http://www.infowars.com/gen-hamid-gul-u-s-generals-trying-to-start-war-with-pakistan/
General Hamid Gul was a 3 star general and also the Director General of Intelligence Services in Pakistan.Pakistan has been a true ally to the USA in the fight against the Communist USSR invasion of Afghanistan.

Now with the so called killing of Bin Laden we are seeing the demonising of Pakistan as a surrepticious terrorist state.The USA admitted that they took Bin laden alive,promptly executed him and deftly buried him at sea.There is no photos,no DNA or evidence that this is the truth.So how can Pakistan be labelled a terrorist state when the USA did not do due diligance in collecting evidence?

Hamid Gul is saying the USA is pushing the world towards WW3 and I have to agree.

Sorry no way around this.
You out look is so different.
Your ideas so strange to most.
Hope you find no offense in this.
But do you come from this part of the world.
Pakistan a Friend to America?
Most, almost every one, will be aware several different Pakistan's exist.
The one sending terrorists in to India.
Same one hiding and assisting the Taliban.
And one struggling to keep its eye on the other.
We have no idea what side will win.
But I am forced to wounder about your reasons for so different an out look than the main.

Belly,

Pakistan is supposedly an ally of the U.S. - although it's always been a farcical partnership....staring to unravel bigtime now.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/12/tortured-ties-is-pakistan-a-u-s-ally-or-not.html

Belly you cannot see the dots,let alone join them.Sorry,I can't help you.

PROPAGANDA ALERT*

This is another fraud perpetrated on the world by MEMRI, which is a known Israel propaganda front. MEMRI provides, for free,..translations of Arab media to the west,

but usually, the translations are skewed
..to serve Israel's interests.!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/aug/12/worlddispatch.brianwhitaker

here is an EGSAMPLE of their work..

Hamas Cleric has been MISSTRANSLATED ...!

into saying
:..The Jews Will be Annihilated
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/hamas-cleric-the-jews-will-be-annihilated-palestine-will-be-capital-of-new-caliphate/
& Palestine Will Be Capital of New Caliphate


This is Hamas member and cleric Yunis Al-Astal reportedly declaring,..“The [Jews]..are brought in droves to Palestine
so that the Palestinians –and the Islamic nation behind them –

will have the honor of annihilating the evil of this gang.”

He also predicts that Palestine
will become the capital of the new Islamic caliphate:

The western media, eager to save a few dollars, usually accepts and presents the translations without verifying their accuracy.

propaganda alert

an eye for an eye
sounds like a bushism

anyhow..noted two things

Sharia Law Is Here.

Certain hallowed members of the religion/politricks
also engage in the killing of completely innocent people..from time to time.

The innocent people may include children,
disabled people or others who were in the wrong place..at the wrong time.

Instead of condemning the killing of innocents,
the adherents of this religion instead claim such killings are “justifiable,”...sometimes because..“under the circumstances”
..it was excusable or understandable.

Other times,..zealots claim such killings
are an unfortunate but necessary part of law and society.

This religion is not Islam.

The religion is the Church
of the Police States...of America.
http://saladin-avoiceinthewilderness.blogspot.com/2011/05/sharia-law-is-here.html

I am aware of that Poirot, very much so.
Sorry one under god and arjay, but I find it interesting that you both seem to think much a like.
That it is me who is lost.
Pakistan, the way it got the Nuclear bomb, and distributed it to others.
Has had more faces that an Indian totem poll for half a century.

*Pakistan, the way it got the Nuclear bomb, and distributed it to others.*

That is not the end of it, Belly. They are on their way to taking
it to 100 bombs. Add to that Islamic fundamentalism, in both their
secret service and army, who run Pakistan anyhow and you have a future
disaster waiting to happen.

Gul, who Arjay apparently looks up to, is a known hater of the US
and a supporter of radical Islam. Wickipedia covers his history to
some extent.

Pakistan is a disaster waiting to happen, no need for the US to
do anything.

At last yabby some understanding in this thread.
We need to face facts,this world of ours is up to its chin in wrong information.
I think we will one day understand why some spread such truly not supported by truth stuff.
We can only judge on what we read here from some posters.
Our future is no easy one.
Last night The leader of the free world Baric Obama made a speech that was historic.
I set the alarm and watched He impresses me greatly.
Those American haters never will.

Gawd, Belly...what is it with this forum?
We have the fundie Christians accusing unbelievers of being "God Haters"...now you get in on the act accusing anyone who suspects the U.S. often indulges in it's own spin of being "America Haters".

"The leader of the free world" has a nice ring to it - and Obama does seem a thousand times more preferable to the rabble fronting the Bush Administration - but let's not ignore every government's penchant for spin. They all indulge in their own brand of hyperbole when it suits their agenda by appealing to the virtues of patriotism and altruism held dear by the common man.
It's a first class act - and Obama, at least, has the ability to articulate with finesse, compared to the wide-eyed smarm regularly dished out by his predecessor.

*now you get in on the act accusing anyone who suspects the U.S. often indulges in it's own spin of being "America Haters".*

Come on Poirot, its not unreasonable of Belly to point out that
much of the Arjay stuff is not about spin, but about being truly
away with the fairies. Thread after thread after thread.

Add a bit of OUG gibberish and its hardly sane debate.

Poirot, you tend to place your self with some unwise company.
Show me constructive Analise from arjay or OUG in debate that includes America.
I have read every east cost city newspaper this morning, every morning.
Set an alarm and watched a true man of peace live.
What do you require from America, Angels wings?
Why set the standards higher for them than any other country.
I understand you are a green supporter,but true honestly believe you are out of touch with the world as it is and always will be.
In my youth, I helped construct pure lies, to defame any thing my blind support for worker enslaving Communism and some Socialism groups wanted to target.
Today blind unthinking folk seem to find Merritt in ignoring the reality that is such as Pakistan and almost every Muslim nation.
If you never questioned arjay, never wondered what drives OUG you are not the highly intelligent person I have always thought you are.

I bet neither Yabby or Belly have not even bothered to view Hamid Gul's interview with Alex Jones.He rightfully calls the war on terror a sham and all the evidence supports his assertions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnr7CxqxJdQ Here you will see that Prescott Bush the Grandfather of George Bush was involved in a plot during the 1930's to over throw the US Govt and put in a facist dictatorship.General Smedley Butler put a stop to this coup.It involved Dupont,Rimmington and JP Morgan.These were probably just the superficial front for greater powers who financed WW2.

Currently the USA is in the grip of facism with the introduction of the Patriot Act and stripping away of human rights.They have followed all the formulae created by the Nazis.

Arjay, I don't think you'd even notice your own contradictions, if
you fell over them yourself.

Gul is a Taliban supporter, you know, those people who tread on
every human right imaginable, ban little girls from going to school,
ban music, videos, pictures and insist that people wear beards.

You then have the gal to mention US human rights.

Are you Pakistani by any chance?

Yabby neither you or Belly have argued any of the points raised.In the face of facts and logic,you are reduced to personal abuse and ad hominem.

Arjay, its interesting to note that you defend nutcase extremist
Islamists, but you are concerned about what Bush's grandfather
allegedly did.

Frankly I am much more concerned with the present, to even bother
about what peoples grandfathers occupied their time with.

I am the first to critisize Bush, the man was a dummy. But
I also see situations for what they are and your Pakistani
hero is hardly a man to look up to.

The militant islamist ideology is not just the figment of some
imagination. Its very real and some people actually do believe
this stuff.

Kohmehni, the nutter who headed Iran, made it quite clear that in
his opinion Islam was a violent religion. Sadly some of these
nutters, who are tied up with both the Pakistani intelligence service
and the army, are hugely damaging to more secular types in Pakistan.
But the fact that they now are increasing their nuclear weapons to
100 should be a concern to anyone who can think at least a little
objectively.

Yes, America tightened security. They had to, as did most countries
in the West, to deal with militant Islam. That is the price we pay
for having religous fruitcakes on the planet. Interestingly its
paid off for them, for today Islamists spend most of their time
killing other Muslims, rather then people in the West. That will not
go anywhere to advance their cause

The world yabby is a strange place.
Some can say what they want, and only be considered eccentric.
Others doing it?
I intend to wander out on the thin ice of my opinion, and my right to it.
It is my view the Muslim world, the good and bad off it, runs on lies.
No not con men, just lies are a habit, in my view.
We, every human group, have a few who are seemingly not in charge of their thought processes.
While Arjay may not be from Pakistan, if I was to ask him one question it would be a repeated one, what part of the world are you from my Friend?
The views seen in post after post are not supported by truth.
Ten thousand Ajay's may get some who fit another category to believe him, true concerns can be produced against any country.
But in the end,compare the reality of the west with the true one of middle eastern country's.
And we you yabby and I, can chuckle about the Author of such tripe saying we duck and dive reality.

Yabby.Even if you believe the official 911 BS,the actions of George Bush,Cheney etc are criminal.There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.Every invasion is about oil,resources and power plays.Look at the suspicious so called death of Bin Laden.It was a big cover up.

The real agenda behing this is to limit the power of China.China will not let Western Banking Cartels to create their money.These Cartels have assumed ownership of our increases in GDP by having the ability to create it from nothing in their computers.They control our finance system and our Govts.The more growth we have ,the more debt we incur.This is why since the selling of the Commonwealth bank and 4 state banks,we have to sell off public assets to pay from debt.

When the Commonwealth was sold off Howard had to bring in the GST to cover the increased Debt.Sure the Commonwealth was creating debt money from mortgages,but it reduced our taxes.We were able to create a % of our infrastructure debt free.30% of our mortgage money comes from OS Central Banks.

So this whole game is about the New World Order which they don't mention much these days.Just google New World Order.Even Obama mentioned it in his early rise to power.Their plan for a World Govt is still on the agenda and they are pushing for war with China.The plan is to bring on a total economic collapse and expand their wars of imperialism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory)

There you go, Arjay. The article discusses how some politicians
have used the term and why, to a list of the many conspiracy
theories of different kinds of "new world order"

The Jews will rule the world.
The antichrist will rule the world.
The freemasons want to rule the world.
The aliens which have come from outerspace,want to rule the world.
The list goes on.

Your choice of conspiracy theory is nearly as great as your
choice of religions in which to believe.

Truly wounder what drives me to respond to Ajay's posts.
Maybe I need help.

Belly,you and Yabby are fighting the losing battle.Just a couple of days ago I witnessed a group of young people viewing video of 911 and saying how impossible is was for these building to come down in such a fashion.They are finding our for themselves Belly and did not need any coaching from me.It is happening all around the planet.

Then just a couple of weeks ago some one rings Hadley on 2GB and tells him the Osama death and 911 is a joke.Hadley predictably goes into his usual triade and stops anyone from giving similar views.

Did I mention Jews Yabby or freemasons? No.They are your words.JFK warned us about the military/industrial complex but he should have included the Central Banks of USA/Europe as the major force behind the New World Order.

arjay Sir or Madam, may I first say it is not my intention to be rude or to upset you.
I respond only because you, yet again, give your view that I and yabby, are not just wrong but lost.
It is you, who show signs of not being aware your thoughts may well be what you say mine are.
As a scrambled egg is no longer a potential chicken, I think you views are a Pumpkin posing as a Water Melon.
An my growing hobby after retirement see,s me in the garden quite often.
arjay while weeds are green, they like some other substances make great fertilizer if buried there.

*Belly,you and Yabby are fighting the losing battle*

Im am? I'm not fighting any battles Arjay, just showing how flawed
your mind has become. But no doubt you'll be the last to notice.

I remind you it was you who suggested that I google "new world order"
Clearly your consipiracy theory about a new world order is one of
many. As my old uncle used to say, "for every sucker that dies,
another 10 are born". He had a point.

Lets see.The New World Order starts with Puppa Bush back in the early nineties( ex head of the CIA).Zibigniew Brezezinski "What we need is a truely massive and widely perceived direct external threat." ie 1997.Enter terrorism and Osama Bin laden) Bill Clinton is an exponent and then the thick Bush and now Obama.In Britian both Gordon Brown and Tony Blair are exponents of NWO.We cannot of course leave out Henry Kissenger.

What in your view is the NWO Yabby?

http://www.smh.com.au/world/chinese-urged-to-put-war-on-pedestal-20110522-1ez0q.html

There you go Arjay, in today's SMH. Top rising Chinese General
claims to want war and hates the US. Should I create a conspiracy
theory now?

The Wicki article explained quite well how politicians use the
term.

Just because somebody once said something, does not mean that
we have a new world order happening. It means that they said
something.

Hello gents,

I personally think "new world order" is a touch passe these days - I much prefer "Imperial Grand Strategy."

Yabby, your homework for tonight is to google it. : )

Ah of course, Poirot! I bet you've been reading Chompsky again :)

Hey Yabby.These people who are exponents of the NWO are not figments of our imagination.They are or were leaders of the so called Western free World.What are their objectives?

A reality check Arjay.

Bush the father was so piss weak, that he didn't even take out
Saddam, when he had the perfect opportunity after the gulf war.
But he did make the Arabs foot the bill for saving them.

Bush the son was so silly that he took the US to the edge of
bankrupcy in just 8 years. BTW the US got no oil out of Iraq
or Afghanistan, but spent 1 trillion $.

Obama is the first bloke with some brains, but the mess he has
to clean up is so huge, it wont' happen at the flick of a switch.
He's right though, America's best hope is to innovate its way
out of its troubles.

Still wondering.
NWO is in part a product of the worst in religion.
Some preachers even further from reality than the world ends yesterday bloke nurture it.
Fact is the coming world economic leader China,may have its own plans.
Ironic but I think our lost posters may one day Beg the America they defame, to rescue them.

China has given an ultimatium to the USA to leave Pakistan alone.The Chinese have the manpower and the weapons to back it up.Russia is also an ally of China.They have 11,000 active nukes.China is really an unknown quantity.

So how can a demoralised Military of the USA win a conventional war? What matters is soldiers on the ground and the USA are well outnumbered.Their only option is nukes and that will quickly escallate.

Oh, Arjay. You're so gullible.

>>China has given an ultimatium to the USA to leave Pakistan alone<<

The only known fact is that they have asked that "the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Pakistan must be respected".

All the rest, including the "ultimatum", is pure invention. "Sources say..." is the phrase employed by the Tarpleys of this world when they want to pass off their mischief as "news".

They all say the same thing - "According to Pakistani diplomatic sources cited by the Times of India, China has 'warned in unequivocal terms that any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China.'"

Well, here's the Times of India web page, opened at "Pakistan"

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/articlelist/30359534.cms

If you are still sceptical, type "ultimatum" into the search box.

There's a big grey bridge just down the road from me - interested in buying it? According to the North Sydney Gazette, it's a bargain - to you, only $5,000.

http://shop.skeptic.com/merchant.mvc?&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SS&Product_Code=b144HB

There you go Arjay, written just for you :)

That should help explain why you keep believing weird stuff.

"The washington planned attack on Pakistan will be interpreted as an act of aggression toward Beijing." I slang terms Pericles it is called back off.

I see another interesting development happening on sites like www.veteranstoday/ They are in denial about nano-thermite being used and say that nukes were used to bring down the towers and Building 7.They are trying to put all the blame on Israel when clearly the US Military and Govt had to have some involvement.Prof Steven Jones a physcist told me,at that time, only the USA had the technology to produce nano-thermite.So it seems that Israel and the ordinary Jews are being set up to take the whole wrap.

You have to realise Pericles and Yabby that these psychopaths have many scenarios on the table and pick the one to suit their occasion.Who are they? Follow the money trail.They don't have all these think tanks operating for nothing.

This is where your world differs from (almost) everyone else's, Arjay.

>>You have to realise Pericles and Yabby that these psychopaths have many scenarios on the table and pick the one to suit their occasion<<

Although I did have the good fortune to meet a conspiracy-theorist, in the flesh, only the other day. It was fascinating to witness first-hand the completely circular arguments employed.

Bin Laden has been dead for years, apparently, and the only reason his death was announced recently was because Obama wanted a boost to his popularity rating. The proof for this was, of course, that governments lie to us all the time (Iraq WMD, 9/11 etc.), so why wouldn't they lie about this? And (you're ahead of me, I can tell) the proof that they lied about bin Laden's death was that it would boost Obama's popularity... QED!

No amount of questioning could break the circle: "they" lie because "they" can, and "they" can because "they" lie. Everything is neatly explained in this way.

By the way, on what basis do you disbelieve the "mini-nuke" theory, Arjay, as opposed to the nano-thermite theory?

They both sound equally credible to me.

There is no way they would have used nukes on 911.There would have been flashes and much louder explosions.This denial of nano thermite is been done to confuse the issue,so that even the scientific evidence of 911 gets mixed up in a muddle of confusion.

Nano thermite acts as an explosive as well as an incendiary device.This is why we see molten metal pouring from the towers and steel girders cut as if an oxy torch did the work.Prof Jones and others ar not ruling out other devices but nukes are out of the question.The lack of radiation is another factor not supporting the theory of nukes.

I do see however intention amongst the military to blame Israel totally,thus some of the elites get a scapegoat to demonise.Israel was involved but it had to have collaboration within the Military and Political sphere of the USA to achieve this.The ordinary Isareli citizens would have had no idea what was happening and they would not have approved.

Isn't funny, that all the worlds people are thinking of war.

LEA