Erroneous flaws of the human instinct:

…Without doubt human relationships are what life is about: We are personally confronted with human relationship issues throughout our lives in a continuum of action and reaction. Some of the more obvious areas of our personal interactions are with retailers and the raft of other business dealings; many struggle with personality clashes between peer groups in the workplace: But observation dictates the most confronting relationships, those most emotionally intense and draining of energy, are too often relationships involving life partners, and the inevitable family attachments pertaining.

…My quest for a conclusive answer to this mysterious conundrum, set me on the path of wonder again recently, to question why the inaugural flush of love between sweethearts, all too soon sours with such devastating consequence, not unusually radiating negative outcomes to surrounding individuals of many families involved in the relationship to deal with; (collateral damage).

…The weak link in forming relationships (I love this acronym) IMO, is an expectation of success and happiness so formed, from a decision made with a complete trust in our flawed instinct for choice; a human instinct set deeply and internally in our brains two million years ago, but now desperately attempting to remain credible, and by so doing, convincingly fooling us into believing an applicability and infallibility of its decision making engineering, will succeed in successful decision making in a modern world captured by the exponentially speeding change of our personal environment.

…How then do we gear our antiquated “horse and cart” instincts to a new and emerged age of speed, requiring a comparable and reliable decision making ability to keep pace in our inter-personal dealings, but at the same time, one that allows the soul of the natural decision making apparatus in our brains, to rest in peace, and happy to be less relied upon: The question extends to what decision making compass can be relied upon for the unique purpose of making correct choices in our personal relationships?

You are a very brave man Diver Dan.
If honesty is to over come personal pain.
If individuals personal experiences are not to reject reality, we may talk forever on this subject.
And fight!
At my birth the scales in matters of personal relationships tilted.
After a brief courtship followed by a wedding mums and dads settled in to a lifetime of near separatism.
He in the pub till 6pm she in the kitchen, love and romance was not the prime mover.
He even called her MUM!
Dads could wander while away from mum but it was not seen much that mum did the same.
A freedom came to females at the time of the pill, todays young woman would not understand the life of her grandmother.
Both men and women now strive to find total love and a love that rarely ever exists.
I blame evolution.
Looking for the best mate the best looking performing hunter gathering mate.
Life is short not forever, and while we waste time looking for perfection life passes us by.
While we consider we deserve better we ignore the great thing looking us IN the eye a loyal partner is worth twenty in the bush.
By the way todays self centered little Princesses would turn me to republicanism if I was still a Hunter gatherer.

interesting topic dan
but even animal instinct has 'relations'
some say thats what evolution is really all about
much of course..depends on..what we CHOSE to relate to/with...

your talk relates much to my most recent notes
i would have titled into a topic called soul mates
or more specificlly re-incarnation re soul meetings..

[as opposed to your...""why the inaugural flush of love..between sweethearts,..all too soon sours..with such devastating..connsequence,..

not unusually radiating negative outcomes..to surrounding individuals of many families involved..in the relationship to deal with;..(collateral damage).
""]

i can find reply there..for condolances

we are all joined..[that we do to the least
we do to the most..;who enjoins us][but who specifily..hasnt got that peer/relation..[equal]..thus where HIS..""expectation of success and happiness so formed,""

with us his creation
us created in his image
rejected from the beginning by adam
[who wanted what the beasts got;thus got his sister]

think of the only..[L]only 'one'

""from a decision made..with a complete trust
in"..HIS*.."flawed instinct for choice;""

his choice..not..""a human instinct
set deeply and internally in our brains two million years ago,""
[666.000 years ago]

""but now desperately attempting to remain credible,
and by so doing,..convincingly fooling us into believing an applicability and infallibility of"..his...""decision making engineering,""

and gift upon those
he thought to adore as EQUAL

his creation's..""will succeed in successful decision
making in a modern world captured..by the exponentially speeding change of our personal environment.>>""

of the self realisation that we are all..
on our path to seeing his good godlyness IN ALL
[it begins with LOVE...that belessed FELINg of oneness..[at-one-meant]

""…How then do we gear our antiquated “horse and cart” instincts..to a new and emerged age of speed,"""

slowdown..live in the moment
see[find]..the good in EVERYTHING...in EVEryone

love finds us cause it travels no distance
it[he lies within every living thing]..""requiring a comparable and reliable decision making ability..to keep pace in our inter-personal dealings,""

yeah man
LOVE IT*

""but at the same time,..one that allows..the soul""..lol

""of the natural decision making apparatus in our brains,..to rest in peace,..and happy to be..*..less relied upon:""

yeah
we are so close to all out love feasting

""The question extends..to what decision making compass
can be relied upon..""

IMPORTANT QUESTION

LOVE*
love....luv
love is all we need

love our other
love our brother
luv our sister too

love life
love yourself
love the gift we all share
that love deep within us all..[EL]

Diver Dan,

I think we can be taught to understand the emotions involved in relationships. Nothing is absolute of course but some guidelines can be established at a very early age.

That the initial attraction is usually little more than a mating urge no matter how we disguise it with words like love etc it does not necessarily mean the relationship is doomed to failure.

True love and respect is learned and earned and as such takes time and effort which many are not willing to give. Anything worthwhile takes effort to achieve and a relationship is no different.

To think the first flush of love or attraction is going to make for a deep and long lasting relationship is fraught with peril.

If it is to be worthwhile you must talk when its time to talk and be quiet when that is also necessary. A touch at the appropriate time will convey more than any amount of words will do.

It is about learning and the willingness to learn. It is about responsibility and the acceptance of that responsibility. You are dealing with something unique, another human being, possibly the greatest gift that can be given to another. Like a gift of any value it needs to treasured and made secure.

It needs to be taught and demonstrated at a very early age as the knowledge for a successful relationship is not inherent in us.

Just my thoughts.

Take it easy.

SD

Recognising self control and its application to love!

...Intellect and instinct exist in chasmal separation; thus, intelligent thought required to assess outcomes applicable to decision making, which incorporates consequences, is not subjective to intuitive control, whereas instinct is.

...The void between intellect and instinct is the synaptic gap requiring a “conductor” (of sorts) for connection of the two mediums and thus facilitating the flow of intelligent and informed reaction by similarly allowing the performance of interpretative instruction to the external stimulus (presenting as the reactive force) which is to be dealt with by the instinct to be combined with the intellect, thus producing a controlled and beneficial personal outcome!

Diver Dan,

Arthur Koestler posited that the relationship in man between the instinct and the intellect was one akin to a horse and rider without any connection between them...hence, the curious propensity of "wise man" to screw up many of his best laid plans.

DD,

To me there are some areas where words are inadequate as it is a different experience for every individual and or couple.

From my point of view the ratio of instinct to reason can never be defined between a particular couple. And nor should it be.

"I cannot understand what he/she sees in him/her" is a standard comment and displays the uniqueness of every relationship.

You have the words that I do not and it is obvious you are far more intelligent than I so I will have to stand back and let you educate me as to the whys and wherefores. I shall follow your posts with interest. Simple language please as you are dealing with one who has little education when it comes to such matters.

Take it easy.

SD

All posters:

…A big “thanking you” to all that are “on-board”, and comments are noted, be assured.

…I wish to follow my line taken for a while longer; the object is to identify the mythical compass which will offer a safe, prosperous and long journey to love and relationship in a world full of dangerous reefs and much foul weather.

…From the outset I have postulated a theory offering some explanation to the propensity to failure all love endures prior to identification from amongst all the common buds of love that commence the fateful journey, that we may attest to the rareness of that gem among them all, that blooms to a fullness, as the flower of “true” love, (or as we may prefer, “enduring” love).

…We admire it, and are jealous of its strength and purpose. But here we hold love high against the light of reasoning just for a while, before laying it bare on the dissecting table of OLO for analyses of its many parts, that more may avoid the pain of another of natures failures, as hide she will, her truth from the masses, hoodwinked into the broad road of failure, whose crushed hearts lay strewn amongst the wilted petals of a dead love; old dreams hidden behind the drawn curtains of a hopelessness, gone cold in the silent fields of pain, there, metamorphosing into a retributive “praying-mantis” filled with post-relationship blues, intent on devouring the mate once so adored and loved (sic). Let none of us stray into those hot-ashes of failure; it is bad for the children!

DD,

Yes. Quite!

SD

There is of course no magic or mystery about love, but certainly
false expectations due in part to all those Hollywood movies.

A number of species pairbond, usually those where lots of resources
are required to raise the offspring.

I was once in touch with a very clever scientist, IIRC she was
from the University of Maryland. They wanted to know why prairie
voles were such loyal critters, pairbonding and staying faithful,
even when tempted with other young, cute, female prairie voles. Unlike
the Kansas vole, which shagged whatever came along.

They used radioactive substances to find the answer, but it came
down to vasopressin receptors in certain parts of the limbic system.
Sadly they could not do the same human experiments for obvious
reasons.

Given the huge amount of dna that we share with other species,
something like 98% with chimps and bonobos for instance, I would
not be surprised if we have some genetic variations in the human
population. Some would carry the same gene as prairie voles,
some as the Kansas vole.

Oh Diver, so poetic!

Here's my take, & there's not much instinct in it.

He was one of the boys. He got drunk with his mates a couple of times a month. Didn't have too much to do with girls, just the odd drunken one night stand, & there were a lot less of them than he led his mates to believe.

She was a bit like him. She was interested in love, but the only one she had really wanted, hadn't even noticed she existed. Her biology was strong, she started getting clucky. She wanted to be a mum, or at least build a nest to get ready for it.

She looks around, & decides he's the best offering. Gives him some attention, laughs at his jokes, takes him to bed----nicely. It's not skyrockets & shooting stars, but he'll do.

He is flattered, his ego swells, in fact it gets big enough to encompass both of them. This must be love. He'd never expected skyrockets.

They get married, or live in sin. The latter probably more fun for him, but a wedding is the culmination of her youth.

He for 20 years tries to make her happy. Gets the house. Probably provides the sperm for a couple of kids. She's his misses, & he's content. It would be nice if she bitched less, but hay, they all do that don't they? He doesn't even notice the sagging boobs, or the cellulite.

She has the nest & the couple of kids, but it's not enough somehow. The fulfillment & contentment is just not there. It has to be his fault some how. She hates the sagging boobs, & cellulite, they make her feel her life life is finished, & nothing happened.

The girls club show her how, she kicks him out, keeps the house, & a goodly chunk of his income. She must be a winner, but some how it doesn't feel like it.

Continued

Continued.

He is devastated. He thought they were happy----ish. What happened, he never saw this coming. He wonders what he could have done better.

What he or she should have done was shoot through after a few years. We are a serial monogamous species. We are not meant to stay together for decades.

The problem is not with the instinct, it is with the socialisation, which is not in keeping with our natures

A plea to posters..maintain the rage!

...See, so much loss, so much pain, so much inexplicable stupidity; from metaphor to reality, so much desperate "failing", searching for the elusive answer to failed relationship and a love grown cold.

...A thousand reasons to go there, but a million reasons to run! The synaptic weakness between intellect and instinct, the "point" where sense and intelligence and cold hard logic surrender to stupidity and instinct. Love!

diverse dan...quote..''"the object is..to identify the mythical compass..which will offer a safe,..prosperous and long journey..to love and relationship..in a world full of dangerous reefs and much foul weather.''

tell him he's dreaming
not in this world..but more likly in the next

here we all wear a mask...have learned top pretend civilisation
dream of a soul mate...[when in reality we are so diverse..in our intrests...so as to not be compatable except in overlapping areas..like kids or shared finance common hates/loves...[in limited areas]

the next world is organised
along line of common passions
spheres of confluence..plains of common reasonings

there life goes on non stop..doing all the things we wanted to do here..but were to afraid to try to do here now..or thought we couldnt do..so settled for a more or less union with some other

…""the propensity to failure all love endures""

yep we meet and marry ..by pretending
mary another pretender..till we get sick of the pretence
[and post tense]

""that we may attest to the rareness of that gem among them all, that blooms to a fullness,..as the flower of “true” love,..(or as we may prefer, “enduring” love).""

mate i love seafood
but if i could only ever eat seafood ALL THE TIME
im sure i would soon learn to hate it

we change
things change
kids grow up...we love this now
who knows what we will love tomorrow?

…""that more may avoid the pain
of another of natures failures,..as hide she will, her truth from the masses, hoodwinked into the broad road of failure,..whose crushed hearts lay strewn amongst the wilted petals of a dead love;""

yeah a nice turn of phrase

""old dreams hidden behind the drawn curtains
of a hopelessness, gone cold in the silent fields of pain,''


quote continues

there, metamorphosing into a retributive “praying-mantis”..filled with post-relationship blues,..""

yea building castles in the clouds
as we live longer..we find many more to love

""intent on devouring the mate
once so adored and loved (sic).""

any love is only a temporary love
its a matter of loving everything all the time
[or more..not to *hate anything]

""Let none of us stray into those hot-ashes of failure;""
by allways having many potential pleasures in play

and not dwell in misery

''it is bad egsample]..for the children!]]

yea ahhhhmen