Growing up as a Christian, there was always that understanding with the 'second coming' of the son of god and much of that prophecy - from my understanding - comes from the dawn of the third day idea.

It is said in the bible, a thousand years on earth is equivalent to a day in heaven. Right now is the dawn of the third millennia after the crucifixion of Christ.

I always had a philosophical with my old man about the timing. Taking for granted this stuff will come to pass - I know most here won't even contemplate this train of thought - dawn is around 6 hours into a day. Landing us at about 2250AD. Just saying.

The End Times Prophecies - like all theories, including scientific - come down to interpretation and generally accepted consensus on given information. Many say - including Hollywood - the world as we know will end in our destruction. But others, like myself, consider it more of a change in spiritual awareness. The ancient Egyptians believed it was an awareness thing too.

An adult discussion on the topic would be appreciated, but I acknowledge this will most likely become another tool of ridicule like many other threads.

If Ron Paul becomes president,ends the US Fed and restores the Constitution,then it will the end times for monetary oppression.

I'm not really sure what you are asking for in this discussion StG, but I will try to be 'adult' about it :)

I too was brought up with this 'second coming' belief drummed into me.
It frightened me when I was younger, in that this second coming would involve some sort of violent end to all the 'sinners'.

As kids, we were sent to confession at the Catholic church every week, where we were told to repent of our 'sins'.
These included things like lying to mum or dad, or saying a swear word like 'bugger' etc.
I truly believed I would go to hell with all the other sinners if Jesus came back again, because of these childhood 'sins'.

After many years of watching and waiting for many new dates professed by different Christian groups to be THE DAY of the 'second coming', I finally realised that it was a load of rubbish.

I'm not sure any more that anyone 'came' the first time..

I hope with respect StG 2012 you will know is said to be the end times for far more than Christianity.
I too was told of the end times as you speak of them.
Not sure why, but as a non believer I think man has some thing like that sol.
Maybe a hidden part of our brain,that tells us story's to comfort us about death.
Not sure.
But I have no doubt some can see the future, most lie, profit from fools, but some have.
If I was tasked with predicting this year, based on just what we see in the headlines.
I would ignore end times it is not going to happen.
But we are in for real trouble, war destruction, in the middle east, Ron Paul will not get even close to winning.
Greece will crash.
Middle east? years of propping up dictators , people not haveing any say.
Have weakened the whole building.
Now internal fighting, nothing to do with America, is running wild.
We will have a bad year for unneeded deaths.
We have much to concern us but not the end,yet.
Who? ever? 200 years ago would think the Catholic Church could fail?
It is a prediction from century's ago.
Yet almost daily releases of story's of harm done, by members and servants of the Church, not mombo jumbo, threaten its existance As never before

Suse,

In my experience, any 'group' that demands obedience based on fear is on the wrong track. I distanced myself from my religion a long time ago which ironically pulled me closer to my 'faith'. My faith is based on the fundamentals of the teachings of Christ which is to respect you and others as I wish to be respected ... or treated, as the saying goes.

I couldn't POSSIBLY do the prophecies justice in the space and time we have in this joint, but if you look at the prophecies versus global events right now, it's frightfully on track. People ARE looking at how we can function better as a species and also how we can function better as a community. This is what I mean by awareness.

Belly,

I reckon my comment to Suse about covers it for you too.

i was raised..into science..not religeon
my dad assured me..religeon was just exclusive/franchise..over materialisms..[the spiritual..perverted into flesh]...

a way..to call-up
higher authority...into the mundane

so i dont really follow..this end-time thing
is it a good jesus comming?..or the anti-christ?
[to me they are the same thing..]

cause..the christ never said
for his own to do..*the oppisite..that he did]
the delusion..of a just war..isnt..*loving other

but here is the thing..jesus./.*isnt comming back
but the thinking of him comming back..allows others
to pervert any good intent..from the event

thus i suspect..some might be planning
..a deciever..a faulse prince of pieces[war]

[ok possably..allready have planned and deliverd it
via the obomination's..of obama..murdering from the skies or via 7 seals]

so im not spending..a lot of time..on the topic
but others are...

[cash for comment?]
[the grinch..got 5 million for the 'invented people' comment]
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/01/gingrich-get-5-million-for-saying-palestinians-are-invented-people-lord-why-am-i-so-cynical.html

Former CIA counter-terrorism specialist Philip Giraldi gives a picture of.."What War With Iran..Might Look Like,"
http://www.bushstole04.com/iran/us_iran_clash.htm

concluding that,.."A minor engagement
between American and Iranian forces..in the Persian Gulf,"
will ignite World War III.....[so no doudt..its been planned..by the cia/mossad think-tanks at least]

its all about perception...like

Nazi Germany..was more “democratic”..
than America is..today.

More than that,fascism,
which I was taught to hate..as either..a form of socialism or corporate control..

was actually an almost ideal *economic system,..free trade,..greenie principles..workers rights,..[if your not a slave worker]..

the media/propaganda...
and over use of propheci...and other dark arts

all saw standard of living continually raised,[for the elites]....plus never..any debt..and no need for police/state big business laws....

[yep our masters
thought it..the golden age

corporate profits soared,[heck germanic/japanese..war mongering multinationals still run the world...

[how good that slave wage...work for prison...capitalist control system works..for usa/china/russia/north korea..even today

What Hitler did..when he took office..was scare the living hell out of his enemies,...kill his opposition..conned the people

[much like..obama..cia/mossad..and sky drones
do today]

RECALL JESUS SAID
''by their works...will ye know then""[them]

""mostly communists..and the international bankers
that insisted..that Germany..keep its old..“debt based currency.”"

with the same insisting..the same today
its the demonic autocracy...a just war..on just/us

http://www.bushstole04.com/monetarysystem/kill_democracy.htm

everything old..becomes new again
in time
http://whatreallyhappened.com/

Doomsday comes and doomsday goes, so much for the ones dug into the side of mountains, so they can be spared. Religion needs to totally collapse, and the world will be a better place. Catholic is a form of repression, it had to see the end coming. This scientology needs knocking on the head, before it totally gets out of control.

I would like to take up just one point you made as I think it's relevent to the overall point you're making, and that is your definition of a theory.
In science an hypothesis becomes a theory only when it meets certain criteria.
1. It must be possible to make predictions based upon the hypothesis; and
2. (This is critically important) it must tbe possible to design and conduct experiments based upon those predictions and the predictions MUST be verified every time.
If a verified experiment produces results contrary to the prediction - even if only under specific circumstances - then the theory must be modified.
Only when an hypothesis meets these conditions can it be called a theory.
Thus, your idea of end times is a perfectly valid hypothesis but it is not considered a theory because you cannot design and conduct an experiment to verify your prediction about the second coming.
Thus the Second Coming remains an hypothesis and cannot be given the same weight in science as a theory.
Essentially, an hypothesis is an untested belief system.
We can, for example, hypothesize that there is life on other planets, but it is not a theory as we cannot experimentally verify it.
Once this difference is understood it might help to clear up your concern as you are now dealing with a belief system and not a theory.
We are all perfectly entitle to believe what we choose, but it cannot be called a theory until it meets the described requirements.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

This discussion highlights the problems between religious belief and real knowledge or science.

We humans live on a planet partly compose of the products of the super nova destruction of an earlier, most likely larger, sun.

Our sun has been in existence only since the light and other electromagnetic signals we now observe from the most distant galaxies was two thirds of the way here. Those time spans, 4.5 billion years for our sun and our planet, and 13.7 billion for the most distant galaxies, make the years since the dawn of the Abrahamic religions no more than a fly spot on the calendar of the universe.

Too many modern people pay too much attention to the writings of those who knew little about the real wonders of their existence.

The 100,000 or more years of human existence and the span of time (10-15 million years) since we parted from our nearest apelike common relative are also miniscule in comparison.

Don't take my word for the ideas above. Do your own research as Moses Maimonides (1135-1204) said;

"If anybody tells you in order to support his opinion that he is in possession of proof and evidence and that he saw the thing with his own eyes, you have to doubt him, even if he is an authority accepted by great men, even if he is himself honest and virtuous. Inquire well into what he wants to prove to you. Do not allow your senses to be confused by his research and innovations. Think well, search, examine, and try to understand the ways of nature which he claims to know. Do not allow yourself to be influenced by the sayings that something is obvious, whether a single man is saying so or whether it is a common opinion, for the desire of power leads men to shameful things, particularly in the case of divided opinions."

Too many modern people pay too much attention to ancients who knew nothing about the real wonders of our universe.

wise words...quote..""Moses Maimonides..(1135-1204)..said;

"If anybody tells you..in order to support his opinion
that he is in possession of proof and evidence..and that he saw the thing with his own eyes,..you have to doubt him,..!

even if he is an authority[PEER}>.accepted by great men,
even if he is himself honest and virtuous.
Inquire well..*into what he wants..to prove..*to you.

Do not allow your senses..to be confused
by*his research and innovations.""'[and claim to science]

note my expantion of antonyes concept on an other thread

""Think well,..search,..examine,
and try to understand the ways of nature..""

science cannot make claim to natural anything
if it still claims science[science never evolved nuthin]

test...[that]..""which he claims to know...""

""Do not allow yourself to be influenced
by the sayings..that something is obvious,""'

proves one thing or disproves another

science is as anthonye has posted
it must make predictions SPOT ON ALL THE TIME
or its belief..

replied here
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4919&page=0

""whether a single man is saying so
or whether it is a common opinion,*""

taught to innocents
to takaway god..errect other faulse god heads]

""for the desire of power..leads men to shameful things,
particularly in the case of divided opinions."

Too many modern people
pay too much attention to ancients..PEERS}>>

who knew nothing
about the real wonders..of our universe."""

excelent words
natural selection[by love]..BELONGS to god

survival of fittest is..the opposing side of the same coin

if its fraud
why do the peers..stick to dogma

cause they got no working hypothesis
so pretend..they got a theory..peer vieuw

random facts
sustaining a massive fraud
hoping judgment day never comes

some huge lies[seals]
will be lifted from our eyes this year
to begin 2013...without the peer-rage's further despoiling gods creation..

gods nurture is nature..natural belongs to god

science never evolved any new genus
and religeon..isnt doing what christ did

govt offends..not even pretends..to defend its own
only offend the peoples nation..upon other nations

these lies will be fixed
this year

watch as the ursurors
are forced to claim their stolen booty
when family trusts...become void[the dead killing the living

2012
is when armogeddon ends
ya been living it..[the two thirds
have nearly all died..]

ya didnt notice..that?
timming was everything..but every attempt to save all..was thwarted by antichrists...

hanging dead corpses in their whoreship places..
drinking his blood like demons
insanely drunk on his meat[flesh]..

bankers stealing all the common wealth

well the sham ends
before dec 24..

at its latest
as fact is sepperated from hythesis
many theories will die..let the dead tend the dead

and the living
respect all other lives...simply doing their own living..[each according to its nature]..the bad will still be bad

but the good will do better
love logic grace mercy light life

Dear Stg,

You wrote: "It is said in the bible, a thousand years on earth is equivalent to a day in heaven."

I have never seen that in the Bible. Please tell me where it is said. Maybe I missed it.

Belly I agree with just about all of that. I have never been able to see how anyone could believe in any of the religions.

I can't agree with that little bit about people not having any say. They never did. It is only during the short period since WW11 that some people have had any say, & even then not much. How long have the majority of Oz people wanted to see reduced immigration numbers, & how much have they reduced?

Of course the church was one of the main instruments of control & oppression of the lower classes, run as it was by the third sons of the gentry. It provided a good living for this dispossessed of elite, & control of the populous simultaneously.

End of times? Perhaps, with the ratbag clerics of the middle east, with or very close to, having the bomb.

However, can anyone doubt that we would have gone to war with Russia, if it had not been for that bomb. The fact that there could be no winner in such a war has had a moderating effect on us, that no religion ever managed.

With any luck, even those middle eastern clerics will be less attracted to suicide, than those of their flock who they have encouraged to go out in a big bang of gore & glory, & the same moderating effect will prevail there, too.

Perhaps I have Islamic tendencies myself. There is nothing I can do about it, so I accept my fate, don't worry, or even think about it, & get on with enjoying my life.

The Scriptures speak more about the second coming of Christ than the first. Only the deceitful and those who deny history question His first coming. Whether it is this year or 30 years time should matter little to the believer. If he or she is about their Master's business the timing matters not.

I find it amusing that many mock and doubt Christ's return as foretold and yet they believe the ridiculous idiotic predictions of the warmist High Priests who would of been stoned long ago if they had sprouted their garbage in the name of science.

It is likely that Israel and Iran will be at it this year. Thankfully God will ensure His purposed are worked out despite the stubborn, proud heart of mankind. Thankfully also worldwide many have humbled themselves and bowed their knees to the King of Kings who will return.

The saddest part about HIs return will be all the mockers who have had plenty of warning to repent of their godless lives. Instead they choose a few years of pleaure sitting on their puny thrones.

Dear runner,

Repent of one's Godless life? Repent for using one's reason? Repent for not believing in superstitious mumbojumbo?

If one has lived a caring, compassionate life and has done one's best to fulfill one's potential one has nothing to repent.

If a person has been unkind, selfish, has not used reason but has been subject to superstition and has been intolerant of those who don't believe what he pbelieves then I suggest that person has something to repent.

You should repent for being prey to superstition and being intolerant of those who do not share that superstition.

I actually thought of Runner on Sunday night, when 60 Minutes
broadcast a programme about Jane Goodall and she pointed out that
as long as you test for blood type, you can give a human a blood
transfer from a chimp.

Runner must be shocked that in his veins flows the same blood
as in chimps veins :)

It is as I expected, developing in to an interesting thread.
I predict it will make the 100 posts.
StG yes agree,Hasbeen with you too, Anthonyv, nice to see you still about, like your posts.
As the matter has been raised I too very much so, keep to almost every teaching I was given from the Bible.
While no believer I would fall at the feet of its authors for the great wisdom they built in to it.
And yes signs point to events predicted long ago.
But, some of those predictions came and went, we keep changing the meaning and time of past predictions.
The human mind however can do things we still do not under stand, in my view some can predict the future.
If we except man can write brilliant books, not just religion, go to the moon, find our very building blocks that made us.
Why do we think some can not see SOME future events.
Some predictions for this year include things that have been seen happening already.
A local, makes one prediction each year been right every time, says NSW will have its first terrorist bomber this year.
prediction or informed guess?

Earlier I suggested contributors seek evidence, particularly in science, when making comments.

Scientific theories are as stated by Anthonyve in his comment.

Theories accommodate new discoveries much in the way Newtonian theories on motion and energy were shown by Einstein to be the low velocity situation in Einstein's later relativity theories which have now withstood thousands of experiments over more than 100 years.

Evolutionary theory has now become the underlying theory of all biology research and, since the discovery of bacteria and viruses, improved hygiene and the development of vaccines, antibiotic and other drugs have saved and extended millions of lives. Other developments since modern science got underway 450 years ago has provided more comfortable living for billions.

Any changes from now on in evolutionary theory will be minor adjustment only. Like the theories of gravity, electricity, mechanics and thermodynamics etc., evolutionary theory is now almost written in stone.

If runner or anyone has have any evidence to the contrary they should produce it rather than babble on using the 2000 year old writings of people who understood little.

Ok 'one under god', runner & co, any response to Foyle?

Sorry Foyle, perhaps that should be put in context:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4919#131630

and my reply.

StG wrote: “I couldn't POSSIBLY do the prophecies justice in the space and time we have in this joint, but if you look at the prophecies versus global events right now, it's frightfully on track.”

In my experience, most people who claim this haven’t even read Revelations. Could we have some examples?

The best you’ll usually get from someone is that bad stuff is happening, but if it’s “frightfully on track” then there must be something more specific that I’ve overlooked. From what I remember, though, Revelation is mostly just the ramblings of someone who appears to have been an undiagnosed schizophrenic…

1 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters. 2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.” 3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. (Revelation 17:1-3)

If anyone can get a photo of this thing then please, get back to us won’t you.

With all this talk of "bowing" and "repentance" I can't help but feel some sadness for those who have squandered much of the joy in their lives in exchange for ingrained feelings of worthlessness and sinfulness, and must eagerly look forward some some global apocalyptic event in the hope it justifies their personal sacrifice and gives their life meaning.

It's not enough to be saved - all others must be seen to suffer. Nice.

Meanwhile I will be sending in my $30 to The Church of the Subgenius to reserve my seat on the Pleasure Saucers when they come to lift us up on July 5th while all the Pinks and Normals fry.

What's more I get a written guarantee - "Eternal Salvation or Triple your Money Back" plus no judgement of sins required. Now what other religion offers that?

Yabby you write

'Runner must be shocked that in his veins flows the same blood
as in chimps veins :)

The only thing that shocks me is that grown adults are stupid enough to believe we came from monkeys. No wonder so many carry on like animals.

>> The only thing that shocks me is that grown adults are stupid enough to believe we came from monkeys <<

I agree with runner on this, everybody knows we came from single-cell amoeba ... at God's direction of course.

bonnie mote...there isnt anything to reply boil for

quote...""Evolutionary theory*..has now become
the underlying theory*...lol...""of all biology research""

ok give ya proofs
name one biology genus..that evolved into other genus
[its ok born mute dont know neither

biolol/research..""and,..since the discovery
of bacteria and viruses,..improved hygiene""

actually..that began prior to bacteria discovery
it was first thought to be..bad 'air'

[but heck..if you dont know better..
well ya just..dont know..

evolution/biol/diss virus/bacvteria...""and the development of vaccines,..antibiotic and other drugs..""

nothing but a strange joinder of concepts
but noting *micro evolution is making..them immune..
from current drugs..[this still isnt MACRO-evolution..[a *new genus needs]

DISCOVERIES,...""have saved and extended millions of lives.""
and not validated nnor used macro evolution to make even one NEW genus

broil goes on..""""Other developments..since modern science got underway..450 years ago has provided..more comfortable living for billions.""

not even climate related..let alone
relitive to gnosis..re evolution..[thesis..]

""Any changes..from now on..in evolutionary theory
will be minor adjustment only.""

oh i wish i could bet ya house on that
lol[but the insanity continues]

""Like the theories of gravity,"'

please by all means present the thesis..and the theory
and state the basic laws...before adjudging 'the theory valid

WHAT THEORY
be specific[these generalisations cant fool anyone READING what spion is being spun

ditto..""electricity,""

relates to evolution...how?

""mechanics and thermodynamics etc.,"'

yep clever general subjects
but where is thesis/theory..faulsifyables
that when refuted refute the theo-ry

""evolutionary theory..is now
almost written in stone.""

great
state..its thesis...definatly state ya theory
what is the faulsifyables...[as per anthonynes quoted definitions]

YA GOT NUTHIN
no name...no genus evolving
and all ya got is phenotypical stone fossils
that can*not..show genomic genus change...[without genes..ya cant prove relation

[its relitives..changing genus..
via small mutations..that you claim..in ya theory]
stone dont got no genes[even then stones are fragments..bits of bits]

If anyone..has have any evidence
to faulsify..*the THEORY
they should produce it..
rather than babble on
using generalities..

""of people
who understood little.""

foiled..the foyle's feeble foibles failed

I saw references to feeling sorry for such as runner.
He would be the first to say no need.
Yet it is true haveing fallen for one of maybe a thousand God Myths he judges us harshly, forgetting his book tells him not to.
It is by no means just Christian prophecy that names this year.
In fact Mayans are not other than pagan, and it is the forecast they made that names now.
Christians, branches of the main, have given dates for this , even last year selling every thing they owned.
If we are forecasting based on likely hood Christianity may be replaced by another middle East faith.
I base this only on current growth of one and shrinking of the other

great...bornmutt..has finally settled on the first life
""..single-cell amoeba""..[so this single cell mutated
and became two cells..multi cellular]

NAME WHAT IT IS
what single 'cell'..genus mutated
into what multicell genus

for that matter..how did the cell membrain 'evolve'
se ya still got nuthin..lol
but there is more
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061027184123.htm
"""Amoebas are some of the closest..*single cell
relatives of animals..so understanding..*how they work and evolve is important..because it helps us to understand..how animals evolve.

We have developed8...lol..a new model
lol..system for the study..of the evolution of forms.

"We have written the dictionary.

Now we know what the words are
but we still have to construct..the sentences."...lol

""The research teams..were able to build
the family tree..by amplifying and comparing highly conserved genes from..all known species of social amoeba.

The existing family tree..of the social amoeba
was based on how..the multi*cellular structures""

lol..single to multui-sell..lol

""of each species look on the outside.

However,..this tree was completely uprooted
by the molecular data...LOL..gathered by the researchers in Dundee and York.

By plotting all existing information..of the amoebas’ cellular and multi-cellular shapes..*and behaviour...lol..to the molecular tree, it appeared that..increased cell specialization..and organism size is a major trend..in the evolution of social amoeba.""

single cell amoeba

""Professor Schaap and her team..are now working to establish how the regulation..and function of genes..with important roles in development..was altered""

lol

""and elaborated..during the course of evolution
to generate novel cell-types..and morphological features.""

The next step..for Professor Baldauf..and her team
will be to investigate the origin..of these amoebas,""

ie not FIRST LIFE

""and also to search..for new species""

cause there is no genus

""and to establish..their position on the family tree.""

so not first life
try again

or present science proof

ps good site...
heaps of links

lets just stick with facts
[the science...not the assumptions]

*The only thing that shocks me is that grown adults are stupid enough to believe we came from monkeys.*

Whew runner, now you can relax, knowing that its not monkeys who
are our closest relatives, but chimps and other primates.

Great link, thanks!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061027184123.htm

Can just picture OUG scurrying off to google single-cell amoeba ... close to home I guess :)

However OUG, they are talking about "social amoeba" - whereas some 'one' are from "anti-social amoeba".

But you knew that.

This thread certainly has made interesting and enjoyable reading;a fascinating insight into the human condition.
Seems to me we have the standard two camps here.
The science camp is saying, "Gimme the facts, Ma'am, just the facts."
Meanwhile the - can I call it, the Believer's camp, is saying, "I believe what I believe and nothing anyone says will make me believe differently."
I'm guessing the Americans and the Iranians will have a big squishy cuddle fest well before we reach consensus on this one :)
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Anthonyve writes

'The science camp is saying, "Gimme the facts, Ma'am, just the facts."
Meanwhile the - can I call it, the Believer's camp, is saying, "I believe what I believe and nothing anyone says will make me believe differently."

Typical dishonesty when anyone interested in true science knows that evolution is just the story people build around facts. So full of holes and deceit that no one interested in truth could possibly swallow.

As one honest Antropologist said

'After having chided the theologian for his reliance on myth and miracle, science found itself in the uneviable position of having to create a mythology of its own: namely, the assumption that what, after long effort, could not be proved to take place today had in truth, taken place in primeval past.'

The evolution camp has only ever been able to give mythology which they have grabbed a few observations they deceitfully fit in their little fable.

The belief in a Second Coming is a belief in incompetence. A competent messiah would have got it right the first time and would not have to come back. The superstitious people of Jesus' time believed that End Times had come. The superstitious people of our time believe that End Times will come. There is nobody coming to solve our problems. If we can't solve them ourselves we will simply live with unsolved problems until we, like other species, become extinct. The only End Times are our extinction as a species. It does not help to have a cargo cult mentality in waiting for some entity from outside to provide us with what we need. I am 86. My earthly father is dead, and I do not have a heavenly Big Daddy. If all goes right my children will live on after me until they die.

Thanks for the read guys. Big day, and will take me awhile to get through it and reply to those worth replying to.

Cheers.

If (and it's a big IF) we are to hold firm that the prophecies of the 'end' are true, then the end of days in a Christian context is something to look forward to. It's a classic story of things getting worse before they get better, and when they get better it'll be a place we all want to be. Peace, prosperity, joy, happiness for those who deserve it ... almost worth the bloodshed and unhappiness that comes before. What we need to look for, though, is a dramatic shift in the status quo. A new world order, so to speak. While there are many signs that this will happen during my lifetime, the same could be said of Renaissance Man, Reformation Man, Enlightenment Man or Industrial Man. With each great upheaval, we saw a change in our thinking, a change in the way we did things and a rethinking of the role of religion in society. I suspect that is happening once again as we go about our day to day lives. Maybe this is the last time. Maybe not.

Well, I view it this way. Something has to give, we can't keep going the way we're going now.
The sooner a stop is put to the idiocy that's the norm now then the better.

I think you guys touch on it the best. It's a bit like with global warming, the debate on the cause is redundant ... even the existence of it. In the end, isn't it a good thing to strive to function better as a species? Ego gets in the road of common sense with us.

Most people here can't get past "religion" when it comes to discussion. Isn't it obvious - to me anyway - that we as a species are heading for an impasse. If we take the religious aspect of the discussion out of the equation and focus on what we are doing to ourselves and the planet it's fairly obvious that we can't continue on the way we are.

Any change that we would make to improve our standing on this planet is called enlightening ourselves. This is how the Egyptians saw it.

We sure do get interesting contributions.
Runner, always in defense of a Fable/God known to practice kindness, talks very close to hate and disdain about all not sharing his views.
Indy, as is his habit writes short jabs, that seem to say our world is not worth saving/in trouble most can not see.
And I some times doubt he can put in to words what he thinks about it.
We can talk forever,yes eternity, about mans mind, why we have Gods, think the world may just end soon.
It will how ever remain a mystery for century's if not forever.
In our daily life we , in our every action, use things science developed, made possible.
The true challenge is? that followers of God, every one of them, claim that they like as his/her gift, and that they dislike as not worthy, hence the bitterness of runner.
As the year progresses the fact is events that if taking place in any other year would not be seen as unusual will be claimed as evidence we are near the end.
Interesting year ahead, what chance terrorists will try to take advantage of this fear?

born mute..ya welcome
but if your talking amoeba[single celled]
thats what your talking about..but its time you knew
that it isnt any first life..but im glad your happy..at any rate

i have research the amoeba in previous discussions
and this single cell..is much more amasing than your oh so few words give it credit for...for this critter to be the first life...requires much more that the twenty life bases...any life needs

buty its wasted
on those thinking evolution..is fact
its only barely a thesis/hypothesis..let alone a science theory

you can not evolve a new genus
science canot 'evolve a new genus'
and till you actually realise this..its futile to try to educate you on your ignorances

so i wait for your reply..[yeah right]
you find the link..[if you got the science you could proove it]
but you8 dont got proof..cause that you call evidence...is only at the micro level[the species level...not at the genus level

[cause genus cant evolve]...but ignorance can..
but ignorant cant converse on the topic..and avoid knowing
even the very things it seeks to know..

see3 as long as you think you got the general answer
you dont dare question the specifics..[the erant knowing]
cause its far easier to remain ignorant..than do the hard yards
[only god did do]

make first one new genus
if you got one..then you may find the science
till then your thinking santa claws[or science]..is god

but im over your deliberated ignorance
wether its cause you got no true idea..or just fear of the unknowable
isnt important...your wrong..but too ignorant
to learn how come..your so wrong

science never evolved nuthin new
[as in any new genus][new species within a egsistant genus sure]
but you dont even grasp the basics[sic]..thus most certainly not the science

you got faith in science
one day you will find it rests on feet of clay

saint gee/quote..""the debate on the cause is redundant""

re the 2012..issue..or evolution
or just warmist illusions...

""even the existence of it.""

the enmd times"

""In the end,..isn't it a good thing
to strive to function better as a species?""

sure..but going by way of insanity
well saint g...thats too insane

take specificly this BIG new tax
ontop of doubled energy prices

ONLY 500 will pay
so fine the cost of power goes up
but its doubled up in its cost price all ready
cause the EGSISTANT..soon to be obsolete solar/wind stuff
is first generation

[obsolete BEFORE it was even subsidised..by our extra taxes]

we spent [over spent..on the fear
exploited govt gifts[subsidy]..govt picking whiners..
to selective german multinational firms[intitially]
then the chinese stuff[that lasts a few years]

""Ego gets in the road of common sense with us.""

yes and the lobby..got what it lobbied for
VIA LIES FEARS..name-calling organised treason

the rush to the cure
while gifting away free solar cells
and asured buy back costs..at double the going rate
[thats all the honey trap..

yep today you got double
but your contracted into 2025
by which time at hyper inflation[beginning soon]
will ensure your selling it for one tenth..the then costs

yes just like super..the payoff seems
so much

till when..after a life time of slavery/wage slaving
you get the payoff..

and inflation has deflated
that huge old/number

into nuthin

its clever how they take away today's values
then pay off..in hyperinflated valuelessness..tomorrow

and make even us knowing this
sustain the theft of super annuation

one tenth extra stolen today..

SUBSIDISED today..by govt
cause tomorrow govt cant pay the pension..lol

[its paying TODAYS and TOMORROWS pensions today..
[yet cant pay just one pension tomorrow?]

yep its circular spin like that
that sees the mugs get conned all the time

""people here can't get past "religion"..
that we as a species are heading for an impasse.""

thats man delusion
[peers..stealing the good words..of the good messengers
[of the good god]....to subvert their followers freewill[and cash]
today

""If we take the religious aspect..of the discussion out of the equation..and focus on what we are doing..to ourselves
and the planet..it's fairly obvious..that we can't continue on..the way we are.""

yeah im sick of those
in the know..[minimum tax paying peers]..
and their hangers on

getting my lunch money..for free
and gifting it..to yet other peer's

""Any change..that we would make
to improve our standing..on this planet
is called enlightening ourselves.>""

no
any change
will mean more dollars
taken..from y'our public purse

cause some..""peer/revieuw"..says so*

lol

ITS THE BEST THING
for you..*to be doing..
to give your money..to me

[today]

and i gift you back pennies on the dollar
maybe tomorrow..[if ya live that long]

"The evidence is clear, as in a February 2009 Gallup Poll, taken on the eve of the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin's birthday, that reported only 39 percent of Americans say they "believe in the theory of evolution," while a quarter say they do not believe in the theory, and another 36 percent don't have an opinion either way.

The same poll correlated belief in evolution with educational level: 21 percent of people with a high school education or less believed in evolution. That number rose to 41 percent for people with some college attendance, 53 percent for college graduates, and 74 percent for people with a postgraduate education.

Clearly, the level of education has an impact on how people feel about evolution.

Another variable investigated by the same poll was how belief in evolution correlates with church attendance. Of those who believe in evolution, 24 percent go to church weekly, 30 percent go nearly weekly/monthly, and 55 percent seldom or never go.

Not surprisingly, and rather unfortunately, religious belief interferes with people's understanding of what the theory of evolution says ..."

http://preview.tinyurl.com/godgaps

"... The problem seems to be related to the age-old God-of-the-Gaps agenda, that the more we understand of the world the less room there is for a creator God. This is bad theology, as it links belief to the development of science."

Or if you feel game:

http://tinyurl.com/godgaps

in your own words..explain ya god gaps link
or explain the concept

thing is you got no first life genus
nor no second genus..the first 'evolved' from

and putting up survey..from the clever guy magazines...lol
how despirite

if you claim science..use the scientific nomoculture
use the right science words

like have you heard of mendel[a priest]
who revealed the mechanism mendalism
[as in mendelic inheritance]

he exposed the ressesive..versis dominant inheritors
just mendalism...a key biological tool..[refutes evolution]

but again..im talking to a guy who trusts other clever guys
cause it saves having to explain any science
it saves having to learn it

ie have faith..in the clever guys
guys and gal's..that ALSO didnt study science
yet developed faith in the sience peers

[just like the deluded..having faith
in the ritualised peers of the church..*and the state}

its usually decidedly clever
to back the clever guys

but if you cant expklain the science
ALL YA GOT IS FAITH

your trusting the science is fact
but its not even proper theory

bonnie..ol mate...one day one of your lot
will name the fitst genus..name the second genus[that the first may have 'evolved'..from..but till then

all ya got is a theo'suss..that
essentially is only the anti thesus..of
the god done it mob..trouble is both are only by faith

name 1st..name 2 de genus
make a science prediction
replicate...'the science'...to the prediction

in short make just one like it
use ya own dust and cell membrain

if you cant make the cell
you got bucklies making life
let alone evolving it..no matter how much ya spin it

ya got bucklies FAULSIFYABLE/proof
bucketloads of faith
in god i trust

oh

and
'the catoholic church'...
supports evolution...

but that support..is wrong
[they took that stand on faith...lol..its easier to join the clever guys..than prove god did evolve every new genus[so we see the pattern..follow the path god led...[but will never create our own new genus..EVER*

but we wont live that long

BUT
our great grandkiddies..will know we were wrong

clearly god alone 'evolves'
as we ask him..for bodies
better suited to our true lusts

if you want to be..a beast
there is heaps of beasts/body forms..to chose from

so far mankind..is the highest
of the default..[material]..incarnations

but look...use your mind...

apes mutated
[lol]..evolved..into apes
[monkies into monkies

fleas into fleas..dog into dogs
for MILLIONS of years

then less than 100 milenia
[only one hundred thousand years
supposedly]...something far abouve the beasts 'evolved'..relitivly overnight

but in evolution terms
this highest pinacle..will dead end

so the devolution begins

[mate there is TWO THOUSAND..different mutations..difference..
between ape and you..

thats two thousand..individual changes[lol..eviloootions]..
that all need to get filterd past..the 'survival of the fat-test'[lol science survival test]

and ya got..*no clue
how it could be done overnight..[80/100 thousand years ago]

its such a joke...only the faithfull..will swallow the trickery
[thats why evoltion..is drummed into kids..before they dare ask too many questions

cause if nuthin..your posts reveal
ya got nuthin..

so teach/preach..ya faith..
[anti faith..knowing nuthin..of ya alternate [anti=god]..option

not even the basic beginnings[first life]
let alone the next 'evolution'...into lol..the next *new genus

in short by faith
[anti-faith in theo..creator]..
but by faith *alone..

[welcome to the science-fact free zone]
all science fact...lol..but no science methodoligy

OUG I respect your right to your views and beliefs, do not share them but as said your rights are clear.
Rather stay near the threads intended path.
I admit to researching the end times and predictions on the net for years.
Have a feeling we all do, we should look back too, at failed predictions, some are very funny.
Humanity has always needed to know if we can predict future and it may be linked to other belief not seemingly linked to reality.
But I believe SOME CAN see things others can not.
Almost half current predictions about this year,at least, are not related to Christianity.
Think we me here, over half the world are not Christians, so all faiths need to be researched about this year.
It is likely runner will be insulted but fact is those others are as human as us, every God I ever heard of says so.
Most online predictions say no end of the world, those that do are as believable as winning lotto without a ticket.
But look at predictions, Christian to Mother Shipton, about earth quakes floods and an end to the Catholic Church.
Who knows.
Any one recommend a good site?

wiki is always a good starting point Belly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

Gotta chuckle at Kasting's prediction given the current mêlée :)

One Under God
I cannot follow your posts.

Many people commenting seem unable to come to grips with the span of time this planet has been in existence and how that time span permits evolution and mutation to cause change.

At least 6 million years ago, Australopithecus afarensis existed. Two forces acted over time on afarensis, selection and mutation, and resulted about 4m years ago in A. africanus. Over the next 1.5m years the same processes resulted in Homo habilis, then H. ergaster followed by H. erectus, then H. heidelbergensis and ultimately about 100-150,000 years ago, us, H. sapiens.

The fossil records are quite adequate to verify that history. Somewhere well before A. afarensis his forefathers and the other great apes separated from a common ancestral line. Ages before that even earlier ancestors separated from the ancestral line that in time became monkeys.

If you have trouble with the time scale then examine the history of the structure of the Green River oil shale beds in the USA. These layered beds of vegetable matter and mud accumulated over 6 million years of continuous history.

The coal seams under Sydney, which extent over about 2000km, accumulated over about 30m years either side of 300 million years ago and are separated by various different other bands of deposited material including thick bands of volcanic ash.

All of this information is easy to find and to study. Science does not stand on feet of clay; it stands on verified evidence.

No evolutionist ever claimed that "we came from monkeys" - only that the indications are that we shared a common ancestor.

Like our food crops, every domesticated dog on the planet today for example, was created through deliberate cross-breeding starting from wolves over some centuries so I imagine random combinations plus mutations over millions of years could throw up vast variations on their own.

However I must also conclude that the Creationist version means that all the different races of humans were simultaneously "zapped into existence" and are all intentionally independent of each other. A pity then that we are so genetically identical with each other and have interbred.

Further to Foyle's eminently sensible post, I also suggest UOG, et al, that you listen to today's news. The lead story on most TV channels this evening was about super bugs that have become drug resistant.
There was story on the ABC this morning about Tuberculosis bacteria that used to respond to antibiotics and now does not. In several countries people are once again dying of TB.
How do you think these drug resistant bugs came into being? They didn't exist a year ago; now they do.
This is a perfect example of adaptation by natural selection as a result of changing environment.
It's insane to deny evolution; it's happening all around you, every minute of every day.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

Good stuff those last three posts, and true.
Now let me say why I think SOME refuse to look at truth.
SOME Christians, put any follower any God here, have not started out as believers.
Having fell in life and clutched the straw that divides humanity, they think they found a reason for living, even if it is beyond belief.
Yes humanity is threatened by such as the super bug.
But by the fact we seem unable to manage anything very well.
The news is in all probability always going to support predictions made by some one at some time.
But if we truly look at that news, it too seems to tell of our doom.
On the very brink of middle east nuclear war,massive starvation.
And our impending failure/need to bail out would finances.
Highlighted by our inability to stop future banking/lending problems bringing the GFC back time after time.
The day humanity excepts we no longer need God, that we are one, we take the next step, far most important one we ever take to solving problems not making them.

Dear Belly,

I do not share your optimism. Belief in God is just one manifestation of unreasoning faith. Buddhism does not incorporate a belief in God and has been put forward as a religion of peace. The Japanese officer corps in WW2 were a most violent group of men but were almost all Buddhists. Belief in God is just one facet of a belief in the improbable. The problem is deeper in belief in God. Humanity is beset by the urge to believe in nonsense. Alternate medicines, Marxism and the idea that faith is a virtue are all ideas that have led us down the garden path of unreason. Doubt, questioning and asking for proof are all part of reason. However, reason is not enough either. We feel, love and are motivated by the irrational in other ways than faith. Let us live with the realisation that we are going to have to live with problems that we are not going to solve.

mr bell quotes..""OUG..as said your rights are clear.
Rather stay near the threads intended path.
I..the end times and predictions...

then three other posters
posting in relation to evolution

then this
[from mr bell...""Good stuff those last three posts,..and true.
Now let me say why I think..SOME refuse to look at truth.""

lol so clearly
if you want to hear it..[its to topic
if you dont..and cant refute it..but then others try oh so feebly[thats lol to topic

but heck lets go on pointing out absurdities
""Humanity has always needed to know..if we can predict future""

and that is egsactly what science needs to do..TO CLAIM SCIENCE
survival of the fittest..isnt science[thats nature]

natural isnt science

""SOME CAN see things..others can not>>""

lol
yep ya got it right
if you like it you se it
if you are too ignorant to get it..you wont

""I cannot follow your posts.""

this comment indicates one ignorant of science[specificly biological relitive nomoculture..ESSENTIAL to know to explain the science

but clearly not grasped
by ignorants..having faith..in science..
but not having the tools..[not science gnosis]

""unable to come to grips..with the span of time
this planet has been in existence""

get a grip yaself..

.>.""and how that time span permits evolution""

sio time is now claimed to be a science 'law'[relitive to evolution]
explain those genus..unchanged..for millions of years[google so called living fossils]

""Australopithecus afarensis existed.""

its a few fossilised bits..[with no dna]
its phenoptype at best guess..not genotype..
which marco evolution would require[as proof]

""4m years ago in A. africanus.""

so blooming what
looks like means nuthing

your claim is genes..change over time
[lol mendalism refutes ya opinion]

[i quoted 2000 changes..*needed changing
between the closest living 'relitive'..and you]

heck cant you lot see..this improved ape
was such an improvement..none survived...lol

[i know why
but you lot got no clue..[the weakness
of living in faith..in science..

is that you lot
*cant grasp..even the basics [sic]..of the actual/egsistant science
is life from life[ability to breed]

""The fossil records..are quite adequate to verify that history.""

no..that histry...allows a formulation of..*hyposthe[suss]
but only to the extent of change..within that population sample

recalling that most fossils arnt primary deposits..but accumulations..from flood events etc

""even earlier ancestors..separated from the ancestral line'""and many of the genus monkey survive
but the imporoved huh?-man...not one imptroved surved
qed...it failed the survival of fattest test

""All of this information
is easy to find and to study.""

and evwen if ya studied the lot of it
you cant replicte..thus got no science faulsificiability
to wit..not science

""Science..stands on verified evidence.""

just cause you got a ophenotype fossil
that looks like someotherthing..dont mean ya gopt the thing
CAUSE YOU GOT NO DNA..to prove it

cant replicate it
ya dont even got a science
even if ya got a thousand of stones
all ya got is stones[usually a few stone fragments only]

""the indications are..that we shared a common ancestor.""

science is about prooving things
not indicating..its either you got proof[and can replicate it..to wit science]

or ya got faith
conman ancestors..are a dime a dozen
and so many missing links..but ya lot can hypo-theorise all ya like

BUT you got no faulsifyable 'science'

common ancestor..""Like our food crops,""

yes wheat is wheat..sorgum is sorgum
hemp is hemp...NAME THE COMMON ANCESTOR

""every domesticated dog...created through deliberate cross-breeding starting from wolves over some centuries""

lol..dog fossils found with huhmans
for a lot longer than a few hundred years ol boy
heck the egyptians and chinese alone had divergent dogs 2000 years ago

but ol mate all dogs are genus cannus[all can ansd will breed with wolves]..see they are all in the wolf cannus[and interbreeding is essential to prove relationship]

go bred with ya nearest living ancestor
NUTHING...[no relation!..[get it?]

YOU can..""imagine random combinations""
but till ya get a mendelic recombination..ya got nothing
breedability..is the main genus bound..[not breeding leans towards not related]

oh lord..why we got so many opinionated
ignorants[science zealots]..who dont even know science methodology..

""mutations..could throw-up..vast variations..on their own.""

no dear boy..by far most..'mutations'..
[errors of transcription/crossovers/etc]..
GET REPAIRD....!

[get yerself educated..PLEASE*]

get yerself educated..PLEASE* (sic)

hahahahahaha, made my day

the rest..*are lethal..and in the main..quickly/sickly die

a ressesive..may survive
but then most resessives..are also self destructing
when..re-combined..with the same*error..

[see that curerntly..most/science
is study of death..not life]

think why..you cant quote..*living dna
proof..of evolution

*cause it isnt there!

[we done the whole humane genome
and proof of ape decent=nil..!]

heck mate..we share 50%..of our dna
with a bannana...[genes are such sticky/tricky things]
thus your peers avoid genes...cause..[they]..like mendalism
refute ya theory..too]

""the different/races""'

is from when noah.'s sons..and their wives
spread out of afrika..*..

were related
cause they are from one..paternal line[noahs]
[and a few divergent..old matriarchal lines]

so yes huhmans interbreed
but to validate..ya theory
ya need to fertilise..*an ape

get it yet?

""super-bugs that have become drug-resistant."""

yep micro_evolution..[within its genus!]

noting that the genus..*hasnt changed!

thus that MIRCO evolution within_the_genus
cant validate genus_evolution[macro/evolution..INTO..*NEW GENUS

lol..why so many clever diss-believers
who dont know science lord

""Tuberculosis bacteria""
again all staying within their genera[lol]

""They didn't exist..a year ago;now they do.""

they individually didnt..BUT..*THEIR GENUS DID..!

""a perfect example/of adaptation""

yep not macro/evolution/genus
yes..its micro evolution..within*..the SAME GENUS

""by natural/selection""

not really..there is a dude..often comes into these topics
some educator...who breeds bacteria resistance..for students

*but each surviver..is
the *same genus..ya genious

here is a docter[peer]....teaching other 'docters'
to make resistant bacteria..[to make a spuriolous point re MICRO evolution within..lol..genus

[WERE GETTING SICK..FROM NUTTERRS LIKE THAT]
just trying to validate a lie

""It's insane/to deny evolution;""

i dont deney MICRO EVOLUTION..[within its family genus]

but macro..thats delusion..

even 4 of ya in a row,,got no idea..of
what ya theory..is really*..saying

GENUS EVollolvING..INTO..*NEW GENUS*
not one proof of that..EVER happening

not once
not ever...no recorded/reported/known
evolving..*into new genus..EVER

got it?

MICRO-evolution..[within genus
""it's happening all around you,..every minute of every day.""

yes it is
BUT EVOLUTION..[the theory],..is about...*new genus
appearing by micro evolution's..of species

[if..only...you really could grasp
how insane that is]

genus bounds..*prevent this happening
cause genus bounds were found..when breeding failed..!

it's..in its own defintions..fixed firmly..
no breed-ability..=*..different genus..

but ya got no proof
again..lol

cause even ya peers
got no proof..![never]

ok OUG the answer is no thanks, no God no last minute conversion just in case.
No education to fear.
A test this subject is of interest to me, in truth I feel to many.
UTube shows hits in the hundreds of thousands on this subject, after any major event books on the subject fly out of stock.
How have similarity's in predicted events and likely events come together in this year.
No prediction but likely events seem to be.
Big conflict in the middle east soon, we are haveing more volcanoes and earth quakes so more are likely.
Tsunami as a result? yep.
World finances could over night fail, what then.
Will China and India be benevolent on taking the worlds largest economy and in Chinas case armed forces?
This OUG uneducated person knows one truth, you can bank on it, no God will save us from our selves.
No God ever,was invented for reasons other than control.
If I could invent my own heaven true, and know it would be mine always.
It would not be on my knees at the feet of a small brown man off middle eastern appearance being eternally nice.
I would with no further consideration take this country this life ;lumps bumps faults and all.
Think about the things we could learn while your knees wore out.

I for one simply adore UOG's posts.
They make no sense whatsoever, but they're so damned entertaining.
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au

david f,

Because it has no deity, Buddhism is technically not a religion - just a belief system, albeit with ceremony and ritual.

It's a religion in the same sense that baldness is a hair colour and not collecting stamps is a hobby.

However it doesn't make it immune from violent practices. Even the Dalai Lama has a reputation for oppressing rival groups and is even more homophobic than the Pope.

Another thing all religions have in common is that they are all based on a fear of death and offer some sort of eternal existence - otherwise they are inherently worthless.

The eager notion of some sort of pending final apocalypse as a justification and resolution of belief seems more like the result of impatience than enlightenment.

*They make no sense whatsoever, but they're so damned entertaining.*

Sheesh, don't encourage him, the OLO walls are already plastered
with his rants. I tend to scroll past most of them, but I guess
for him its like psychiatric therapy.

Right now its back to the old genus rant. OUG still doesen't get
it that genus is simply a human construct for classification.
At the end of the day, all living things share genes, dna etc, so
all living things are related, much to the disgust of the religious,
some of who think that we humans are related to angels, rather then
pigs, goats, primates and all the rest

Dear Rache,

Buddhism is a non-theistic religion. Religions do not have to incorporate a deity. You are defining religion in terms of the religion you are familiar with. It is not essential that a religion incorporate belief in a deity.

yabby while I am not too popular with you at present.
And not haveing a shot at OUG
I can find not a single word in that post that is not well put.
Religion needs fear to fuel it, needs promises it can not fore fill and hurting folk to promote it.

thankyou..david for not piling on too

anyhow as your post is the only one that said anything
i quote it

""Buddhism is a non-theistic religion.""

thats a huge joinder of concepts there

it has its dietie[who isnt into diet]
but its got is idol budda buddy..that sits arround
selling absurdities of his own impotances

like my thumb covers all of creation
in hiolding this flower..i hold all of creation

im fat...my piles are itching
i want to get up and move..but my bones are turned into stone

bah..its got a per
its a belief system..with peers

its followed religeoisly
even got a mantra mindless mantra,,to dull hearing
seing yet not sweeing..being yet non being..why arnt you believers fleeing?

""Religions do not have to..incorporate a deity.""

opf course not
and peer master priest figure head..creed or ritual or costuminging..rule regulation espri de core..will do

""You are defining religion
in terms of the religion you are familiar with.""

yes egsactly
to get fully..into the lies and deciets..of one
reveals what is inhwerant..with all deciets..[beliefs in deciet]

and the more believers ya got
that blindly follow others 'beliefs'
the worse it is

most of you believe evolution is fact
you believe its fact..cause your ignorant of science

thats why even david
smarter than the rest..dont refute the science

and instead comments briefly..of what he has commented on
as quoted abouve...religeons..[and fat controling watchers]

any peer will do

so david thank you

for me..its do as thy will
nothing you can do..can hurt me

do what you will
but not..in my name

i'm..my own good
just as none..but god speaks..for god
he dont need others..[cause],...he talks direct..one to one

just to you..talking
only about you

just to me..for
the intention..spoken to me

just to one..[one to one..directly...]..to EVERYONE..
his still/quite..inner voice..is *ALL LOVING*

to each of us..[individually]...in real time
all the time..[he is the love]

but to be fair...he
lets the opposite side
have acces..to your mind's links..to brain..too

so you
can chose..if its from good
or for vile..or anything inbetween

live other lives..do as others do
or just do
as good requires...
[freewill/freechoice]

all or nuthing!

[and by chosing..good or vile
we live y'our first material lifes lessons..]
KNOWING..each deed/work..was't done..of y'our own free will...

none..can better hear
what god plans..for you..

that you..hearing him
speaking his living love[light]..direct...
capital one..to principle one

for the good
living good..of all life..is one

atonement
[at_one_meant]....

""It is not essential
that a religion..incorporate belief..in a deity.""

but what faith..you CHOSE..to give..to materilist
fat buddas..sitting watching
doing nuthing

yearning for nuthiness,..lol

[is
as you chose...]
the mindless accept the science
the mindfull select the silence..

nothing..to win
nuthin..to loose

but

and those..too ignorant to learn
the languages..of their beliefs..
UN-willing..to test their beliefs

well they get..as they planted

nuthin

but who to judge..the weed
from the wheat?
[sold by the tare]..
but..the consunmer/user.

*.."he"..who eats it...
and should be..more gratefull
to the god what made..it..and made it grow
[him who grew it...then them what deliverd it]

but somehow..he that grows..what we sow
never outgrew helping us few..[become many]..

too many?
but thats not..for the few..
let alone the many,..to dec-side

thats only for him
who..*refuses..to de-side

he carries us..ALL...
more than we can ever really know

he asks nuthing

nothing..!
0
zero
naaaada

those who ask
ask not*..*for him

not
"in my name"..nor thyne
but thyne own...will..

*or the will
of delusional peers

just like egsemplifuied abouve..lol

mindless followers
the perty/party faithfull
tha bane..of any thinking man

the..ignorant destroy
that gnosis builds

this hellish peer age
is what dies this year

there are 7 seals to break
or rather the lying faulse god head [peers]

you can find the lies
for every lie..for believability
must contain mostly truths..

[the extra
the lies]
takes more effort..
thats the greed/creed icing on top

ya been decieved..evoltion is a lie
money is debt...heck i been chewing away at the seals

but its going to take 144.000
to fully rip the seals off thyne eyes

let alone thyne ears
lol youtube clips magazines
peerr moderated sites..[blinding balancing over sight]..lol

we end up laughing so much
soon..once we see the joke

anyhow im most despised..and refuse to quench the smoking stench
and wouldnt have it be my life..in another way

better to live in love
than peerr rage ignorances

rip the eals off quickly
its just like a bandaid..left on too long

so much to do to avoid harvest
its heavey..and the workers are few

but not anything i do for others
lord i only to it for you

the fat/her
of all love life light logic licence and locus

OUG the once upon a time Belly, knew your Bible.
He like you thought he could rest, no need existed to be other than born again.
God would do the rest.
In time Belly was forced to take his intellect back, our of that cupboard dust it off and start again, to think.
An understanding was growing, to leave a child arm broken for days, waiting for Christ to heal him was not right.
Watching a tent meeting, being part of it, a thing I loved as a kid, seeing the Pastors mother in law walk up on stage, name not mentioned, to be healed.
Leaving the crutch, well the wooden one, no one had ever seen her with before, behind.
Naughty, but know,once every tow truck driver every ham radio operator, ANY ONE WHO WANTED TO could here old Mobile phones.
A conversation between my pastor, and another,about the financial benefits of Christianity spoke to me.
In the end mate only me,I Belly can be accountable for my every move action act.
No God no walking stick for the mind no hiding from my duty to be as good as I can as often as I can
Belly of old would have had this last ever word with your God.
Thanks bloke you did a good job.
Training was excellent and the rule book too.
Time I got out in the real world and grew, before I go bloke.
If you can have a few words with a couple of your mob?
Seems they think following you is compulsory!
Stopped reading fables a long time ago.

belly...we know each-other..passingly
you should know..that i am not,..*of any religeon

not with any creed..group or assosiation
[religeously..or irreligeously]

just judicially..rejecting all of them
and their rituals..and divisive/creeds

indeed..lol
like jesus..would wait..days/to heal anyone
that type of materialist thinking mate..that's not..for/nor of god[not good]

so i despise..lies/and creeds...faiths
as much as the faithless

but not
their messengers..nor their message
[they are clues..of their own path..to god][good]

im..into god
[and..his creation]

just god[in reality]..but you
you looked..at religeon..and not once..
at the only true good..[god]

[voice not heard..on the street]

but/mate..its ok..im not intrested..
in saving your soul
because it is just fine..[with god]..

we cant/NOT..but save ourselves..in time..[all of us]
once we decide..we wont do this..or that..hurtfull thing

as we simply grow up..we find god[good]
was here..all the time

its not outside us..lol..to find
but safe..ever inside/us_ALL..for ever

we cant..*not have god...[and his healing
takes its natural heaLING TIME's]...[gods time..is not money]

god fixes..the cold[3 days]
god fixes..a broken bone..3 weeks etc

what the biggest crime religeons do..
is they make the good/god..[of life love logic etc]

into some dumb judgemental santa..or old geezer..or trident

when god is one
in all..[everyone]

emmanuel[god_with_us]
the life/force..in_every_life..!

[all that 'natural stuff"..bodies do]
god is *the one..
doing the lot of it

no more
no less

churches stuck in..the im the master/servant mode
can never grasp/the ultimate servant..the most..[god]

serving even..the most vile living...[least]..thier and our lives..

serving us all
our every living breath

just you..plus god!
whatever creed/religeon etc

gods voice..is love grace mercyfull etc

any not love..
isnt from god

omnipresent
thus omnipotant

till the last life dies
god is there..sustaining it
its every life process..

sustaining into its life
every bit..of natural..living

i searched once
for the creatures of the deep sea
and feel to know..that the deep..[as mentioned in the bible]
[in the beginning]

..was also full
of much the same critter genus..
that still lie..deep under the seas

no religeon is going to say that
cause no-one thought that deeply..re
the really real deep..as deep today...

as it was
...in the beginning

*yabby while I am not too popular with you at present.*

Actually Belly, you are quite wrong there. I think that
we have just been involved on different threads. I sometimes
read your posts, but if I have nothing new or interesting
to contribute, I tend not to post, there is no point really.

We'd probably enjoy a beer together, but with three dogs
and a huge menagarie of other animals, its just not so easy
for me to travel anywhere.

No evolutionist ever claimed that "we came from monkeys"
rache,
what about all the evidence that so many humans are turning into monkeys ? Isn't that evolution ? Many even start to look like monkeys even with clothes on.

Yes understand yabby and agree this barma forest virus has me not very likely to travel.
After Q fever and Type 2 sugar recond I do not want to know whats next.
Tried,some of us, to keep the thread on track, it interests me.
Indy please do not judge us all on your self ok?
Now one of many predicted events for this year is first contact, with Alien life.
Interesting.
But will we adopt their God, will they have one, will they take one of ours, what one.
Has first contact been made already.
Is the impact of telling us visitors have no or other God the reason we are not told.
Is belief in Gods the ultimate CONTROL tool, divide and rule?

Indy please do not judge us all on your self ok?
Hmh, Belly, struck a nerve did I ?
"those with no retort resort to ridicule".

Anyhow, there is an end of times of some kind happening right now. This has been going on for as long as mankind or those attempting to convince us they're part of it have been around. It's merely the West's turn to go under as did Egypt & Greece & Rome & perhaps Atlantis. Even the Asian region has gone through these cycles (no not the pedal ones). Just look at the amazing structures there from the ancient past. Westerners & that includes all races have begun the decline of their civilisation for about a century now. The next to peak will be the sub continent & China again. It's all so clearly evident.

I think that Individual's point is well made, and this will indeed be the Asian Century.
Although not absolutely true, the trend over the last few millenia ha been for empires to have progressively shorter durations.
Compare Egyptian/Roman/Ottoman/British/American; suggesting that the American empire will be of shorter duration than earlier empires.
On the other hand, given the extent to which nationas are now bound by speed of travel, trade, internet, etc, the chronological boundary points between empires will not be as starkly defined.
A rising Asia will still be dependent upon the US and Europe from a trade point of view. Conversely, US and European investment in Asia will still be enormous, thus transferring some of the spoils of empire back to the "Old empires".
However, these will be geopolitical and economic differentiations, and so quite unrelated to the thread issue of the Judeo-Chrisitan End Times, which, I would posit, can be safely relegated to dusty mythological tomes.

belly/quote..'"one of many..lol..predicted/events
for this/year
is first-contact,..with Alien_life.""

strike that...*off the list
[not because..it wont happen..but because
the lie is.."they""..are allready here..

*THUS they...HELPED
*CAUSE..lol..THE PROBLEMS!

further...even
at the..'speed of light'
it would take over 2000 years..to reach
the nearest planetoid..[so..to get here..!

they must have..left..'there'
40 generations ago..!

[in short phyisicly impossable][what pay-load should these return 'home with'..to "pay"..for 100 generations..
lol..'lost in space'

that said..the govtmaster/minders..do have..a plan..
for a christ/like alian's arrival..

[have the hologram teqnoligy ready..and other suppressed teqnologies etc[have even made..actual cosmetic[not cosmic]modifications..[plastic surgery...'alians']..look/feel..living[programed]..mutants

think starwars..on speed
selling solutions..to all...lol

money isnt a concept..they could grasp or use
they could ask..to fill their antigravity device
and go hide with the 7 grays..lol..on the other side of the moon[another scam]....

just think they sold ya..on the fake moon landings
on the towers..heck this is better planned and financed

and..just what we will beg for
[during the pandemic
planned to happen..in a town near you anyday soon]

jesus told us
[you will hear rumours etc
keep the peace within..love god..by love of neighbour

"""will we adopt their God,""

there is only one good/living/loving god
that lords it over 9 human type races..[in the universe][swedenberg]
we are the ONLY one..that can understand symbol and word

any advanced race..must have meditated..lol
through 2000 years..to get here..

[likely they are
just as crazey..as the other end-timmers]

but if its them
or be bound..to our money changers
needing an excuse..to loot and plunder..the last drop..

through them

well if its not free
its a con

jesus came..and returned
3 days later[get it]

he has gone
to build us..a room
in..our fathers house..

[we rejoin him]
not have..him come back
again and again...lol,..[the third time..]..!

we didnt get his wisdoms..last time
the gnosis/well..is far more poluted
this time..

he died
to prove..no day of judgment
no reserction day..[told even a thief on the cross beside him]

on this day..
you will be..in heaven

Anthonyv I respect your posts even on differing with them, find you an interesting person.
I contend Individuals [yes I understand Anthony, likes less crude conduct than mine sometimes is] in referring to the human race as Monkeys.
In habitually inferring I and other ALP supporters are lessor beings , deserves to reap what he so willingly sows.
OUG are you fair dinkum, so you think that but also your God ?
Raining so on the net looking at this subject.
Have we noticed, China following on from past colonial nations not alone most country's are playing this chess game.Using country's as pawns
This will be an interesting year if it is not the one a hard war starts can we think it will never happen.

Sorry went of a little Indy does that to me.
OUG
question bloke how did God get here, from what place, why can others not do it too.
I honestly miss read you posts first line,that is as much as I read the first time around.
Mate truly mans achievements are his alone including writing every holy book that ever existed.

One should have a little humility in making any historical predictions regarding end-times, the Chinese century or any event in the future. Two tremendous events of the twentieth century were WW1 and the long dark night resulting from Lenin's counterrevolution. There were very few who accurately predicted the cataclysm that WW1 turned out to be. WW2 was in a large sense a continuation of WW1 with an intermission. Marx predicted a Marxist takeover in the developed industrial countries. As it was Fascism was the preferred mode of tyranny in the developed countries with an authoritarian tradition, Marxism was the preferred mode of tyranny in the peasant countries with an authoritarian tradition and developed democratic countries successfully resisted both forms of tyranny. However, my point is that these massive events were not in general predicted, and the predictions being made in this thread for the future are probably no more accurate.

David f true but great differences exist in those predictions and the ones we speak of.
Countless thousands believe some substance exists in some predictions.
I found it hard that any religion got such a run in such a thread.
And until death, find and found, continuing denials by the very best Christians/ put any other creed here, of the other religions and Gods.
Leave Mysticism, out and prediction can be made, based on only perceived views based on current actions and events, that do come true .
Hence the stock market and futures exchange.
So I launch in to such thoughts .
The wars deaths currency problems in our face, in my view will lead to one or a few world government and tighter control for every one.
If not.
Armageddon may well be coming, for parts of the world.

true david..no one really knows..the little things
thus no-one..predicts..the bigger things

[noted this morning
that the..year of the dragon begins
[and its suposedly a super charged dragon...in a super cycle]
[more detail needed..of/course]

so ignoring..the things..that are fact
for the things..we can opinion on

Belly..quote..""how did God get here""

thats why words..are slippery..belly

see god isnt..*only there..[he is also here]

see omnipresent..means he is every where,
[meaning he cant 'just' be here..nor there..only everywhere..all at once]

but..look through the words...'here'
as loosly meaning here..[in this..[earthy]..material place]

well to be here..he needs a body..like we do..and
thus his 'here'...is in*..every living thing..anywhere

[where life is
god..is sustaining it..its life/living]

how he got 'here'..is by..first creating..'here'
[this he may have done...by saying the words..[as per gen 1]

or by other..as yet not found...science processlol
[much like..he MAY have..'evolved'..new genus[etc]in theory[lol]

thing is..we dont know
but i think..it was via a big bang

but there are infinite..big bangs...so
there must be..a big collapse..[before*..every new*..big bang]

[big bang changes time/space etc[materially]..and god being life...that spirit life lives on[eternally]in every place

regardless..of what we..[mater]..does

thus god..wasnt 'created'..nor
thusly..can he be destroyed

[just as life..in spirit..cant be destroyed[it being energy][spirit..contained..within its soul form..[according to what our..physical*'life form '..was

[or has since..[spiritually]..evolved into]

see..once we are gifted..*life
that life gift..lives on spiritually..*eternally

[even an aborted baby...[even an aborted blasto-disck
lives on...growing..as it develops[spiritually]..

EVEN..after its abortion..

the heaven/hell realm..isnt a place
isnt..*a material location...

it essentially..is gods holy living spirit
as made flesh..via the flesh

[the place..where
every life..springs from..and returns to]

god thus..cant come from..""from what place""
cause essentially..he is omnipresent..[with]..in..*every place/space

sustaining us ALL..our lives./..from with-in..[emmanuael],

""why can others..not do it too.""

well we actually can...but..as jesus has proved
our faith..is weak..[our mortal/validation..of this material reality
means we are so sure..this is real..

we cant do that..lol..im-possable
[against..the laws..of this material realm]..from within..our limited material minds

but..in the next life
we all*..can

[somehow actualy dying
but then..lol..finding ya not really dead..

well that
firms-up..our faith[lol]

firms up[solidifies]..makes real

""I honestly..miss read..your posts first line,
that is as much..as I read..the first time around."'

its ok belly..[no need for blame or guilt nor ex-plain/ation
or any of that negative stuff...

the questions need to be asked
and you dare to ask..

[the question
is more important..than the reply]

its your honesty..that keeps me replying
and keep on trying..to give the most..reason-able reply possable
[in lue of actual provable science proof..

cause science isnt about proof..its about prediction[lol][this specific process...means this specific result[science needs logic laws rules]

as much as the spirit
needs activity/passion/free-will

""Mate truly
mans achievements
are his alone""

wrong
at so many levels
sports people need coatches

need to know..teqniques/metghod..train
and get*..to the place..someone needs to measure their 'achievements'..etc etc]

political parties/unions..*ALL NEED MANY
even if only a few..get the cheese[by lying][head the beast

im writing..using words
words you didnt invent..nor me!

'al-one...'
[mate see the joke in that]..

ya ready
on..and in..your body..
live BILLIONS of other lives
from micro beasts[micro fauna]..to micro flora..bacterial virus worms ,lice etc etc

if every living bug
was removed..from our body
WE WOULD INSTANTLY DIE...by itself..we cant live!

look at life mate

basicly we are a stomach[a worm]
that has found ways to feed its gut
[and everything living in its gut]
by devolping a collective material brain/legs/habds
..nose mouth..fet sex oegans etc etc etc]

no mate..we arnt alone!
ever..

nor is god...who is egsactly like us
[just a worm..collecting togetherr..whatever god needs
to be god..[good]..

YES..every holy book..that ever existed...
was written by the hand of man

as filterd via his mind..with good and bad voices
each..adding in their little bit..they thought true holy true

but we can only *get..god's good
by filtering the words
to find the goodly[godly]

ahh men
so close..to being angels
but so loving to be being..just like demons

so highly evolved..yet so beastly in our animal natures
all natures belong to god

ok
i still the voice
with/in...[its non stop]

firms up[solidifies]..makes real

""I honestly..miss read..your posts first line,
that is as much..as I read..the first time around."'

its ok belly..[no need for blame or guilt nor ex-plain/ation
or any of that negative stuff...

the questions need to be asked
and you dare to ask..

[the question
is more important..than the reply]

its your honesty..that keeps me replying
and keep on trying..to give the most..reason-able reply possable
[in lue of actual provable science proof..

cause science isnt about proof..its about prediction[lol][this specific process...means this specific result[science needs logic laws rules]

as much as the spirit
needs activity/passion/free-will

""Mate truly
mans achievements
are his alone""

wrong
at so many levels
sports people need coatches

need to know..teqniques/metghod..train
and get*..to the place..someone needs to measure their 'achievements'..etc etc]

political parties/unions..*ALL NEED MANY
even if only a few..get the cheese[by lying][head the beast

im writing..using words
words you didnt invent..nor me!

'al-one...'
[mate see the joke in that]..

ya ready
on..and in..your body..
live BILLIONS of other lives
from micro beasts[micro fauna]..to micro flora..bacterial virus worms ,lice etc etc

if every living bug
was removed..from our body
WE WOULD INSTANTLY DIE...by itself..we cant live!

look at life mate

basicly we are a stomach[a worm]
that has found ways to feed its gut
[and everything living in its gut]
by devolping a collective material brain/legs/habds
..nose mouth..fet sex oegans etc etc etc]

no mate..we arnt alone!
ever..

nor is god...who is egsactly like us
[just a worm..collecting togetherr..whatever god needs
to be god..[good]..

YES..every holy book..that ever existed...
was written by the hand of man

as filterd via his mind..with good and bad voices
each..adding in their little bit..they thought true holy true

but we can only *get..god's good
by filtering the words
to find the goodly[godly]

ahh men
so close..to being angels
but so loving to be being..just like demons

so highly evolved..yet so beastly in our animal natures
all natures belong to god

ok
i still the voice
with/in...[its non stop]

if god is a worm
whats a worm hole look like

good question

anyone?

OUG have to be a bit honest here.
As a very young bloke away from home working in Sydney I would pop of to the Domain on Sundays to hear what we called then, Sprookers.
Like a corner in London and other City's it was a crowed place all views being expressed by speakers, street corner sprookers.
Even from a Christian back ground I would duck and dive to get away from the Christian ranters.
Bloke with no teeth name long gone, was hugely popular, and controversial.
A that stage I had a bus trip to work.
A Christian sprooker rode that bus, bet he turned more away from God than most.
I walked after putting him off the bus one day, driver winked bought me a beer one day but had no choice.
Good thread but getting of this bus ok?

too good to topic to let it die
or decend intio name calling

belly..""Bloke with no teeth..name long gone,
was hugely popular,..and controversial....""

yep i know the type
dyed in the wool loony welsh unionist

""I walked..after putting him..off the bus one day,
driver winked..bought me a beer one day..but had no choice."'

i think i get what your saying
but how is this related to today

oh ya shoving me off the thread
got it

""Good threa.. but getting of this bus ok?""

fine if you get 0fF..the bus mate
but dont throw away the topic..cause you cant reply

seen the visions in the heavens?
as an old man are you dreaming dreams

yep me too
who would have thunk it
its all unwinding..as was predictaterd

regardless if the bus is full or empty
its going over the edge

""A that stage,I had a bus trip to work."'

get one today
bet your shocked at how much that same trip costs today

NO WAY YOUR WAGES...have kept up with the ticket price

""A Christian sprooker""

end time sprooker
or holier than thou sprukker
[all sprukkers arnt the same]

clearly if people liked him..he wasnt hatefull

he..""rode that bus,""

YOU..''bet..he turned more away from God than most.""

what has him to do with god
if i dont like the sprukkking
i stop listening...you just stopped listening

then one day..pushed..[too far]....but people
were too kind to you to say so..

but heck the driver/athiest...you made his day...[great]

now to reach the end
of this..end times topic
i couldnt let finnish on your strange point

throwing him..off the bus..
proved god dont egzist...?...how?