Diver Dan: ...Yes but, the “rock man” says to oblio, “You don’t have to have a point to have a point”… Get the point?

But like the Tree Man said. "A point in every direction is like, no point at all."

For those who don't know. This is from "The Point" by Nillson. Something everyone should watch & take note of. It's a poient bit of animinated Comedy with a point.

*or working farm dogs. While it is true that these animals are not given a choice,*

Pericles, that is actually not so in some cases, such as mine.
I have 3 working dogs. A mom and her 2 daughters. What I call
them working, for them is playing. They were bred that way, they
would not do it, if they never had the natural instict to love
doing what they do. No sheep dog will round up sheep, unless it
wants to. In fact most of the time they are bored, as I don't have
enough for them to do. So they are either chasing wild parrots,
rabbits or the odd wild cat, or they have actally invented a little
game with stones, quite amazing.

The three of them are also free. No chains, not even collars.
No fences to keep them in, they could leave tomorrow. Just a bean
bag each, a doggie door to come and go. Dinner at 5pm, a midnight
snack and breakfast when I get up.

They have never roamed either. I once lent one of them to a
neighbour do to some sheepwork. Within half an hour she cut for
it, back down the road, heading for home.

So they are not really slaves in any sense.

The only mistake I've made is not applying for the baby bonus,
when mum had a litter of pups :)

.

Jayb:
“I think we’ve reached the “point” of no return! Anyway...A song.
...

“Think about your troubles”…or maybe “After euthanasia what”?

...Sit beside the breakfast table. Think about your troubles

Pour yourself a cup of tea and listen to the bubbles.

You can take your tear drops and drop 'em in a tea cup.

Take 'em down to the river side, and throw 'em over the side.

To be swept up by a current, then taken to the ocean to be eaten by some fishes,

who were eaten by some fishes and swallowed by a whale,

who grew so old, he decomposed.

He died and left his body to the bottom of the ocean.

Now everybody knows that when a body decomposes

the basic elements are given back to the ocean.

And the sea does what it ought to, and soon there's salty water--

Not too good for drinking. 'Cause it tastes just like a tear drop.

And you run it through a filter, and it comes out from a faucet.

And it pours into a teacup, which is just about to bubble.

Now think about your troubles...oblio's song.

Ah! diver dan: As Melenie said, "You... You know, don't you."

I first heard "The Point" abot 30 years ago then 20 years ago I saw the video. That little story has guided my life ever since. & yes when I think about my troubles. Pfftttt! I now have the DVD & I show it to my Grand Children & we sing the songs together.

A happy pet is a pet with a friend just like Arrow.

<Abso-bloody-lutely I do.>

Very interesting, Pericles. I take it that means that you think animal trade should have no place in a future civilisation? This would drastically change Maccas and KFC, and I agree that civilisation would be better for this alone.

But doesn't that seem a bit defeatist? I see civilisation as a quest to overcome problems, not to bury them. Just as we may be able to reduce or eliminate the barbarity in producing eggs or pork, might civilisation not also be able to ensure that pets are not produced in barbarous circumstances?

And I am also interested in how you think that animals could take part in a working capacity in a future civilisation, yet not be able to be bought or sold? Surely something with an economic function has a monetary value?

festers wrote/note..""And I am also interested
in how you think that animals..could take part
in a working capacity in a future civilisation,""

indispensable
what other 'commodity'[fungable]
is not fungable[a tradeble commodity]

recall the gift of the god sheppard offering god the fat
[was pleasing to god]..better than that made from fixtures[plants;anything affixt to or part of the land

""yet not be able to be bought or sold?""

fungables are a tradable commodity

in being living things..
they must be accorded respect

*the basic respect..any life has due it
for reason...unto the one god...[good]..
sustaining all living..into life..

but with respect to minimise suffering
they are yet the higher of fungables
[with the added advantage of giving good increase

a minimum...is a new born beast
unlike grain which can return a hundred fold
regardless if fixture or fungable...all have their price

""Surely something with an economic function
..has a monetary value?""'

in the end all the money in the world
cant make a single life to be born

who values life abouve money
gets nearer the truths

[a note on slavery]
barbarick /hurtfull /injurouse slavery is just not on
but the master who honours and respects his servant
has not a slave..but an equal...
sharing his with his own..

for are we not our brothers keeper
if clearly he has failed

a slave..free in his mind
is not slave

yet the master
bound by his heart
is enslaved[bought/sold]