runner,

Surpluses are untenable in the face of impending recession. This was learnt from the Great Depression. John Howard put the country into debt to avert the Asian Economic Crisis in the 90s. I'm sure he would have done the same again, considering it worked.

So Gillard "lied" but Howard just "changed his mind"? They both changed their mind. I'm sure Gillard had no intention of introducing a carbon tax until she was forced to compromise to avoid giving Tony Abbott control of the reins. It's a stepping stone to the ETS, which was always the policy, and was Howard's policy too in '07. Get over it.

Howard didn't stop any illegals... Boat numbers of refugees (not illegals) dropped, but the illegals are the ones who come by plane and overstay. Furthermore, the drop in boat numbers can not be definitively attributed to the Pacific Solution.

Howard started a war based on lies. Thousands died, and continue to die, as a result. a few deaths indeed....

I agree with you TCM about Howard Costello etc except the bit that said they "provided surpluses". They in fact sold valuable and profitable public assets too fund these surpluses.

That is a different thing altogether, and with that went the Australian way of life. Down the the ideological spiral we descend in todays post Howard Costello times with not a thing we own to our name and renting our former public assets from the people we sold them too.
Up the price spiral goes the cost to the consumer of essential services fuel etc without any apparent reason for such price hikes except the goals of boardrooms and shareholders.

Abbott is a truly scary prospect because after all the postulating I have read on this post with regard to his character,
I still don't really know who this guy is.

The policies the opposition have presented are nothing more than a mish mash bunch of general promises, inventions and outright lies. You can't tell who they are from just that. But when you consider this with their consistent policy of attempting to dismantle or destabilise the sitting Gov't in any way possible (even resorting to the pernicious) to do so, then you do learn something about their character, but you learn nothing really at all, about what it is they would actually do, if they were in Gov't.

I suspect that the Independents made their choice because the possibility of an Abbott Prime Ministership was too extreme a prospect at that time and too unclear, too ill defined, even more so now.

Without knowing in any way who TA really is ?, (and fearful about whom he might be if he were our PM), the closest description that I can relate too of TA that I have heard, is the one about the possibility of Abbott being John Howard's and Bronwyn Bishop's love child.

And that would be a truly scary prospect.

TrashcanMan

You obviously can't face the truth.Howard took the GST to the election while Gillard lied and is to gutless to take it to the electorate because she knows people are not stupid. To call this leadership is an insult to democracy. This is socialism by a deluded deceitful Government.

To claim Howard started a war shows your ignorance. Gillard is still supporting the US in Afghanstan in case you did not realise.

Your playing on words (illegals/refugees) is the sort of deceit that the general public has woken up to. Refugees generally can't afford to pay tens of thousands of dollars to catch a ferry to Australia. Gillard herself admits to that thus her failed plan 225 (Malaysia deal).

She won't take it to an election because the public ARE stupid, believing the lies of the anti-AGW lobby.

For you to talk about the Afghan war shows your blinkers are on. It is obvious I was referring to the Iraq War, the one more people protested against in one day than have protested the carbon tax to date.

I'm not playing on words, I'm using the correct word to describe what I'm talking about, which you are not. You are calling boat people illegals, when they are not doing anything illegal. You can't tell me that is new to you, so therefore it is runner who is playin with words to push your weak position

trashcanman:

I have a lot of patience for the deluded Trash...Good luck son!

I'm sorry for not spelling out my dislike for the views Abbott has about many issues, but if anyone wants to look back a bit in this post, I DID post several of Abbott's statements that upset me.

Pelican, if this guy wants to be in the public eye and make statements and try to change hard fought for abortion laws or ban a contraceptive purely on a religious morality basis, then I have the right to say I really don't like him!

Antiseptic, at no stage in this debate have I made this discussion an Abbott versus Gillard / man versus woman battle.
At least Benk understood that my problem with Abbott is more a religion based objection than any gender war thing.

It is what it is.
Just my personal views about the personal opinions
of a parliamentarian who chose to air those views in public.

He is fair game to anyone, just like we are fair game to anyone when we write our opinions in public on this forum.
It's as simple as that...