With this issue of the Boat-people / Asylum Seekers
ramping up and now leading virtually every news
report, it may be time for the remaining few sane
people to consider a real option to restrain this
emerging crisis.

Somebody somewhere in this political wilderness
should have the testacular fortitude to state the
bleeding obvious!.....Australia has signed the
United Nations Charter on Human Rights regarding
refugees (signed by members of a Government without
the issue ever being put to a Referendum, and
contrary to the wishes of many in the electorate),
however the Convention has been signed, and short of
unsigning (cancelling it), we have to accept the basic
aims of the Convention!

The methodology of the application of the Convention
should be changed from,... accepting every person who
considers themselves to be wronged, persecuted or
simply financial opportunists, who manage to "find"
the appropriate "fee" to illegally embark on a sea voyage
to our waters or shores, apparently expecting of course
upon arrival to be greeted with open arms, and then
allowed to take up residence and partake of the benefits
applicable to the average Tax-paying Australian,... to a more
realistic system of applying for "Refugee Status" in their
home country through the appropriate Embassy or Consulate,
and waiting their turn to be considered for acceptance.

Jumping onto a broken-down fishing boat to beat the queue
is NOT acceptable, and although sympathy should be given
to the plight of some of these people, we simply cannot
afford to give shelter and solace to each and every
down-trodden peasant and financial opportunist who considers
it his right to move a country more suitable to his desired
lifestyle.

The boats bringing these "illegals" into our waters should
be turned back and escorted out of our waters. If any attempt
to scuttle the subject boat is made, the survivors should be
charged and deported to their place of origin.

We cannot afford to keep accepting these people, whilst some
of our own are suffering from homelessness and the National indebtedness is soaring!

Charity begins at home!

How about we change Australia's name to...."Charitybeginsathome"

(That's sure to get the message across :)

Crackup,
It would be good if we could do what you say, but there is a problem!

If we cannot accurately identify the illegals, other countries won't take them back. Without proper identity we do not know where they originated.

So all we can do is discourage them from coming.

My suggestion is not to give them what they want and to make them wait 10 years, like in Africa, for processing. This means no permanent residence and no family reunion in Aus. They will stop trying.

The softer approach by this government has resulted in 5000 still in detention and about 200 deaths. Sometimes one has to be hard to be kind .

Hurrumph! Why oh why don't we use our useless subs to sink these boats before they get to our waters?

Bludgers! Trying to get to OUR nation.

WE were all born here, every one of us, and so deserve to live here.

It's not as if we'd made the treck and come from elsewhere, willy-nilly, is it?

NO, we belong here. It's OUR land, and to Hell with anyone else.

Hurrumph!

If Malaysia and Indonesia don't play ball with us with our reasonable demands, why, we've still got F111s in the hangars don't we?

Let's bomb these nations back to the stone age and take them over, filling them with boat people.

That's it! A regional solution, for US.

These Asian's on our door step came take them all.

Hurrumph!

Both Labor and Liberal parties have failed in asylum seeker policy, and both have pursued unsustainable and wreckless positions. The only way out of the current mess is to reinstate temporary protection visas, so that asylum seekers can be welcomed to Australia and offered temporary safe haven, then when it is safe to return to their homelands, they can return.

This position is the only principled position in this debate. It allows us to tackle the abuse of the concept of "asylum" by the left, who really mean permanent residence for anyone wanting to make their home in Australia. But it also allows to tackle the unprincipled xenophobia on the right, who have shown themselves willing to demonise vulnerable people in the quest for votes.

Asylum seekers are seeking asylum. They are not, ostensibly, seeking permanent residence. If they are found to be genuinely fleeing persectution, then they should be offered asylum until such time as it is safe to return home, then, they should return. A 2 year temporary protection visa, renewable for a further two years if conditions at home are not yet safe, is needed to restore some sanity into this issue.

Vern Hughes
Centre for Civil Society

Or we remedy the refugee convention to be able to more strongly deport anyone who poses a risk to us- regardless of their own refugee status- and then we impose some character tests to ensure we don't let in anyone who would cause problems.

That would solve all our problems.

Crackup, I don't think the politicians will take much notice of us.
However something like you suggest will inevitably come to pass.
Still further down the track as food gets scarce and expensive the
poorer people will no longer be able to afford the air fare to
Indonesia let alone the boat fee to Australia.

As the world economies start contracting there may well be large
movements of hungry people, but these people will only have their feet
for transport and what is happening in Somalia & Kenya will be the
typical scene.

World growth is now close to zero, some countries have small amounts
of growth, like Australia, and some like the US & Europe are having
difficulty getting above zero. China and India between them are
using most of the worlds growth.

Oil is becoming more expensive because the places where it is being
found are harder to work in, such as far below the ocean floor or in
risky political locations.
With more expensive fuel the cost of food production & transport
will increase making large populations very poor.
Where it gets applied is that the fuel bill takes up a larger
proportion of GDP, finally reaching a point where nothing is left for
other uses and contraction sets in.

This what happened in the US causing the sub prime housing collapse.

Indonesia passed peak oil some years back and is no longer an oil
exporter but an importer competing with Australia in the Asian fuel market.
Indonesian population before the oil age was significantly less
than it is now. As their oil production further depletes and import
prices rise their agriculture prices will rise because they will not
be able to produce enough food for their now 200 + million people.
They may be forced towards Australia.
The world's population has risen to 6+ billion on the back of cheap
oil. As oil gets scarce and expensive it will not be possible to
support such a large world population.
What this will do to immigration I leave to your imagination.

Growth always follows the same pattern, it doesn't matter whether you're dealing with population growth or commodity prices the cycles are almost identical.
http://www.cyclesresearchinstitute.org/cycles-research/general-dewey.shtml

When the Ancient Money Power Elites talk about "sustainable growth" they really mean they want to keep growth on an ever upward trajectory,they don't mean living within one's means.
The Ancient Money Power Elites know that in the end their way of life will consume the entire planet so they have but a few options.
-Move growth around in an endless shell game with some regions lying fallow while others become temporary "Tigers".
-Expand outward into the galaxy.
-De populate the planet to extend their time frame.
-Release a new form of physics and a new energy source which they can control and monopolise.

The planets aligned in about 1680 and White people took off like a rocket and we had another big boost in about 1950,the Elites had to keep us occupied with endless conquests, revolutions and wars or...who knows, we might have wiped them out, or booted them off the planet.
The hubbub over 2012 and the Arab and African risings are the Elites trying to keep in front of those groups, to keep them pinned down because they are coming to a peak in their astrological cycle and they will begin to change in some way, as we did.

I don't like the term "Illuminati" but these Money Elites are very old secret societies following ancient sciences like astrology and alchemy, they have some big Bee in their bonnet over 2050 and their new world order, all this other amazing stuff we're seeing is part of their show.

Jay of Melbourne:

Now, methinks it is becoming very close to AFL grand final in Melbourne. I have, in the past, always found you to be a very rational person!

...I believe the whole process of immigration needs the same microscopic examination the illegals are currently (not enjoying)!

...When a family can enter Australia by visa for the period covering the education of a child, for example, why come illegally by boat? With so many opportunities available to “scam” entry into Australia, what is the problem with this lot?

...Do what the Chinese do, enter into this country under the guise of a business visa, and sell shells in the local shopping mall for a couple of years, then become eligible for Australian citizenship as a successful business operator. The list is endless!

...If I could get a message to the boat people, it would be to get on board the real gravy train and enter this country by the many and varied (Available) openings presented by the immigration department; save the Australian taxpayers billions of their hard-won dollars please.

...Websites are available to assist you to choose a “scam” most suited to your circumstances!

Diver Dan.
Oh it be, it just be.
I'm only pointing out that these cycles are largely inevitable,that terrestrial events are driven by offworld or cosmic cycles, populations go up and they go down, resources wax and wane, things grow, they mature and decline then start growing again.
There will be an influx of refugees then it will peak and taper off, 'tis the way of things, ditto the enthusiasm for refugee rights, it's probably reached it's peak and now is declining i poularity.
Astrology is the original science, it's the fundamental way of understanding ourselves which is common to all races, it stands to reason that if you had elitist groups intent on global hegemony they'd be occulting such arts so they could monopolise them.

Jay of Melbourne …Part One…

...Well, not being a being tending to lend himself to the non-being of being in the nether world of Astrology, I am not as certain as yourself, Astrology can be used as a convincing alternative to the more conventional and acceptable methods of prediction available to us to determine the direction of history.

...Above, I examined the ease of conventional means of entry into this country; the eternal question arises, why illegals persist in the methods of bludgeoning Australians into accepting them as boat arrivals, when the bleeding obvious suggests, (due to natural cynicism towards any hope, myself, that honesty will prevail), illegals have at their fingertips, the means to scam their way through any barriers the immigration department (pretend) in install, as an impediment to ingress to Australian shores, of anybody.

And Jay of Melbourne,…Part two…

I would be interested in your comments from a more earthly perspective, since I hold your opinion in such high esteem, (and at the same time, cast a curse over your future happiness, with the wand of jealousy, that you (assumed) live at this moment within the vicinity of the MCG and in this coincidental moment of history, of the AFL grand-final 2011:… But onwards:…And to elaborate on your hypothesis of “off world and/or cosmic cycles applicable to outcomes of our “p#ssy” and manipulated, (mercilessly, at the moment, by the un-auspicious and hyper-redundant robotic manipulator, Bob Brown, in company with his red headed angel of death, Julia Gillard, (and doesn’t Julia Gillard believe in wearing stockings)?) small and insignificant lives here on earth; and in particular in terra firma Australia, where we fulfil our duty towards smothering obvious realities of political mayhem, by the sacrifice of panic, overlaid by calm exterior displays from the ABC TV, with its perpetual architectural backdrop, Parliament house Canberra; intended to resemble, assumable, the stability of the Australian Way of fairness and Justice to all, but failing with such misery, and representing as more a reminder of the Roman coliseum; the window-less relic, teetering under the gaze of the holy Roman see: And I must concede some ground here to the support of your belief in Astrology, this may be the sign, the euphemistic symbol, for which you and I both search; a sure sign of the rightful inclusion of power to be given by the Holy Roman See, to the very venerable Roman Catholic, with the ears of a rabbit and cunning of a fox, Tony Abbott: The ABC are onto it!

Ahhh Ha, I see Dan and Arjay are both cyclists.
>I'm only pointing out that these cycles are largely inevitable

However, except for small local oscillations, the cycles are over and
it is now time for the long descent. So much of our economies are
driven by oil and its derivities that nothing, or a range of energies,
can be developed in time to avoid the descent of energy consumption.
As someone said, there will only be overdeveloped countries or those that will never develop.

So don't fall off your bike, you will need them.

Don't you think it's fascinating that many of the Muslim asylum seekers emanate from countries from which the West has long derived its oil supplies. Obviously the infrastructure was put in place to extract the oil from the ground and to distribute it to the developed world...but the infrastructure to help people live rewarding lives was overlooked.

Or we have the example of Iraq, where infrastructure was in place, but was obliterated by a coalition of Western countries.

Seems somewhat like poetic justice that these people are now flocking to the West.

*but the infrastructure to help people live rewarding lives was overlooked.*

Hang on Poirot. If the West uses Western technology and capital
to develop a resource, then the West is seemingly exploiting the
third world. If the West gets involved beyond that in countries
affairs, the West is seemingly sticking its nose in other countries
business. The West can't win, in the eyes of the critic.

What really seems to be happening is that when the US military moves
into places like Iraq and Afghanistan, they bring with them and
spend huge amounts of US $, commonly earned by the locals in one
form or another. Suddenly some of them have enough money to
pay people smugglers, which they could not have afforded before.

We as soft touch suckers, (or rather some within our community) fall for it all

It is a bit like what Yabby says, but the rulers of those countries
hold most of the wealth for themselves but do feed some crumbs to the
population. Just enough to stop them rising in revolt.
However, things are changing, The North African nations are in oil
depletion and as income falls imported food has to rise in price.
Their populations have risen above what their land can feed & now that
food prices are no longer subsidised as much the population is revolting.

I think this is a more accurate reason for the rise in immigration from
moslem countries.

@ Diver Dan,
Now that's just silly! Growing up the only AFL spoken of in our house was the Anti Football League, my Dad thought Keith Dunstan's annual footy burning was the very height of wit.
I was making a point about cycles in relation to resource scarcity, population growth etc as they impact upon population movement.
Astrology was (is) the science of empire, it was used by kings to plot their moves toward hegemony, it stands to reason that imperialists today would also be exploiting those arts.

We cannot afford to keep accepting these people, whilst some
of our own are suffering from homelessness and the National indebtedness is soaring!

Charity begins at home!
Posted by Crackcup, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 9:02:12 AM

It speaks volumes for me.......and just to put in a thinking point:)............"When your children leave school, where are they going to go?

And answer the question this time, and don't run away!

What are the White home-breed offspring not up to the rest of the world is?

Well tell me this is not true.

cactus

Yabby.

Your comment about the U.S. moving into places like Iraq and Afghanistan and spending huge amounts of U.S. dollars is spectacularly crass.

Shall we have a peek at Iraq in particular? Are you telling me that because the U.S. bombed this more advanced Arab country back into the middle-ages that it did them a favour? Are you saying that because the U.S. and its allies bombed Iraq's infrastructure into the ground, that it should be congratulated for its attempts to replace some or it. What about the millions of people who were forced to flee as refugees to neighbouring countries and destinations overseas? What about the advanced educational and medical facilities that were destroyed? What about the disease and malnutrition that occurred in the wake of the U.S. invasion?

Yeah, Yabby...but we shouldn't forget the soothing injection of U.S. bucks into the equation, should we....despicable!