Madam PM says there is a huge black hole in tonly abbots budget.

Well , that wouldn't surprise me, but is she game to admit to how on earth it got there.

I seriously doubt it as she can do no wrong, especially in the eyes of her loyal supporters.

History shows that The coalitions role in politics has been to pay back labor's debt, then build a nest egg.

Boy, what a long runup they will have this time.

I would like to offer a great big thanks to madam PM, her team and of cause her loyal supporters, who, at a time when our country was in great shape simply decided it was time for a change.

A few words of advise.

The next time you feel the urge to heal the world, perhaps you should make shaw it is sick in the first place.

These games your lot play are for keeps and should be left to experts,not desk warriors.

I hope you are all proud of your collective achievements and I also hope that you may have learned a lesson or two this time around.

After all, we can't continue to clean your mess up.

Abbot will not see the next election.

A597 very true!
I will now ignore this uninformed thread.

Labor have taken a $20 billion surplus and turned it into a $ 80 billion deficit.Where has 100 $ billion gone in 4 yrs.No one road or new train line built,just all wasted on their hair brained schemes and scams.It took the Coalition 7-8 yrs to pay off Labor's they left us with back in 1996.

Another 4 yrs of Labor will either drive our economy into the dirt via CO2 taxes or put us into debt like the USA from which we will never escape.

Yes and Belly has fled the discussion because he cannot stomach the truth.As I said Belly we are going to vote labor back to the stone age.The only seats they will have will be found in the dunny.Their epitaph will be found in the toilet bowl." Treacherous liars to their own people!" It is time to flush them away.

Just imagine how useful that stimulus package would have been with a fast train project that would see benefits into the future. I agree that the ALP has wasted money. Rudd was too quick into reform mode without proper oversight - that is now well accepted.

" seriously doubt it as she can do no wrong, especially in the eyes of her loyal supporters."

That sentiment runs true with loyal supporters on both sides of politics including those who are completely fooled by the inane comments coming out of the Opposition at the moment and the lack of any policy substance. The Opposition can just spirit up figures and the party faithful will just follow like lemmings without any real scrutiny.

Just look at the fear campaign over the mining tax, something that would have benefited all Australians and had little impact on miners. With the billions to be made in mining I doubt the tax would have deterred would-be investors.

The stupidity is this narrow perception of politics dominated by a two-party system where there is in reality very little difference between them as far as the big picture.

Arjay should be a poet.

Belly, you need to do one of two things, either grow up, or leave olo, because comments like that make you look like a spoiled brat that wants to take his ball and go home.

Ilinfomed you say.

Well even you must realize the enourmesy of the task ahead of this man in trying to once again clean up labor's towering debt, for the second time in little more than a decade.

They did it last time, I doubt they can do it again without really hurting someone.

The likes of you and your supporters who helped create this mess need to realize that we were in great shape before your lot got hold of the cheque book.

Just imagine how good things would be if labor had left the books the way they found them.

Sure, there was the GFC, but that's it, the only excuse they have. The rest of the stuff ups, and there are more than anyone cares to count have been the result of poor government policy and incompetent management.

Now if the black hole is in face 70 billion, then I hate to think how much it will be if these fools go their full term.

Thanks again to you and your loyal supporters for your blind sided efforts in helping to ruin this great place.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/public-service-same-size-as-20-years-ago-20110814-1it39.html
Speaks for its self.
Danger!this substance may be considered unwanted and may inflict injury on parts of the body.
Ego is known to be affected in some.
Rare here but usually known as
TRUTH! be aware of its impacts.

Who was in power 20 years ago, That's right a labor government that also managed to build up a vast public debt.

The $70bn black hole left by labor, is equivalent to the 10 yrs interest on the federal debt racked up by labor, and includes provisions for compensation of carbon exemptions of $24bn, that may not arise, and much of it can be funded by scrapping some of labor's sillier projects such as the NBN and carbon tax.

The rest left to find can easily be carved out of labor's bloated bureaucracy.

The interesting thing about that article is that it doesn't take into account the enormous growth in the outsourcing of key APS functions, including a great deal of welfare activity.

If we add in the number of people employed by Anglicare (Spiritus), Mission Australia, Uniting Care and the Salvos I suspect we could probably add another 20-30% to the figure given in that article. Then there is the large amount of outsourced public works activity. Commonwealth Department of Works (later Housing and Construction) was abolished in 1975 and all of its activities were outsourced.

The most intriguing aspect of APS growth is the massive increase under Howard after Keating dismantled so much of it. It's completely counter-intuitive in terms of the ALP/Liberal dynamic.

Of course, Howard understoof that his primary constituency was professionally-qualified people with high incomes and the APS has the largest proportion of those in the nation.

The whole topic is much like the discussion of unemployment, when "employment" is defined as working just 1 hour in a fortnight. It might make for nice headline numbers, but it doesnt aid understanding of the problem.

Remember the who ha when Barnaby Joyce pointed out the deceptive way
of showing the real debt. ie gross debt & net debt.

From what I can make out this is the way they compare debt against GDP.
GDP includes all transactions, is A pays B $10 and then B pays C $15
for the one product and that is $25 GDP.
So compared to GDP our debt is a lot lower than comparing it to
government income.

I would like to hear Barnaby Joyce's figure for our debt as I find it
hard to accept the governments figures.

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/201108/s3293459.htm
Give poor old Tony a break.
Yes he said both yes and no, in three days on this question.
But he says that all the time.
Leave the poor fella alone ,in time, after some thought, he Will decide what statement was the scripted one.
What a choice! worst PM or wost opposition leader becoming even worse
PM.

Meanwhile we continue to suffer through terribly low unemployment and no sign of the massive recession that the rest of the world had to endure.

The only downturn in consumer confidence has been the result of scaremongering by Tiny Rabbit and his gang.

You really need an attention span beyound two weeks to know what's really going on.

wobbles:"The only downturn in consumer confidence has been the result of scaremongering"

au contraire. My business began suffering a significant downturn at about the time the last election was called and has not yet recovered to even 80% of what it was prior to that time. It was already down about 10% on the previous year. The notable thing is that the business that has gone was nearly all consumer-level. While business-to-business sales are still OK, the small, discretionary, relatively high profit stuff has simply ceased to move.

Anti, I here you loud and clear.

My business suffered a 40% downturn in august 2009 the same time as interest rates first increased. I has got even worse now and in fact, if not for my capacity to keep propping it up, I would have been another of the growing closures in qld in recent times.

I am now at the point of saying that's enough. If it fails, so be it as I will be in pretty good company.

The likes of wobbles and co are so out of touch it's not funny.

Those who are provided with jobs simply don't realize how close things are to collapse, but they will soon enough.

You see when things get tough they just seek a pay rise, but in reality, pay rises must come from additional profits, or, they place strain on the business which, if not addressed can lead to closure, resulting in no jobs.

Their world is crumbling around them but they are to narrow sighted to see the trees for the Forrest.

Trouble is they are taking us all with them, otherwise I wouldn't care a less.

But back on topic, how dare this rotten woman accuse Tony Abbott of having a black hole when she knows damn well she and her useless government are the cause of any hole should it exist.

So the Gillard government is now to blame for the GFC. Really rehctub that is just party political speak. Business goes through cycles all the time, and in the US business is far more affected than we here in Australia mainly thanks to better regulatory frameworks, many instigated by the Liberal Party.

By all means criticise waste and government policy but stating the ALP is to blame for any downturn in business is inaccurate without taking into account global influences. Retail business is down too because people are now preparing for the impending 'gloom and doom' touted constantly in the media.

wobbles is right about the 'sky is falling in' tactics of the Opposition fuelled by some of the media usual suspects. Many loyal LNP supporters are just lapping this stuff up without any deeper reflection.

Much of the outsourcing of welfare functions was done by the Howard Government and the ALP continued the trend. What is worse is that many employment and counselling based functions have been outsourced to foreign owned companies over Australian companies. It is ironic that government tendering processes no longer include an Australian content clauses which would do more to aid business than any stimulus package. The opportunities for rorting are rife in many of these arrangements.

Thats the usual dribble you get from rechtub, blind in one eye and can not see out the other.
What are they going to do when Toni ain't there any more.

Actually a597, you lot should be thanking your lucky stars he is there. Because, unless you are all totally blind, you would realize just how poor your leader and her team are,as they are running a distant second to this person you refer to a a looser.

While I accept the GFC had a huge impact it didn't cause the insulation, solar, school halls, grocery watch, alcopop tax, fuel watch, cash for clunkers, live export or the copenhargen debacles, Did it!

Forgive me if I have forgotten anything as there have been so many stuff ups in such a short period.

Nor did it give a fair excuse for madam pms lies about a carbon tax.

So, when you add it all up, no matter where you li on the political side, it ain't to pretty, is it!

Now if hats what you call, usual dribble, then w will need a huge supply of napkins, cause the majority of voters agree with me.

Of cause, we dare not ask these incompetent fools to come up with a scheme to deliver the napkins, cause chances are they will stuff that up as well.

Just remember, the easiest way to stall an economy is to insill uncertainty into the masses.

It's about the only thing they have actually achieved, that is to set out to ruin the economy.

Now if you are one who thinks things are rosy, then by all means, dream on!

rehctub you are big on the strawman arguments.

"While I accept the GFC had a huge impact it didn't cause the insulation, solar, school halls, grocery watch, alcopop tax, fuel watch, cash for clunkers, live export or the copenhargen debacles, Did it!"

No but the GFC led to those ill-thought out polices but more importantly none of that has that anything to do with your opening post about business.

"Now if you are one who thinks things are rosy, then by all means, dream on!"

Who said things are rosy. The comments are about your interpretation not a disagreement about the downturn in retail, only the reasons why.

If you are going to look for someone to blame at least try and get the analysis right.

Dear pelican, what comment did I make about business in my opening post?

I'll thought out you say.

Boy, how many stuff ups do you lot want to blame on the GFC.

That occurred in 2008 from memory.

Stimulus. Not a bad ideas except it was waited in many cases, due mainly to poorl implementation. Now that's round one. What excuse is there for round two?

Increased first home buyers grant.
Many today are facing finical ruin, just as they were in 08 only this time they owe hundreds of thousands, because, they were lured into buying a home then faced with interest rate hikes, fuel, power ect hikes.

Sadly, some won't have to repay their increased debts because they simp,y couldn't see a way out.

So, I will ask you pelican, at what point do you think enough is enough?

Qantas have clearly had enough, arrnotts and golden circle as well. This is just the beginning, watch this space.

What a lot of hooey booey. You are an opportunist, at it's worst. You must try and get over the fact we have a labor govt;
In two years time you can have another chance to vote, until then you will just have to try and sleep at night.

rehctub I cannot work out if you are purposely misconstruing my words or just misunderstanding them. True the downturn in business comments came from another poster, but you followed up with your own.

Where did I say the GFC was responsible for the stuff ups. I wrote the GFC led to those policies in an effort to reduce it's impact, it was the government that stuffed up the delivery of those stimulus programs. However you don't concede that Australia is remarkably better off than many other countries including the US where there is little regulatory mechanisms.

I have also had enough of the Opposition whipping up hysteria and refusal to answer valid questions about their policies and how they are going to fund those policies. Is it wrong to hold the Opposition to account for their claims? Don't forget if they win the next election are we just going to accept our mushroom status for the next three years. Abbott made a comment recently about supporting farmers rights around the gas projects on prime agricultural land and then quickly backtracked. Does he even know what he believes in? The political landscape now is just a marketing exercise and that is what I am sick of and where I say enough is enough.

I am not saying the ALP is better or worse. I just find it funny that many LNP supporters cannot see there is very little difference between the two major parties on essentials.

Your claim that the 'black hole' in Coalition policy is down to Labor is just plain wrong. The black hole refers to anomalies in their their costings.