Put the knee length boots on for this one, you will need them.
I am, after a life time of considering all options ,still of the view only Labor best serves my wishes.
And while plaintively calling in the dark, for conservatives to look in wards, aware that will not happen.
And that, in the interests of my party, I am duty bound to.
Who would think, an ex union official, a proud committed one, who loves still his past one, would say this.
SOLIDARITY is a swear word!
A blanket to cover sins and those who knife my party, not by actions like mine, but by, look at todays story, such as Rex Jackson,a past Minister in a Labor Government, led by a criminal .
If we get a trot I intend to enter the dark corners of my party, challenge the self seekers who are a blot on it.
Hopefully plow the ground for a renewal we badly need.
I am aware, many are, the crimes of maggots within my party are more visible than conservatives.
And that conservatives match act for act,some times far exceed .
But too, get the boots on rain coat too, a skill exists I have no need off mud throwing and negativity.
So we will see no conservative driven insights.

Why did I put this thread up?
What was my intention.
Well GY thinks it is disjointed, maybe should not have got a run.
I think I wanted to talk directly to my party, in the first full year of a reform, one that seems half hearted.
I too am not unaware some here see all evil being generated only by the ALP.
And that, in my view right factions control both party's.
Labor first benefited from factions, then fell foul of them.
It was strong right/center unity factions that got the left from the chest of Labor.
Stopped policy's unacceptable to those Labor existed for, keeping them out of power.
The Catholic Church, still the ALP Church today, and its sibling the DLP kept the Conservatives in power.
Look back at my post history and see my unhappiness during Simon Creans time, with his harnessing of union representation in the party.
While standing by my views about Crean I was wrong, he right.
Conferences saw 60% of places given to Unions.
People unaware of issues lining up to vote as told.
By a faction leader who often used that power badly.
Labor is duty bound to never again let NSW, crafted acts of blind stupidity betrayal, ignorance,take place,never again forget a basic.
The ALP/Union movement is no mans property no private groups toy.
First this year return my party to its people not factions.

Any political party exists or should, because it holds views and ideals.
No party should, within its ranks and meetings not hear all views from its members and even those who oppose them.
But no party can survive with policy's most will never except.
I do not for a second value taking on board policy's just to be More popular.
But blindly ignoring voters is no way to the top.
Labor has done well, in achieving much it set out to do.
But failed, as bad as any failure it ever had, in selling its self.
From my viewing platform the Gillard faction in my party has focused more on its dislike of Rudd and Abbott, than selling its self.
A contented view, quite wrong, seems to exist both will drop off and it will be alright.
Ignore Australian voters, our party rank and file but not truth.
If the next election was a raffle,if we found the funds to buy every ticket, Gillard would not win.
Some one would do a moon light flit and it would never be drawn.
As we fight media, negativity, GFC, do not forget my party, even now, never told us what Rudd did, why we took on a dead weight as leader while swimming a deep river.

But blindly ignoring voters is no way to the top.
Belly,
neither is blindly supporting incompetent administration.

Belly, mate, when you have nothing to sell, except a history of failure & stuff ups, what else can you do, but run down your opposition. Just what Gillard does.

When she can't get her coalition partners, the Greens, to support her policies, what does she do but blame Abbott.

Sure you've got a few rotten apples, but so have they all. Labors real problem is the inability to pick, [& perhaps groom], a leader worth more than scrap.

Reform your branches, & take charge again, & Labor can come back.

Leave it in the hands of union bosses, & cunning law graduates, & it is headed for the scrap heap, with your past leaders.

"And while plaintively calling in the dark, for conservatives to look in wards, aware that will not happen."

Belly you may think that it does not happen but that does not make it true.

Like most things there are the extremists who can't fault their side, there are those like yourself who consider theyselves welded to a particular group but recognise some of it's faults and there are moderates who find that one balance the side they prefer one of the other but don't own any allegance to that group and there are those who chop and change for little reason, perhaps a single issue or just a wish for a change.

Many who vote for the coalition are able to see the faults with the parties, systems and individuals involved just as many who vote for Labor, the Greens and other parties do. The difference comes down to which successes and which failings we consider most important, which party we consider does better for the country than the alternatives.

Your claim is far too broad, it may reflect the way some people speak (or post) but does not reflect the reality for many.

R0bert

Dear Belly,

2012 will be an interesting year in politics
that's for sure and what the outcomes will be -
I think it's too early to predict with any
certainty just yet. We face quite a few problems
from last year that still have to be sorted out.
And hopefully they will be with positive outcomes.
However - seeing as the New Year has just begun -
lets look to our future positively with hope.
2011 was a difficult year - 2012 has to be better.

RObert Lexi thanks for your contributions.
Rest assured I think this year is a good one for Labor.
But too navel gazing must continue.
Numbers, the back bone of the ALP and Union movement.
And must never be taken for granted.
I love both, but warn new thinking from new people is needed.
Labor by its nature will be kinder than conservatives to workers and the true poor.
But it must look at why solidarity is no longer what it once was.
Yes factions do put the wrong people in Parliament.
From the Union movement our very best, and our very worst enter that house.
SOLIDARITY! a filthy word! kept pedophiles and criminals in a job.
Say nothing, do nothing, three dyslectic and very unwise Monkeys insulting the rank and file to save grubs.
Yes no corporate board position waits to reward most ALP failures but we must be better than that.
Seeking out *Star Candidates* to win seats, not the best person for the job, shouts to Branch's you do not matter.
Covering up ugly failures insults the ability to think of the electorate.
I challenge why and figure heads party or union should have power for their use not the members use.
I want to avoid getting to slinging mud at conservatives, they do it better than me.
If however others are unable to highlight the internal troubles, the rights kidnapping of the party I will do so after this runs its course.
Policy's!
Labor has to live in todays world, can serve no single group, but must find in its self a renewal of its platform that brings members not chases them away.
Robert Lee Hawk saved the Franklin, Greens won the votes, time we took them on.
If we fail to do so let us find a site for our own burial, our proud history is meaningless.

Belly, "Labor by its nature will be kinder than conservatives to workers and the true poor."

Having worked in the electricity industry in Qld during the Joh era (including the 1985 dispute) and under a number of Labor governments since I'm quite confident that's not the case. Labor has played a lot dirtier with workers than Joh at his worst.

Lot's of two faced manipulation of the system to help their own ends regardless of the impact on workers.

Conservatives won't be very kind to those trying to abuse the system but in my view are often kinder to those who do the right thing.

On the other hand I'm not so confident that "Can Do" and his crowd will be any more decent than the mob currently in power.

R0bert

Labor by its nature will be kinder than conservatives to workers and the true poor.
Belly,
That's what Labor was formed for so many years ago. Since 1972 however, hangers-on academia has hijacked Labor & disguised as ALP started on it's agenda to control everything. Unfortunately for us, they were too impractical then & have descended into outright incompetence which in turn has brought about the loss of Australia as we knew it. They literally crapped on the graves of those who fought for this country.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/gillard-rebukes-hawke-on-unions-20120103-1pjno.html
The link is to tell my thoughts are shared, by the once very top of the union movement and the ALP.
My party, my union movement, must confront these issues.
And do so without fear, no one who understands, can think this proposal is other than in the best interests of both movements mother and its child.
Gillard highlights a concern, she has stood in a high powered union IR forum, as I listened, and told us of her views, not unlike mine and Hawks.
She, stumbling with the need to feed the media, not be more unpopular than she is with unionists say what she thinks they want to hear.
Rest assured, in the privacy of the polling booths, some low income workers never in their life voted Labor.
And be assured too, not always for sound reasons, very many have no intention of ever again voting for her.
Rudd's challenge will come by the end of March.
It is not assured, damage will be done .
Just maybe, if enough disturbance internally takes place, another candidate will win.
If Gillard survives? she will be challenged again, before an election.
My party must confront this truth, it is not the parliamentary members, not the faction heads.
It will not be the true believers who save Gillard/sink the party.
Voters are not to be taken as fools.
Gillard a lady of class good achievement and past, has not made it.
Abbott being replaced will only make her impossible task more so.

Well I will wrap it up rational comments are not appearing but I need to underline my thoughts.
Labor is doing far better than media and others are saying.
Failing however to sell its self.
And failing too in more than talking about reform.
Unions and Labor need not live in one another's pockets, both suffer from a view held by many, that good policy suffers.
No not cutting union funding, that will bring the roof down on me, but remember just who donates to the others.
including big mining and tobacco.
Both union and Labor will gain members if it is clear 50% of votes are not fixed in advance.
I challenge my faction, to look at the miss use of rank and file power.
In doing so entrench the growing thought I betray my life's path.
Not so Labor/Unions must live in todays world and think in terms of tomorrow.
I leave but highlight on my way out, Conservatives, cloaked by the hung Parliament, Gillards failure Rudd's too, have never been so bad.
A thread has started talking of leadership, Abbott surely is the worst in my lifetime to lead his side of the house.
Latham like, he is a fantasy of no substance, no chance no future.

Abbott surely is the worst in my lifetime.
Belly ?,
I thought you were an old bloke like me. Have you forgotten about Whitlam ?

Any one who thinks the views they hold are the only right ones, gives warning they are wrong more often than most.
Any one who , while the word limit is 350 per post,considers a one line insult is enough.
May be better served by some thought put in to posting.
Last to challenge another's right to hold views other than those you hold? a Giggle, but hardly debate.

individual you missed the context "Abbott surely is the worst in my lifetime to lead his side of the house"

Not the worst, just on his side of the house (assuming Belly meant the Coalition rather than opposition leader).

He may be one of the better opposition leaders given what it seems to take to win government now but does not leave a lot of promise that he will be a great PM.

Those who criticise his attack dog style and constant negative portrayal of what the other side is doing might do well to reflect on the fact that both sides do that when in opposition, most recently the one sided portrayal of Work Choices by Labor and the Unions. Clearly some on the margins suffered but some workers benefited from it.

Howard should not have introduced such big changes without taking it to an election, a lesson that Labor appears to have failed to learn.

The portrayal of Work Choices by Labor and the Unions was universally negative regardless of the reality. Likewise the constant claims that the Lib's would increase the rate of GST when in power and various other fabrications used to promote fear in the electorate.

It's an ugly game that I wish we could change but the prtense that Abbott's attacking of the government and it's policies is somehow playing to a different tune to that used by Labor over the years is either a deliberate falsehood or a massive piece of self delusion.

R0bert

welcome to the anti party party

we arnt a party as such..because we have no party line
[every vote is a conscience vote..made locally..decided locally
then our vote is deliverd by OUR member][BY secret ballot[except there is no secret..as all votes must be messaged in..via your free ipad like thingy]

all members get issued with
this eye pod thingy
is also all your id/passport/credit cards..[in one]

your members must have deeclared all assets
put in trust..and only use the party credit line
for all their expenditure..all travel EVERYTHING..[as long as a serving member]

we meet every day..during sitting days

i will move a motion..that sees govt sit..every other day
[when sitting]..

with the off day..online live time
web chatting to my electorate clerks]

we have syncronised
our non party/party..nomination process
its held at the *same time..*all over australia
with attendance in person..or online..IN live time

everyone votes..at the same time
on the same motion..nationally*

membership entiles..our non pary party/unionists..
with party discounts..[in the companies our union invests with..
[as decided at the our review meetings held monthly]

[if *we hold ..he shares
you*..get the discount]

*[the share is held..IN YOUR NAME..not the parties

AND you vote..on your share
not the faceless/masters running the perty/party scam

as a member..of our union non-party/party
you get free web acces...and other freebies..that matter
we insure your home car etc...at huge discount..this allows..us to be fee free[power water rates rego etc]

we are there..[here]
for you

not the..party..nor ego
nor big business/mates

[..we are here to serve you]

atherised johannnine
written by one under god

read by none
ignored by all

so much like..one hand clapping the dead snake
keep one eye..on the prize...

if the party..isnt working for you
stop working..for the party-line*

its easy
all you need is..*respect
stop serving ya mates perty lines

anyhow ..uliar has been..assured..that doing
the big bad things..first..

allows us to..swallow the few crumbs
some may get back..[just prior vote time]

[but its still my smokers/tax gift..paying for it]

whiny woman nannies...time
to call treason..what it is

rife

OUG, I think you must have finally lost it completely.

Only a fool would elect a national government on local issues. Penny wise & pound foolish comes to mind on that one. Independents are too erratic to have in the house, look at the current mess.

I would give my door keys to the local burglar long before I would allow a conscience vote to any polly. How can they vote with what they do not have.

I think you, with your ipad thing, are talking about a local referendum to decide every members vote on every bill.
Sorry mate, but with some of the dills around here, it might almost be better keeping the red witch in there.

The Red witch is at the helm, and rightfully so. 2012 will be another prosperous year, and given the current world troubles, we will again exceed, expectations. Some seem to think they are hard done by, incredible isn't it.

I knew when starting this conversation not every comment would be rational.
And I knew and know still my views are not shared by some on both sides of the house.
Hence get the gum boots on and other comments.
RObert you are a balanced Conservative contributor, you always have been and I always will respect you.
My party must take the maggots out of the word Solidarity, we are far better than that, spive like covering up Pedophiles, Criminals, a host of other things.
Then claiming it is in SOLIDARITY with party/members, my fellow rank and file are not oil rags.
Yet I remain convinced, on every side of the house,good honest tryers out number trash.
I too, know, deeply think I understand, Liberalism is far better than work choices, and all to true Mr Tony Abbott is the worst leader that once great, will be great again, party ever had.
Put the blindness, bigotry, bias in the bin for a while.
Look with me at this truth, Conservatives state and federal have fallen under the very right faction.
Labor, not so long ago, looked more Liberal than Liberals.
NSW before Carr left was private property.
A truth exists here, while Labor rotted on the tree,NSW Liberals grew, it will take a record term of Conservative government here to remove them.
A greatly improved ALP comes in that time, better government too.
Abbott I fear, and believe, is dropping conservative policy's like wheat from a split bag.
In government he is bound to disappoint.
And bound too to be a one termer.
But if the Liberals have the people I think they have he will not lead by years end.
Both party's over value internal views and are blind to ours.

Work Choices I need to address this issue yet again.
Remember I am a life time trade Unionist.
And that I proudly was an official of our country's best union for the full period of work choices.
Devils advocate first, few will know why Howard hated Unions, he did, blindly.
Postal workers, in my view should have been imprisoned to a man for it, refused to deliver mail to our troops on active service.
Nothing else will do, left wing grubs leading blind fools and insult to workers groups, I never forgave them, nine tenth of union members never will.
Howard crafted a new union in his Ministerial office, grubby but I think most never cared.
BE AWARE workers 90% of them hate communists even socialists!
Howard needed to cripple the ALP election income, unlike self interested big business Labor would be easy meat with out it.

So work choices.
Some did do better on personal contract, no more than 5% and middle income workers.
I do not blame those who do not know, but think they do.
I have no need to lie, if I did I am worthless.
Kids 16 years old, first job out of school forced to give up penally rates sick leave holidays.
In a true light, as seen even by Abbott, work choices was cruel unjust and it ,not Labor lost Howard his seat.
The deliberate miss information, cover word for intentional lies, about growing strike action is a bit rude.
Agreements, masses of them, ran out last year and this.
It is at that time, no other unless related to safety, workers can strike.
NO OTHER TIME.
3 years cycle ending is the only reason .
Tell me, are your neighbors evil, is the bus driver a crook, has the postman the right to a living wage.
Are wage earners lessor?

Belly,
How about running a small business with about half a dozen employees for a while before you decide how much people should be paid.
Then, after the Government's hit you with all imaginable charges & fees a union bloke rolls up at your door & demands that you pay penalty rates as well.
Give us an update on how rich you are as a businessman & how you could easily afford to pay 16 year olds double time on weekends.
Why don't you forget about your union days of when you just demanded more & get in there & try to provide more. I'm sure you'd become pretty conservative in a very short time

"""
2012 a year that challenges the ALP
""

Hopefully it's the year they disappear under the rock they came from!

One is still allowed to dream aren't they? Or have they banned that too!?

I have often been seen as abrupt, angry,heated.
Blame my lack of formal education, its impacts on my posts construction.
I have zero understanding of grammar.
But yes, am a warrior, and stray at times.
Proud I try not to, am amused, extremely so, by the far, lost lefts TACTIC of telling me my views are heated heart bursting stuff.
Such Tactics signal their defeat, they do not have the ability to debate, are only a propagandas fixed on messages that sink in debate.
Look how ever at the last two posts.
Raw Mustard, can you for give me? you have assisted me build a view of you.
It seems you think you are hot stuff, that rather silly shell of a comment, always degrading the ALP are of worth.
Sorry I disagree, with it all, just maybe it is the best you can do?
Indy, well same as above, mate you in this thread inferred Witlam was leader of the conservatives!
I in fact employed 5 people plus myself, in a small business early in life.
Each got over award and by staying back 4 extra hours one night Friday of on full pay.
Facts do not dig holes and disappear every time one like you two post garbled unfounded insults.
In the end it is my fault, I ask too much of you both.
Rational, considered debate.
Indy, a last tip, the big fella was a Labor Prime Minister.

the big fella was a Labor Prime Minister. Don't worry I'll never forget Goaf Whitlam for ruining my plans.
Belly,
That's what I meant, he he did the most damage to this country hence being the worst leader..Also, to become the worst leader some pretty basic mentality supporters are needed.
So far as you having employed people successfully may well have been so in the days of reasonably sensible conservative led Government.

I learn from every post you ever do Individual.
Not trying to be sarcastic.
Just honest 1972 till 1975 was the time period you speak about.
I wounder how much further back you would go to find blame?
We all must understand,we do not have all the answers.
And surely, rational thought,can not let any one capable of thought think all wrong comes from one side.
I could, without much trouble,put in to print concerns about todays ALP.
In fact have, in every post here.
You? well you fail, your self, in every post.
C J Morgan, in debate with you, long ago, highlighted you seem unable to put meat on the bones of your complaints and statements.
You remind me,true, of car insurance claimers, blaming any one but the one who bought about the smash.
EG if he had not been there I would not have hit him.
I was distracted by a woman in another car, she made it happen.
Enjoy your post style, it keeps me grinning.

Belly,
as per your style you're evading truth with nonsense rhetoric. It wouldn't bother if there were only a few with your mentality/integrity. Unfortunately, with the conniving assistance of a couple of so-called independents your lot outnumbered those who care about this country.
Now look where we are ?

2011 was a year that saw me ask myself questions, based on my view of politics and the way I put them.
Individual played no small part in my beginning those thoughts.
And continues to play a roll.
Thoughts? would I be better hiding my true opinions?
Is it better to ignore posts that seem bottomless in laying claims I see as both unfounded and uninformed.
I have seen good posters no longer in habit this section, flee to articles, as I did once.
Am not unaware some may have migrated away from me.
I think this thread, and my post history, shows while I am ALP not blindly so, demandingly so yes.
Demanding accountability, improvement ,constantly.
Far more, many more, than individual , make claims about me as the one above.
I have no choice,I MUST BE ME! Indy that statement is so unfounded it questions your ability's.
My next post is on behalf of conservatives, it takes the place of all but ROberts failure to find any fault in the party so far from the one Sir Robert founded.

We will always have them, the mud throwers, those who get their in depth information from the papers the fish and chips came in.
Then those who like Indy hold a life time grudge about events that may or may not have been bought about by an ALP government nearly 40 years ago.
Others talk of communism and Socialism,a sign like a neon light that they know nothing.
Conservatives are not issued at birth with Halos.
Factionalism, branch stacking exist in equal numbers.
So too is solidarity, protecting your own, a blanket to deceive those who trust them.
Right now, like sea gulls feeding of a beach the crys about greens and Labor, my voice amung them, ignores the internal strife Liberals face.
The right, raced away from the ground Labor took, yes it did.
Right conservatives are a promise without a foundation.
Tea party has dropped out in America,it failed to sell other than to its committed followers.
Abbott is no Liberal, kept afloat by Gillards unpopularity.
But hung Parliament takes blame too.
Conservatives one day will re inhabit the ground they fled, That will make it hard for an unchanged ALP to compete.
But flogging the ALP while finding no reason to look in a mirror is no road to progress.

The way Labor is going, let alone 2012, I imagine that walking in a straight line challenges Labor.

Finding alternative ways to cope with rapid change in an
increasingly complex world is one of the most difficult
tasks of any government in our modern society. It requires
more flexible systems of decision-making. Many administrative
structures set up to cope with former problems are now
obsolete.

As I've stated in the past - condemnation does not achieve
anything contructive. Any one can do that. We should stop
playing the part of "victims," and blaming the current
government. We have to all emerge and claim our individuality.
Not in a blatant and arrogant way, but so as to be part of a
whole as a thinking individual rather than simply to inherit
the opinion of the group.

It means we should never hide behind a group. The onus would
be on ourselves to take the responsibility for our decisions.
It is perhaps in this ability to be responsible as individuals
that the strength and spirit of any society lies. We should
consider what we can do for our fellow man rather than what
we can do for ourselves. We have to stop being greedy -
how much is enough?

We have to recognise the vulnerability of our planet.
All efforts to support economic growth, feed more people and
mine more minerals requires very large amounts of energy.
Amounts that are doubling over the years. There's only so
much fossil fuel, only so much hundred-million-year-old
sunlight in storage. We're burning our capital. We're running
close to the end of the fossil fuel economy.

We need to elect governments that are capable of making the
right decisions for the nation. Some won't like the idea of
re-distributing material wealth, but it's an idea that comes
not from ideology but from the logic of ecology.
Seen in political form, conservation is not a plot by the
rich to keep the poor poor. On the contrary, it suggests the
rich are rich enough, and the poor must become better off
fo that they are not forced to degrade nature to simply feed
their children.

Belly,
Yes 2012 will be a challenging year for the ALP.

If they can get through the year without another major stuff up it will be a miracle. The NBN looms large for many stuff ups. Already a major cable replacement in Queensland and reports indicate very few take ups by households, so that is not looking to good. Then add on the cost blowouts. Where are we now $50 or $60 billion?

Then there is the illegal boat arrivals to contend with. The open door policy could easily result in more large scale drownings.

One wonders when we will feel the effects of the Carbon tax. What a stupid concept, especially in the face of increasing scepticism about AGW. We are pumping out more CO2 than ever before and the global temperature is not rising. Maybe the ALP picked the wrong horse to back in this race.

What else can go wrong? Plenty, with the incompetent government that is there now. Yes it will be challenging for them.

Interesting to see if they come up with more hair brained ideas to waste taxpayers money on and just what will be the ammount borrowed at the end of this term. A great legacy to leave our kids and grandkids.

Banjo [it is pointless asking Shadow Minister] do you truly think as you post.
Is there no good in Labor no bad in Liberal?
Are you aware propaganda is not related to truth.
That the facts of the NBN are far different that conservatives and the toilet wall press say?
First politics drove the NBN first, had it ran past my village, it never will, every home and farm would take it.
Second CONTRACTS, after current ones expire greater numbers will use the system.
Mate truth is even you, in ten years will try to forget you ever fell for the bull dust.
By years end, my mate Shadow minister gloats, waiting to tell me I got it wrong.
Abbott will be replaced Gillard too, I ask can anyone, who claims such understanding of Labors wrongs.
Shadow Minister I speak to you, not find a single concern with current conservative directions?
Lexi, you are quite right but do not fear truth buys more than lies.
The achievements of the Rudd/Gillard ALP have been good, under the hardest of conditions Gillard has got up true future changes we all should be proud of.
She however has flipped around like a fish on a hot plate first stopping Rudd then implementing his wish.
My constant needling my party is not betrayal,but from an understanding we, the party must change grow, and pass on to younger folk the understanding, standing still is no option.
My closest union mates ignore me, because I refuse to let my party die,demand change and returning the party to its true owners not faction/union heads.

Is there no good in Labor no bad in Liberal?
Belly,
No one's saying that. Again you're twisting statements gists. I can only speak for myself & that is that I have more than sufficient evidence that The ALP does nothing for Australia to move forward. In fact the ALP put the gear into reverse whereas the conservatives were moving forward even though it was only in first low gear. I feel for the many decent Australians who can not see a light at the end of the tunnel. Does it not scratch your conscience to see this country being so mistreated by those whom you display so much loyalty to ?

Dear Belly,

Give it up. There's no point in arguing with
people who only see the negative side of
things and are influenced by the media.

People who don't see any of the positive things
that the current government has done. You could
some of them but it wouldn't make any difference.

You're not going to convince people who
are comfortable in their own ideologies.
Nothing will change even when ignorance and vested
interests are confronted by positive outcomes.
As I told you once before - even if our PM was to
suddenly walk on water - the newspaper headlines the
next day would read - "PM can't swim."

Lexi,
Only someone with a sheltered life can make such statements. Do you ever think of others ?
Does it not bother you what's happening to Australia ? Or are you so devoid of foresight ?

Belly'
There is truely no good in the present Labor government. I cannot think of any one good thing that has occurred in the past 4 years.

I can see plenty wrong with the LIBs, dont worry, and the continuing presence of Turnbull is one of them. But as I want to get rid of the present government, now is not the time to voice shortcomings of the Libs. You started this thread to talk about the ALP so any talk about the Libs is 'off topic'

Australia certainly does not deserve the incompedent fools we presently have in government. I have an astounding list of about 30 major stuff ups in the past 4 years. These have cost up billions of dollars that could have been utilized to benefit the country. All wasted.

Must be hard for you to continue to support Labor with the idiots there now doing their best to wreck the country, through sheer stupidity.

Labor needs a lot of new blood and that may happen after the next election. An election I await with big expectations. I will re-evaluate Labor after 2013.

Banjo,

There is no point in talking to rusted on Labor supporters, who will defend Labor's idiot policies such as the NBN and carbon tax in spite of all the evidence, and then accuse the media of bias for not ignoring Labor stuff ups and hypocrisy. They are so stuck in their political dogma that they cannot see the wood for the trees.

Lexi I understand.
But while I am no intellectual giant.
My detractors make me look like one here.
Indy has as much understanding as, well leave that.
Poor Shadow Minister seems in mid life crisis.
Let my detractors, and independent observers judge me.
In a thread, one of tens I started, that makes demands of my party/finds faults with it.
SM claims I am rusted on Labor!
Banjo, mate, gee you can do better than that, ALP 100% WRONG! madness mate.
Lexi, here is a sad truth, some comments come from deep deep failure to understand.
Some come from, well far too many, come from a belief my team or nothing.
A special form of intellectual bigotry.
A challenge to knowledge and self improvement.
Look first to truth, hide no fault in your team.
No improvement ever came from sweeping truth under the carpet.

Belly,
Please enlighten us. Show us a list of good things this present govenment, including Rudds, has done. If you want to promote Labor now is the time to start. Instead of continuing to bag Abbott start promoting the positive side of Labor.

SM,
The only reason I get involved, and I will do more and more as we get closer to the next election, is because there are many that read OLO but do not post. These people discuss the topics with their friends and so on.

I have said many times that I have little respect for either of the major parties, but this is decidedly the worst government we have had to endure and I will do my bit to see it defeated. Even Belly bags the present PM and refers to some ALP members by uncouth names, indicating that he has no faith in their ability or integrity.

It will do little good to sit back and say they will go next election. That has to be worked for.

This govt; is doing exceptionally well in the hung parliament situation, and there is no reason for another hung parliament, next time around.

579,
I like your concept of 'exceptionally well' Keep that up you are doing really good and demonstrating the solid support that the polls show people have for the present government.

One correction. There is no hung parliament. They had no problem getting the carbon tax through, so legislation is being passed. It is just that their coalition partners are calling the tune on other issues. Pity that these issues are ones Australians think are important.

Banjo that is not a bad comment from you being a free radical. Certainly makes the situation hard when the opposition has not contributed to any legislation what so ever, all you hear is no or crap. The opposition does not seem to have a voice. It is normal that polls go against the incumbent, when an election is so far away. The Libs seem to have a problem with Malaysia, for no other reason that it will work. Julia has been exceptionally strong, and will come to the fore when it is needed.

Julia has been exceptionally strong,
579,
That our PM is, no matter how right or wrong. To be wrong you don't have to be bad. You just need to lack foresight but keep telling everyone you have it.
I agree that the present hung Parliament is a dog so to speck but that is exactly the point of all my comments. The one reason we have this hung Parliament is because of people who support incompetence no matter what. If those supporters had one ounce of integrity & sit back & think "hey, this mob's running our country into the ground I'd better don't support what they're doing' then you wouldn't have a hung Parliament. It's you, the supporter of incompetence who has the direction of the country in their hands. No-one can do a decent job with a hung Parliament. Julia Gillard is not to blame for this, you , ALP supporters are the cause. Because you supporters want the cake & eat it too the ALP hierarchy is unable to please you except by denying the workers & giving to the academic bureaucrat hangers on.

579,
Yeah, keep it going old son, you are doing great.

Showing the intelectual capacity of those supporting the present government.

Now Belly has it right. Has no time for the PM and calls some other ALP members maggots and grubs. I suggest he may be a bit older and wiser, you should take note.

Everyone is allowed their opinion, Belly is in a position of internal information, politics is grubby, on all sides. In the face of adversity this lady is doing very very well. Running the country into the ground, what does that mean, if you don't agree so be it, i don't think the country will be run into the ground. The NBN is a piece of infrastructure much needed, incentive to get of oil and coal, with carbon tax, mining tax, they are all glad they now which way to plan ahead. The only ones whining about such things is the ones it doesn't apply to.

579,
you obviously don't have to perform for getting paid.

Indy please take your time,I am writing slowly to assist you.
Rather than get paid I get dumped, for daring to insist unions and ALP give control back to members.
Banjo
Right saying sorry
wrong dumping Rudd, not thinking they should say why.
Wrong Gillard she has no right to be other than a minister
right GFC very right.
Right ending work choices
Right flood levee
right pension raises
right plans for education reforms
right tax on coal and mining.
right planned safety net income for disabled.
Wrong childlike cash for clunkers it never went fuel watch grocery watch.
RIGHT carbon tax.
right getting this and more while confronted by the worst conservative team in our country's history.

Belly,
most of these policies were in place before. What is new is the pink batt fiasco, the un-economic stimulus, the live export tragedy, the disintegration of Law & Order, every rate you can think of is going through the roof, hospitals are mismanaged with impunity, Indigenous affairs have derailed, jobs are going overseas at an alarming rate etc etc. Time to bring the gravy train to a stop & put in a (slightly) more responsible gang calling themselves Government.
That last Parliamentarian pay rise should be removed. No parliamentarian should get the money they do as long as unemployment is above 1percent.

I am in a Quandary.
How do I reply to such an ill informed comment.
Should I?
Or should I slip away and not answer.
Debate/free speech/conversation brings this problem to the surface often.
Is it so wrong to be honest.
Or do we put the camouflage net of civility over our heads and ignore a truth?
Honesty is worth my social gaff,
Indy mate, I like you, have no idea how you came to that conclusion.
And find no value in your views, that small part I am able to understand.

Belly,
There is a couple I would agree with.

'Right saying sorry'. Did not achieve anything

'right GFC very right'.Surely you don't think buying US and chinese pink bats and burning about 100 homes and 4 people dieing was good. Or school halls fiasco. Or giving cash to people to waste.

'Right ending work choices'. Yes, that was ill considered move by previous government.

'Right flood levee' Unneccessary if monies not wasted on pink bats and school halls.

'right pension raises' Rises normal for government

'right plans for education reforms' What reforms? School halls?

'right tax on coal and mining' They already pay royalties on ewhat they extract. Just seen as cash cow because they are doing well at moment.

'right planned safety net income for disabled' The idea was right but could have been implemented now if money not wasted on other things, priorities wrong. Why should they have to wait 2 years

'Wrong childlike cash for clunkers it never went fuel watch grocery watch' Surely not only stuff ups you can find?

'RIGHT carbon tax' Only money raising on false pretences. Achieves nothing and badly affects our economy.

'right getting this and more while confronted by the worst conservative team in our country's history' I cannot agree, the polls show otherwise and will judge their performance after next election, when in government.

Am a bit surprized you can come up with these.

Dear Belly,

There are certain people on this forum that I
really don't enjoy interacting with and prefer
not to do so. Not because they're
opinion disagrees with mine, but because their
state of debate and personal courtesy is fairly poor
(at times it's downright awful) and this climate puts
me off totally. Sometimes I am tempted to fight fire
with fire which again escalates poor manners. I often
wonder if these people would behave in this way if they
were face to face with the posters that they are debating.

Anyway, don't take things to heart. The next election
is in a few years time - and we'll see what happens
in the meantime. Positive ourcomes may silence a few of
the current critics. What really gets to me though is
that the biggest critics don't see any of the
positive outcomes that are being achieved and all they
seem to be capable of is negativity - the same as the
Opposition - with nothing positive on offer.
Perhaps that's the trend of the "old school," those
comfortable in their set idealogies - that nothing will
ever change their point of view.

you must admit that the carbon tax has worked. With heaps of rain, some places not receiving much summer at all we must give credit to such as a wise Government who has been able to cool the climate.

Lexi, I need to be honest, I know at times, I too fit that description.
I can get rude, very much so, I suffer fools no better than most honest people.
Australians always, have disliked Authority figures.
Politicians always.
Yet too, fall for the silliest of them.
Former Leader of QLD Joe was barely lucid, few knew what he was talking about, including him self.
Yet Possums gathered under his feet, quite convinced he was saying some thing they wanted to hear, he never was.
This section of OLO sees good posters leave, and moths gather around our light who are here looking for other than considered thought.
I still go to my living in a community thought.
When rumors start,no need for them to be true, crowds form to add to the run away story.
This hung Parliament, actions of every party , are doing great harm to us all.
This much is true, Labor may not have looked much good at times, made mistakes, been hijacked by factions, all true in my view.
But ANY FOCUS, on the Conservatives must result in this view.
No policy of worth not honesty and bound to have a B Double truck load of non core promises when elected.
Lexi Labor and Conservative history is about to be repeated.
Labor poorly led, is to fall ,because currently, personal matters are more important to a few than my party.
Even electoral defeat so to insure leadership dreams are to be filled.
Conservatives, if lead by NEGATIVE MAN, are headed once more for an electorate unhappy with promises not kept from a team not yet ready to rule.

Belly,
Again you're making statements of which you have no proof. I have proof that under Joh Queensland was a growing, improving Queensland. It was that academic ignoramus Goss & his successors who with the help of non-thinkers got in & made it what it is now, a haven for bureaucrats but unaffordable for decent people. You know those who you claim you did so much for as one of those union blokes who eventually out priced everything so much that even Tomato Sauce makers left to go across the Tasman where Joh came from.

Belly,
I must tell you. I saw a news item tonight that causes me to praises the government.

The Atorney General said, about those idiots that illegally boarded the Japanese ship off WA, There are consequences when people take the laws into their own hands. They only have themselves to blame. That may not be exactly what she said but near enough. Isn't that great, and commendable.

She or K Rudd should not waste much time on any diplomatic efforts in this case.

Hope the Japs take them back to Japan when their time is due to go back and the idiots are tried with hyjacking or piracy. Would be ironic if they are fed only rice and whale meat. Pity we may give them legal aid and they probably will still receive social welfare while away overseas. I'm a bit sour about that.

The longer the fools are out of Australia the better off we all are.

Of course, Labors coalition partners hailed them as heros.

I have put a thread for consideration up on that subject Banjo, and agree.
So, Gillard Labor are in control, its them making choices about the future of food factory's.
If you are unable to find some thing off substance to target Labor?
Time you kicked against the wall and swam out of the shallow end to gain insight in to events.
Based on what you provide you information? about the brown paper bag man, the flying peanut, is not linked to understanding.
How many who still support him, know about that ten million dollar loan, interest free? to his son?
Had Labor been involved we would know much more.
However you do Labor a service.
Labor must confront this truth, it faces folk like your self who vote on every uninformed half truth no matter what direction truth takes.

Belly,
Dissappointed this morning. Those fools are to be released, but don;t know when? Not our governments fault, this time its the Japs who dropped the ball. Should make an example of them.

You speak in riddles, similar to OUG. If you have knowledge about someone making a $10 million loan to his son why not disclose it? I certainly do not mind. It was not long ago that all states and the Feds were under Labor governments, so they were in position to release it. Then we have media such as the Age and smh and ABC who you would approve of. Then you could also approach crikey or new Matilda or even Green Left Weekly. All of the above dearly love to print anything that puts Labor on the high moral ground. There are plenty of Labor loving commentators, such as Day and Calton who would do the job. Maybe they do not want to expose too many skeletons from the cupboard. Both major parties have things they prefer kept quiet.

Are you suggesting that Labor is above muck raking? History would not support that concept.

Belly,
Another major challenge for the ALP this year is the leadership. Do they dump Gillard and replace her with, whom? They dumped Rudd who was polling better at the time than Gillard is now, but they hoped Gillard would pick up the 'womens vote' which did not quite work out. Rudd probably is the only one who has enough ego to think he can save a sinking ship.

I recall, in NSW, they made Kristine Kennelly captain of a sinking ship in the hope she would pick up some 'womens votes'. I have always felt sorry for her, it was not a fair go.

No Banjo I speak in no riddles.
That ten million dollar interest free loan is no secrete.
A Japanese firm, involved in doing business with Joe's QLD and the white shoe brigade lent it.
To Joe's son at a time he needed it.

I ASK this, as my charge is well known to be the truth,and could have been one of dozens like it.
As no side of politics is better or worse in such actions? are you content to only hight LABORS wrongs.
Is dishonesty ok for conservatives.
If Gillard got that loan would it be ok?
Try Indy not to answer it is way over your head/understanding
Fact is honesty is a duty.

Sorry Belly, I thought you were refering to something far more recent.

Yeah I remember some references to the 'white shoe brigade'but nothing came of it and we have had many years of labor government in Qld, so I guess if there is any political gain there it would have been done by now.

Talking of Qld, On another forum there is talk of the Qld floods just 12 months ago. Interesting info coming out about the Qld Beattie government and the Sooley city council, in Brisbane, and their involvement with allowing housing subdivision on the flood plains. Info that never came out in the so called 'inquiry'. Will keep an eye on that one. Looks as though it could be labeled another Labor stuff up, if not worse. Many up there are pretty angry today.

No I am not going to comment on an Lib shortcomings at this stage as I want to be rid of the worst government we have ever had. Any mob, except the Greens, could not be worse than the present lot.

One account of what I assume Belly is talking about is at http://netk.net.au/Whitton/Hillbilly25.asp

There were a variety of other allegations suggesting that cash may have been paid by businesses wanting to get government contracts.

Much stronger claims floated around regarding one senior minister and the payments of bribes to get things done. Whilst I've got some strong views on that I doubt that they could be substantiated in court by surviving family members so I'll leave it at that.

In regard to some others in that government at best there were some massive conflicts of interest which should not have occurred, at worst outright corruption. The government also included some who wanted better, how many government initiated inquiries since have had terms of reference that allowed investigation of the same government?

It was a government that for the most part did seem to try and do good for Queensland, that initiated a lot of work that's stood the test of time.

We should learn from the strengths and failings of The Bjelki-Peterson government, not minimise the failings of current governments because of that governments failings.

R0bert

RObert/Banjo this much is true, every party in my view, that ever existed has had its criminals mine is no exception.
Look, will not go too deep but I by holding my views, not bending, am under fire and my lifetime of service/love of both Labor and Union is under fire.
Because simple as it is, no window dressing, I think both exist ONLY to serve.
And yes, SOLIDARITY is a lie, a word used like a blanket to cover true filth.
Conservatives may not use that word but act no differently.
Much of the anti Labor stuff, as it was in the 70,s is unfounded.
Much is born, bred and fostered in the actions of idiots.
I a trade unionist, am expected to hide under my bed,at the very thought, of questioning the betrayer of rank and file union members in the HSU.
I will not!
Such as he/them are rank and vile!
Unions need only this to prosper,people who with all their heart serve because of the reason not the power such service gives.
My party too.
Some real true lost loonies inhabit both sides,because factions are demanding seats not quality Representatives.
I tender the foolish leader of Labors left faction in the house and conservatives silly house wife and her perfume for Australia thoughts.
Accountability and constant improvement are not currency used enough in Australian Politics.
Ejection seats should be installed in Canberra.
Gillard would look good in one Abbott sitting in her lap.

Talking about challenges for the ALP in 2012 7 reference to Joh about a 10 mill loan to his son. Did Young master Petersen have to pay this loan back & did he do so ?
On the other hand a Qld Health bureaucrat recently just took 16 mill without anyone noticing before it was too late. Question here is did Queensland get Joh's 10 mill back & will Queensland get the 16 mill back ? Quite a challenge I'd say.

How can I answer you Indy without insulting you?
How much thought did you put in to that or any one post you ever contributed.
You have no difficulty remembering the sins of a government in the years 1972 to 1975.
But needed me to remind you about this well known event.
A loan was given, presumed to be paid back.
And a crime, by both the thief,and those overlooking him, and even a glance, as you gallop past on a bolting horse, at your states papers.
Will tell you he has not yet been convicted, and property is to be sold to recover some.
FEEBLE pointless and school yard like, is how your post looks.
Labors challenge is understanding it will not be true believers who challenge them.
It will be unfounded thoughts like yours, fed by our increasing failure to tell our story.
To tell some our story we would need to hire the Muffets, as educators.

Belly it's my understanding that the loan came from third parties, not Australian taxpayers. What's I've read on it suggests that it wasn't one of those no interest, never to be repaid loans, rather a loan with better conditions than most of us might get. Not sure if there was anything about that which was illegal, but a conflict of interest.

Interesting to see your mate Bob Brown (joking) complaining about Julia breaking promises (not meeting him regularly) in the media this morning. Seems to me that he recently voted for a piece of legislation which was a clear break of promise to the voters by Julia with a strong chance that he put pressure on her to break that promise. A bit rich of him to be crying foul over a broken promise to him when a promise to the voters seemed to be so easily discarded.

R0bert

Yes aware it was a private loan, at that time still a lefty I researched the whole thing.
As I age some memory's fade, until now did not remember it was not to be repaid.
I do however know it was badly needed at that time.
Legal costs and other things had a big impact on the whole family.
I find it insulting, that in such matters, on both sides, we will be long in our graves before the whole story emerges.
For that reason will till death, say SOLIDARITY is a swear word used to blind us to truth.
Glad you are joking about the gentle man, your point is hurtful.
But yes he is as lost as it is possible to be.

Just weeks away from the opening of Parliament here are my thoughts on this year for Labor.
We must and will show the truth youthful people of great value we have in Parliament.
We will reform, it will be bruising but must happen.
Gillard can not come back, not totally not win an election.
Once mid count in an election night Dr Jim Cains congratulated Australian voters on their maturity.
Within an hour in to the count he was in fear as the vote swung .
Maturity is not universal, not all have any of it.
To think Gillard can bounce back is to insult the thoughts of Australian voters.
Never do that, it is not a thimble and pea game.
So she will/must go.
Unpopular as it makes me, I stand by the things I love most, my union and my party.
NSW if it did not warn us *NEVER AGAIN*, tolled boths death knell.
Factional heads are of worth only if the faction/party is served not themselves.
Both loved groups must return to the owners control not one.
We will until Abbott is replaced gain in the polls.
But he will go.
Our future? unless we take head on the greens is limited to life time lease maybe ownership off the opposition benches.
Yet I am full of hope and so is my party.
2012? bring it on!

NSW never again.

Well there is Queensland and WA.

Thanks Shadow Minister I needed that.
Thought we had lost you.
No one can match you, the quick needle,sharp jab.
Indy trys,but bowls his bouncers in the wrong direction.
WA? be a very long time before we get back in office, maybe you meant your team?
They may well go bad but not just yet.
SA got rid of the fool not sure about the new bloke.
Still good year ahead,still have my list of forecasts?

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/why-rudds-return-is-labors-only-chance-of-survival-20120123-1qdym.html
This link is the whole truth of Labors challenge this year last year any year.
While Shorten is my pick for PM I understand Rudd would more instantly restart Labor.
I will never understand
Neither will most in my party.
Why we never received an answer, why did they unseat Rudd? Why? is Gillard leading us, even with the lowest polling in my memory.
Is the Party, my party, the private property of faction leaders?
No Charlie Olivers here,none so brilliant they need not answer such questions.
Return Rudd now, give Shorten time to grow but give my party's rank and file answers and hope.

Belly,

This is another perspective on the year ahead.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/short-sighted-pm-will-walk-into-brick-wall/story-e6frezz0-1226251678092

Did you read my link SM? have you read just this thread, noted my taking the slicing knife to my party?
Must be at least ten such threads I started doing that do you agree.
Lets see about 35? maybe another zero on that, threads that saw me finding fault with my party.
My challenges, you know the ones,to you and some lessor supporters of conservatives.
No offense, the lessor is only in skill, you are better by far, than any others.
Sydney toilet paper press?
It is only a flea trying to tip an Elephant over.
But recently, 3 months ago? stopped forever buying or reading the Murdock/tea Party press.
No thoughtful person, interested in other than control by self interested press Barons, scripting news as Gobbles like propaganda, should ever support them, readers numbers fuel advertisers even online.
You can do better than quote the comic book media.
OH see the ex union head, in his actions getting the headlines has shown not only is his honesty questionable, to some not me he is a thief, but he has no brains as well.
See did not hurt me at all, try it truth is refreshing and after all the only way to go.

Belly,

I read the link far before you posted it. KRudd was axed for a reason, which is easily forgotten now, especially since the Coalition has been boosting him in comparison to Juliar, he gets a boost from a rose tinted selective amnesia. The reality is that if KRudd were re instated, there would probably be a short boost in the polls for a few weeks until the coalition dragged up all the stuff ups he was responsible for, and the Labor caucus hates his guts.

Shorten might stand a chance, as his lack of experience also gives him a la lack of baggage. For this reason he is being groomed with a cabinet position. I believe that when Juliar is knifed, Shorten will take over.

Fair enough, I disagree with your view of Rudd, and always knew Shorten has the right stuff, he always did.
He will, one day become PM and be very well liked.
I see or saw no reason to dump Rudd, other than Gillard and a few giving him bad advice, even less reason she was picked to lead
BUT you and I half Australian voters are fixed and our votes can not be won or lost.
Rudd can win the in betweens, they base their vote on liking, looks, blue eyes blond hair gets them.
Shorten has it all, but not yet known by the passer by voters.
He may have to wait.
If Rudd moves, maybe the reason he has not, a big section will put Shorten up, to stop him.
Turnbull, taking the leadership this year,will make Labors job impossible, unless they change first.

"Shorten has the right stuff, he always did. He will, one day become PM and be very well liked."

You said the same about Gillard just more than a year ago.

Shorten might have a future, but not until he has cast aside the baggage of incompetence such as Gillard, Emmerson, Bowen etc. As yet he is untested, and probably needs to wait until after a few coalition incumbencies while the electorate forgets about the train smash of the last 4 years.

First post after Rudd I said I would never trust Gillard.
And that she would go as Rudd did knife in her back.
I quite wrongly, never haveing trusted or liked her, said she would govern well, got it it wrong.
My post history concerning her was quite wrong too.
I CONSTANTLY and wrongly said my party would NEVER elect this Lefty as leader.
She, Simon Crean, Mr China pays my fares, are leftovers from Latham.
Rubbish collector comes soon this tip is free.
It will take much more than Bile to defeat Bill Shorten.

Julie Gillard had a hard day today,do not get me wrong, I do not like her still.
But at the hands of the people only Labor helps most often, Australian Aboriginals, in support of what more than often is just a site for drunken behavior.
The Aboriginal tent Embassy, rioters forced her to be afraid.
I am honestly ashamed, of especially those involved, haveing marred this day and set back their own cause.
But even more, take note ALP! far too many Australians, including my in box now, from with in the UNION/LABOR movements think it was great funny and well deserved.
WHEN
ARE you blokes going to wake up?

One more time.
Shadow Minister it is you I talk to.
Haveing time and again found our selves in conflict.
And been told by you, endless times, I am a Labor tragic.
I again, yes maybe made my century in this challenge, close to the one hundredth time.
CHALLENGE you.
To tell us of your sides people and acts that concern you.
Are you content with your party's policy's, is it not true they best resemble unset jelly wobbling and even falling from the dish.
I can not, ever, under any circumstances, think you would find reason.
To claim Gillard was right.
Again Abbott did nothing wrong, he may have thought about it better.
But the tent Embassy is set up as drunken bush camp, untidy uncouth and it should now be bulldozed but help could be given to more balanced people to open one up in another area.
In your court mate, are you honest enough, informed enough to talk of real fears lifetime followers of your team currently have?

Belly,

Since Nov 2007 can you point to a single policy implementation by the coalition that has gone wrong, or right? A single broken promise?

The answer is NO. Mainly because being in opposition means that one has neither the power to implement policy nor the access to the public servants to fully research and develop new policies. No Labor opposition ever submitted fully developed policies either, and the ones that Abbott submitted prior to the last election with respect to welfare, return to work, and mental health, Labor simply copies and presented as their own.

The main purpose of the opposition is to point out the stuff ups of the incumbents, and KRudd, Juliar, etc have provided a bounty of ammunition.

My concerns with the coalition is that after 3+ years of the fair work act, they are too timid to tackle some of the more obvious flaws.

bellicose quote..""Again Abbott did nothing wrong,
he may have thought about it better.""

wow...when attacking a worse threat
he defends the pervese threat maker
[who should know better][and who in the previous govt
helped thugs try to burn out...and bulldoze away...
a right they couldnt buy-off

[like they bought up..the union movement...
and then the party..and thus the party loyalists]

but heck they cant se the perversion of alp adgenda
arrroting back the media sin spin

""the tent Embassy is set up..as drunken bush camp"'

lol...like the eurika stockaide
was built..by tax avoiders?

and the alp...by some greedy lazy shearers
getting drunk under a tiny gum tree[next to the pub]

""untidy""

filthy sheearer
filthy miners
filthy ab=orogonal first people
how dare they be poor...and oppressed

""uncouth""

i have allways noted
how clean the talk..of union leaders

and shearing sheds dont allow groan men to cuss
even if a ram kicks them in the nutts

and miners never swear
not in the nany state mate
[heck aint twop fisted..two facism cool?

"""is..and it should now be bulldozed""

it was in the 70's...mate but returned in the nighties
[and the fire free food soberity camp...has survived and thrived ever since[you never been there eh ol mate

not even on a junket
do you judge building work sites as hrad?

""but help could be given
to more balanced people"'

oh like ya ex unionist elder
or other cocconuts[white inside]

""to open one up
in another area.""

yep
let move the eurika stackaide mate
pretent it never happend...put up some work for the dole statue[in some back block off site]

or heck lets put a road
over that tree in balcaldrin

put up a tourist sign

lol
mate...?

think

Are you two fellas related?
Comforting feeling to know I at least can see good and bad in both sides.
And too that finding fault should be a well used tool insuring constant improvement.
OUG you get away with quite a bit in your strange posting style but remember, you are not a God.
You too must understand other views exist than your own
Shadow Minister thanks.
Your reply is in my mind clearly a white flag.

bell/quote.."" but remember,
you are not a God.""

no mate
im under god

god is the high mark..[love grace merrcy love etc]
that i can never hope to attain

I KNOW IM NOT PERFECT
mate your opinion is just as valid as anyone else
but so too is EVERYONE else's opinions

heck mate if i was god
i woyuld smite the egsact spot
of the stockaide..just like sod-em..and ignora ya

[screaming ...'EURIKA"]
as i went on to that other place
in the bah-cauldrin...and smite that place where once stood a tree

a tree i have postmarked
dated signed sealed..leaves from

""You too must understand""

belly..under...means under right
you are in good standing..[do you know what legal standing is?]

now when you join..underr and standing
you have lower standing[and yes i deney under/standing]

yet you enjoy under-standing
and i will resist ever understanding why

underlol standing..""other views exist than your own""

mate
i recognise your vieuw
i know your comming from a hard place
but mate carrying the shitcan..if thats as low as you were forced to go

lol
somewish to have it half as good
dont claim you dont know
that i know

and will not resist telling it so
[i know its only wurds]

even wurds like thus

""Shadow Minister thanks...
Your reply..is in my mind..clearly a white flag.""

well mate
YOU RAISED IT

well played
shadow...shows..it is at it is

as was wrote
as i do note
even if only..by rote...no need to re-quote

bell/quote.."" but remember,
you are not a God.""

no mate
im under god

god is the high mark..[love grace merrcy love etc]
that i can never hope to attain

I KNOW IM NOT PERFECT
mate your opinion is just as valid as anyone else
but so too is EVERYONE else's opinions

heck mate if i was god
i woyuld smite the egsact spot
of the stockaide..just like sod-em..and ignora ya

[screaming ...'EURIKA"]
as i went on to that other place
in the bah-cauldrin...and smite that place where once stood a tree

a tree i have postmarked
dated signed sealed..leaves from

""You too must understand""

belly..under...means under right
you are in good standing..[do you know what legal standing is?]

now when you join..underr and standing
you have lower standing[and yes i deney under/standing]

yet you enjoy under-standing
and i will resist ever understanding why

underlol standing..""other views exist than your own""

mate
i recognise your vieuw
i know your comming from a hard place
but mate carrying the shitcan..if thats as low as you were forced to go

lol
somewish to have it half as good
dont claim you dont know
that i know

and will not resist telling it so
[i know its only wurds]

even wurds like thus

""Shadow Minister thanks...
Your reply..is in my mind..clearly a white flag.""

well mate
YOU RAISED IT

well played
shadow...shows..it is..as it is

as was wrote
as i do note
even if only..by rote...no need/to re-quote

the white flag..you denote

Not sure how you some times get the one post twice in a thread.
SM will be unimpressed with me even if I praise him.
I am however content, truth remains true no matter the depth it is buried.
And know OUG, I too am content 12 months after Labor is removed Conservatives will wallow in the polls

the double posting
is cause the net acces disconects trying to post
[the comment posted page,..just dosnt appear...and i cant check to see if its posted

and i gota mopve on to the next topic
so i save it and all sorts of excuses

anyhow as soon as i notice[twice in the last month]
i ask for it to be deleted...[often i might have corrected sloppy typing..so computer read..as it a a new post]

notyhing mystical
just bad web acces
at bad times..

its a waste of a post
so next i run up against the post limits

really it is so symbolical
of how govt is going now

policy on the run
mention toney in every chance

itas all tonies fault
just like kim beasilly..never got into power
cause in his mindset..he was allready running it all

the poor self deluded war monger

kim beastly...now there is
a blast..from the past

worst alp leader?
might be good policy..to name names
at least reveal the party is seeing the joke

anyhow cheers ol mate
thanks for asking

it annoy's me more..

but heck we're all huh?man