http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15jiCBrg-I0 The Vatican now want to set of a global authority and World Bank to oversee the economic excesses of our ruling class.Isn't this centralised system of private banking cartels is what caused the problem in the first place?

They have made no mention of the Glass Steagall Act being activated to help clean up this mess.

What role has a so called religious group have in initiating financial reform? Are they more conecerned about their own power bases than bring in new change?

Nature has strength in diversity and nations have strength in sovereignity with diversity.An un-electable Gobal Banking authority will be our worst nightmare.We almost have that right now.

Jesus drove the money changers from the temple with a whip.The Vatican it seems,wants to get into bed with them.

ok the vaqtican is one of the 1%
but looby them is a waste of time
they got no real power..[either in this world or the next]

exscept maybe via the vatican bank
and their shareholdings of wealth

i feel we would be better placed to 'occupy'..the orifices of the 'crown'...or the gg..[the 'heads'..where bad law gets made 'good']

occupy parlements..high courts
tax orifices..mining multinationals

with web cams and web acces

I think it would an excellent and perfectly fair option to extend 'occupation' to holding a "world secularist day" in Vatican City, where non-religious people get to gatecrash the Vatican's backyard, harass the people that live there, clog up the infrastructure and make the host foot the bill, and if necessary clear their space to make room for pilgrims;
As opposed to the reverse.

Although to be honest, considering the anti-AIDS activists, sexual-assault victims and likely many other people wronged by the organization, it would be hard indeed to have a remotely uniform occupation movement as there are simply so many things wrong with the Vatican.
-Let alone to get down to its more-than-likely dubious monetary activities.

OUG I was raised in the Catholic system and rebelled.There were and are many good people working within this system.The hierachy at the Vatican are corrupt probably always were when King Constantine united all his religions under one banner to consolidate his power base.

We have to distinguish between religion and spirituality.Religion is all about power over other people but spirituality is about disciplining yourself.

Arjay: "Religion is all about power over other people but spirituality is about disciplining yourself."

Good grief. That is the first time I agree with you. *hits screen save*

Arjay, I don't believe the Vatican have anyone but themselves to worry about if they want control over any sort of finances!
I would be very wary of their motives indeed...

Arjay: "Religion is all about power over other people but spirituality is about disciplining yourself."

I agree with the first part of your statement, but was wondering what you mean by 'disciplining yourself', as far as spirituality is concerned Arjay?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBrmH2pCmyM&feature=related

The vatican...lol...yes StG, the world as it is, is still unknown as is the evidence for anything religious people have to say:) I thought the most gullible people on earth were those that believed in truth, justice, religious governments, voters, US bible police, but NO! its every human-being that simply cant think.

Mental illness among some, are as dangerous as the morons that teach it:)

"Religion is all about power over other people but spirituality is about disciplining yourself."

Only one part of that is right, and its not spirituality:) you can call the feeling of life anything you like:)

"but spirituality is about disciplining yourself."

No! disciplining yourself, is all about disciplining the child with-in.

No GOD required.......just you, if your strong enough.

....if not.....the sheep-people are waiting for you:)

CACTUS

we shouldnt change topics midstream

":"Religion is all about power over other people""

i would add in the word gaining...'power over others'
but then the next bit needs more urgent clarification

'"but spirituality is about disciplining yourself."""

spirituality that is abnout self discipline..
is like a child bending over to get spanked
thinking they broke some rule

the only message..that religeon is charged to deliver..is to love god by loving neighbour..[to not cast stones..to not judge sin..;because thats the perogative of only one good god..[who dont judge no one]

but by postulating..prost-e-little-ising
in error..we lead ourselves and others astray

jesus came to reveal..no day or 'reserction'
to wit he came back from death..in 3 days
ie was resercted..

[he said see that ye see me do/
/you shall do greater]

thus he wernt judged
neither shal we [any]...be judged
if you boil it down to its nub..we sin
only because god made us capable of knowing good from vile

[and the sorting from the wheat and the chaff
the pigs from the goats..is only after harvest[death]

when those who love the same things
who chose to do the same good and or evils
go to the same place..[in the fathers many roomed house]

the tares to the tares room
the goats to the goat room
the buddists to theirs ..the xtians to theirs
the mahamoudians to theirs..cathoholics to theirs..and even the due has their jew room..[just like those who love murder got their room and the lovers lie in the same bedroom]

in short..the church should be sending the message
more [of the same;you chose to love in this realm]..
shall be given..[in the next]..

so be carefull that you idolise
for those loving to murder..shall be the only ones being murderd
those wanting to give 'love'..will be the only ones 'loved'

that being said..the popes silence
where he could awaken the sleepers
deserves its own hell

and as for hrh..[the queen]..the non catoholic pope
[the 'other piope]...well she wont be told..her trust is betrayed

maybe if she aspired to more modest means
those desiring the same[her high life]..
could bring their desires
to a more realistic
more sustainable level

but she is just a figure head
living in a delusion..but could be the means to awake those with the true power..who stand to condem themselves to the lower hells for lengthy terms..

[by being ignorant..of the erternity..we all face before us]..
long after earths 'glories' have faded

I think I know the answer, Suseonline.

>>I agree with the first part of your statement, but was wondering what you mean by 'disciplining yourself', as far as spirituality is concerned Arjay?<<

I suspect it has a great deal to do with hair shirts...

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07113b.htm

...and self-flagellation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8375174.stm

It's his Catholic upbringing.

Interestingly, these habits are also evident in a non-physical form, in his posts here about matters financial. At least, that's the only viable theory I have been able to come up with so far.

More adhominem from Pericles.Is that the best you can muster?
The members within the Catholic Church have done much good but the hierarchy toe the corporate line of power without spirituality.

I don't expect to have a consciousness beyond death.I like to think that my wisdom gets passed on thus achieving a better world.The concept of god is a human one trying to explain a complex universe.We have not evolved enough to really understand what we are and our place in the universe.Would you save and ant at your feet with the thought it might one day evolve into a higher life form? Superior beings to us would have a similar attitude.

Back to the topic.What role should the Catholic Church have in initiating a new Global Bank and central regulating authority? No one it seems wants to debate the real issues.

on the bbc last night
[world have your say]..this topic was its main feature
[or rather the occupation of st pauls]..which has now been blessed
[by the resignation of two people wanting it gone]

as suggested earlier..
the queen holds some form of papal 'power'
but id a pure figurehead..as the crown ..isnt her majesty

all the issues inherant of the occupy movement
[disparity with the money changers]..
has its fix in revelation 22;2

''on either side of the river..
was there ..the tree of life..which bare twelve manna of fruits
and yeilded her fruits..every month;..AND THE LEAVES off the tree were for the healing of the nations""..[debt's..as well as the peoples debts to nations]

thats why i created the wikseed/wikigeld
and issued it to each and every living thing
[all life comes from god..we are the mortal heirs of the immortal good god]

the wiki is our inheritance
to bailout the nations

i put the deal to the pope[hrh]
and was locked up and reviled for my efforts
it shouldnt be too hard to restore true values..with a primise to pay debt in hemp seed..[ie it is the base for 35,000 different products]

35,000 fruits every day
let alone 12 [one per month]
it only takes hrh..[and that other pope]..to say its gods will

and its done
someone needs to lobby the popes
saying.."sign the wikiseed treaty now"

OUG. Study the Khazars.Apparently they are not Semites but assumed the Jewish faith as a matter of convience which the likes of the Rothschilds are ancestors.

You're right, Arjay.

>>More adhominem from Pericles.Is that the best you can muster?<<

I should try harder.

But the whole direction of this thread is quite confusing. As far as I can tell from the reports, the Vatican has no interest whatsoever in taking part in "initiating a new Global Bank and central regulating authority". They simply wish that someone else would do it.

Did you actually read the document itself or did you - as is your normal practice - merely suck up the equally uninformed speculations from your favourite conspiracy web site?

No need to answer that, I'm pretty sure I can guess.

But here, take a look through my copy.

http://democraciaparticipativa.net/documentos-data-a-referenda/documents-in-english/documents-on-economy/3993-towards-reforming-the-international-financial-and-monetary-systems-in-the-context-of-global-public-authority.html

And work out for yourself whether your accusation that they are encouraging the establishment of "An un-electable Gobal Banking authority" is based on anything it contains.

Sheesh. You'd find "global conspiracy" in two flies climbing a wall.

Pericles,face the reality.The global private banksters create from nothing, all the new money for growth + inflation in their computers as debt with the click of a computer mouse.This makes them supreme rulers since they loan this money to our Govts + businesses + individuals.

Now with the collapse,they have ripped off even more money from you and every other worker.You cannot be that stupid!

tried to post this to belly arab spring topic
and got 'prevented'..from posting
so place it here before trying again

hi mr bell..i tried to post this comment here
http://au.news.yahoo.com/local/qld/a/-/local/11304702/qld-protesters-dwindle-after-evictions/

but so far nothing...[so as it relates to pro-testing..!]
thus i pro=tested

LIKE ARABS CAN DO..but i in a police state cant..!

i will add it to your spring time topic

im the old guy at the end of the vidio
http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=681284&vId=2823165&cId=Top%20Stories

the vidio at 7 shows more detail
but ..lol..refuses to 'play]

so as i wrote at the first link
[and what hasnt posted]..lol

""i came to listen and watch..
[by the way im a self funded retired person]
not some dole bludger..and am concerned with much i hear on the news

i heard barnbaby joyce shutdown
when he dared to talk of qld debt..
[then at 65 billion...that 'rolls over into 75 billion in 2012 so i hear]..

im also concerned with the greek debt..who have the same polulation base as qld..and the fact that out state debt is near theirs..[the only difference being were overtaxed here..and get cheap intrest..while greece is paying 26% each year

so clearly i needed facts
so sat in the HOT kinggeorge square..watching

when *they were moved on..[so much for 'occupy'..lol
i went to where they were..[in the shade]

and was orderd to 'move on..[lol]..from a public space?

anyhow i told them to go away
they said repeatedly im under arrest..and picked me up
then 6 meters later..dropped me..as i passed out from heat egsaustion

[the 'new kinggeorge squre is darn hot mate
designed to stop protest?]

i note from the footage..i was immediatly handcuffed
and a nice police man waterboarded me..lol

[after all this is queensland ruled
by those serving the state,..not the queen]
even though police are sworn to the queen[like me]

and no one is NOT allowed to watch others complain..pro-test..
[ie the 1%..who dare to briefly complain]

anyhow..the 7 vision speaks for itself
and maybe the 9

i was drenched with water
and eventually left alone in the shade..

to wonder what the heck had happend
to the right to simply sit and watch the world go by

peace man
it simply means watching the watchers
http://au.news.yahoo.com/local/qld/a/-/local/11304702/qld-protesters-dwindle-after-evictions/
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=9+news+brisbane+occupy&hl=en&sa=G&gbv=2&prmd=ivnsu&source=univ&tbm=nws&tbo=u&ei=lfWyTq3zOMWViAfomO2fAg&ved=0CBoQqAI
http://www.google.com.au/url?q=http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx%3Fid%3D8369211&sa=U&ei=lfWyTq3zOMWViAfomO2fAg&ved=0CB8QFjAC&sig2=C00lF0yz9Eu_kSVbVv5FAw&usg=AFQjCNGLl0q6Hk_q_0803UNPelCbBinyyw
http://www.google.com.au/url?q=http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8368609/police-evict-occupy-brisbane-protesters&sa=U&ei=lfWyTq3zOMWViAfomO2fAg&ved=0CCEQFjAD&sig2=upCIKcZJTU9SHEC5EvOKVw&usg=AFQjCNFrmZUivb0tvX5RcwfioyUngHQB1A
http://www.google.com.au/url?q=http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx%3Fid%3D8368609&sa=U&ei=lfWyTq3zOMWViAfomO2fAg&ved=0CCMQFjAE&sig2=07l14zAGRQ7dSeS3KkA2lQ&usg=AFQjCNFPnHfGBM7HnDOITia4wBfUKc194A

anyhow have a laugh
im bruised..but not batterd about too much

was it worth it..lol
mate im not shot dead
so its all good..

anyhow mate all the be4st
from johannine

Not exactly, Arjay.

>>This makes them supreme rulers since they loan this money to our Govts + businesses + individuals.<<

What it does, is make the Banks highly vulnerable to the stupidity of governments (and individuals, of course) who over-borrow like crazy in the boom times, then whinge like stuck pigs when the reality of their position comes back to bite them.

All those banks who lent to the Greek government have had to accept only half their money back. You can say that the Banks were wrong to lend them the money in the first place, but you can hardly suggest that they are the "supreme rulers" in the equation.

The only reason that governments have taken so much trouble to keep the banks afloat - and received the flak for it - is that they have no alternative. Allowing the entire banking system to collapse would bring down governments too. Not just in the political sense, where one party takes over from another. But in the sense that companies would be unable to operate, millions of people would not be paid their wages, and the country would suffer very badly, for a long time.

So they have to put a peg over their nose, and try to solve the problem without ruining the economy entirely - in full knowledge, of course, that they caused the bulk of the problems in the first place.

>>Now with the collapse,they have ripped off even more money from you and every other worker.You cannot be that stupid!<<

Ok, so I'm stupid. Tell me how "they" have ripped off even more money from us? Be a bit more specific, this time. Simply chuntering on about global private banksters isn't particularly informative.

the words of just one speaker
at one occupy gathering

http://jdeanicite.typepad.com/i_cite/2011/10/slavoj-%C5%BEi%C5%BEek-speaks-at-occupy-wall-street-transcript-the-parallax-impose-magazine.html

god bless those who put others thoughts into word

noted per ridicules last rant..

""What it does,
is make the Banks highly vulnerable""

tell him he is dreaming...its the savers who loose in the end
bank had nothing..made the debt..then got their govt stooges to sign the check

lol..vulnerable..""to the stupidity of governments""

more like govt is vulnerable to bankers greed

""(and individuals, of course)
who over-borrow like crazy in the boom times,""

which is why the bankers NEDED and got the bailout
by govt bonds..[at then low intrest]..but now going sky high[like greece FORCED to repay 4% intrest loans..with 26%..loans

better to default 4%
than 26%

mate thats criminal..!

BANKS..""then whinge like stuck pigs
when the reality of their position comes back to bite them.""

and they [by being too big to fail]
get bailed out..by govts lending from those claiming to be broke[bankers lending to fools[capitalists]..

then AGAIN lending..lol..to govts
to bail them out..

its insane mate
even worse its criminal
TREASON..for govt to bail out capitalists...

AND THEN LOCK IN 26%..intrest burdens
on top of austerity..and privatisation
[selling the peoples asets to capitalists..]

[mate your defending theft/treason
with inane raves]

""All those banks who lent to the Greek government have had to accept only half their money back.""

so how much WE
the tax payers getting?
only debt..at odious intrest rates

HIGH TREASON*

""You can say that the Banks were wrong
to lend them the money in the first place,""

giovts were wrong in giving the powers to bankers
HOW INSANE IS GOVT GIFTING THE FED control to bankers?

then paying intrest [up to 26%]..
to faceless bankers..on their own money
[its only legal tender cause govt says so

in reality its only paper
or cyber computer entries

""but you can hardly suggest that they""[bankers]
""are the "supreme rulers" in the equation.""

who decided that intrest will be 26%?

even here your wrong
""governments..have no alternative.""

yes they do
make the trich pay their fair share
pay their tax...stop hiding their wealth in family trusts..in corperations[owned by lol other corperations

we should be..""Allowing the entire banking system to collapse""
and govt take control over the REAL economy
govt running them..wages paid to workers
who own a share of the business

that would stop the next insanity of yourn
collapse.."" would bring down governments too.""

not if they went in to protect assets..protect the workers..protect the common weal..[and return to govt issuing intrest free money..!

your info..re ""global private banksters isn't particularly informative.""

that's just as trickey as your masters spin

Wrong again, one under god.

>>so how much WE
the tax payers getting?
only debt..at odious intrest rates<<

Our interest rates - and the Greek "taxpayers'" interest rates - are not only far from odious, they are going down.

Or hadn't you noticed?

GREEK bonmd rates[intrest]

has gone UP to 26%..!
thats what greeks WILL PAY..
on their odious govt debt bet..

per ridicules..quote..""Bonds aren't "taken out".
They are offered for sale. No-one is forced to buy them.""

so the most clever guys..in the room
the geeks..bought them..because they knew they will in the end win?

so lets egsamin the math
see the bottum line

i said..>>so look at it this way..better to 'default a 4% bond
or a 26%..bond..<<

you say...""Let's say..we have a 1 million euro bond,""

lets say more like real life

so were talking NOW about..[after the haircut][lol]
100 BILLION..

[so your egsample..should read 100 BILLION]

""issued with a 4% coupon.''
being paid out..by a new loan[sorry bond rate
of 26%..mate thats a rich yeild]

no wonder they are prepared to 'take a brief haircat..
PLUS a bailout[payoff..next year]..of the other 100 billion IN CASH..[sorry negotiable bond]

""It now changes hands for $154,000,""

that 'changes hands,..for 154,000,000,000'

""which gives an interest rate of 26%.""

ok im wit ya

tell me ol china
who has that sort of cash?
in euro's

TELL me ol china..whats
the FULL capitalisation of the euo's *issued by bankers?

""Asking "which is better to default on" is therefore a nonsense question""

no mate..IN ANY COURT..negotiating from 4%
and negotiating from 26%
gives a much larger ODIOUS DEBT..result

the bigger the numbers
the worse it gets

recall ..italy
BEGINS from 1 trillion plus
germany begins from 23 trillion plus
france BEGINS from 3 trillion plus

""you are defaulting on the principal,
not the interest rate.""

no mate
your defaulting from a contract
that hold your honour..[even if writ in dishonour]
defaulting on 4%..or defaulting on 26%..in 4 years
HAS ONLY COMPOUNDED THE REAL END DEBT..!

in four years its back
to what it is today..!

Clearer now?

As I have tried to explain many times, one under god, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation:

>>GREEK bonmd rates[intrest]
has gone UP to 26%..!
thats what greeks WILL PAY..
on their odious govt debt bet..<<

The is simply not correct. You have confused the yield available on the secondary market to people who want to hold Greek government debt, with the coupon rate established when the bond was issued...

Which

Does.

Not.

Change.

The only variable, given the current plan, is what the government will repay on the loan made to them, to the last institution holding their debt when the bond matures.

"Follow the money": if you were to track that bond to maturity, the yield available in the secondary market would inevitably move closer and closer to the coupon rate, until they are identical - on the date of redemption.

Does that help?