“Hmmmm must lead a very insulated life. That's the way their ansestors lived , so that's the way they live. Not PC, but most of those people are primitive by our standards. If you don't know that you have a choice (bound by your cast) then you haven't.”

Not PC? I don’t know if PC matters, I’m not sure how my ancestors lived is what I should be doing either. The Caste system is known to keep people in their place but I think India has moved on a bit from that now.

So these immigrants that we’ve been getting from India for many years now... what is up with them?

Me lead an insulated life... dude I live in a drain pipe in South Africa and dig holes for a potty and do all my grocery shopping at the local tip. Thank the gods my kids sponsor from New York City sent enough dosh for the family lap top. We’d never afford the poodle grooming without the CUDVA (California underprivileged dog vision agency) stepping in with the odd donation either.

Jewely: I think India has moved on a bit from that now.

Definately living under a tree. No they haven't. We only see the higher casts coming out here. A hell of a lot of people in India are still living "BC."

Yabby: If I set you and a couple of my mutts loose in the wilderness,
you would most likely starve without their help of catching food
for you.

Well there you go. Yabby one thing I have learn't in life is not to presume to assume. It's something to do with being & old bushie & a little Specialist Training in the Army. See, "The Bear" & also, what I eaten, in another post. ;-)

*& old bushie & a little Specialist Training in the Army*

Ah there ya go Jayb, without specialist training and no equipment,
by dogs could keep me in food for the rest of my life.

You'd probably have a problem, as soon as you needed a knife.

<But if we had continued to view the use of slaves for their utility>(as acceptable)<we would still keep them, would we not.>

Most slaves were kept for their utility, not for the amusement of their owners. So why then regard keeping an animal for its utility acceptable, yet keeping an animal for amusement as unacceptable?

Further on the comparison of pets to slaves, the average intelligence of a dog is equivalent to that of a toddler, whereas a slave is our equal. Dogs are bred to enjoy their human company (a type of genetically modified organism), whereas a slave has the same aspirations as other humans. The life of a free man is generally much better than the life of a slave, but the same cannot be claimed for dogs.

As for Andre Rieu, yes, there is choice involved, but if future people choose to be entertained by the likes of him yet regard pet owners as barbaric, they make the call from a very tarnished pot indeed. And nor would I see any reason to deny people the right to patronise Andre Rieu if they so choose, so why deny others the right to choose to have a pet?

<Only until we come to our senses>

Again, this raises the question as to what you think future people will find barbaric about pet ownership? Presumably, future civilisation will have all sorts of measures of what is appropriate for the care of animals. So why couldn't such a civilisation produce a pet which meets those measures and appeals to people?

<I didn't link the two.>

You did.

<Far more effective to close off demand, wouldn't you think, if puppy protection is your goal.>

As I said before, I think that people weigh the value of pets against the fact that some pets will sadly be produced in poor circumstances.

Fester: Again, this raises the question as to what you think future people will find barbaric about pet ownership? Presumably, future civilisation will have all sorts of measures of what is appropriate for the care of animals. So why couldn't such a civilisation produce a pet which meets those measures and appeals to people?

They have. It's called a camogoochie, or something like that. If you don't feed it & play with it it dies. Kids have them. & some kids shouldn't have them either.

Jay:”They have. It's called a camogoochie, or something like that. If you don't feed it & play with it it dies. Kids have them. & some kids shouldn't have them either.”

I forgot all about those being popular for awhile, I used to babysit my kids ones during the day when they were at school.

But I think humans might need something cuddlier or more lifelike. I’ve watched documentaries on those adult women dolls some very intense seeming men keep as their partners and recently one about very real human baby dolls that similar intense seeming females keep as pseudo children.

And Jay I don’t know much about India and didn’t claim to but it would be nice if you stuck a cork in these silly little insults. The Indian peoples I’ve met overseas were not of a higher class but they were working very hard to improve things for their families. Where I lived they were considered good workers to have because they kept their heads down, worked hard, and sent just about everything back home again, probably so they could get out of the family mud hut. So given a choice I think they do choose to have a different life. I’ve seen countless little photos kept in purses and wallets of their children and partners that they miss so much but struggle on trying to improve the life they, and their ancestors, were born into.