*both you and yabby seem to call for better income for your selves and have no thought for well over half of this country those who have only their work to sell.*

Nonsense Belly. Fact is, I know how to use a calculator and at the
end of the day, the figures have to add up. If they don't, there
will be unintended consequences for all and those who you so care
about, will be those hurt most. Reality does not go away, when
you close your eyes and wish it would.

We already have a surplus of unskilled people in Australia, wanting
to work longer hours, but the hours aren't there for them to work.
That's women wanting to work a bit extra, to supplement the weekly
budget etc.

Now if we take our cup of coffee, it all comes down to turnover.
At 20$ an hour, if the business is a bit quiet, it can likely
absorb any loss. At 40$ an hour, they need to sell twice as many
cups per hour, to justify staying open. The reasons to shut the
joint have just increased dramatically.

Things might be booming where you are, so you see the world through
that limited perspective. But what about elsewhere?

The RBA tells us that consumers are not splurging anymore. In 2006/
2007, they were splurging 99% of disposable incomes on coffee and
all the rest. The GFC made people more frugal, now they are saving
around 10% of earnings. Add that up, its a huge amount not being
spent, but being used to pay down debts etc.

Rehctub's world is one of a suburban shopping centre, where rents
are high and businesses rely on good turnover numbers to make the
figures work. That is exactly the area affected by the high
savings rate.

I look at both sides of the argument, unlike yourself.

rehctub I am well aware of the IR legislation and award provisions in that industry. Often when businesses use words like downturn it just means the profits have fallen but there is still high profits being made. Just look at the uproar the mining companies make about any 'threat' to their already super profits. Win-win should also apply to consumers and taxpayers.

There are more hotels, restaurants,clubs and pubs than ever before all making a profit particularly since 'working families' has led to less cooking going on in the home.

The enterprises I worked still made profits despite all the shift penalties paid. Service has gone out the window just as education basics (reading/writing/arithmetic) and is largely due to cultural shifts rather than penalty rates. Juniors have always been common in hospitality it is not new.

Yabby! Rechtub! I ran a small business employed 5 well paid workers.
But if it had been a service industry/coffee shop I would have had these things to consider.
Costs/over heads/penalty rates [we have had them for 50 years] in NSW,I would have thought most states a service charge for weekends is in place.
Risk takers?rubbish! If I want to Gamble I go to Randwick.
Sell at a price a product they want and they will come.
if every failed business blames the wages the investor had no right to take the risk and no business skills.

Belly old son, much as I like you, I need to remind you that
I seem to recall that you went broke running a business.
So you are not exactly the best person to to give good advice
on the matter.

No defense yabby and it was without taking a cent from any one, working very hard for two years to clear the debt every cent.
And at the hands of two of the biggest in this country, one folded owing me $40.000.
The other paid after legal action two years after.
I think, now as much as I do honestly like you, I have more ideas than you give me credit for about the matter.
You say you looked after your workers, Rechtub tells us that too.
But just maybe you ignore in the the end much of trade has to come from wage earners pay packets.
Drop wages drops prices and profits
MEAT has become a Luxury that may well be Rechtub problem.
You appear not to understand penalty rates are not new .
I know how to battle, first day rebuilding my life saw me walk 12 klm to work with no lunch work all day in borrowed boots then walk home.
In two years I was the crew leader out of debt and could improve my eating, it had been very poor but I never left a bill unpaid.
And yabby,I still feel better in the company of a battling worker than some one who wants to reduce wages.

Belly, I don't care about reducing wages, it's just that wages are the main cause of many a small cafe, restaurant failing to make a decent living. I invite you to join my new thread, I would be very keen to see how many agree with my proposal Re: surcharges.

Just to put things into prospective, my first shop (1990) would usually make about a third profit. 2/3ds to expenses, 1/3 to the owner (if they worked). Nothing wrong with that hey!

Nowadays, many businesses in my industry are lucky to make 10%. And that's a fact.

Hospitality is even worse. In fact, the average profit margin is less than 4%. Fact! Not much margin for a rainy day.

Now here is the real problem.

Wages are becoming to high for businesses to cope, yet to low to live on. Where do you recon this is heading.