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The Forum > General Discussion > Atheism The Way Forward.

Atheism The Way Forward.

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From the level of discussion by atheists here they have not produced one idea that progresses society, culture and lifestyle, It is just a lot of negative hot air all based in their minds.
Posted by Philo, Tuesday, 13 September 2011 2:19:22 PM
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Well I've no wish to exasperate you further, David, but your manifesto is effectively more of a privatisation purge than an ideological one. Humans are irrational creatures, arguably irredeemably so; your just (innocently) helping to commodify it. I've long supported the separation of church and State and that includes suspension of finacial support and tax breaks for religious groups etc., to the tune of many billions per annum. But now I wonder. While I support the demise of State funded religion, it's part of a trend that disturbs me and doesn't stop with worship. I got up this morning and couldn't watch the tennis final (not that I care) because it's all user-pays these days. Doesn't it strike you that this atheist agenda is glove on hand with the push to privatise, that you're the cat's paw? What qualitative difference is it going to make to people's lives? It's going to give them "freedom of choice" you say? Don't make me laugh! Manipulating consumers is a science that's been fully mined so that all choice is anticipated--indeed cultivated! That's what the churches do for Christ's sake! and the other corporations resent the favouritism, they want a level playing field, but please don't tell me that's going to make for a better world!
Get rid of private schools and hospitals in favour of equal education and healthcare for everyone if you want to do some good. Privatising religion will probably be just the shot in the arm it needs--make it lean and mean! You're never going to get rid of it; you'll just make it another form of elitism, draining more ideological power off the State.
Ditchkins really haven't thought this through!
Posted by Squeers, Tuesday, 13 September 2011 2:29:00 PM
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Ammonite,

Every time it's pointed our that liberal rationalism has prevailed and that there exist pressing problems of unsustainability and inequity in the world which are more likely to emanate from rampant neoliberalism than from religion, all you and David can say is...well...er...um..."atheism isn't an ideology" - end of discussion.

It "is" by association if it's attached to a movement or a foundation - that is what David is promoting.

(My "agenda" is my usual one - as if you didn't realise that. Squeers's agenda is also his usual one. Be nice if you stopped pretending you didn't know us as well as you do).
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 13 September 2011 5:21:04 PM
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Poirot

>> there exist pressing problems of unsustainability and inequity in the world which are more likely to emanate from rampant neoliberalism than from religion <<

I disagree.

I see the problems of "unsustainability and inequity" emanating from an unholy alliance of neo-conservatism which is served very well by certain fundamentalist Christian sects.

I repeat atheism is just a non belief in a deity.

George Lakoff writes:

"It was conservative laissez-faire free market ideology -- that maximizing profit comes first -- that led to:

The corrupt relationship between the oil companies and the Interior Department staff that was supposedly regulating them
Minimizing cost by not drilling relief wells
The principle that oil companies could be responsible their own risk assessments on drilling
Maximizing profit by outsourcing risk assessment that told them what they wanted to hear: zero risk!
Maximizing profit by minimizing cost of materials
Maximizing profit by failing to pay cleanup crews and businesses for their losses
Focusing only on profit by failing to test the cleanup methods to be used if something went wrong
Minimizing cost by sacrificing the health of cleanup crews, refusing to allow them to use respirator masks to protect against toxic fumes.
.......

But the facts won't make a difference to dyed-in the-wool conservatives, since the facts will be filtered through their ideological frames: when the facts don't fit the frames, the facts will be ignored.

The conservative worldview says man has dominion over nature: nature is there for human monetary profit."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-lakoff/conservatisms-death-gushe_b_646488.html

And for some further edification:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right
Posted by Ammonite, Tuesday, 13 September 2011 5:43:16 PM
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Furthermore.

There are atheists who are conservative, religious who are left-wing. Atheists who do not accept climate change and religious who do.

In short generalising about people is erroneous thinking indeed.

Making bald statements that atheism is an ideology without at least showing evidence for such a point of view is poor argument. Not a single post presented by anyone has proven that atheism is any more than a non belief in god.
Posted by Ammonite, Tuesday, 13 September 2011 5:50:17 PM
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Ammonite,

Neoliberalism :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

Neoconservatism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 13 September 2011 6:03:23 PM
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