The "Pacific Solution" succeeded in the intimidation of asylum-seekers in boats by naval force. This was wrong and has rightly been ceased.

The fact that naval intimidation worked, saving Australia from having to process refugees anywhere (offshore or onshore) for several years, is not a reason to endorse its reimplementation. The Australian Navy's mission was compromised and Australia failed in its humanitarian responsibility towards others.

The "ends justifies the means" attitude that intimidation entails, as well as the complete lack of compassion towards our fellow man spouted by some here is sickening to me also, bonmot.

The Malaysian Solution ensures asylum seekers are cared for under Australian scrutiny by the Malaysian Gov't that has stated its good intentions in relation to its part of the arrangement. Those at the end of the queue will be propelled ahead of those who seek to jump ahead in a 5 for 1 swap. It will work and should be given a go.

Lexie, as much as I respect your attempts to succeed in getting SM et al to acknowledge any point of fact, it is time to understand there are only three ways on the table to stop the dangerous boat journeys. These are:

1) Reinstate the Pacific Solution, not just processing in Nauru but its only actual working part, intimidation by the Australain Navy.

2) The Malaysian Solution.

3) Provide safe transport to anyone who wants to come and claim asylum and be processed here.

(cont'd)

(cont'd)

I doubt we have the capacity to handle the avalanche of the third path, and nor would Australians support it, hence it is not viable.

We are left with one of the first two solutions, and that's what this discussion is about in my view. Let's think of our nation and people who are dying while we have open borders.

It doesn't help the discussion when some, who must know they are doing so, spout lies and half-truths to support spurious assertions and refuse attention to any evidence that does not support their views. Such people should get a blog, not be a part of a forum that needs balanced thinkers over blind political adherence.

I wish to aknowledge, as I was misrepresented on another thread, that the Pacific Solution worked. My argument is that just because it did does not make it the right path for our nation going forward. We are a better nation than that.

Who is to blame? Our Australian bleeding hearts are to blame.
Unable to think things through, overwhelmed with emotion and lacking
in reasoning skills, unable to understand the law of unintended
consequences, they will blame everyone else but themselves.
Our political leaders will do what they normally do, kick each other
in the political shins to try and score a point.

But our bleeding hearts are the reason why we offer first prize of a cushy
lifestyle, to anyone who can sail across the water and tell a good
enough story that is hard to disprove. With that kind of carrot
dangling, people will respond, what do you expect? No such first
prize and then there would not be a problem.

There are solutions staring us in the face, which need tackling but
need a little err backbone and intelligence.

Take all refugees from refugee camps around the world. They would not
be there, if they were not refugees. Finally insist that the 1951
Convention is brought up to 2011 standards and stop imagining that the
world of 1951 still exists. Close the loopholes.

All this won't happen whilst our bleeding hearts are shrieking away.
Sorry, but the lives of anyone drowning to win first prize,
will continue to rest on their shoulders, whilst they insist that
we offer a boat race as a 1951 solution.

Hang your heads in shame, bleeding hearts. All bleeding and no
thinking, is not going to do it for you. Sad but true.

Shadow Minister.

If there is any guilt to be laid it's against those who would seek to make political capital from the suffering of others.

Whether it's Howard's initial brave statesman-like action in sending SAS troops against women and children in a leaky boat to garner votes, or your own opportunistic response.

No compassion for the victims - just a handy chance to score a political point.

The three great pillars of Liberal philosophy have always been Fear, Greed and Selfishness and this is another demonstration of it at work.

Even Abbott concedes that the Pacific (so-called) Solution will no longer work and cannot be resurrected. The truth is that they have no solution to offer themselves and get more capital by stopping any alternative.

The boat would have sunk regardless of whether it was en-route to the Mainland or to any other port or if it was towed back into Indonesian waters by the Navy (as per the Pacific Solution). It also wasn't quite the same as the unresolved Siev-X matter was it?

You don't need UN conventions to know right from wrong, Yabby.

Our nation turning boats back out to sea with the implied self-justification that one must be 'cruel to be kind' is not something I can quietly live with. Only the Pacific Solution involves turning boats back, hence I oppose it. If that makes me a bleeding heart by your definition, Yabby, I am guilty.

I'd be interested in hearing from supporters of the Greens rather than more from those roped to the mast of HMAS Abbott's Endeavour. What would the Greens do to dissuade tragic boat journeys given their rejection of both the Pacific and Malaysian Solutions?

BM,

The high court decision did not make the pacific solution completely defunct. The decision covers what can be done with people once they land on Australian soil. If people were intercepted at sea and directly transferred to Nauru, then the high court decision would have no effect.

Similarly, TPVs have not been excluded. Sending children on a boat is a great way to get the rest of the family a visa which is why there are so many children on these boats. A TPV stops this.

LF

"The Malaysian Solution ensures asylum seekers are cared for under Australian scrutiny by the Malaysian Gov't that has stated its good intentions in relation to its part of the arrangement. Those at the end of the queue will be propelled ahead of those who seek to jump ahead in a 5 for 1 swap. It will work and should be given a go."

That's a lie and you know it. The people are released into the community with no support other than access to UN doctors and schools, and a piece of paper saying they are permitted to live and work there. There is no income or protection guarantee. This difference to the pacific solution was made very clear in the high court decision.

Wobbles:

"If there is any guilt to be laid it's against those who would seek to make political capital from the suffering of others." Nope, the fuzzy bleeding heart labor left and greens are responsible for the idiotic onshore processing that has left a now estimated 600 people dead at sea in the last 3 years.

Deterrents are there for a reason. If you ride a motorcycle without a helmet, you can be fined or jailed for repeat offences, even if you can't hurt anyone else because the state has a responsibility to stop dangerous behaviour. Labor has completely failed to do this and is responsible through negligence.