I find this hard to believe because atheists always say they care about tolerance, equality, acceptance, inclusiveness and civil rights...

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/gods-truth-believers-are-nicer-20110908-1jzrl.html

Religion is always a very highly debated subject. However since the debate about immigrants (particularly the boat people), has been raging around the forum, I have found that, in my Town, it is the Christian people to whom I have spoken, who deplore the very idea of taking people from other cultures where the religion is different to Christianity. Their negative comments have made be feel ashamed to be an Australian, sadly there is no welcoming party for these newly arrived people insofar as these Christians I have alluded to are concerned.
Mostly I think that the fear over rides their rationale, thanks to the scare campaigns offered up by some political parties.
In Australia, it has been noted that many Australian children have been abused by their so-called Guardians in Institutions such as orphanages and Christian Schools and Colleges. It would seem that the Pope has prayed for wayward Priests, asking God to forgive them for their Sins, whereby in fact the "sins" were a crime in every sense of the word.
One only has to look at the Evangelists in the Bible belt of America to know that some have had illicit affairs with both males and females. Unfortunately some of the money raking evangelists hide behind religion for protection of their bad behaviour. Religion is a personal thing. Once groups form, it then becomes unstable, whereby families are divided because one member doesn't agree with what is being so-called taught by the Church leader.
A good, but very Controversial article, thanks for the link.
NSB

I wonder if he has done a study on religious businesses and how nice they are compared to their openly profit hungry counterparts.

Was the study done on the religious meaning Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus? Richer or poorer? In groups?

It’s like watching umm.. ACA last night? Thing about speed cameras and how there are more cameras now but the road toll numbers remain the same. I wanted to know if there are twice as many cars on the road now but they didn’t mention it while trying to prove the cameras aren't working or I think that was what they were saying.

Noisy got me wondering what stats would show if we had the numbers of children abused by the religious compared to non-believers over the years.

Me too, TRUTHNOW78.

>>I find this hard to believe because atheists always say they care about tolerance, equality, acceptance, inclusiveness and civil rights...<<

So I'll just wait awhile, and suspend judgment until I find the time to look behind the scenes at the data these two authors are using.

I might be exhibiting a little less cynicism if one of the two had been atheist, instead of both having been bound up with religion in one form or another all their lives. Putnam as a Methodist-turned-Jew, and Campbell as the Mormon son of a Catholic-mother-turned-Mormon and Protestant-father-turned-Mormon (phew!).

The SMH correspondent, Simon Smart, is also not exactly a disinterested party, being a director of the Centre for Public Christianity.

From the book's reviews, too, there is a lot of "how can this be?" incredulity.

Jane Eisner, in the Jewish Daily, raised an eyebrow at Putnam and Campbell's conclusion that "...Jews are the most popular religious group, a finding that, no doubt, will be greeted by some Jews with surprise and skepticism."

So I know that it is not just you and I, TRUTHNOW78, who "find this hard to believe..."

Thanks Pericles

You saved me from having to do a background check.

Why didn't the Christian authors of this study just start with religion in general?

How about comparing the "niceness" of Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Scientologists with Christians. Oh the penny has dropped, because atheists have no religion they must be less "nice".

Less nice than people who would stone women for being raped, less nice than denying equal rights to gays, less nice than celibate priests 'caring' for little children, less nice than forcing women to term if pregnant, less nice than George Pell?

Can't wait for those "nice" Christian posters like Philo et al to give we mere atheists the benefit of their "niceness".

How about Pastor Mike Stahl, he is so leery of atheists that he believes we should be registered like sex offenders or like paedophile priests SHOULD be.

>>>>>>>> Brothers and Sisters , I have been seriously considering forming a ( Christian ) grassroots type of organization to be named “The Christian National Registry of Atheists” or something similar . I mean , think about it . There are already National Registrys for convicted sex offenders , ex-convicts , terrorist cells , hate groups like the KKK , skinheads , radical Islamists , etc..

This type of “National Registry” would merely be for information purposes . To inform the public of KNOWN ( i.e., self-admitted) atheists . For example , let’s say you live in Colorado Springs , Colorado , you could simply scroll down ( from the I-Net site /Blog ) I would have , to the State of Colorado , and then when you see “Colorado Springs” , you will see the names of all the self-admitted atheist(s) who live there ( e.g., if an atheist’s name happened to be “Phil Small” ) . The individual’s physical address , and other known personal information would NOT be disclosed ( though , perhaps a photo could be ).<<<<<<<<<<


http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2011/08/30/pastor-wants-national-registry-for-atheists/

It is sad that in this day and age, with science that suggests that a big pair of hands didn't reach out into the ether and make Adam & Eve etc, I personally am not Christian, although dragged along to Church every Sunday was an absolute pain to me. It is biologically impossible to have a Virgin birth by any stretch of imagination, but then again religion should be personal rather than influenced by some mis-guided person(s).
I am not surprised that a lot of people are turning away from the Churches, I just find it incredible that people really believe in the Chinese whispers aka the Bible. I find that the non-christian members of our little town are the volunteers, the helpers and the kindly type.
Cheers NSB

TRUTHNOW78:"I find this hard to believe because atheists always say they care about tolerance, equality, acceptance, inclusiveness and civil rights..."

Well of course they do, but that has nothing to do with 'being nice'.

They are also quite concerned about the truth. If anyone thinks that they are 'nicer' because they believe in a deity, then good on them, some people know better.

you can find a study that says anything

i met a few athiest right here
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4683&page=0

dont get wisdom from any survey
EVEN if..if it sounds right
you can still..*be wrong

and appart from them
chosing ignorance..over given answers
they all seem just fine..

[and im not just saying that
so my own..hate of the ignorant..and uniformed
dont bind me..into their chosen delusions..and biased wishfullness]

with the way most believers act
[ie un christian]...and with the lie
of a judgmental partiarchal tyrant..who could blame them]

xtians are their own worst ennemy
if only they DID as the holy christ DID*

[you get more friends by being nice
with grace mercy forgivness..than by namecalling]

oh well one day
we just might follow the egsample of the christ

but what a man thinks in his heart
he becomes

so i will let them both be
believer or unbveliever

if you got faith
but not living it in truth and justice
[well its all just honouring[or blashpheming].

cause thats what you love doing

ahh men
getting grace/mercy..forgivness
is as easy as giving it unto each other..[first]

turn the other cheek
there but for grace go we

Speaking of religion......... what ever happened to Runner? Did one of you nasty atheists do him in?

Hi Aime

I am alive and well. Most athiest I know are very nice unless of course they are speaking to a bible believing Christian. Often then they froth at the mouth.

Speaking of religion......... what ever happened to Runner? Did one of you nasty atheists do him in? I'll answer that one:) Runner got suspended, then he would pop in now and again, but didn't say anything. I think he's over the shock of the event.

See non religions people get their knickers in a knot over the free ride Christians get from the tax-payers/public donations.

Only atheists can see the smug attitudes of those that put their beliefs in people faces, however from a early age, child-abuse sits equal with the recruitment drive their told to do, to keep the numbers strong and cashed up.

Its just not fair.

All Australians should get high quality education, but its not the case, is it.

Human-beings are all made up of the same stuff, and the third element which is call love, are in higher doses in Christan's pleasure centre of the brain. Religion sits close to same effect as drugs have, the high is triggered by the overwhelming joy they receive from feeling one is protected, by all powerful protecting super-natural being.

Atheists see the religious types as not well or just high. Magic mushrooms have the same effect:)

I think religious people are happier and more nicer by their condition.....and those that are not religious, see the reel world and tend to be more serious about the world around them.

The poor things:)

cactus:)

Ah, Runner! Glad to have you back :-)

I believe you and I would have to agree to disagree when it comes to religion. I'm also sure we'd have a healthy regard for each other over a latte. I hesitate to say a beer as I believe you'd find it a "nectar of the devil."

In reality, I shouldn't even be posting on this article as it's not in my domain. I don't believe in a god creator, rather, I believe that this earth is my mother and from her atoms I did rise. When I die I'll return to atoms and eventually be part of some other living creature. I hope it's a shingle-back. I love them, but I'd happily put up with being part of a dog. I love dogs too, even though they're often treated horribly.

My spirit is part of the earth, of the trees and the streams. I have no fear of death for my atoms will go on long after mankind has left this planet as surely he will. He already needs two planets to keep this ridiculous consumer lifestyle going much longer and soon he'll need three. It's a pity religious people believe that their god will "provide." He will not! We've lived in some amazing times, but it's all about to end.

Time is short and my glass is empty. How about joining me in a glass Runner? And once again, welcome back. In all sincerity, I've missed you!

I'm of the opinion that there are nice and nasty people in both camps really.
I have known many nasty God-believers, but also many nasty atheists.

One only has to peruse the past threads on this site on such subjects as Gay marriage, abortion, and euthanasia, to check out writers from both groups.

I'ts all just part of being human... wherever we come from : )

Thanks Aimee for your kind words. We certainly do have very different beliefs. You have a faith in mother earth, I have a faith in Father God and His Son Jesus Christ. I appreciate your honesty.

btw I don't consider beer or wine as nectar of the devil but hate the way it destroys many lives. In moderation I have no objection to these things.

Suzie seems to think that anyone who opposes the killing of the unborn is nasty. Funny enough it wasn't long back that those who killed the unborn were nasty.

What on earth made you think I was talking about you Runner?

If you read my post again you will see I said there were nasty people from BOTH camps.

I would also suggest there are just as many non-Christians and Atheists who are opposed to abortion, as there are Christians.

One doesn't have to be Christian to have what you consider to be the 'nice' views.

Ah religion - the original con game, the oldest scam on Earth. People, there's no such thing as the supernatural. Not only doesn't it exist, it can't exist - the fundamental laws of physics prohibit it. If ever there was a supernatural event the universe would come to an end. The fact that the universe still exists is proof enough that the supernatural is not real.
All there is in religion is people who want power over you in order to separate you from your money, mess with your mind and in some cases mess with your body. It's a clever little scam as the reward (eternal life) is never paid. It's perfectly obvious that if you're religious you're a fool. Call me a nasty little atheist if you like, but that won't stop you being a fool.

Dear Jewely,
Did you look at the stats on abused children yet?. In Western Australia, the Government announced that those children now much older, who were raised in Orphanages and abused would be compensated for the wrong doings., thus a time period of one year was allowed for those children to lodge a submission. The maximum payout was to be 80,000 dollars for the worst form of abuse and then went on a sliding scale according to the level of abuse. So many submissions were posted that the Premier, Mr.Barnett had to reduce the payment to half that amount. He was visibly shocked when he discovered the amount of abuse meted out to these young people.
The abuse of course, was not just endemic in the Institutional area, but of course in the home, no money was offered to those, (fair enough).
The knowledge of these kids, already without parents, being abused by their so called carers, brought me undone.
NSB

My experience with religious people is that they're fine as long as all goes their way. When it doesn't they're right-out hypocrites.

Deevo

you write

'the fundamental laws of physics prohibit it. ' no such thing as a law without a law giver. think!

Iam so glad that the Pharaoh system is still in action:) could you image a world with out:) well I can. Getting back, religious people are far happier, but at what cost? See if one thinks God will fix it all and you don't have to worry, that makes me worry.

God said " God will help the people, if the people can help themselves.

cactus

Cactus you write
'God said " God will help the people, if the people can help themselves.'

Which God said that? By the way if you think you are good enough to have a right standing with God without Christ you are badly mistaken. Humans have shown they are incapable of even breathing without God.

The phrase is often quoted to emphasize the importance of taking initiative.

The beliefs of Americans regarding this phrase and the Bible has been studied by Christian demographer and pollster George Barna of The Barna Group. To the statement "The Bible teaches that God helps those who help themselves"; 53% of Americans agree strongly, 22% agree somewhat, 7% disagree somewhat, 14% disagree strongly, and 5% stated they don't know. Of "born-again" Christians 68% agreed, and 81% of non "born-again" Christians agreed with the statement. In a February 2000 poll, 53% strongly agreed and 22% agreed somewhat that the Bible teaches the phrase. Of the 14 questions asked, this was the least biblical response, according to Barna. A poll in the late 1990s showed the majority (81%) believe the concept is taught by the Bible, another stating 82%.

It even topped a poll of the most widely known "Bible verse", despite the fact it is not stated there[14][15] 75% of American teenagers believe it is the central message of the Bible.

Barna critiques this evidence of Americans' unfamiliarity with the Bible, and believe the statement actually conflicts with the Bible's view of God's kindness towards people, none of whom deserve it – "grace". It "suggests a spiritual self-reliance inconsistent with Christianity" according to David Kinnaman, vice president of the Barna Research Group. Christian minister Erwin Lutzer argues there is some support for this saying in the Bible (2 Thessalonians 3:10, James 4:8), however much more often God helps those who cannot help themselves, which is what grace is about (Ephesians 2:4–5, Romans 4:4–5, Luke 18:9–14).

cactus

Continued....

The phrase has featured in United States popular culture. In a "Jaywalking" sketch on The Tonight Show, comedian host Jay Leno asked random people on the street to name one of the Ten Commandments. The most popular response (at least, as edited by the producers), was "God helps those who help themselves." Political commentator Bill O'Reilly employed the phrase, in responding to Jim McDermott who argued, "This is Christmas time. We talk about Good Samaritans, the poor, the little baby Jesus in the cradle and all this stuff. And then we say to the unemployed we won't give you a check to feed your family. That's simply wrong." O'Reilly argued for a more selective approach to unemployment benefits, and the importance of individual responsibility, concluding "while Jesus promoted charity at the highest level, he was not self-destructive. The Lord helps those who help themselves. Does he not?" Political comedian Stephen Colbert parodied him in response, concluding in character, "if this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we've got to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that he commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition; and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

Pretty well human, if you ask me:)

cactus

Dear Cactus,
I totally agree with every word of your post, I was appalled that some Republicans openly stated that welfare to the poor is a scam, how's that for the so-called religious?
But anyway, to each his own I guess.
NSB

But anyway, to each his own I guess. If each to his own was to continue, your excepting the currant climate of world thinking's.:)

Thank NSB, I'll take that it into consideration.

You have a great morning.

Iam off to bed:)

cactus.

darn its too early to argue with everyone
but jesus said that we are saved by grace alone

that works/deeds is how we will know
but further it is only by loving neighbour
ie doing for other..

he also said i must go
so he can come...who he was to be jesus didnt say
issiah suggested it would be him with a sword for a tongue

but jesus tongue spoke only of love grace
mahanouds tongue cut's many

yet despite the messengers
its by our works we be accorded gods mercies
not by our mesenger

think if it was as easy as saying jesus saves
then in theory we can serve satan..yet with loose lips we serve christ

yet the christ knoweth them not
cause he knows thy works

but the holy one [the father]..know us not only by our works
nor by our words..but what we chose to write large upon our heart

the charity we gave
the good we did

the gace mercy love we gave
not wether you served those SAYING their vile serves christs will

here are the pervert priests..FORMERLY within the christs house
saying do this do that..they ARE IN THE CHRISTS HOUSE

are these ... saved or forsaken?

Where do you get an unbiased opinion.

I belong to an overseas Charity doing work among orphans. They decided to do research among their sponsors to see what motivated their giving. In almost exclusively it was their Christian conviction to assist orphans, widows and fatherless; a principle taught in scripture.

Philo

Then what is the motivation for organisations like Doctors without Borders

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/aboutus/?ref=main-menu

Oxfam

http://www.oxfam.org/en/about/accountability/board

Save the Children

http://www.savethechildren.net/alliance/about_us/mission_vision/index.html

And many, many more secular charities which are not dominated by any religion Christian or otherwise?

http://www.humanism.org.uk/humanism/humanism-today/humanists-doing/charities

In addition, many people who are interested in charity work will often join religious led charities for the sake of helping others - therefore, not all members of your charity are in fact Christians.

Hey Noisy, I think there is Victim Compensation available to most children removed from home by state, I read an article awhile ago that mentioned very few actually apply for it or are told they are entitled to apply for it.

The Forgotten being more out of the ordinary run of the mill abuse children suffer here due to how it was done on a massive scale. We’re much more civilized now, they are abused and silenced through the system in place and the laws created to keep the public uninformed. A steady trickle of abused children instead of a flash flood is way easier to keep on the down low.

Funny how shocked these people are when they learn of past abuses yet the fact it continues to happen today under their administration doesn’t seem to give any of them so much as a twitch.

It is mostly all the same Church Charities we’ve always heard about doing same old thing to children removed from parents. Lots of profit in keeping kids – Loss of profit in keeping them safe.

I like individual Christians, just can’t bloody stand them in groups

Ammo:”In addition, many people who are interested in charity work will often join religious led charities for the sake of helping others - therefore, not all members of your charity are in fact Christians.”

But a lot of non-religious groups do ride on the govt lobbying coat tails of the Christians for their own benefit.

“Charity work” might need defining.

Goes back to individual Christian’s vs. Christian Admin I guess. In Aussie a Christian org can refuse to hire/recruit volunteer people. I don’t think a non-religious Business/Charity etc is allowed to discriminate.

In my book – The Book of Jewel - it states that; “love thy neighbor and it aint okay to keep ringing the peeps next door landlord until you get one you like.

Also; “Know who you are working for because the sins of the org are passed down to all that receiveth.

Hi Jewely,
You are right, in my view Religion is a personal thing, it just becomes horribly distorted when the individuals become groups.
I am a follower of Buddhism, it is not a religion, it is a way of life, which teaches kindness, understanding, content with what we have and acceptance of that which one cannot change....tis a good and gentle precept to enjoy life and embrace the teachings.
Better still it is such a good teacher for the individuals of this world. One doesn't have to be under the power of others, part company with promised offerings to the Church, and most of all, it does not teach hypocrisy.
Enjoy your day my friend,
Noisy

I like it Noisy – any belief type system thingi where one could perhaps become a follower by accident having never heard of it makes sense to me.

There are no 'nicer' Christians or Atheists, just individuals who will be judged by their own actions. In my experience involvement in charity work does not always reflect 'niceness'. It all depends on how these organisations are managed, what are the primary goals and efficacy.

Following on from other posters, watching some of the Republican candidates call for a ban on all social security payments and/or abolishing taxes was eye-opening. Some of the Conservative Right in the US certainly have a different mindset.

Do some of these presidential hopefuls really think Jesus would approve this approach? I don't pretend to know what the religious Right interpret from the Bible but surely this is not the way in a civilised society. It is libertarianism run amok with some of them, more worried about limitless rights to exploit others rather than what can be collectively achieved in everybody's interest.

There is certainly room to improve social welfare systems but banning them would be counterproductive and lead to far more problems than current concersn of rorting.

The most illuminating aspect of US religiosity to me, is that a considerable majority of them believe that the Bible teaches "God helps those who help themselves".

Which, of course, it does not

They then proceed to employ it as perpetual justification in their quest to enrich themselves at the expense of as many of their fellow-countrymen as possible. Who, of course, by not being in a position to help themselves, by definition must be a) godless, b) worthless and c) un-American.

Simple, really.