?
Workers united? it is far past time for words, leadership is needed now.

Belly,
Glad to see you stand on principle, yeah there can be no compromise.
I have been in similar situation as the woman and it is not good, but if one has principle it has to be done. The sooner the better.

I agree about apprentices. I can recall governments bragging about the number of apprentices they had each year. Water board and Public works and so on. All gone now.

Governments and private enterprise both have neglected work training for years. I remember Telstra closing linesmen training schools (3) in NSW, just to make the bottom line look better before privaatising. cheaper to imprt labour than train our own, but short sighted. Once I could call local Telsta about a fault and tell him where I thought it was. Now get connected to Bombay, cant speak english let alone know the area. Going backwards.

Banjo yes, on both issues.
It comes down to this, in 1975, I a union delegate, was offered an officials job.
Again in 1985, then again in 1999.
Each time I ,union to the bone, said no.
I did not think I was good enough.
I said yes in about 2002, and proved my self wrong.
Each time the offer was from my union.
After it became heart breaking, but imposable to work for a workplace BULLY, my last boss.
I was offered a job in that other union, fit for it, able even with my current health issues too make it work well.
I stuck by my life time view, more harm comes via radical unionism than good.
People who never worked on the factory floors rarely understand.
But the respect in the words of a member in trouble is gold.
ONLY THE BEST SHOULD SERVE
And what is in your heart not your pocket that matters.
Hiding the truth, is far harsher than being the first to tell members about it.
Unions need no lie just honesty, but never charge them all with things like this.

My detractors on the Conservative side do not concern me.
It is those on my side who play the Conservative game so well who do.
Abbott is not the first Liberal Leader who farmed half truths and negativity.
It is a standard issue tool in the once Liberal kit.
They cover their bad boys much more professionally than Labor.
Former Ministers,Even Deputy Prime Ministers, quietly slip out of politics,to save being held accountable,for actions no less than this.
We, Labor/Unions, lack the professionalism to make such as these disappear.
On my side, fueled by thoughts of a solidarity not earned ,to the people involved,the party union, and in an effort to hide truth.
We fail.
We fail to remember why the union and party exists,those who seek to cover not fix,are traitors.
We should be talking about other things.
Abbott should be telling us why Nanny's will not be an impost on the tax payer,why he wants those on $150.000 a year to get baby support.
He should tell us the costs of his carbon capture plans, and who pays it.
We should be debating the over all costs of boat refugees, and what truly is the answer.
I want to know is Abbott truly going to risk our relation ship with Indonesia?
HSU is and always will be wrong, feeding on the membership fees is and always will be wrong.
I earned the right to expect better in a country hamlet Yanderra, holding my dads hand at age 8 as he handed out Labor HTV spit running down his face from a Tory who was to regretted it after.
Labor has a product that sells its self unions too, HSU is an anchor to both, let it sink. face the truth.
We need no rats in our ranks, Conservatives are breeding them for us.

If my fellow travelers can not see the need to never let this take place again I am lost.
Did we know about this man? before selecting him?
Is union leadership all it takes to get a seat?, even over better candidates?
It is not our board rooms that are hurt by this.
Out in the Field, both groups,we are hurting.
Some unionists will forever,even without need, be unsure of their union.
Within the Labor branches,far too sticky and trained to focus on our enemy, not those we want to come,and refresh our party.
The claims against Torys will be backed.
But my highlighting out faults will brand me.
WHY?
Is Labor not better than that, where is the reform?
I know,with certainty,we are going to reform and regrow.
It is A very deep hole we inhabit, by far the better policy's.
And zero ability to sell them.
Except to our selves.
Do we uncover our faults, or are we forever to subject our selves to Conservatives and grubby Medea doing it for us.
The rich powerful, and self interested feed on us.
We must understand this is 1975 and we are helping our own defeats.
Take this on board, press not all but most are activly campaigning for Conservatives.
They did in 1974/75.
If this had been Conservative scandal, we would see it on page ten very little of it.
In such a world solidarity is not about feeding our enemy's,those we protect here are rats in out ranks.

Belly

If your example were the standard, Labor would not have a problem. My beef is that both major parties have engaged in far too high a rate of population growth. Ultimately the cost of this policy has impacted on training and welfare programs. With the resultant revenue shortfalls, management of resources becomes the key selection criterion for government. Labor's wastage on ER, NBN , CT, and boat people policy to name the majors, instead of concentrating on core values, has greatly damaged the cause. The Craig Thompson affair is just a side show, and would not have blown up like it has without all the other stuff ups.