Pericles: Low paid workers in India get about 15 cents for making a garment, or about 14 cent an hour for picking cotton.

Now here's an arguement I love. You obviously forget that an Indian can live reasonably well on about $A75 a month. When I left the workforce 12 years ago I was getting $A26 an hour & doing very well, in Australia. In India at a road side stall I could get an entire months food for $A26. Another example I just love to quote is. When they have floods in India we are bombarded with call imploring us to donate, "Just imagine a flood washing your home away." We all look around at out 4/5 bedroom, 2 lounge & 2 garages & pour our hearts out for these people. BUT... they don't live in the above. They live in a little one room mud daub structure with a straw roof. That's the realith. Not our McMansions. They just collect the bits & peices washed down from somewhere else & put the house frame up again then daub the walls with the mud that the flood has left lying around & the're happy again.
It's the same with 15 cents an hour. To an Indian that is reasonably good money. Yes they do work harder than us & in very poor conditions, but that is their way. GOD I dislike bleeding hearts who live in airy fairy land. They make me bloody sick.

Fester:”And if I gave my pets freedom they would face a miserable existence, whereas a freed slave may enjoy a far more comfortable life.”

The demise of pet ownership wouldn’t be about giving our animals freedom I don’t think, it would simply be about no further breeding. I suggest we start with cats.

Fester:”Pet ownership tends to increase in populations with increasing levels of education and prosperity. In fact, it is a consequence of civilisation, not its antithesis as you claim.”

I think that indicates people have a problem so maybe when civilisation looks back and calls us primitive they will by then have some kind of artificial pet replacement to prove how educated and prosperous they are.

Fester:”As for puppy farms, I agree that they can be barbaric, but breeders mistreating animals in such operations are breaking the law. In contrast, commercial production of eggs or pork entails animal abuse which rivals the worst puppy farms, yet they are legal.”

Yes, money talks which is also barbaric.

Jay:”To an Indian that is reasonably good money. Yes they do work harder than us & in very poor conditions, but that is their way.”

It might not be their way they might lack choice?

I think we're getting closer, Fester.

>>Slavery was ended on the basis that human beings should not be bought or sold. Do you think that animals should not be bought or sold?<<

Abso-bloody-lutely I do.

With the exception, as I mentioned before, of animals who provide a rewarded service, such as guide dogs for the blind or working farm dogs. While it is true that these animals are not given a choice, at least they are not being kept for their entertainment value.

And Jewely is right, it's not about suddenly freeing all the pets to live in the wild - that would be stupid, and counter-productive. Instead, if you make the future acquisition of a domestic pet illegal, except for those with a "productive use" license, the habit will die out within a generation. Our current preoccupation with them will quickly move to the realms of "you did what, grandpa?"

>>Pet ownership tends to increase in populations with increasing levels of education and prosperity. In fact, it is a consequence of civilisation, not its antithesis as you claim.<<

The same claim may be made - as it undoubtedly was in the early nineteenth century - about human slaves.

And you could also argue that the Roman Empire's preoccupation with gladiators in mortal combat for the people's amusement was also "a consequence of civilization". Didn't make it right, though.

And for the record, jayb...

>>Pericles: Low paid workers in India get about 15 cents for making a garment, or about 14 cent an hour for picking cotton.<<

...that was Fester.

And no, I didn't understand how it connected with the discussion either.

...Yes but, the “rock man” says to oblio, “You don’t have to have a point to have a point”… Get the point? Lets point this discussion in the right direction and keep comment pointed! Or maybe..keep the pointed horse before the pointed cart and keep an eye open for the “pointer” gun dogs: A euthaniser expert, they just maybe dangerous in this pointless world where animals are euthanized and people aren’t (unless you are Mexican of course).

...Actually all this discussion has me thinking; should we euthanize white pointers? Life would be safer

Jewely: It might not be their way they might lack choice?

No. That's just the way they live, where they live. Nothing to do with choice.

Pericles: And for the record, jayb......that was Fester.

Opps! Sorry mate, & you're right. "And no, I didn't understand how it connected with the discussion either."

Pet & Humans have a mutual benifits going for them. Even now as they did in distant past. In the past they provided Man with warning of predators, helped in the hunt & kept the area clean of food scraps. Now they provide primeraly companionship & the pet gets fed & kept healthy.
Well mostly. There are people who shouldn't have pets, or children for that matter. These people are in the minority. Thank God.
Most people look after their pets to the best of their ability. Thank God.
Should pets be banned because of a few decrepid people? No, I don't think so. In my opinion, to keep the Gene Pool clean the decrepids should be euthanazed. But then again I'm not a PC Person. ;-)

Jay:”No. That's just the way they live, where they live. Nothing to do with choice.”

So no choice which kinda makes me think the way they live has everything to do with that lack of choice. If given the choice would they choose differently – I suspect they would. Bit like our pets.

Jay:”Should pets be banned because of a few decrepid people?”

It aint a few people it is all pet ownership, it’s wrong. I do it and I know it’s wrong.

Owning an animal for the sake of owning an animal is selfish and stupid and wrong. But once we have them sometimes the reality is we have to have them put down for different reasons. I’m not sure why we’d want it to be illegal.

But JLK2707 didn’t like it for the “owner refusing to pay for treatment” reason. Suzy mentioned pet bills being rather costly and I agreed and wanted to know why they are. You can’t make it illegal or vets would have a field day. Animals paying for human selfishness again.