First I am totally a supporter of the Police.
But deeply concerned at the growing herd mentality.
And aware of the stick together culture of our police.
In both Vic and NSW the past two decades have seen deaths that appear to be needless, and an apparent failure to investigate them.
Did 6 Police armed with capsicum and Tasers truly need to confront one unarmed man?
Said at first to have stolen a packet of biscuits.
Even old England sent such criminals here not killed them.
Now, we must wait for the whole truth, or the still in construction version of it.
But the shop owner says the man did not steal the biscuits, it was some one else.
And witnesses say the man was mearly running away while calling for help.
I fear the emerging culture within police forces.
One of impressing other officers.
A thousand story's exist, just one of mine.
* at the scene of a fatal car smash all present upset, a policeman, one of twenty on site ran past me.
Screaming stop that scum bag!
He never did, un aware he had even been called such, a state member of Parliament, Nationals, had committed a crime, driving with phone to ear*

Belly I have to agree with you.Last night in a well known large up market pub on the Northern Beaches,10 police and a sniffer dog walked into the Pub in a very intimidating manner.Some people bolted for the toilets.No one was arrested.

We don't need this police state mentality they have in the USA.They won't arrest the criminals with guns who daily do drive by shootings in Sydney but will come after a few pot users who do no harm.

I've seen police back down from the intimidation of Lebanese Criminal gangs.It is well known that the bikies run Kings Cross and the drug rackets,prostitution there but nothing is done.The ordinary hard working citizen is the milking cow for both criminals and Govt.Can you see a difference?

Arjay I am not targeting police doing their job, entering that pub that way is ok by me.
I live in a community that knows its police,and on the whole gets on well with them.
A good cop is worth far more than his her weight in Gold, more to a community than we can pay.
This mornings SMH has a story on this subject, it says being tasered is like haveing your spinal cord cut.
And the they are taking the place of Negotiating skills.
I think its true, but too that ,as is the case in any group, a culture, not unlike the unpleasant ones of past football bad behavior exists.
Walk in to a group of police, at a smash scene,or just on the street.
You can become the target of a game that goes too far,ego driven to show of.
Murders,no other word for it,take place,and rumors an officer used the gun but thought it was the taser.
You can bank on a cover up.
arjay I understand your thoughts and no doubt bashings and such happen in those areas, but I can not buy the police state stuff.
I think the drug dealers and their bosses are vermin,and often police or politicians,even as in the 70,s very rich men.
And its world wide not just here
Another story in the SMH, think it was there, this morning tells of great sums of money being sent over seas, by our police.
Uncovering corruption and police high ranked politicians involvement.
That will never change, unless we legalize drugs.
Prostitution?
Legalize it totally, take the drugs and pimps out of it take it off the streets.
But stop police bashing,stop them killing unarmed people, train them to handle the mentally impaired.
And leave them with tasers, but make them honestly accountable for their every action.
No police who cover up a crime in their ranks is worth while and should be in prison.

death by police
at least one per week
lets add in death in custody
and that die...for what[cause police can]

recall the thursday islander
his liver ripped in two...cause he 'fell'
the list is endless...but when did the rum core refine its abuse to an art..

death by police..numbers hundreds of 1000's globally
heck ten of thousands since invasion day

eurika stockade..was an early version of it
but how many blacks alone..[you know what fill 3/4 of the preison population]..the rest poor...plus a few whiite collar crims..the rest bail defaulters..or violating an 'order'

soon shoot you
[ok haze/taze..you
for a bald tyre or jaywalking

its a proffesion
what do the proffes to serve
or rather who....[when not revenue raising..or arresting protestors]

bah
a few bad apples
and the core [corpse]..is rotten

to its rummy core

One problem is the number of police that have been killed in the last five to ten years.

In a gun fight of old, it was kill or be killed, now it more a case of what can we do to save this person, often at the cost of police lives.

Police are on edge now, even when they pull a driver over.

Locking cop killers up fo LIFE, never to be released, would be one place to start.

If you threaten violence, then you should expect violence in return.

As I have always said to my kids, the best way to avoid any situation, is to not be there, as prevention is always better than cure.

Unfortunately, most problems stem from poor parenting, but try telling the do-gooders that.

Belly & rehctub,
We've found some common ground on this one.

Well it is not my point Rechtub, yes I agree too many police are murdered on duty.
And life should be life for such crimes always.
And I mentioned drugs and prostitution because both generate corrupt police and politicians.
Truly legalize both and get it out of any criminals hands.
It can be said sentencing is weak, and the costs of imprisonment may be one reason.
But we tend to look more at the criminals rights than the victim.
Police have always committed such crimes, in every country I know about.
That changes nothing, it remains wrong, it is my view the latest an unarmed young man, was murdered.
And I believe, as is normal, police have already changed every truth they need to, to cover up as much of this crime as they can.
IT IS the culture, if you are *in the job * it covers you.
A lot of my information comes from mates.
In the NSW police force.
Try if you will, but a good cop MUST ignore a lot or go under!
A story about deaths in custody or cell deaths, unarmed killing by aremed officers, even the non police killing in America currently of great concern.
Can be found some place in the world about every hour.
We can do better, remember, not every victim even had a criminal record.
My thoughts are with those who lost this latest young man from another country, his crime, not being a thief!
Not being armed! being frightened!

But we tend to look more at the criminals rights than the victim.
Belly,
That is just so true. Our present system does not afford any benefit of doubt to the victim but gives a double dose to the perpetrator. I called the Civil libertarian office for some advice & was told "sorry, we're on the other side of the fence, we're criminal defence lawyers" .
Ain't that just great. The Government funds the crime but lets the victims go broke in the pursuit of justice. Heil ?? !

but will come after a few pot users who do no harm.
Arjay,
don't blame the Police for that. They don't have any say in whom or what to pursue. The shifty judges & lefty do-gooders et al are the ones who prevent the Police from policing properly. The Police is forced to watch a thief stashing stolen goods away because in order to grab him they'll need to chase up a JP first to get a search warrant.
Can you imagine the outcry if Police searched a house without a warrant ?
Can you imagine if Police caught a crime because they got a tip-off but can't name the informer ? That me lad is the true picture of our justice system. The Police is merely an innocent bystander. What if they didn't tazer some fruitcake & someone got hurt. We'd never hear the end of it whilst some shoddy lawyer is rubbing his grubby little hands.

Individual mostly what you say is true.
But I think nothing is impossible.
And that true and honest outside review of the action of police, can improve the situation.
I do not blame the soft left, greens, alone for break downs in law.
I actually think all sides are to blame, and that costs of prisons, come in to play in sentencing.
My head is full of two recent, very questionable [ in my view police murders]actions bringing death to UNARMED PEOPLE.
Not criminals.
A Detective, from near here, spent 20 years in the police.
He cracked after watching a SNR Detective MURDER a criminal, on the say so of,another criminal.
He died a drunk, but told everyone who would listen, never trust a cop.
Now we have moved on, but why do we hide the crimes of authority figures like police , ministers and pastors teachers and such.
Justice, those three wise monkeys may be pulling our legs.
Truly refusing to see hear or speak about evil is no good idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYKIDl4-tYQ
Not in Australian but truly represents every thing I fear in police culture.
SOME not all, how do we know what group we are dealing with at any time?
And why would they become the criminals they chase?

Dear Belly,

I agree with you. Sound reasoning will conquer
unreasonable generalisations every time.
And certainly not all policemen bash handcuffed
men or taser them 13 times. Not all policemen attack
homeless people in malls or shoot 15 year old troubled
teenagers dead or take violent action against protestors,
or get people killed in car chases and so on.

However,
these examples do speak to a wide culture of police
violence that even police commissioners have
acknowledged. Obviously this situation needs investigation
and steps have to be taken to correct it.

Maybe we are part of the reason, it is us our fathers mothers and theirs that put police on a pedestal.
I spoke of cover ups, by the public of crimes of ministers pastors police,we can tell of them right back in our history.
Even covering up child molestations.
We fawn, yes that word best tells it, in he presents of police.
Then as they walk some will damn them .
And for a bad action a great one exists.
Culture needs to change, the law exposes police to abuse, slanders, insults,and a scar an grow as a result.
Think if we get hat treatment how long would it be till we snap
A story in todays goggle news,or was it the SMH?
Well educated American Negro father.
Telling his son about not becoming a victim.
It hurt, it should, hurt anyone who cares.
That dad had to teach his son not to become victim, an Innocent victim.
In that story I was CONFRONTED, see that dads wife told of seeing a blackman in her neighborhood,wearing hoody hands in pockets.
She, as I would have,said what is he doing in our neighborhood.
Then found it was her husband! walking home after leaving the car in for a service.
Hoody? in my area few who wear them are not casing houses or cars.
One day, if we kill some one for not stealing biscuits then we may kill a cold wet kid for covering up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Australian_police_officers_with_criminal_convictions
This link is to assist in understanding SOME Police even end up in prison.
I do not want to slander the whole.
But do not want to forget the culture within;.
Nore our culture, the turning a blind eye culture.
This latest death, if we all knew the full back ground, and the headline grabbing one before it, taser or gun, bring us all down.
If those we trust to keep the law,can with out pain lie, we are in very real trouble.

http://jrtestemp.blogspot.com.au/
An informative site.
I think any problem can be fixed.
But first while we call for harsher penalty's for criminals.
I am one who does.
We should remember a crime committed by one wearing that uniform is still a crime.
And far worse.

Yesterdays Sydney death at the hands of Police may be different.
A police high speed chase car high jacking after a smash, at knife point.
And shot dead 5 shots in a shopping center.
It is different in some ways,and complex, questions are being asked why gun not taser?
Can not win can they.
But did he still have the knife, then I find no fault here.
If he, younger stronger was assaulting the older less fit policeman?
Not sure.
I am sure of this,if he was arrested he may well have got a fine or bond.
The issue is many sided.

Umm it is a worry; while QLD police in general do a fine job, there are rogue elements that 'can do' must root out to restore confidence
http://www.fileserve.com/file/TcJ6mAe/kippa-ring-cops.zip
I rest my case

pepper I have not yet looked at your link.
But know only too well there are all types in uniform.
And that too many are unfit to wear it.
I actually do not think bad of police, in fact knew one with your name who was liked by all.
NSW has had 4 police deaths in a week, two in car chase one after and the poor Brazilian.
My fear, I just can not bring myself to think these events will be investigated fairly.
I think, know, a whole set of lies is under construction to cover up these deaths.
Some Police, will openly tell you that is true.

A story in todays SMH clears police in the shopping center shooting.
And I except it.
for interstate readers it is worth a read Friends of the dead man say he needed help, they asked just about every one for it.
In the week before his death, officer involved had no taser he was not first responder, he confronted a rage filled ICE fueled offender who had take two cars at knife point.

nice use of links belly

except that acceptance
of spellcheck option..of exept over accept

[mate i think..accept is a thing we accept]
exept for police..excepted from responsable service*

there are exceptions
we accept that

OUG I am an ex union official.
If I learn to spell, it will never happen, and grammar.
I put my spell check out of work.
Can not do that mate solidarity!
Look at what the back hoe did.
Took hundreds of weary hard working worn out and dieing early men and put them out of work!
Should see my first posts here and on other sites .
Did not learn to read[as other eldest country kids] till I Left School and started work, just before my 13th year.

I believe there are serious concerns about the police investigating police.
NSW Police Minister Michael Gallacher refused to release the Tasercam footage from the fatal incident involving Brazilian student Roberto Curti. This is not about “due process” it is a case of police media trying to control the news by preventing potentially troubling video being released. in the very least, the Tasercam footage from this incident must be made available to the legal team representing the dead man. Many of us have diminishing faith that police investigating police will deliver the full truth. It was quite clear through the investigation into the death of Adam Salter in 2009 that police investigating police can lead to outcomes that fail to reflect the reality of what occurred. “The Greens are calling for the immediate release of the Tasercam recordings and for the Police Integrity Commission to investigate this critical incident,” said David Shoebridge MLC.

I agree Paul, but can not understand why others are not concerned.
As I said above, I support police, and country community's know,you could not raise enough to pay some cops what they are worth.
But we are too willing to let things pass.
IF that Brazilian man,was our son, we would feel very differently, but fight and fail to get true investigations done.
Back in the 70,s or was it 80,s very high profile Australians, and very rich, found claims of massive drug importation against them in the spotlight.
Well in a small torch light, with flat battery's, names never came out just rumors.
Police covered that up.
This morning,and yesterday, story's of big smuggling corruption and bribes, in customs?
Are our very basics understanding of law and order in the hands, SOMETIMES of Criminals worse than those we look for protection from.
Police may tell us, after they investigate, or will it be customs investigating customs.

You only have to mention the word POLICE and you get all the conservatives singing from the same song sheet.
Law and order, bring back the death penalty, lock em' up throw away the key. more police power, stiffer sentencing. pull them protesters into line. Too often the police act as judge, jury and executioner.
Like any section of the community there are good and bad police. Generally police are conservative people by nature, wanting to maintain the statues quo. Often the police are used as a tool of the establishment to enforce their regime on society, this is done under the guise of 'enforcing the law' or 'maintaining law and order'. At protests some police are none too willing to wade in, to crack a few heads, to get the point across as to who's in charge in our society.
I see the roll of the police force ( in NSW they have dropped the word force, but they are a force) as dealing with real crime in society not being used as a political tool to impose the will of the ruling junta.

Belly I have been to a few protests. The workers lockout at Port Botany by Patricks and the Liberal government to break the union, that was one protest I must say the police acted very well, I don't think a lot of the police had much sympathy for the ports owners, not that there was a lot going on most of the time, mums would bring down some sandwiches and tea for the blokes and the kids were running around playing, bit of a family day. However can't say the same about the police actions at the anti Vietnam war protests years ago. Seen police remove their badges and with the aid of neo-nazi thugs wade into the unarmed protesters and bash heads and cart people off to the lock-up, charges of assaulting police and resisting arrest followed. Hummm, a 6 stone 20 year old girl assaulting a 16 stone police Sargent. So many conservatives at that time supported the heavy handed police action, the same old "These trouble makers are getting what they deserve, tell them to get a real job etc etc."

FBI Training Teaches Agents
They Can ‘Bend or Suspend the Law’
http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2012/03/28/fbi-training-teaches-agents-bend-suspend-law-107812/

The FBI taught its agents,..[*among other unbelievable things],
that they could sometimes..bend or suspend the law..in their hunt for terrorists..*and criminals...

next we look at how the state
treats thus[us]..seen as an 'outside threat'

almost a quarter of Fukushima residents/hospitalized in the aftermath of last year’s devastating earthquake and tsunami..were treated as having a “psychiatric disorder”..because of their concerns over radiation.

The phenomenon of authorities underplaying the threat posed by radiation or even characterizing concerns over it as a mental illness has become a dominant theme ..ince the catastrophe just over a year ago...
http://www.infowars.com/fear-of-radiation-treated-as-psychiatric-disorder-in-fukushima/
this is despite the fact that Japanese authorities were caught over and over again lying to cover-up the true scale of the disaster.

you may recall...ddt was touted as a 'vitamin'
when the real truth came out..[now docters say fraking is great]
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/03/for-pennsylvanias-doctors-a-gag-order-on-fracking-chemicals/255030/

global warming warning wrong[again]
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304636404577291352882984274.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

rabbi says rape in war if ok
http://972mag.com/idf-colonel-rabbi-implies-rape-is-permitted-in-war/39535/

Britain once fought a war with China
over Britain's "right" to sell opium to the Chinese people.

how about their queen
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/233402.html

there is too much 'cop' stuff on tv..!
murder mystrery..good guys doing bad things
to get the bad guys..[or bad-dies]./.and ever so much more lies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzY7KQA2EsQ

its the media
[you come home from a hard day
beating up unionists or protesters

then sit back and listen to:cops[or murder she wrote of csi[you could name at leasst ten[20?..cop type 'shows'[training ...'the force'

'bad boys bad boys
what ya going to do..when we come guning..[for you too!]

how the media
does some of it
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=29938

Lies Taking Us To War
http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28790
http://12160.info/xn/detail/2649739:BlogPost:814634

Truth is the most valuable thing we have,
so I try to conserve it. –Mark Twain

http://naturalfertilitybreakthrough.com/articles/are-your-cosmetics-making-you-infertile/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-188524/Shampoo-link-male-infertility.html
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/israeli-accused-of-plot-to-sterilize-egyptians-with-shampoo/

Paul I too have been at many protests, lock outs strikes and gate meetings.
Unlike the left we met police and talked before the event.
Yes saw kickings and some bad stuff.
But too I saw trouble makers fools and idiots get in there trying to start trouble, then screaming police violence.
Want it clear my brand of unionism is based on honesty not trashy actions.
Class warfare is rubbish.
I do not see in this thread the law and order monsters foot prints.
And the subject is about the wrong people in uniform not the average.
a bent cop is a criminal.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/latest/a/-/article/13296610/ex-cop-should-get-long-jail-term-crown/
The crimes of this cop should shock us all.
It is not Representative of police.
My point in posting it is this, some are against a thread such as this.
A seeming wish to ignore such claims.
To pretend a special place exists for those we respect, police included.
I only want to highlight it is not true.
Crime is not just hoody wearing folk.

Belly: Good thread, I have not come out expressing total support for the police as you did with your opening line. But we might have some common ground here you and me. I'll let you into a little secret About 7 or 8 years ago one of my sons came to me about joining the NSW police, I didn't advise against it, but did say if you want to join then join for the right reasons, not for the power of the uniform but to serve the community in a positive way. As things panned out he didn't go through with it.
The police in Australia have not enjoyed the best of reputations, always been a few bad apples, just ask Ned Kelly, but I think that is true of any police force the world over, power corrupts. Its a dangerous job, we are passing the 10th anniversary of the murder of Constable Glenn McEnally, in my local area. Just recently Senior Constable David Rixon, was shot dead in Tamworth. a lot of the work involves dealing with some very nasty people, dealing with terrible events, not the job for everyone.
However, as a community we entrust certain powers to the police and as a community we must be vigilant that those powers are not being abused. When ever there is suspicion of abuse it must be independently investigated. At times it needs an inquiry on a grand scale such as The Wood Royal Commission, other times a more modest inquiry. I think honest cops welcome these inquires, they want to be seen as doing the right thing, and they as much as anyone want the bad eggs exposed. Belly do we have any common ground?

Yes we do Paul, I had some contact with the victim in Tamworth, no better bloke served ever.
See I was country official and served that area RTA briefly.
Both murdered by gutless grubs.
I played football around the state with many.
Got to know even more in attending road trauma events.
One, a great bloke used to pick me up on the road at work, take me for a run.
He was a champ and a mate, but his radio played up and I returned it.
Paul most of my information, about the grubs in uniform, came from cops.
No place to live with out them.
Yes we do not like them but that is in part why some are so difficult to deal with.
An ICAC senor Inspector, investigating a totally corrupt group, most of one station said these words, in asking me to change my mind and sign a statement.
*It is the old heads who set the culture, if we can remove them the young ones will fix it up*
Never happened,I never made that statement , some police got caught in a trap and left or got sacked.
But same tricks different faces.

The thread had a good run not a lot of different posters but think it did ok.
I used the term culture, and stand by it, all groups, and to some extent work places have a culture.
Police back one another up, life is often in danger and they need to be able to bank on a mate.
At such times we all do.
And few could claim not to have told a white lie, to cover for a mate.
But I too spoke of the value of a good cop, no community could pay their true worth.
Police world wide, from the very first police, in England, have had the bent cop in them.
Some more bent than not, in America for sure.
Australia, can if it wishes lead rather than follow.
And by developing a new strong culture, return trust.
But just maybe, we need to drop references to harsh law and order reforms, and reform!
People walk out of court after swearing at police, or walk the streets again, after killing them.
If we demand so much. maybe we should change our views and protect them too.