Julia Gillard and her Govt is not only to embarassment to themselves but to the whole of Australia in the international arena.Everything that they touch,turns to poison.

Julia Gillard talks to the eclectorate like an infants headmistress addressing 5 yr olds.She is totally divorced from reality and constantly makes decisions that hamper our national security and productivity.

My daughter probably echoed the sentiments of many women,"Why did she have to be our first female Prime Minister?" Julia for many women was an utter disappointment.

Why has our country such a low standard of politician? It is not just a matter of money.Quality people have higher aspirations than just amassing wealth and power.There used to be a much more noble and deeper aspiration of wanting to advance the public good as in the Jack Lang era.Now we have public/private contracts that seem to milk the tax payer even more.

We as tax payers are obiviously not getting value for money,

but arjay/mate...what else can be expected from juliar
the moralising athiest..who passes laws on those her mates dont like

like fathers..getting 1200 for two weeks paternal leave
[the carrot]..with the stick i mentioned at bellies topic
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4680&page=0

that refers to that other topic
[re them fathers affected by the OTHER bits of the carrot
to wit the stick]..the media ISNT TAL:KING ABOUT

ie clever spin
selective popularism
expressing the homo hate of fathers
and the moralising of an unwed athiest not mother

yesterday i noted it allready has 75 posts?
today it runs 10 pages

[all fathers
AFFECTED by the stick UNDER THE CARROT!]

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12558&page=0

the initial aerticle was this one
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=12558

but i had to pass on reading them
been there done that

but then
I READ THE NEWS LAST NIGHT..and ONLY heard ONLY of the carrot

ie NOT THE OTHER SIDE
ie those
NOT represented by govt..of any level

it all relates

they wanted more woman in the two party parlement

[as you know they are loyal...to the party line...
as well as easilly sold to green things..

and fighting off them horrible men..
yet bailing out the true basssturds bankers/miners

that made their lives hell..

men like you and me
that are too opinionated
and must be ignored and oppressed at all levels

cause to an unwed homo greenie..and a not a mum
[numb]..we all look the same

ie must be ignored and cast out
and thats how it is

edited

i hope im strong enough not to buy anymore we acces
no dodo..no posting..that will make them feel better

even if it makes me feel worse

im over giving a damm
run out of things i care to explain
to ignorants with carrot/stick by spin adgendas..

only upon those
allready over abused..

and too busy
trying to pay the EXTRA costs
to give a dammm..to the damm spin..anymore..evermore

she hasnt lowerd fem assperations
she is fullfilling athiest/moralistic homo green asssperations
by spin and name calling and extra taxes..for the young fathers

then generouse bailouts
and subsidy for the ol boys club

While excepting Ajay's right to his opinion I will try to put some balance in to a subject that needs exploration.
Gillard before Rudd, even before her rise in the Parliament ,was a far different person.
Once of the true left, she fought in her legal role for workers in need.
She was tough and hard, respected by her faction the left.
Beginning her rise in Parliament she had guts and fire, she had ability's too.
She may have fell for the fraud that was and is, Mark Latham, joining that gang of miss fits Him, Crean, and Fitzgibbon, she switched sides left to right.
She remained a tough street fighter and once, not now, trounced Abbott in the house.
Gillard won power, nothing will ever convince me, ever, she was not in part a reason for Rudd's failures.
I said, often,she can not be trusted.
Today remaining of that younger Gillard is the toughness, but it works against her.
She, even now is saying she is the only one to lead, and she did not eat that humble pie.
She DID NOT LIE! she never knew a hung Parliament would come.
BUT SHE NEVER SAID sorry!
To eat that pie before her,even if baked unfairly, would have killed the lie used against her.
Both Bishops, are as unloved, maybe more, but Gillard, like them, is not killing womens chances of leading us.
Any look will see Julia's strength, is her weakness, men wanted that sorry, men will not vote for her, and for a time, not forever the majors will not risk a female candidate, but we will again have a female Prime Minister.

Is Arjay saying a female PM should reflect female ideals. I say she is tough as iron, and why shouldn't she be. A court decision dosen't change her toughness. Now Abbott wants to be friendly, at the same time saying the court decission doesn't effect Naru. Maybe these gatecrashers should be processed here, under our conditions, and then deported, to their last port of call.

Arjay, it's not just Gillard. The whole EMILY's List crew have damaged the credibility of any future female parliamentarians, especially on the ALP side. Hardly surprising, considering the reason they were selected was to do with their ideology rather than their competence.

We have long accepted that ALP members will come from the Union leadership and this continues. However, as blue collar unions lose membership and power, the white collar unions are gaining it, especially the various public sector unions. These unions are dominated by women and the women are universally members of EMILY's List. As a result, gender has become a central issue in all sorts of discussions that have little to do with gender. Funds are diverted to female services that should be used to fund services for men that have a much higher demonstrable need, in areas such as healthcare and education.

The 8 year gap in life expectancy between men and women has not been addressed in any significant way and is never on the table for discussion.

Of course, Family Law and child Support are redistributive mechanisms designed to maximise the take from fathers to pay for mothers who no longer want to be with the fathers. The concept of mutuality of responsibility is anathema to those who have spent their whole adult life as cosetted Princesses of preferment.

As long as female Parliamentarians see themselves as women first and Australians second, they can never be anything but problematic. The ability to see issues from more than one side is a fundamental one and something that is not possible for our current crop of affirmative actionistas.

579" I say she's tough as iron." You mistake toughness for stubborn stupidity.Julia might have a good memory but her cognitive disconsanance knows no bounds.

David Pembethy reckons her forced resignation will bring on an election because the independants have their agreement with her.Are these agreements in writing or based on a handshake.Would not such an agreement be made involving all of Caucus?

We have to bring on an election before the CO2 tax is implemented since I don't trust the Coalition either.This all all about corporate control of our Govts.10% of the CO2 tax is to go to the UN for their world Govt.Did we vote for that?

Belly sings the praises of the wild west woman, of his dreams. A tiger for 'the wurkers' and honest as the day is long.

Hardly. The hagiography by Jacqueline Kent on Gillard is worth a read, but first read Christine Wallace's opinion on it:

"The Making of Julia Gillard provides a plain-vanilla account of Gillard’s progress from Gillard’s point of view and an uncomplicated description of some arcane aspects of Labor’s factional history. If the truth is in the surface of things – as André Gide remarked – then Kent has done a good job of description without analysis. That will be fine with most of the people involved in this book, none more so than Gillard herself." (http://www.themonthly.com.au/books-christine-wallace-other-biography-jacqueline-kent039s-quotthe-making-julia-gillardquot-2015).

Of course, Wallace is an ALP machinery part, so be warned.

However, my reading of Gillard in this hagiography showed her to be the shallowest of people imaginable. Dedicated to the ALP machine above everything else. Having affairs with rightwingers all the time, while pretending to be 'left'.

Belly is correct, she did back Latham, the monster from Hell, but only because it provided a way forward for her while he was there.

His politics were always as credible as hers though, so they deserved each other.

I think it unfair to taint 'women' with Gillard, or to expect Gillard to be 'a woman'. Such thinking is silly, misdirected and worthless.

Why not expect all politicians, male and female, to be credible worthwhile people, and leave gender out of it?

Gillard is neither credible nor worthwhile, but she is not alone in our nations parliaments is she?

These places of privileged ignorance abound with men, many of whom show no signs of ability either.

True to a degree Blue Cross but Labor at least should have found a woman half credible and intelligent enough to hold the position pf PM.

TBC:"I think it unfair to taint 'women' with Gillard, or to expect Gillard to be 'a woman'. Such thinking is silly, misdirected and worthless."

Not at all. Gillard is a founding member of Emily's List and has gained special treatment as a result.

All the ALP women are members of Emily's list with the exception of those who refuse to support "pro-choice", which is a primary ideology.

http://www.emilyslist.org.au/our-mps

Kate Lundy
Gai Brodtmann
Sharon Grierson
Julie Owens
Tanya Plibersek
Janelle Saffin
Jill Hall
Sharon Bird
Justine Elliot
Trish Crossin
Jan Mc Lucas
Claire Moore
Kirsten Livermore
Anne McEwen
Penny Wong
Carol Brown
Julie Collins
Lisa Singh
Julia Gillard
Catherine King
Jenny Macklin
Laura Smyth
Louise Pratt
Melissa Parke

State Parliamentarians

Katy Gallagher ACT
Kirin MacDonald ACT
Mary Porter ACT
Linda Burney NSW
Noreen Hay NSW
Sonia Hornery NSW
Christine Robertson NSW
Penny Sharpe NSW
Carmel Tebbutt NSW
Lynda Voltz NSW
Helen Westwood NSW
Jane Aagaard NT
Alison Anderson NT
Delia Lawrie NT
Malarndirri McCarthy NT
Marion Scrymgour NT
Anna Bligh QLD
Desley Boyle QLD
Jan Jarratt QLD
Jo-Ann Miller QLD
Lindy Nelson-Carr QLD
Rachel Nolan QLD
Desley Scott QLD
Christine Smith QLD
Judy Spence QLD
Barbara Stone QLD
Karen Struthers QLD
Frances Bedford SA
Lyn Breuer SA
Giles Gago SA
Robyn Geraghty SA
Stephanie Key SA
Grace Portolesi SA
Jennifer Rankine SA
Gay Thompson SA
Lara Giddings TAS
Michelle O'Byrne TAS
Jacinta Allan VIC
Liz Beattie VIC
Candy Broad VIC
Lily D'Ambrosio VIC
Kaye Darveniza VIC
Joanne Duncan VIC
Maree Edwards VIC
Jane Garrett VIC
Judith Graley VIC
Danielle Green VIC
Jill Hennessy VIC
Natalie Hutchins VIC
Sharon Knight VIC
Jenny Mikakos VIC
Lisa Neville VIC
Bronwyn Pike VIC
Jaala Pulford VIC
Fiona Richardson VIC
Gayle Tierney VIC
Sue Ellery WA
Carol Martin WA
Sally Talbot WA
Lisa Baker WA
Janine Freeman WA
Alannah Mactiernan WA
Linda Savage W

Can you ppoint to an equivalent group of men who identify primarily as men and only secondarily as MPs?

I actually give Julia Gillard alot more credit then many others
on OLO do. Her real problem is the division in her own party
and having to concede to the Greens to form Govt. That has put
her between a rock and a hard place on things like the carbon
tax and the boat people question.

Its women such as Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann which I am
really nervous about. Woe betide the world, if one of them should
gain office.

Forgive me Arjay, but I am unaware of any women in the ALP suitable to be elevated to PM.

That said, I despair over the men too.

And what/whom from the Coalition? Julie Bishop (hahahaha) or Sophie, a female version of Abbott-Heffernan?

Perhaps you can assist with a few nominees?

Re an election, the independants have said they would continue to
support the government if Gillard it tipped out.
Of course to do otherwise would put them out of a job and parliament.

I do not think we will go to an early election, we may go all the way
to early 2004. I think it can go for a few months over the three years.

From what I read, growth is very low and that probably means increasing
unemployment. This will upset many of the rusted on and may change
their vote.
It will not matter what party gets elected, unemployment will increase
but later on there will be increasing opportunities for manufacturing.
I just cannot see Gillard ever understanding what the British govt
has found on future fuel, even though they are like rabbits in the headlights.
Yes, I don't expect the opposition to be any better on that matter either.

Antiseptic, do ALP men ever join this funding source too?

I don't doubt for a minute that ALP pre-selection requires certain hoops to be jumped through, including signing up to this 'list' in order to get funding if you are a woman- perhaps Belly knows the details?

But maybe men do not feel they have to identify as 'men' given the domination of society by men?

I am not sure what point you are making though, so am not arguing against you- do advise what your 'Emily' beef is, please.

Gillard has not lowered feminine aspirations any more than male leaders or male politicians have lowered masculine aspirations and we have had a lot more male leaders (some good some bad) over the centuries. We really have to get over this obsession with gender.

I don't care what gender a PM is as long as they are competent and fair. The criticism towards the PM is overdone despite some poor choices such as the Carbon Tax which was the similar to Howard's undoing when he failed to take WorkChoices to the election and sprung it on an unsuspecting electorate without warning. Nobody was bringing up male aspirations then albeit he was not the first male PM. But why all the pressure on a female to be any different from her male counterparts?

Unfortunately the poor choices of politicians of all stripes tend to overshadow some of the positive reforms or programs, such as in the area of health and disability.

How is Abbott any better in raising masculine aspirations? I can't see a difference.

Let's stop looking between the legs and start focussing on the top half of the body - the brain.

Belly "Gillard before Rudd, even before her rise in the Parliament, was a far different person."

Yes Belly

but you should know, she being a socialist is merely showing her other face

that is why she has a live-in hairdresser

to save of presentatioan costs

the makeup is twice as much for the two-faced as it is for the single one

TBC you have been unfair with me here.
Go back to my posts the morning after she was placed on her blood stained throne.
I have never trusted her, or her team of grubs that put her there.
In 2007, I was riding high in my job, my boss was human, he was head of an IR group.
We heard Gillard talk, pre election, on IR, she is never will be, a person I trust or want in power.
If looking for a cleaner in any union or Labor office, she would need to produce extremely good proof before she got her hands on a mop and bucket from me.
Labor, long before the greens or conservatives had good women in its ranks, we will get one one day,not soon.
Col need I address this every day?
SOCIALISTS! like a fixed bayonet on a pop gun you charge at any non conservative with that taunt.
You are aware are you? the year is 2011?
My regards Col, if it be your wish I can write a short list of insults with meaning for you.
TBC? fair go bloke!Gillard is as loved by me as Maggy thatcher not at all.

We all know that if one woman screws up - all women are at fault. OLO has taught me so.

TBC:"maybe men do not feel they have to identify as 'men' given the domination of society by men?"

But men don't "dominate society". Some men hold some senior positions due to the fact that they tend to stay at the job more continuously for longer and to put the time in that senior positions demand. They are not selected because they are men, but because they have experience and a reputation for sound judgement. Women who have the same do as well, without any need for special treatment. Gail Kelly is the shining example and there are lots of others.

Women dominate the lives of their men, by and large, not the other way around. "Happy wife, happy life". This is not a trivial effect.

Most women know that most men feel good about taking care of the women in their lives and vice versa. We're allowing the strident minority to "frame the debate" into a gender fight that doesn't even exist for most people. That's dishonest squeaky-wheelism, which has been a hallmark of Feminist political activism.

And no, ALP men are not eligible for EMILY's List funding or mentoring. They are subject to the power of the Emily's List organisers to mobilise for or against them on cross-factional, genderist lines.

Yes, there are lousy male politicians, but they got there for other reasons than their gender. Therefore, gender is not a big issue for them, while many ALP women especially have made it their central and to some extent exclusive informing factor. Therefore, it is relevant to point out the influence of the group that put them there in determining the policy failures that have caused the decline of the ALP.

Dear Anti,

"Anyone who says he can see through women
is missing a lot!"
(Groucho Marx).

And as for our PM being "two-faced,"
gotta laugh.

"If I was two-faced, would I be wearing
this one?"
(Abraham Lincoln).

Still I suppose it's better being two-faced
then looking into the eyes of Tony Abbott
and getting the feeling that someone else
is driving!

Lexi

Of course Gillard is two-faced. ALL women are two-faced conniving witches bent on world supremacy, sub...something- or-other men and using them as sperm cows, how does it go Anti?

Whatever. Some kind of feminist take over. Not many people know this (and don't tell Col Rouge) but Maggie Thatcher? .... a feminist - she hid it under her hairdo - in fact I think weapons of mass destruction are hidden in that hair. Sssssh. Don't tell anyone.

If you're going to try to "frame the debate" ladies, I'd suggest you try to avoid complete inanity. Some inanity seems unavoidable, given your history...

Dear Ammonite,

What would men be without women,
Scarce, - mighty scarce!

As for Margaret Thatcher?
She said:

"The woman's mission is not to enhance
the masculine spirit, but to express the
feminine; hers is not to preserve a
man-made world, but to create a human
world by the infusion of the feminine
element into all of its activities."

Back on topic - Has our PM really
lowered feminine aspirations?
Hardly. She's the PM! And as the
old adage states - "Women who seek
to be equal to men - lack ambition!"

Lexi

>> What would men be without women,
Scarce, - mighty scarce! <<

But we can keep a few as pets can't we?

Dear Ammonite,

Only if they have a chocolate penis that
shoots out money!

Well, I can't swallow that!

Dear Ammonite,

Then you'll never be satisfied.

Yes Belly, I do understand that you have never supported Gillard, and that is based on her politics not her gender, and good on you for that too.

There seems to be a fair bit of patently anti-women misogynist chit-chat here from others though.

Here is the EMILY List strategic plan:
http://www.emilyslist.org.au/images/stories/pdf/Constitution/Strategic_Plan_2008-2010.pdf

It seems to be similar to a trades union group seeking to assist trades unionists into parliament, or a farmers group supporting the political ambitions of farmers, or a business group and so on.

I saw no mention of the denunciation of men, the stealing of men's children (?), or the destruction of 'the missus' in those marriages (?) where the imbalance of power still has women called 'girls', where the tea is on the table by 5.30 pm., and don't call it dinner please, although I doubt any from EL would allow themselves to be called 'the missus' or eat tea.

Whatever ill-will I feel towards Gillard, it has nothing to do with her gender.

It is absolute Tommyrot to claim Gillard has queered the pitch for other women, any more than a very poorly performing Bligh has done that in Qld.

Their politics, one of appeasing the Liberal voters and leaders before addressing either their own 'general' side of politics or a vast number of ALP members and die-hard voters, like Belly, are the issue.

Let us not forget, that the last ALP PM was SO bad and SO loathed within and without the ALP that HE was dumped.

Yes, HE was dumped, it was not a not HER that was dumped, and surely that is a new low for any political party?

Personally, I don't think Gillard should step down but she should sack her failed immigration minister (and quite a few others too) and set about creating a humane and intelligent policy to deal with refugees, and start to call them that too.

To me, Gillard does appear to latch onto the next shiny-thing offered to her and I do not see any signs of imagination or vision.

TBC

You are too kind.

Belly is very much about gender and would probably hold a different opinion if Gillard was a "mum". Apparently having kids renders one ignorant in Belly's world.

>> At least we know true shock jocks slants, the danger is far more from uninformed MUMS <<

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4663&page=0#122867

As for your POV, concur entirely. Hoping Gillard resists the temptation to change the law as Abbott is offering and can remain in office until the end of this electoral cycle. By then, the world will have moved on lot from the necessity of slowing pollution (carbon tax leading to ETS) to the value that many boat people have provided to Australia, from the Vietnamese to date.

All we have learned from Gillard thus far is that women are as fallible as men. But then, we already knew that. As Pelican stated, it is time we took gender out of assessing a person's capabilities. We are not expecting Gillard to load trucks any more than we would John Howard.

TBC/Antiseptic I support women in Parliament.
We have some great ones right now, one is wed, to another woman, and would make a great PM.
but no Emily's list, no must have 40% of either sex.
Must have, ONLY the best and brightest candidate ALWAYS.
Now, you blokes! ace it up ok? every woman ever born was/is wonderful if you do not agree ask Ammonite.
Wish the loverly Lady's would stop planning how to get the boy Friend in to the house while the hubby is at work.
Fathers day was total confusion in some country villages.

I see what you mean Ammonite.

Belly, please, are you suggesting the male brain is kept in the trousers and its geographical location shapes its singular role?

Surely, it takes two to Tango?

Particularly in the marital arts department?

With some men Blue Cross it is true.Some men have one half of their brain connnected to their penis and the other half for thinking,but unfortunately not enough blood to do both at the same time.

Julia Gillard is really an strange personality.She neither has real male or female attributes.It scares me that such an ill defined person has so much power.

I personally have not heard the issue of gender come into any pro or anti Gillard discussion. So do I believe the aspirations of women have been aided or hindered by Gillards failings and her patronising contempt for the majority of the electorate, no I don’t. But many have said (verbatim)"I hate that bitch, but then again upon reflection just as many have said to me of Rudd, "I hate that prick.

Except for some women I believe men understand that you have to be a "prick" or a "bitch" to survive in the party system. Mere mortals who do not sit in Caucus or on the boards of big companies really could not envisage or understand the ruthless nature of governance, and their expectation is that these folk at some point must relate to the masses, and thereby them, but they are wrong. Some of the most ruthless and character demolishing incidents I have ever witnessed was in these quorums.

Of Gillards inherent female understanding and nurturing, I give you her statement to the Caucus re a rise in the old age pension, “give them nothing, they don’t vote for us anyway”, what a girl, gonads of a Chianina bull.

Interesting article that may appeal:

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/gillards-gender-still-too-hard-to-ignore/

Lexi and Ammonite, I haven't had such a good laugh for ages when I read your naughty discussion about the chocolate appendage!
Lol !

I don't think Julia has lowered feminine aspirations at all.
The mere fact that a majority group of mainly male politicians in the Labour Party chose a woman for the top job is enough for most feminists and females in this country.

So the feminist horse has already bolted...

What I am upset about is that she didn't choose an all female cabinet.
Maybe if she had done that, she wouldn't be in the mess she is in at the moment : )

Dear Suze,

So glad that you understood our having fun
with words. And the fact that it was meant
to be facetious. And I agree with you about
our PM. Lets hope that she continues to push
ahead with her agenda. Since the election the
government has steered 116 bills through
Parliament.

Its just amazing.....The First Female Prime Minister and the male DOGS are barking....Yeah....common! You ugly basters. Your in the best country in the world...hello.....every c..t or boat rat wants risk all to get here.........Are you people thinking right? you winge and you winge......and you cant do any better.

I dont want to call the looser card...........but your all coming close.

Give the Woman some support! I cant believe you females are that............I cant even say it! The lady has the guts!....and what have you got? Yeah.....safety behind your little key board.

Some of you make me sick. Talk about making this country strong...................you pr.cks cant even think as one.

There,s only some of us are strong....and we make NO mistakes on what matters here.

Come together Australia! or just piss off, and stop making out you care.

Now, Get up and go to your bath room mirror, and tell me what you see?

I will tell you, because your band ugly, you don't want to see:)

You have NO power in yourselves to anything, Right! I know, some of what Ive seen in todays world, makes me.....and sad you where waiting for, right? No its you my friend....its you.

Gillard...not a very strong name...I know....but who out of all you Australian pussies cant do better?.........Come on! Which one of you can do better?

Yeah! that's right.....just a country full of bitches, And not one man standing.

When the Australian works as one, you know where to find me.

Have a nice day.

Cactus

Good one Lexi.

But Gillard remains a dud, with her personal political trajectory so far, 'policies' she has created so far even before becoming PM, and her performance to date as PM.

Rudd was more of the same, with both representing the 'new style' ALP that has no idea where it came from and trying hard not to go where it is destined to go. Obscurity and oblivion, as a meaningful 'leftish' political party. Not that is has ever been 'left wing' anyway.

Gillard is not unique, is what I mean. She comes from the damaged mold (mould?) of the 21st century ALP ambition-without-purpose, or maybe ALP-without-conscience-or-sense-of-history-and-future?

And, let us engage in conjecture for a moment.

Gillard goes, a 'man' takes over- who could it be? Not Swan, Belly's mate, Shortarse? Maybe.

Smith from WA, to shore up that Tory inclined vote?

Rudd, to claim back Qld (who suffers from a Hobson's Choice with a dud Bligh(t) or an equally dud Cando Campbell and might not want to be faced with another Hobson's).

Running out here, so it goes over to the Sheila's for a try.

Macklin, who has failed in every effort with her ALP Invasion of the NT?

Roxson? With a failed health policy.

Plibersek? Hardly. She WAS the minister for the status of women Lexi, and produced Sweet FA during her time there.

Ellis? hahaha might as well propose Hanson-Young as her.

Men, women, there is no 'overabundance' of talent is there?

This is an 'organic' meltdown of an old (and tired) political party, and I am rather enjoying it. What WILL happen?

Who knows, but whatever it is won't work, that much is for sure, because we are all so cynical.

Even if Jesus, Muhammad and Buddha came back to lead the ALP, no one would believe a word they said.

Lexi if you want Global Governance of Bob Brown and the Greens,you'd better make sure you and your children are up in the top 0.1% of the population,otherwise you won't fit the plan of the elites.

10% of our carbon taxes are for Bush's/Cheney's new World Order.With advancing robotics and computers,humans are now considered to be a burden on the planet.

Zibigniew Brezezinski,last yr," In the past it was easier to control a million people than kill them.Today it is infiniety easier to kill a million people than control them." Zibig was the chief foreign policy advisor to Jimmy Carter.He still has great influence over Obama.

William Holdren is the science advisor to Obama and has similar views.
Environmentalism is being used to justify a Global Govt which Bob Brown submits to.Have you been asked to vote for this? Adolph Hitler also used environmentalism to justify his agenda.Also note that Maurice Strong Billionaire the ex-secretary to the UN wants the world population reduced to half a billion along with that Lunatic Prince Charles.

It is an easy justification.Too many people destroying the planet and we need a few elites to take control for the greater good.It is happening right now and Gillard and the Greens are criminally complicit in this overthrow of democracy.

*What I am upset about is that she didn't choose an all female cabinet.
Maybe if she had done that, she wouldn't be in the mess she is in at the moment : )*

Nah Suze, they'd all be knitting whilst they bitched about one
another :) Go to any pub and watch what happens, when a younger,
more attrative female walks in. If looks could kill, there would
not be too many females left. Fact is that other females are a
bigger threat to women, then any man.

Cactus must be joking.Give the women some support.J Gillard " No Govt I lead will bring in a carbon tax." Wayne Swan."We will not bring in a carbon tax,it is Coalition scaremongering."

Treacherous,treasonous liars both of them.This is not democracy.You are just trying to twist the argument to make it look like prejudice against women by men.That is called obfuscation which makes you no better that Juliar.

TBC:"It seems to be similar to a trades union group seeking to assist trades unionists into parliament, or a farmers group supporting the political ambitions of farmers, or a business group and so on."

Or a church group that exists to promote the interests of the faithful and excludes all who don't subscribe to every piece of dogma. Think of the Exclusive Brethren. Remember the furore when it was suggested they had donated to support the Howard Government?

This is not equivalent to a Union or a business group. It is a faction within the ALP in all but name, possibly the most powerful faction of all. It deliberately seeks to split the aspirations of men and women. It is divisive and it operates behind the scenes, in a somewhat covert manner. It includes nearly every ALP woman as a member.

It is at least as powerful as the Catholic church once was within the Party and no more accountable. I would not be at all surprised to see at some time in the future a DLP-type schism within the ALP based on gender rather than religion, with the EL faction going their own way. Perhaps it'll be called the WLP. Or the FLP.

TBC:"Let us not forget, that the last ALP PM was SO bad and SO loathed within and without the ALP that HE was dumped."

He was selected for a lack of factional alignment. He had no power base. He was an easy target and he made himself easier by failing to align with the Right which is where he really belongs.

His position was nothing to do with gender. gillard's is everything to do with it. Big difference.

Otherwise, I tend to agree with most of what you've said. Interesting times indeed.

I don't think PM Gillard was lying when she said "No Carbon Tax--".
I think she meant it and only changed her mind when Bob Brown put the
PMship on the line with the CO2 Tax as a condition.

To my mind that was worse than lying, she in fact sold her soul to the
green devil. It suggests to me that she is politically naive.
She could have said to Brown, I can't do that but I can offer you some
other lollies.
Now, she is on Bob's hook and can wriggle all she likes but he won't
let here go, she is too valuable as a tenant.

TBC

Jesus and Muhammad would start preaching at each other and Buddha would tell us we have to work it out for ourselves - don't think he was into power as much as the aforementioned.

And we do (have to work it out ourselves). We voted them in. And we will be under Abbott's thumb if Labor cannot sort itself out - although I acknowledge the dearth of talent in Labor, well both sides for that matter. The only Liberal 'talent' sullied himself with the Gordon Grech campaign to smear Rudd.

Can't see this ride reaching clement skies any time soon.

I remain highly sceptical of both major parties.

I do remain hopeful that some sincere and capable pollie will emerge, I don't give a toss what sex they are as long as they can do the job.

PS

Would be really impressed by Gillard if she set up refugee processing on shore and told the paranoia merchants where to shove their spin.

Yeah, I know I am dreamin'.

My main complaint is that Labor's performance has been so diabolical as to allow the possibility of someone like Tony Abbott a "perhaps" easy ride into the top job. How did that happen?...will he achieve it through some kind of default?

Surely our system was (theoretically) designed to deliver us nothing but the very best in our leadership appointments...and look what we end up with - on both sides. Perhaps we should go back to the drawing board.

Well, I was stunned last night as I sullied my brainbox with another episode of Q&A.

There was Dr. Frankenstein, Belly's near best mate Paul Howes, the Creator of Gillard (with his faithful Egor, Bill Shortarse, of course)sitting next door to Clive Palmer, LNP magnate, National Supremo, bigshot/mouth, both of them speaking more sense than Combet or that rather snooty Sophie M.

What a turn up!

Combet was clearly choking back Cabinet Vomit as he 'supported' the Gillard line, knowing full well that Doug Cameron was nodding his head in violent disagreement.

Who would ever have thought that an intelligent comment could have come from Howes, after Creating Gillard as 'the only answer' OR Clive Palmer?

But BOTH of them TOGETHER with the only intelligent offering to date was simply staggering.

Clive for PM?

TBC,

We must have been watching two different shows.
I got a totally different impression.
That "Mirabella" creature kept on spouting
the usual Opposition's Party "Mantra,"
and kept being corrected by actual facts.
I felt sorry for the woman.
Small things like - since the election the
Government has steered 130 bills through
Parliament including ones dealing with health
and disability. Things like the real costs
involved with the carbon tax (approx. 1 cent),
and which has the support of two of Australia's
biggest banks, the National and Westpac. And so
on. Of course in order to understand what
was being said - you would have to really listen
and think. And for some that's simply not possible.
Buying the Party line is so much easier.

Oh Lexi, not you too?

Do you deny then that Palmer and Howes offered an intelligent response to the self-inflicted refugee 'crisis'?

Or that Combet was barely able to speak his lines without choking on the words?

Of course Sophie was talking crap, that's Sophie's choice, and it's what she does best, in fact, it's all she ever does.

And yes, it was good of the economist to throw Superman a lifeline by casting doubt on such shamefully fabricated figures from dear Sophie.

But I didn't mention Sophie at all, perhaps because she is so easily ignored, having so very little to say ever that is worth listening to, unless you are the sort of person who is overawed by patent nonsense and feel the need to find other sources to back up what might be blindingly obvious to others?

Do I understand then Lexi, that you are blushing with pride when it comes to Gillard's Final Solution, the transportation of human souls to some Godforsaken dump of a fascist state?

Or, while glued to Sophie's pearls, did you miss what the otherwise odious pair of Palmer and Howes were saying?

Gillard has Lowered Feminine Aspirations

That's not entirely fair. She lowered everyone's aspirations.

A HEM!
TBC
Ah MATE, I like reading your posts.
Am a bit of a fan, but ,well, interested in a boat Trip are we?
See I have ten tickets on the first return boat to that Fascist state.
Ah gee, see both party's, supported by most of us, say its ok.
Silly me, at it again, saying what will upset a few and what most think!
Back under the veranda Belly!

Belly

I know you wear your Westie tag with pride, even joyous pride, and that there are indeed many who share your global view.

Perhaps, probably in fact, a majority in Australia today who are so fearful of 'reffos' that they would agree to sinking the boats, never mind towing them out to sea.

The 'Fcuk off, we're full' bumper sticker sells very well in modern Oz, along with the 'Love it or leave' one on all the RSL members cars and motorised wheelchairs.

And that is where the Howes global view, in line with Palmer, is such a refreshing one.

You sound a little jaded Belly, so take that cruise for yourself, and perhaps offer a few places to some of your chums here.

You'll love the multi-cultural atmosphere over there.

Be just like home.

TBC,

Of course I'm for on shore processing.
What sane person isn't? And I enjoyed
watching "Q and A," last night. Some
very intelligent comments were made by
quite a few. One thing does remain clear,
at least to me - and that is - give this
government the chance to see out its
full term. Then judge it.

Ms Gillard along with many other pollies have shown that they are in denial when they say that personal philosophy does not affect public performance. The Labour party has stooped to new lows simply because so many lack any morals. Lies, misuse of union funds, backstabbing, political spin, hypocrisy and godless alliances are even disliked by many moral relativist (surprising). Even the most ardent feminist must feel sorry for Mr Rudd (then again the sisterhood will stoop to any level to defend their goddess). And to think the same backers of Gillard despise Palin so much. Go figure! Maybe a few should look to Maggie as an example of a woman who achieved much more than most.

Indeed Lexi, we think alike on not throwing Gillard out at this point, although, for her sake, Bowen should have already resigned to take the heat off her for her failed 'reffo' policy.

It's called, 'the Westminster System', as I recall.

But, I am not inclined to regard however many bills have been passed as a 'productivity' indicator of Gillard or the ALP.

That's what they are elected to do, so they get no bonus points from me for simply doing their job.

And if they had passed none, then the situation would have been put to the test via an election already.

Sadly, it's what they have not done, or attempted, that people are judging them on now and that is well deserved judging, I feel.

The 'judging' of it will be done many years hence, not by us either, since Gillard and the ALP are in a death-crash spiral right now and are laying the groundwork for another dark era of neo-liberals, although, if God were real, there is just a chance He might intervene and save us from an Abbott/Bishop/Hockey/Robb led tenancy in The Lodge.

Although, if Gillard satisfies no one today (beyond the Emily's List people of course Antiseptic), then one has to really wonder who from the neo-libs will they be clamouring for to 'save' them?

Sophie perhaps? Or Bronwyn? Julie?

Surely, after having a female ALP PM they would want to show us all that a neo-lib can do it too, but better?

And Tony, being such a chivalrous chappy, would be eager to hold the car door for 'her' saying, 'after you', in his most suave manner.

Oh, I'm feeling funny all over.

Lexi,

"give this government the chance to see out its full term. Then judge it."

You must be kidding! This government is in its death throes, and in its death throes is dragging the country down with it. You would put a rabid dog out of its misery, this labor government deserves the same.

*Of course I'm for on shore processing.
What sane person isn't?*

Err Lexi, most sane people arn't. That is exactly why politicians
are pragmatic about the topic. For they both know, they can't
win an election, if the Govt has no control of Austrlia's borders.

Unless of course both parties get real and change the terms by
which we abide by the Geneva 1951 Convention. ie. we will take
x thousand refugees a year.

Your open door policy, of the UNHCR controlling our borders, with
no upper limit, which you believe in, is not acceptable to most
sane Australians.

It is exactly to avoid problems as created in Europe, the USA and
elsewhere. Legislation needs to be in place before we have a problem,
not after the horse has bolted. Only a dreamer could believe
otherwise.

Q&A again:
There you all go again, govt this, opposition that, what none of you
noticed that when talking about the CO2 tax they all are ignorant
of the elephant in the corner.
Its not just that they ignore it, they do not even see it !

All waffling on about the economy and growth. None of them or the
audience had a clue about what is going on around them.
No one asked how the govt or opposition is going to handle a zero
growth economy, let alone a contracting economy.

What the hell do they think is going on in Europe and the US and to
some extent here. They were waffling on about manufacturing and
competition.
They don't even understand why countries are having trouble getting
growth restarted. They still think globalisation will save us.
God help us !

Either Tony Abbott is an intellectual giant of which I doubt or the Labour party are so pig headed that they refuse to listen to the vast majority of people when it comes to a carbon tax and border protection. The sad part is that they are listening to ideologist who claim to have the high moral ground. The vast majority (was it 59 41 today) have woken up to the spin doctors pushing their socialist agenda while claiming the scientific and moral backing. How far from the working people can you get. To think that these 'born to rule'mob have the audicity to criticize the oppositions 'born to rule mentality'. Sooner or later Labour might wake up to the fact that they are servants of Australians rather than slaves to personal UN aspirations and ideology. The insulant unionist on Q@A being cheered by rent a crowd and Getup shows how out of touch they are.

There is something very anal about the phrase 'control over our borders' when, in so many other areas, we have reduced or little control at all.

Is the 'border patrol' fascination the last of the Biggles adventures maybe?

We seem to have no control over where miners mine, within our borders, but no one cares about that, eh?

Our dollar has a mind of its own, and 'everyone' agrees we should make no attempt to control that, within or without our borders.

Companies who have for years bled the tax system dry, yet usefully employed people, can close down overnight without any expectation on them that they provide for those left behind, and we have no control over that.

Miners, through their greed, drive other firms to the wall, yet there is no call for control over that.

The ADF wastes billions every year, and Stephen Smith says they are 'out of control' but no one cares about that (maybe Smith might).

Our universities pass unpassable drongos and allow them to fill the employment market with 'qualified' people, that is out of control, but no one cares about that.

No, it's this last bastion of defiance, in this bastion of end-of-the-world charm, that feels, somehow, it is the only nation in the world who has a God given right to process refugees in someone else's country because, otherwise, our nation would be 'defenceless'.

pt 2 to follow

Dear Yabby,

I am a dreamer. And you're going to accuse
me of being "wishy washy" again - but I don't mind.
As I've said in the past - we need to dream.
Soaring imagination is the glue that keeps our soul
from shattering under the imnpact of a prosaic world.

We begin with dreams, but then we persevere and bring
them to fruition.

Lexi:>> That "Mirabella" creature kept on spouting<<

An apt descriptive my dear Lexi, Joe Hockey with two X chromosomes.

TBC I want that first sticker!
The one that says I am drunk and there is no room for passengers.
Westy? here? 15 homes, K Mart just round the corner and 80klm further on.
Well ok know you are a green so it will be ok see us few 88% have a different view.
Lexi not offended but I am happy to be mad as a hatter I do not want on shore processing, unless its booking the seat home, that day

Sticker in the mail Belly. Try not to drink and drive though.

pt 2 after my enforced break for overposting:

How pathetic. How woefully miserable and pathetic are you people?

Tell me Yabby and Co, in which country does Malaysia process the 90k refugees who sit inside its borders?

That's 90,000, not 2000 or whatever pitiful number we quibble about being an 'Asian threat' to our defenceless nation.

How many Mexicans slink through into the USA, eh?

Or North Africans into Italy?

Let's go back a few years, to when the Germans were cleansing their neighbouring nations of Jews, Commies and Gypsies, not to mention 'poofs' and other unAustralian types.

I can see you all objecting to that boat load of Jews who tried to land here.

"We are being swamped by Jews. They eat different food. They speak different languages. We are all English here (hahaha, fools, didn't even WANT to be Australians back then), we cannot defend our borders against ship loads of Jews.

Of course, the ACTU would have been in there too, eh Belly? Forgetting the 'international' aspects of their fake solidarity of unionism and muttering something about two Wongs not making a white, Asian/Jewish hordes invading.

If we had a Gadaffi here, it's people like you lot who would be supporting him

Bluey, I'd let these people in, but only under the same conditions as Malaysia does.

No permanent residency, no welfare, no public & no legal aid.

Put these conditions on them, & watch the boats stop.

Anyone who doesn't admit that we get the bludgers, after our welfare is an idiot, or has an agenda.

Gillard and Labor are going to ram through the CO2 tax this Monday 12th Sept.So if you want to stop it,get to Parliament House Canberra and voice your displeasure.

Dear Hasbeen,

I'm surprised at you. You need to know your
facts before you post statements about asylum
seekers that are simply not true.

This might help[:

http://www.bid4freedom.org/media/asrcbackground08.pdf

The Truth About Asylum Seekers.

Lexi, dreaming is wonderful, but life is about balance. Reality does
not go away, when you close your eyes and pretend that it does.

TBC, you are clearly confused. Companies can't mine where they like,
its controlled by the State, which owns the minerals.

Companies can indeed shut up shop and stop employing people, for
employing others is voluntary. Just like how you spend the money
in your bank account, its your decision. Why should they have less
rights then you?

The floating of the Dollar is once again Govt policy, which could
be changed tomorrow.

The ADF indeed seem to waste money, which is another reason why
we don't tend to trust Govts to run businesses. They arn't much
good at it, for taxpayers money is too easily peed up against
proverbial walls.

So what we do in Australia is very much under Govt control. Why
should our borders not be the same?

If you want open borders, just say so. For people like me could
soon charter a few sheep ships and load up human passengers in
Mombasa and Karachi. How many hundred thousand a year would you
like?

Personally I think it would be a crying shame to turn Austrlia into
another third world slum, but it would not be hard to do.

Interestingly those who seem to crow loudest about this, also claim
to care about the environment. Perhaps they have never been to
India, to see what third world environments look like.

Lexi, do you really think you can get any truth from a propaganda organisation like that?

With it being so bad, I wonder why they don't just go home.

Yabby, nice try. Life though, is hardly about 'balance' is it, unless you omitted the word 'bank' in front of 'balance', by the sound of you?

You are quite right, I do apologise.

Anna Blight has decreed there is to be a law preventing mining companies from mining in town centres and two kms from that spot.

I'd forgotten her hard-hitting tough laws to curb rapacious mining companies.

Funny really, that she'd sacrifice a single square inch of the top soil from the buckets-of-doom, but then, as you say, the 'state' owns the minerals, although not the people who live within the state, so it seems. And if you doubt that, just ask the farmers on the Darling Downs and in the Liverpool Plains, NSW.

You are sounding very 'brave' about the Aus$ Yabby. Taken a hit recently? Wishing for a policy reversal or feigning a disinterested stance?

Do please write to Stephen Smith and offer to run a mercenary force. You could staff it with third world warriors just to give them a job. Nice gesture. Save us all a lot of taxes too. Very popular in the neo-lib circles I'd say.

I see 'open borders' being entirely consistent with free trade Yabby, and am shocked to think you would baulk at that link.

How can we get the cheapest, sorry, best price for labour if we are unable to undercut the local shirkers with foreign workers?

Trade is trade after all, and people are just widgets to be traded like all the other junk we all buy.

Perhaps you are shipping people in now Yabby? Someone is, apparently.

*Life though, is hardly about 'balance' is it*

Of course it is, TBC. We think and we feel, they often conflict.
Learning to think about what we feel and why, lets us examine life
from various perspectives, not just the one. The emotionally engulfed
commonly have a sad ending, despite all the dreams. The law of
unintended consequences is never far away.

*'state' owns the minerals, although not the people who live within the state, so it seems.*

Ah TBC, democracy is indeed full of faults, but its the least worst
system available. The majority of the people did indeed vote for
Anna Bligh. So she has a mandate from the people of Qld, like it or
not.

*Wishing for a policy reversal or feigning a disinterested stance?*

As I rely on exports, I indeed take a hit. That does not change the
fact that the market value for something makes more sense to me
then a politician deciding the same, based on his/her urge to be
re elected.

*I see 'open borders' being entirely consistent with free trade Yabby*

Not so TBC, for free trade is commonly beneficial to both parties
and is about win-win. That is not the case with open borders.

Comment, as it often does, has moved from reality, the impacts of the high courts ruling.
The wishes of most Australians, to the pain and suffering of SOME OF the boat people.
We too, are side tracked to questions about our humanity, and ignorance to that suffering.
A Democracy remains as always unable to please every one.
Surely it however should serve the will of most?
If today Sarah Hanson Young was our leader, controlled both houses, apart from my mate TBC being overjoyed.
Australia would be over run!Say no! tell me I am wrong, but no it is true.
Refugees who come here risk death, risk being sent back, risk every thing.
And they pay, about 5 years income in those country's.
If it was certain at the end of the trip they faced certain entry?
Australia, must soon, confront the fact it is over crowding and shortage of food that brings the refugees here.
Are we to put our selves in that position, cut the cake in to even smaller slices?
Pretend that once here we do not see intrusions, on our rights in our country.
I know, without doubt, the Greens are best served by not putting us on notice they in those numbers, care little for the view of mainstream Australia.

Belly, I have to tell you that if Hanson-Young were to become PM I would be very upset indeed.

I might vote Green, out of sheer desperation and with a desire to participate in the process, but I regard Hanson-Young as being on a par with Pauline Hanson, albeit for different reasons. And no, it's not the close association of her name with Hanson, although, maybe, if we turn her surname around she does become a Young-Hanson, so who knows?

I cringe when I see her come on to the news and feel somewhat unsettled as I vote 'Green', probably as many ALP voters do with Gillard, or Rudd back when he was PM, and, one hopes, Coalition voters might with Abbott.

That may be unfair on her, but she does not impress me at all.

As for the meaning of 'democracy', it's a bit of an unsettled definition as far as I can see.

Take our partner nations, the UK and USA, for instance.

Hardly anyone votes in either nation, so disengaged are they with the process of politics, leaving the path clear for complete idiots to take control and be voted in by their equally brain-dead supporters.

This leads to Belly's 'best practice' model of democracy, the leadership of the herd, the baying of nincompoops being the motive power of politics, the complete Westie Model.

There seems to be a view abroad that democracy has been with us always. Not so, it's quite new and fresh in the West (not your Westie West Belly, the West as a concept of where we sit geo-politically).

I have a book here, 1831, concerning the Duke of Wellington- the one who beat Napoleon and became an English PM.

In discussing the rising tide of democracy, in particular the 'troubles' of Ireland seeping over to England, Lord Byron comments that 'democracy is only an aristocracy of blackguards', while Wellington says, 'A democracy, if a real democracy could be formed, would be the strongest of all governments; but then, remember, the strongest is the most tyrannical'.

The Duke, of course, supported strong sovereigns who attracted 'good men' to run the nation, a model I am just as doubtful of.

But Belly, your model supports and endorses such as Palin and Bush, Clinton and Obama, Blair and Cameron, as well as our political misfits we suffer from here.

Where do all the other nations in the world send their refugees to, to be processed off-shore?

Our desperate need to find a solution to a non-problem is not to be found, as far as I am aware, anywhere else in the world.

If anyone could supply a list of, say, a dozen nations who are doing what The Westie's demand here, I would appreciate it.

*Where do all the other nations in the world send their refugees to, to be processed off-shore?*

TBC, nations use all sorts of ways and means to fight them off
with all sorts of sticks. All because nobody wants to address the
situation and update the UN Convention, although I gather that
Blair did try.

But why should Australia copy others? I've heard the arguments
before, that our Govt should borrow more, as other Govts do.
Luckily we didn't copy Europe or the US on that one and had a
sensible treasurer like Costello, who made sure we went our
own way. With hindsight he was 100% correct, as history now shows.

Gillard is trying to instigate the CO2 tax before she gets dumped.We cannot trust the Coalition either.The banks and the share market want their new derivative.There is enormous pressure on both parties to bring in a tax that will further destroy our industries making our country a cheap buy for those who counterfeit our currencies.That is their objective.