For many years now wealthy backpackers from OS have frequented Australians tourist regions.

In past times they would spend their 12 months traveling and experiencing the wonders of our great land, however, that has all changed.

They sill come here in their droves, however, they generally only spend about two or three months, top up their bank accounts, then go off to the likes of Asia or Indonesia to spend their fortunes.

BTW, they also get paid super!

You see, they are simply 'gobsmacked' by the fact that they can earn up to $40 per hour simply because it's a Sunday.

WE are still the lucky country, it's just not the lucky country for us.

Are we as a nation just going to sit back and watch ourselves self distruct, or what!

Tourisim, retail and hospitallity must be exempt from these rediculious IR laws before we loose these employers.

With specific reference to Sunday trading, I have thought for some time now that we need to rethink the special status afforded to Sundays. We are no longer a churchgoing Christian society, and I think the majority of people have no moral issues with working on that day. I, for one, would love to work on Sunday and give up another day so I could access banks, real estate agents, dentists, post offices and other services during their opening hours, rather than trying to sneak through the door just before closing time (if I get away from work that early).

Perhaps rather than mandating that Sunday is an overtime day, employees in industries that trade seven days a week could nominate their two 'sacred days' on which they will not be called in. They work Sundays at a normal rate, but are guaranteed Friday and Saturday (or Tuesday and Wednesday, or whatever) off. Allow them to nominate for year-long terms, and require that the days are negotiated with the employer on the condition that two consecutive days are provided.

It's not Sundays we need off - it's two days to rest, regroup, get away with family and friends and gear up for the week ahead. By ensuring that those two days are provided, rather than compensating the employee for the 'inconvenience' of working on Sunday, we would quite possibly find ourselves with happier, healthier workers.

Just a thought.

Amazing stuff Rechtub, saw you refer to your fan club having a go at you in another thread, not fair dinkum are you?
The replies to your threads are based on what you say not who you are.
Wealthy back packers?
Hmm ours too? Aussies with about 4 grand in the pack working their way around the world? dangerous stuff that.
And beggar the fruit growers who need them to work,burn those youth hostels built to keep them safe on the way around this country.
We gain a great deal from back packers they spend here do jobs others do not want, tell of us at home.
Some settle here, beggars!
AND THEY GET SUPER!
Gee how dare they!
Now nation wide ANYONE earning over a set amount gets SUPERANNUATION!
Is that evil mate?
One more thread like this and me and the dogs are becoming vegetarians bloke!

Top up their bank accounts?

It's called a working visa, buddy.

They get taxed - some ridiculous amount - on their income and have to buy accommodation, food, entertainment, etc etc...

I'm over butchers. How about cleaning your industry's own act up before whinging about everyone else?

"It's not Sundays we need off - it's two days to rest, regroup, get away with family and friends and gear up for the week ahead." The problem is that if you dont have everyone's day off the same, then getting away with friends and family gets quite hard to organise. Its not that I dont see your point (I'm the same, happy to work different days), but it does throw up other problems. Just think, mum and dad could both work 4 days a week and kids would only have to spend 1 day a week in childcare (although mum and dad would rarely have time off together except holidays). Still a pretty good solution to childcare shortages/costs/dislikes.

Most workplaces don't trade or open seven days a week. School is from Mon-Fri so if an employee has to work when most people are not working and spending time with family, I think a penalty rate should appy.

The cost of penalties are included in the price of products. I can't see employers reducing prices if they made a saving on penalty rates, not when most people are used to paying a particular price for a product.

I reckon some shift workers do earn their penalties like night shift which has a huge impact on health and family life. In fact night shift would be far more of an inconvenience than working on a Saturday or Sunday.

rehctub
I would have to agree about superannuation being paid for backpackers and short term visitors. There is no legitimate argument in terms of the drive for self-funded retirment if you are not an Australian citizen.

There could be a good case to be argued to get rid of compulsory super for those on temporary working visas who are for the most part on 'holiday' and earning a bit of play money to continue travelling.

I can't see it affecting permanent citizens in terms of jobs because the percentage of jobs done by backpackers is small and it could be managed by flexibility (as required) around the number of temporary working visas approved each year. Backpacker often perform work in those fields where it is difficult to find staff such as fruit picking.

Super is paid by the employers not the government.
It is a right and removing it would under cut local workers.
It need not be taken home, some 457 and others come back a few times.
Super can be left to mature but surely we do not want to make it cheaper not to employ locals.
If Rechtub worked for a boss, in low paid unskilled work, he may well not consider a low paid forever under class an option.

Yep!, Thought I might hit a nerve to two.

Just a few points.

STG>>They get taxed - some ridiculous amount - on their income

Anyone who works for less than six months gets their tax back. Over to you!

Pelican>>The cost of penalties are included in the price of products.

Now that's where you're wrong. You don't get charged extra for a coffee on Sundays, or, a loaf of bread is no dearer.

Doon>>The problem is that if you don't have every one's day off the same, then getting away with friends and family gets quite hard to organise

My point exactly. Most people only care about themselves and give little regard to the needs of their workplaces.

The end result will be fewer workplaces. Trust me, those days are coming.

One of the 'no brain er' laws recently introduced by labor was to ban surcharges in restaurants.

In days past a restaurant would charge 15% or so on Sundays or public holidays. That's now illegal. Instead, they are expected to have two menu's. Now that's just crazy.

The old system worked fine, so why change it!

That industry is very close to failing. Watch this space!

You people just don't see the big picture. It's not your fault, you live in a world that has been provided to you by someone else taking risks.

Well, I hate to rain on your parade, but those risk takers are having a re-think.

Why do you think the BP come here to work. It's because their countries have slashed wages to survive.

I have to agree that many industries should not have penalty rates. If you chose to go into a 7 day, or 24 hour industry, you know in advance that weekend or night work will apply.

Industries such as tourism & hospitality, public transport, hospitals, road work, farming & many others are 24/7 jobs, & provided they offer fixed shifts should only pay a simple constant hourly rate.

Penalties should apply however to those with rolling shifts, days or hours, as this does make life difficult for those involved.

I never could understand how we allowed ourselves to fall into extended hours, & weekend shopping.

No one makes a profit from this, & staff lives are disrupted for what? Nothing more than the big 2 trying to force out the little guy, & make life harder for the medium guy, who has trouble funding unprofitable trading.

I wonder how much more I pay now, for a box of corn flakes, than I would have payed without extended hour shopping?

rehctub
"Now that's where you're wrong. You don't get charged extra for a coffee on Sundays, or, a loaf of bread is no dearer"

Yes it is. The cost of doing business is built into the price and that means all costs, including penalty rates. The cost of penalty rates is spread during the week.

The only exception is where, for example, restaurants might include a surcharge for public holidays

Good news and bad Rechtub and hasbeen, first the good.
If they work only six months they get the tax back,at best wrong but more likely just a silly guess.
If and only if,your income is under a certain amount you need not put in a return.
In most states we pay a loading for weekend and holiday service,us the customers.
Now the bad federal law far from the only reason we pay penalty rates.
ANY employer trying to pay flat rate wages in roads would have a workforce of zero.
risk taker? having your self on again, put your shops on the market and you will sell them plenty want to fill your shoes.
I can however help, look at the traps councils set to trap pesky Indian minor birds, Rechtub using the right bait you may be able to get some back packers that way, pesky things adding color and interest in a place like Queensland how dare they?

*Yes it is. The cost of doing business is built into the price and that means all costs, including penalty rates. The cost of penalty rates is spread during the week.*

Ah Pelican, no wonder you joined the public service :)

If only running a business were that simple. You forget that
many businesses are price takers, they can't just increase prices
at will, to add extra costs.

Now take veggie growers, who are pushed by markets to have produce
at the market, bright and early Monday morning. Under our new
cushy labour laws, they will face huge weekend penalty rates.

So either the family will have to do it, or the figures simply
won't add up anymore. Many of these guys have one thing going for
them, as they have continued to grow their produce, city boundaries
have spread towards them, so their real estate value has gone up.

So alot of them will simply say stuff it, we'll forget growing
produce, let somebody else run at a loss, we'll flog the real estate
and retire.

You Pelican, will then be bleating on OLO, about Australia importing
produce from overseas, because growers won't grow it locally.

Well duh, the people making up these rules, have never or hardly
run a business between them. They simply haven't thought through
the ramifications of their well meant actions.

The law of unintended consequences shines brightly, but they will
learn the hard way.

Yabby
You are the one bleating. Agriculture is a different sort of business.

I can tell you from my own research when running a business in the late 90s, and currently in the process of doing some small business courses that a cup of take-away coffee (given rehctub mentioned coffee) generally has a 200-400% profit margin.

Yabby you can carp on all you like but does not the scenario you outlined above in relation to agricultural businesses set some alarm bells ringing about the whole system?

And I will continue to 'bleat' on about imports because it is imports and competition with Third World conditions that make life difficult for farmers. Your worldview is in fact the cause of the problem and is why our economy is now so price focussed and quality and service has gone the way of the dinosaurs. Farmers were doing a lot better when I was a kid and were not being ripped off by their own governments.

But Yabby, I accept that you will never change your POV. If you had run a business other than agriculture you might have a different perspective on retail. Not all businesses fit into your narrow experience.

Err Pelican, just to clear up a slight misunderstanding. Farming
is my hobby and passion, certainly not how I made money. My claim
to fame is running a globally competitive, award winning seafood export business,
exporting Australian quality around the world, up against players
from everywhere, including China. I focussed on high class customers
and their needs, from Hong Kong to the skislopes of Davos.

Being a global player, certainly teaches you a few things, I can
assure you.

8 years ago I sold that business, interestingly the bloke who bought
it, shut it down some months ago, rising costs being one of the reasons.

The quality/price thinggy had to stack up, or customers went elsewhere.
We could not just pass on rising local costs. We had
to think up ways of doing things better, faster, cheaper, to
survive. Every movement a staff member made, was evaluated to
see how something could be done more efficiently and not compromise
our quality. This was cut throat stuff, not selling cups of coffee.

We in Australia live in dreamland. We featherbed workers with the
cushiest labour laws on the planet, then wonder why businesses go
offshore or close.

Most farmers in Australia produce for the export market, not for
the local one. Beef, lamb, wool, wheat, oats, barley, cotton,
and a few others, being the main exports. Two thirds of what
we grow is exported at international prices. Forcing farmers to
pay high prices for their inputs, from machinery to chemicals,
to featherbed local industry, is what has driven so many farmers
broke in the first place.

Pelican I think you would be well advised to try a different course provider, or pay more attention.

If they have told you that the profit margin on a cup of coffee is 200% to 400% they are not much use. Profit margin depends on the difference between income, and the cost of earning that income.

A cup of coffee may have a markup of up to 400%, but that doesn't have much to do with profit. Labour costs may exceed the cost of materials, particularly if you have not spent enough on your decor to attract sufficient trade to fully utilise your labour.

I used to run tourists boats that could earn over $20,000 a day, with up to $12000 of that gross profit. However they cost $2200 a day sitting against the wharf, $3000 if I put a crew on them, up to $200,000 a week when in dry dock for maintenance. It did not take too much unserviceability do push them into loss, & a pilot strike drove dozens of such operations into bankruptcy.

As most backpackers wanted to do an outer reef trip, you could say they acted as a conduit to transfer tomato growers gross earnings to our gross earnings.

I knew quite a few of those tomato growers. They reckoned that for about half the year they lost a little on their crop. For about 4 months they made a little. Then, usually due to the misfortune of some where else, where the crops failed, they did quite well for a month or two.

Their only problem was they had to have a crop producing every day, all year, to be able to cash in when the good times came. I think they are mad masochists to work that hard, with no certainty of a profit at the end.

Hasbeen don't take my word for it go and speak to those in the hospitality industry. Do some research, ask around - coffee is a big money spinner.

Yabby
You are apt to play the person and not the ball making assumptions about people you don't know based on a few personal tid bits revealed on this forum. I am not about to post my resume online.

If your beliefs and views are that strong they should be able to stand on their own merit without resorting to taking cheap shots at someone just because they happened to spend some time in the public service. The knowledge gained in both the private and public sector have been invaluable and any experience one gains in their lifetime should be welcomed not diminished by someone who wouldn't know the first thing about the various government agencies but will be the first one to call the police if they need help or seek a farming subsidy if one is going begging.

pelican,
A coffee in the 90's averaged $2.65 No GST. Today, that same cup averages $4.00 less GST $3.55. That's in 10 plus years. It should cost $7.00 today if prices kept up with costs.

Belly, tax is calculated on an annual salary. If one works for three months at $50K per year salary, then zero income, they get most, if not all their tax back. It is a wrought used by many in this country. They work for 6 to 8 months, have the rest of the year off and get a huge tax refund.

BTW. Why can't those on the dole hold the stop go signs? After all, we are apparently screaming for good workers.

BTW, if you have some buyers please send them my way. After all, I can earn $40 per hour cleaning toilets on sundays.

Yabby, you are spot on. These people just don't get the big picture. It's not their fault, most of them are labor supporters and, like labor, they are re-active, not pro-active. You know, the old 'we will assess what went wrong once it's broken' attitude, or at least we will hold an enquiry into why it went wrong so we can create a few worthless jobs.

It's happening as we speak.

pelican, you say coffee is a big spinner. It would be if it sold for the $7 it should.

What you don't get is that a coffee maker on say $25 and our is capable of making say 120 cups an hour. Gross return $426. Wage cost 6%.

Now in slow times they may only make four cups an hour, gross return $14.24, wage cost minus 176%. There in lies the problem.

You see employers only get paid from profits. Employees get paid to be there.

Trouble is, if they have two or three very busy hours in a row, they expect a bonus. Go figure.

So pelican may I suggest you don't take a knife to a gun fight as you are dealing with industry experts, not side line commentators like yourself.

Continued

Continued by rehctub

Hasbeen. Well said.
The fact of the matter is that unless there are some serious changes to IR laws, many businesses will fail. Hospitality first, retail, tourism and farming coming a close combined second.

It's a sad world when ones tomatoes are not allowed to ripen on a sunday. Or at least, can't afford to be picked.

People, can you not see what is behind the push for imported foods. These chain stores are simply establishing their OS markets in readiness for the day our farmers can no longer afford to farm.

Farmers 20 years ago sold their inherited farms because it seemed like the easy option.

Today, it may well be their only option, yet we just sit back and watch it happen just so we can protect workers rights.

Good luck to you all when the risk takers stop taking risks.

Won't happen you say cause there is always someone linning up to take our place. Boy you are so miss guided.

In the 90's most small business in these feilds made about 20% profit. Nowdays, that's more like 2 to 5%.

The end is coming guys.

Take your blinkers off before it is to late. Or maybe that day has already come.

Rechtub! after a GOOD union official has been schooled in shouting and screaming at bosses, swearing loudly at them, he/she has to have and UNDERSTANDING of the tax laws.
Super and much more.
Fact is you put my statement in to the sausage maker ,pulled it out and presented it back to me as your idea.
INCOME IS ANNUAL if I worked 3 months and the annual wage was 50.000, I would have to put in a tax return.
Now forget the wish expressed here that we import slaves to do our work and pay them just enough bread and water to live, its been done.
Northern Territory fruit growers long ago started dialog with a trade union! to bring fruit pickers in to this country.
A novel thought, aimed at picking and selling the fruit as an alternative to it rotting on the ground.
yabby nice to hear your work rewarded you.
Question bloke,If I worked for you, worked my guts out as I proudly did in any job, owned nothing at the start.
would my work earn me as much as yours did you?
Ir reward for effort only for some?

rehctub
You guys are speaking nonsense - what a lot of arrogant testosteronial bluster. Better stick to flogging meat and seafood.

Why is your experience, which is not in hospitality, any more valid than a person who has spent some years in the hospitality industry in established businesses and new ventures?

If your arguments had any weight you would not have to use distraction as a method of debate.

The IR laws here are not the problem in the big picture.

Do your research before you go flinging around figures out of your head in relation to coffee and then get back to me. Speak to the owners of cafes and they will all tell you their money comes from cofee sales especially since the uptake of coffee has increased markedley over the last few years, far outselling the once favourite tea.

A cup of take-away coffee in Canberra is about $3.50 (cheapest) to $4.00 or more (add more if you want a fancy version).

*would my work earn me as much as yours did you?
Ir reward for effort only for some?*

Belly, I did in fact offer my business to my staff.
They were not interested, too much risk, too much stress!

Would you have been ready to lose your house on the business,
if shipments went wrong?

Pelican, yes we know you are sensitive about the public service
history thinggy, I did put a smiley in there, but never mind.

The problem really was your naive answer, which is why I wrote
it in the first place. Once again, in many industries all those
extra IR costs are not built into the price, because many businesses
are not price makers, but price takers.

But you are not the first ex public servant who is naive about
how businesses are run. Its a common Canberra foible.

Belly, your last post says it all really.

"If I worked for you, worked my guts out as I proudly did in any job, owned nothing at the start would my work earn me as much as yours did you?

From this I can only gather you believe everyone in a company should be payed the same amount for their time.

How about we put it this way.

You work for me, but we don't have enough work to be busy for a month, & loose a few thousand. I can not take any pay for the month, & have to put in most of my pay for the preceding month to pay the rent, & overheads.

Should you go without pay this month too, & how much of your pay from the preceding month should you put in to help pay those bills?

How much should you put in to pay for the new machinery, & can we mortgage your house too, to secure the loan?

When I had an exchange reconditioned auto components factory, & workshop years ago, I was silly enough to get to where I employed 26 people. There was nothing wrong with any of them, they were good people, but due to the nature of the business I made no profit, & usually a loss, for some of the year.

When I shut the doors on Christmas eve I had to have enough to support myself for 4 & 1/2 months, & a few thousand in kitty to help pay the business costs for the same period. The business was not self funding for that period.

School holidays meant quite a few staff wanted their holidays then. The pile of public holidays between then & Anzac day meant many months were also unprofitable.

At the same time, many prospective customers had overspent over Christmas, & put off even necessary repairs to vehicles, until they had repaired their bank balances.

With business down, should I have put off some people, put everyone on a 4 day week, or simply paid them less, Belly?

Continued.

Continued.

How many nights should the staff have worked back, [free of course] to do the books, pay the suppliers, or make up the pays, in those days when we still paid people in real folding money each week?

I only had one staff member leave me from that business. He was the nice, honest helpful old mechanic, who I put in charge when I was away. I put him on 10% of the profits, as a bonus, but when he discovered how little that actually was, he thought I was lying to him, & left.

That business became more profitable when I had reduced it to employing 18 staff, but even at that the net was not much greater than it had been back when it was only 6.

I don't know what that bloke from the big company thought the noise was. That's the one who rang wanting to know if I would sell the place. I was so excited that the adrenaline made me too strong. The 4Lb hammer in my hand, that I threw onto the bench, bounced out through a window.

That's when I climbed onto a yacht, & spent 6 years sailing, & working around the pacific islands. It took that long to get over working that hard. Funny isn't it, my bank account grew more each year out there, odd jobbing, than it had as a business man.

So no Belly, you will not get the same money the owner gets, because you haven't earned it.

Not really that sensitive about the public service Yabby, only about people who make generalisations about things they know little about. Sorry if I did not see the smiley but my beef ('scuse the pun) was more with the assumptions being made about people and/or their experiences and of whom you have never met. :)

Yes was a bit harsh on you yabby, I can however talk you.
Try from my true belief in fair go mate talking to Rechtub or shudder hasbeen.
Look I have had a very long work life 13 to 66 nearly and a lot of jobs.
Some times for blokes just like you.
Some times things got a bit hard and I willingly got paid 8 hours for ten hour days.
Never went home without being warn out.
And never wanted to live like the boss, a timber shanty would have done.
hasbeen puts the boot in ugly stuff, but I never ever left any job without being asked to stay.
Should have stayed in some earlier ones, but wanting to learn and see this country drove me.
Mate a good boss is hard to beat so is a good worker, do not judge country town Australia on miners wages.
This near coastal country village sees pay packets a quarter of that.
And the bustling coastal town charges 5 to 8 dollars for coffee on weekends or any time tourists are about.
I have a feeling Rechtub is not as bad as his words, but the description fits butcher, you seem to have no idea about life as it is,vegetarian sausages any one?

Pelican, you should know by now that I think highly of you. I've
said before that I think you would make great marriage material
if single and most likely be honest, trustworthy and reliable, unlike the bunch of dumb bimbos that I have associated with :)

But this:

*The IR laws here are not the problem in the big picture.*

I remind you that 4 out of 5 small businesses shut down in the
first five years, for its alot tougher out there then many a dreamer
might think. The IR laws have swung the pendulum even further in
the direction of the employee and stuff the businesses struggling to
survive.

People commonly have trouble relating to another's perspective and
you have clearly never been in a position where you've got your house
on the line for your business, along comes a black swan, things
change, next thing you lose it due to the termination payments that
you are forced to pay, when it closes and employees have their
hands out. They of course, can start another job tomorrow, not
a care in the world.

Right now we have more nails being nailed into the coffin and
when things get rough and businesses close, they will just be
enough to make sure it stays shut. Then there will be shouting
from the rooftops wondering where the jobs are.

Pelican>>Why is your experience, which is not in hospitality, any more valid than a person who has spent some years in the hospitality industry in established businesses and new ventures?

I am assuming you are refering to yourself here.

Either that was a long time ago, or, you simply don't get it. IR laws have all but killed this industry. Now if you were experienced, you would know that.

Been to the local cafe on a sunday lately. All but Gone are th senir staff, replaced by juniors who have little knowledge and little regard for customer service. Well done Julia!

There is an interesting article in the fin review (weekend addition) about just how tough the hospitality game is. A good read that should change your point of view. Unless of cause you just wish to argue for the sake of it!

Belly>>Question bloke,If I worked for you, worked my guts out as I proudly did in any job, owned nothing at the start.
would my work earn me as much as yours did you?
Ir reward for effort only for some?

This about sums you up mate. Share in the rewards, but without the risk. What more can I say, you have already said it!

Rechtub can I ask this? why do you come here?
It is apparent you only read some of the comments.
To understand, to get the true direction of any thread,you should read then contribute.
You do not.
Silly in the extreme to say that industry is failing, here coffee and a quick snack shops are booming.
A whole area has come to life around coffee.
Sorry but you want a world I would die fighting against, both you and yabby seem to call for better income for your selves and have no thought for well over half of this country those who have only their work to sell.
I waste my time , you have no idea how bad lower wages would be for your business and our country your self interest is blindness.

Belly, I am afraid old mate that it is you who has no idea.

Coffee shops, cafes, bars and restaurants are popping up everywhere, but, all this is being driven by the likes of 'master chef' and shows like that.

The reality is that while they are all booming in your mind, the owners are actually working for less than the workers in most cases.

The whole industry is being fueled by the 'buzz' of owning your own cafe.

I am starting the thread about 'surcharges'. In invite you, along with your labor friends to come along. It will be very interesting to see your points of view on this one.

In the mean time, this industry has a submission to fair work Aust about IR laws and, if nothing or little changes you may well see many closures. Watch this space.

*both you and yabby seem to call for better income for your selves and have no thought for well over half of this country those who have only their work to sell.*

Nonsense Belly. Fact is, I know how to use a calculator and at the
end of the day, the figures have to add up. If they don't, there
will be unintended consequences for all and those who you so care
about, will be those hurt most. Reality does not go away, when
you close your eyes and wish it would.

We already have a surplus of unskilled people in Australia, wanting
to work longer hours, but the hours aren't there for them to work.
That's women wanting to work a bit extra, to supplement the weekly
budget etc.

Now if we take our cup of coffee, it all comes down to turnover.
At 20$ an hour, if the business is a bit quiet, it can likely
absorb any loss. At 40$ an hour, they need to sell twice as many
cups per hour, to justify staying open. The reasons to shut the
joint have just increased dramatically.

Things might be booming where you are, so you see the world through
that limited perspective. But what about elsewhere?

The RBA tells us that consumers are not splurging anymore. In 2006/
2007, they were splurging 99% of disposable incomes on coffee and
all the rest. The GFC made people more frugal, now they are saving
around 10% of earnings. Add that up, its a huge amount not being
spent, but being used to pay down debts etc.

Rehctub's world is one of a suburban shopping centre, where rents
are high and businesses rely on good turnover numbers to make the
figures work. That is exactly the area affected by the high
savings rate.

I look at both sides of the argument, unlike yourself.

rehctub I am well aware of the IR legislation and award provisions in that industry. Often when businesses use words like downturn it just means the profits have fallen but there is still high profits being made. Just look at the uproar the mining companies make about any 'threat' to their already super profits. Win-win should also apply to consumers and taxpayers.

There are more hotels, restaurants,clubs and pubs than ever before all making a profit particularly since 'working families' has led to less cooking going on in the home.

The enterprises I worked still made profits despite all the shift penalties paid. Service has gone out the window just as education basics (reading/writing/arithmetic) and is largely due to cultural shifts rather than penalty rates. Juniors have always been common in hospitality it is not new.

Yabby! Rechtub! I ran a small business employed 5 well paid workers.
But if it had been a service industry/coffee shop I would have had these things to consider.
Costs/over heads/penalty rates [we have had them for 50 years] in NSW,I would have thought most states a service charge for weekends is in place.
Risk takers?rubbish! If I want to Gamble I go to Randwick.
Sell at a price a product they want and they will come.
if every failed business blames the wages the investor had no right to take the risk and no business skills.

Belly old son, much as I like you, I need to remind you that
I seem to recall that you went broke running a business.
So you are not exactly the best person to to give good advice
on the matter.

No defense yabby and it was without taking a cent from any one, working very hard for two years to clear the debt every cent.
And at the hands of two of the biggest in this country, one folded owing me $40.000.
The other paid after legal action two years after.
I think, now as much as I do honestly like you, I have more ideas than you give me credit for about the matter.
You say you looked after your workers, Rechtub tells us that too.
But just maybe you ignore in the the end much of trade has to come from wage earners pay packets.
Drop wages drops prices and profits
MEAT has become a Luxury that may well be Rechtub problem.
You appear not to understand penalty rates are not new .
I know how to battle, first day rebuilding my life saw me walk 12 klm to work with no lunch work all day in borrowed boots then walk home.
In two years I was the crew leader out of debt and could improve my eating, it had been very poor but I never left a bill unpaid.
And yabby,I still feel better in the company of a battling worker than some one who wants to reduce wages.

Belly, I don't care about reducing wages, it's just that wages are the main cause of many a small cafe, restaurant failing to make a decent living. I invite you to join my new thread, I would be very keen to see how many agree with my proposal Re: surcharges.

Just to put things into prospective, my first shop (1990) would usually make about a third profit. 2/3ds to expenses, 1/3 to the owner (if they worked). Nothing wrong with that hey!

Nowadays, many businesses in my industry are lucky to make 10%. And that's a fact.

Hospitality is even worse. In fact, the average profit margin is less than 4%. Fact! Not much margin for a rainy day.

Now here is the real problem.

Wages are becoming to high for businesses to cope, yet to low to live on. Where do you recon this is heading.

Rehctub, you and Belly have the same problem, you are both getting
old, dreaming about how things used to be :)

You both need to live with it, the world is changing.

Years ago you had a slackarsed Coles management, Woolies needed to
do little to be better. Wesfarmers have hired some of Europes
top retailers. A million extra customers a week are going through
their doors. They will do business for a 3% net margin.

So small retailers are going to have to innovate to compete, or
go out of business. People now shop on the internet, home delivery,
new products, ready to cook, all new trends. At some point the
Westfields of this world will have to reduce rents, or face more and
more empty stores in their centres.

For Sunday trading, the market is already finding a solution. Cash
payments off the books, at a rate which both employer and employee can
handle. The Govt will be the loser, less tax collected.

Belly, nobody is questioning your integrity, its your ability to
understand business that is the problem. The figures have to stack up, or they shut the doors. Things are not as rosy as you might
think, or 4 out of 5 would not go out of business.

Making a potential 40 or 50 dollars an hour on a Sunday, is not much
good to a worker who can't find work.

Nobody cares what used to be, that is fantasyland. Its the here and
now that matters. But perhaps you are just too old, tribal and set
in your ways to understand that.

Yabby I know what you are saying and I disagree.
Rechtub I have joined your thread,you took that foot out of your mouth and layed it in to me,my rib cadge is wet wipe it next time.
In 1990 your third would have come, now be honest Rechtub, a much smaller pool.
Your ten percent comes from a very much bigger income, not bad for some one who fails to understand.
And my risk taking mate,I would think it a fair return in todays market.
Doing it hard? sell the place bloke put it in super and forget the pesky workers/customers,tax man.
A great number willing to take the challenge to be as well off as your shops have made you and are waiting.
I rather think in any butcher shop an enterprising management can increase turn over.
And ten percent of more is more [maybe I got that wrong I know nothing of business]
If a surcharge is truely nott legal in QLD change weekend prices but remember it is a competitive world.
gross income may rise[and profits] by cutting them on weekends.

Can someone tell me why I am paying 10 Australian dollars for four medium sized bananas and no choice to buy any other cheaper kind?

Who is it I am supporting?

You are supporting cyclone damage in QLD.
It is likely your bananas are grown in NSW so the price is not justified.
ANY market days around your area $5 a kg at most.
Noticed about 200gk going rotten today at one of the big 0nes will be thrown out tonight rather than cut the price.

Jewely, if you are paying 2.50 per banana, then your husband earns
far too much money :)

But whats in season, its cheaper.

Jewely, if you are paying 2.50 per banana, then your husband earns
far too much money :)

Buy whats in season, its cheaper.

Gawd Yabby, heard ya the first time.

Are you talking to me again Belly babe? Yay! That took ages but I am glad and now I can say I hope you feeling okay and health matters are improving.

The bananas were purchased at local supermarket. And yeah funny how crappy fruit and veges are these days, go off super quick. In other countries you have the freedom to buy what you want all year round and at very good prices. Why don’t we do that here?

Closest market is a bit of a hike so I think the petrol and hassle might not be worth it in the end.

Jewlely all the better for saying Gday to you.
It a complex issue, few know bananas in parts of the world are owned by near Mafia groups, story there.
And that they want to bring them here cheap.
But they carry disease that may kill ours.
We only have one type not grown from sead but cutting.
So trade protection is shakey but in place.
Two big cyclones close together killed crops.
And NSW growers are getting cash because of it.
I do buy mine at market days at the price I said but yep not the best quality at present.
Trying to eat better and they go in green smoothys, not sure what part tastes worse.

I dunno if Oz doesn’t import because of Mafia, is it like blood diamonds and stuff? Disease - but they can spray?

I remember the same thing happened 5 years ago and banana prices were through the roof.

Is the trade protection only to protect the Aussie plantation owners… I don’t understand because this seems to be a country where profit is king and you’d think some importers (especially at these times) would be all over getting decently priced naanaas to market. Do our banana people export at these times?

But anyways I will go hunting for prices the next few allowed shopping days. Isn’t someone in charge of stopping the big supermarkets from ripping everyone off?

Overseas the one Aussie product I would seek out was 'pawpaw ointment'.

I’ve never had a green smoothy, they good? What makes them green? Damn Easter, I think I'm on a two year old sugar high.