Some of us have been warning you for a couple of years now that the future for workers her was on shaky ground, and that trouble was brewing.

While many of you laughed, who is laughing now, because unless you are completely blind, or ignorant, you will realize that the wheels are worse than wobbly, they are in fact very very close to falling off.

First Ford, now Holden have cried poor and government can't prop up one, but not the other, so who's next.

Furthermore, while the recent discussion from FWA to increase low paid service industry workers by up to 40% may be a shot in the arm for many of these workers, it has the potential to be a shot in the heart for many businesses, both large and small.

Businesses that are nit going broke, are going elsewhere because Australia has become just to hard to make money any more.

We have to accept that unskilled wages are to high, or, we WILL FAIL.

I am also of the opinion that we have gone to far now to recover as business no longer has the confidence to borrow.

Even the mining industry, our life blood, is strting to think twice, due mainly to out of control compliance.

Then the Idiot Labor government puts a carbon tax on Manufacturing, which will add about $400 per car produced. Then the hypocrites try to lecture us that they need to rescue the car manufacturing industry.

Hi All.......this is the design on jobs (no wishful thinking or lies).

Just a bit of background.

We are selling assets, borrowing and allowing massive environmental damage to occur with mining.......all because Australia is panicking for income to support our growing population's appetite for infrastructure and jobs.

Our manufacturing is collapsing, our World rankings of our universities and school leavers academic standards, are falling.

As Paul Keating said, " population growth will lead to unemployment, if you don't grow the economy ". The opposite is also true, that you can have full employment if you don't grow the economy........if you stabilise population growth.

Denmark with a basically stable population of 5 million , export all over the world. How ? Because they invest in education, technology and efficient, high end capital intensive manufacturing.

Australia can't, because we invest in more people.........which is an investment in more pollution.

The billions spent on growth infrastructure and services, must be spent alternatively on education, health and emerging technology.

Forget "bank" and Business Council economists pushing for more population growth.........this is the last thing we need.

Cheers,

Ralph

Yes Ralf, you are right there.

The rot started when governments decided to offer assistance to families, which was brought about by people having families that they simply could not afford.

This policy also placed preasure on wages, as there became this thought that why should I work for that much, when I just need to have three kids, sit at home, and receive a similar net amount.

It stands to reason that if you don't have to work, many will play the system so they don't have to.

Prior to this, those who wanted kids, often worked extra hours so as to be able to afford them.

Then came the push for less hours, as the dogodders decided that it was only fair that dads get More time to spend with their kids. Let's face it, five ten hour days, and two days off each week was not that bad.

Of cause we all wanted more time, and now we could have it both, as the earning that were lost, were often topped up through the family assistance.

Unfortunately, many people don't realize that everything comes with a price.

The price of this is where we are now.

You may well suggest it's the beginning of the end, but the beginning started a long time ago and i fear we are now to far gone to come back.

People have this mentality that when times get tough, all you need to do is increase wages.

What they don't understand is that wages, along with every other expense, must come from profits, otherwise the business owner is paying more in wages, yet taking a pay cut themselves.

It just can not go on that way.

Right now, many small business owners ar questioning if it is all worth it any more, and that's the worrying part.

I think the only hope we have is to find a way to collect more taxes, without inflicting more pain.

Other than in the mining sector, nobody has disagreed with you about the impending jobslide rehctub, the disagreement has been about the cause.

Your idea that we should create a working poor so the rich can continue to live the lifestyle they have become accustomed to is not the answer but no manner of discussion with you will change your view. That is accepted.

It is the whole economic system that needs a re-hash including the modern religion of neo-liberal thinking of which I am happy to be an atheist.

rehctub,

Perhaps you should look to the American system for a guide. The U.S. has almost made an artform of producing people referred to as the "working poor". Thank goodness we have universal health care, because they don't over there. Added to that, they seem to be able to convince these workers to consistently vote against their own interests.

Don't you think it's instructive that the buying power of wages in the U.S. have stalled at the same rate they were in the early seventies - and that American manufacturing is in a state of gross decline (so much so that their economy now relies in great part on cheap imports for China)

And all this under a continuing bipartisan regime (starting with Clinton) to relegate many workers to the "working poor".