Indy it is a hard task talking you and I .
Noting you say we, when talking about Conservatives but, like me you are a follower of one side.
We play no part in policy or direction.
I think you should take Anthonyv,s advice, research the history of LIBERALISM.
My use of Conservatism is an insult, but in my view best tells us about the attempt to become a American Republican off shoot.
The links above if followed are informative.
Above all your view of this ALP Government, even with its faults, is one seen from the bottom of a very unclean glass bottle.
Despite the view Labor is evil incompetent and such, the SPIN DOCTORS have fooled many.
And done it well, who defends a party, one that has faults as yours plainly has, because of hatred or dislike of the other side.
And ignores those faults excepts less than the best from that party.

Been interesting, thanks Bonmot, and thanks to Spin doc, nice of you to be so honest, posting a true description of your self.
Parliament returns this week, we will moan about Question time, yet in the main it is as it always was.
Questions aimed at letting Ministers blow their own trumpets.
Oppositions opposing ,even things they agree with.
And using the time to plant seeds of doubt, even known lies.
Abbott will, in an effort to dump his Doctor No Negative brand, send the slightly silly Pyne and Bishop to demand a debate they know will not get up.
But find the exposure useful, and some chooks will fly and squawk about it in any case.
Two leaders, not the first,maybe even second pick of their party faithful,will oppose each other.
If both today found the cleaners elected to their jobs, only the sky rocketing polls, of both party's would be noticed.
We Australians , most off us,will follow the paths set out for us, buying our sides story, jumping on the others.
And not even considering the true paths directions and policy's that we are bound for,as Conservatives Henny Penny the masses into_) betraying them selves.

Morning Belly,

Barry (spindoc) is an 'educated conservative'. There is nothing wrong with this - in and of itself.

However, what is concerning is the increasing shrill of "smart idiots" - described in this essay from Chris Mooney:

http://www.salon.com/2012/02/24/the_ugly_delusions_of_the_educated_conservative/singleton/

Note that in the article, the term "liberal" is used in the US sense and equates to Australia's "Labor", or progressive. Not the increasingly 'Tea-Party-esque' Australian Liberal conservative.

Closer to 'home', I was interested in the research findings of Dan Kahan et al (mentioned in the article) who has been studying the relationship between political views, scientific knowledge, reasoning abilities, and opinions on scientific issues like global warming.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1871503&http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1871503

I agree Belly, it's been interesting - and is about to get even more so : )

My regards and thanks Bonmot, no problem in again high lighting my lack of a formal education.
And just maybe it has been my greatest asset in my whole life.
The hunger to learn has taken me to interesting places.
Will look at the links but yes Labor is the true Liberal party in this country.
Not always so, we once prided our selves with being the permanent opposition and the best one this country ever had.
A time not far a head will test our country, but it has always been so.
All those Monday mornings election over and Conservatives won,again, the don't blame me I voted Labor, often a lie.
Ahead fueled by much the same infamous apathy lays a government few will want.
I however have nothing against spin doc, never agreed with him, but he may not be the only one paid to spin who visits here.
We are getting weary of politics and politicians, and that is in part because of spin lies and strangely those who use that tool are about to be victim to it too.
Note the absence again of our biggest spinning top Shadow Minister.
Had the thread offered a chance to slander Labor it would have been different.

Belly, what I was trying to convey is that even some people who are 'educated' are not as 'intelligent' as they would have us believe. In fact, as Kahan showed, it seems that their 'inteligence' is inversley proportional to their 'education'.

Some of my best friends have not been 'educated' Belly - and some have more 'intelligence' than some of my closest colleagues who have been. But none who have followed truth have deliberately chosen to cover their eyes, block their ears and shout to the world everybody else has got it wrong when they should know better. Ergo, like the "smart idiots" of the world.

Where politics is concerned Belly, I am more centrist. Unfortunately, I see the actions of some that are driving Australian politics more to the 'right' and more to the 'left' - and never the two shall meet.
Pox on them all.

Shadow and spindoc? You could well be right.

Belly and bonmot,

More and "better" education doesn't necessarily guarantee increased rationality or intelligence. It often only furnishes a person with the intellectual tools to confirm their bias and the eloquence to disseminate their misconception - so much so, it seems, that those with the qualifications relevant to certain fields are dismissed, shouted down and generally disdained as "frauds" by the intelligent amateurs who are often only protecting their piece of the pie.

bonmot - I get where you're coming from on Aussie politics - dismal, indeed.